Tom Iron
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Strasburg was scratched from his start tonight. No one knows why as yet.
Tom Iron...
Tom Iron...
Stephen Strasburg - Young Phenom
- Thread starter j41181
- Start date
Sore shoulder. I don't think it's a big deal.
"The Washington Nationals placed their superstar phenom wunderkind righty on the 15-day DL, retroactive to July 22, because of shoulder stiffness. Strasburg reported discomfort before being scratched from a scheduled start Tuesday."
I liked Jim Bunning's take on it though.
"Five-hundred twenty starts, I never refused the ball," Bunning, a Kentucky senator who hurled a perfect game in 1964 and struck out 2,855 batters in his Major League career, told POLITICO. "What a joke!"
First refusing to extend unemployment benefits until they could be paid for, and now this. Bunning is one of my favorite politician's. Figures he's retiring, why else would he suddenly get some cajones.
"The Washington Nationals placed their superstar phenom wunderkind righty on the 15-day DL, retroactive to July 22, because of shoulder stiffness. Strasburg reported discomfort before being scratched from a scheduled start Tuesday."
I liked Jim Bunning's take on it though.
"Five-hundred twenty starts, I never refused the ball," Bunning, a Kentucky senator who hurled a perfect game in 1964 and struck out 2,855 batters in his Major League career, told POLITICO. "What a joke!"
First refusing to extend unemployment benefits until they could be paid for, and now this. Bunning is one of my favorite politician's. Figures he's retiring, why else would he suddenly get some cajones.
Strasburg out for all of this year and maybe next season too.
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<H1>Strasburg injury is bad for the Nationals and sad for all of us</H1>
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There is something terribly sad about this latest Stephen Strasburg news. It's not just sadness for Strasburg, who apparently needs Tommy John surgery -- he is a wealthy and (mostly) healthy young American male who should be fine, no matter what happens. And it's not just sadness for the Washington Nationals, who lost the one guy who has made them relevant.
No, it's the sadness of an artist who is no longer able to paint, or a musician who suddenly can't play a chord. What is lost is not just a game or a part of a career, but something on the outer edges of human achievement.
Strasburg was not just on his way to becoming a dominant pitcher. He was doing things with a baseball that some Hall of Famers could not do.full article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/27/strasburg.injury/index.html?eref=sihp
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<H1>Strasburg injury is bad for the Nationals and sad for all of us</H1>
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There is something terribly sad about this latest Stephen Strasburg news. It's not just sadness for Strasburg, who apparently needs Tommy John surgery -- he is a wealthy and (mostly) healthy young American male who should be fine, no matter what happens. And it's not just sadness for the Washington Nationals, who lost the one guy who has made them relevant.
No, it's the sadness of an artist who is no longer able to paint, or a musician who suddenly can't play a chord. What is lost is not just a game or a part of a career, but something on the outer edges of human achievement.
Strasburg was not just on his way to becoming a dominant pitcher. He was doing things with a baseball that some Hall of Famers could not do.full article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/27/strasburg.injury/index.html?eref=sihp
Highlander
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Bummer. At least he's still very young and should heal well. He has time on his side. In two years he'll still be only 23 years old. Even if he loses a few MPH on his fastball, he should still have the potential of being one of the best pitchers out there. What a shame, though.Don Wassall said:Strasburg out for all of this year and maybe next season too.
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<h1>Strasburg injury is bad for the Nationals and sad for all of us</h1>
<div style="border: medium none; text-align: left; color: rgb0, 0, 0; text-decoration: none;">
There is something terribly sad about this latest Stephen Strasburg news. It's not just sadness for Strasburg, who apparently needs Tommy John surgery -- he is a wealthy and (mostly) healthy young American male who should be fine, no matter what happens. And it's not just sadness for the Washington Nationals, who lost the one guy who has made them relevant.
No, it's the sadness of an artist who is no longer able to paint, or a musician who suddenly can't play a chord. What is lost is not just a game or a part of a career, but something on the outer edges of human achievement.
Strasburg was not just on his way to becoming a dominant pitcher. He was doing things with a baseball that some Hall of Famers could not do.full article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/08/27/strasburg.injury/index.html?eref=sihp
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GWTJ
Mentor
I heard yesterday that 9 of the pitchers at this year's All-Star game have had Tommy John surgery. He should come back as strong or stronger than before.
JReb1
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Pitchers usually come back just as strong if not stronger after TJ surgery. This injury will make SS become a better pitcher because he'll learn to actually pitch to protect his arm instead of trying to blow it by everybody. Putting everything you've got into a fastball to reach over 100 MPH is risky if it's done to often. Every pitcher that throws over 100 MPH seems to always injure their arms. It's better to hold a little back and perfect your locations and speeds to trick hitters or make them swing at close balls and bad pitches. Gred Maddux was an All-Time great pitcher and he barely hit 90 MPH on the radar gun.
PhillyBirds
Mentor
Yeah, the success rate for Tommy John nowadays is upwards of 75%. I'm sure Strasburg will be back, but he's going to need to fix his mechanics if he wants to minimize the chance of another injury. Not saying that his pitching mechanics are entirely to blame, but his violent motion sure didn't help.
In terms of throwing harder, it does happen sometimes after TJ surgery. Phillies reliever Scott Mathieson had the operation in 2006, and came back throwing almost triple-digits, harder than he had ever thrown before.
In terms of throwing harder, it does happen sometimes after TJ surgery. Phillies reliever Scott Mathieson had the operation in 2006, and came back throwing almost triple-digits, harder than he had ever thrown before.
white is right
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Look up David Clyde and this could be the future of Strasburg. This surgery while not nearly as fatal to a career as when Tommy John got it many pitchers loose a few mph after the surgery.
Strasburg is off to a strong start so far in 2012. He's 2-0 in three starts with 19 strikeouts in 19 innings and just 5 walks and an ERA of 1.42.
Tom Iron
Mentor
This shutting Strasurg down is very illuminating. I looked up some guys from the past. I'll list them. you can look them up.
Bob Friend
Vernon Law
Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn
Harvey Haadix
Sal Maglie
Carl Erkine
Bob Bulh
etc.
Look at the Complete games those guys pitched. How do you say "times are differnt" to that? Throwing the ball is the same as it ever was. Those guys could do that (ips and CPs) and these guys have to be "shut down." It's getting quite evident many/most young men today aren't up to what generations of men before them could do physically.
I wrote a letter (snail mail) to Davey Johnson saying what I said above and asked what he thought. So I'll await his answer, if any. This is a very interesting subject.
Tom Iron...
Bob Friend
Vernon Law
Steve Carlton
Warren Spahn
Harvey Haadix
Sal Maglie
Carl Erkine
Bob Bulh
etc.
Look at the Complete games those guys pitched. How do you say "times are differnt" to that? Throwing the ball is the same as it ever was. Those guys could do that (ips and CPs) and these guys have to be "shut down." It's getting quite evident many/most young men today aren't up to what generations of men before them could do physically.
I wrote a letter (snail mail) to Davey Johnson saying what I said above and asked what he thought. So I'll await his answer, if any. This is a very interesting subject.
Tom Iron...
Why wait for Davey Johnson when you have an expert like me to respond to you? :icon_wink:
I've discussed this with friends a lot myself. I may not go as far back as you but an interesting pitcher from my youth was Mickey Lolich. He pitched for the Tigers for a few years and lasted 16 years in the bigs. He is the all time left handed strikeout leader of the AL. He regularly threw over 300 innings. Frequently led the league in strikeouts. Was the big hero of the 1968 when he won three games and out dueled Bob Gibson in game 7. Also he was famously considered "fat" though today no one would even notice.
In the same era the Tigers had Denny McClain. McClain was another big armed pitcher, a righty who threw hard and won the Cy Young for his 31 win season. However after several very good years his arm was shot and he was done. I have read several of his bio's and he had a lot of arm trouble treating it with frequent shots of cortisone which numbed the pain but continued the damage.
What I got from the difference between these two guys is that you just never know who is going to be able to pitch a lot and who isn't. Back in the day a team had a small investment in most of those guys. Even the "stars" only made a few grand a year. It was probably more cost effective to burn them out early and then pay the workhorse's more dough when they had established themselves.
Nowadays a team has millions in a young pitcher. The payoff if they stay healthy is greater. Better to err on the side of caution then risk burning them out. Plus athletes now sue teams if they think they can make a case that the team overused them. With pitch counts and innings heavily tracked the team can protect itself by showing it used due diligence in using a young arm. Also the fans and especially the media whine when a youn guy pitches a lot. Even here in Detroit, the ace, Justin Verlander, who likes to pitch late into games causes conniptions amongst the media whenever the manager lets him go nine.
Young pitchers have always burned out early. I remember a few of them from years ago. Bob Score is one that was famous for it I think. Even today no matter how much they are babied they still burn out quick. Look at Kerry Wood.
So I think it is a combination of greater concern for higher investment, worry over lawsuits, and the general safety paranoia that inflicts modern society, that has changed the fact that pitchers are treated so differently today.
Look at the complete game leaders for the last 50 years, through to 1980 the leader was often around 20 sometimes even 30, recently it's been in the low single digits.
It's a mentality of babying pitchers getting paid ridiculous amounts of money combined with relieving "specialists" for not just the late innings but the middle innings of a game, too.
And the addition of a fifth starting pitcher on each team also corresponds pretty closely to when the number of complete games began going down by a considerable amount.
And the addition of a fifth starting pitcher on each team also corresponds pretty closely to when the number of complete games began going down by a considerable amount.
Truthteller
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Yes, this probably has everything to do with money. Strasburg received a $15.1 million signing bonus back in 2009. I tried to look up Dwight Gooden's signing bonus back in 1982, as he was Davey Johnson's last true "phenom". Couldn't find it, but found Griffey Jr. received a $169 K bonus in 1987. Considering Griffey was a higher pick (#1 overall) coming out of high school than Dwight (#5 overall), it's safe to say Gooden got anound 100 K, or less.
So, the National's investment is at least 150 times greater with Strasburg than the Mets had with Gooden? And that's just signing bonus, doesn't include salary. Obviously they generate a lot more revenue these days in baseball than in the 1980's (Nelson Doubleday bought the Mets for $21 mill in 1980), but I can't blame teams for being "over cautious" with these very expensive prospects, even though I agree with Tom Iron and hate the fact that this kid is being shut down.
P.S: I see nothing wrong with the 160-180 pitch limit, but the Nat's could've been smarter...How about sending Strasburg on vacation the entire month of August, then re-activate him in mid-September, after a short rehab stint in the minors? Pitchers go on the disabled list all the time for long stretches, then come back ready to go. Why not do that instead?
So, the National's investment is at least 150 times greater with Strasburg than the Mets had with Gooden? And that's just signing bonus, doesn't include salary. Obviously they generate a lot more revenue these days in baseball than in the 1980's (Nelson Doubleday bought the Mets for $21 mill in 1980), but I can't blame teams for being "over cautious" with these very expensive prospects, even though I agree with Tom Iron and hate the fact that this kid is being shut down.
P.S: I see nothing wrong with the 160-180 pitch limit, but the Nat's could've been smarter...How about sending Strasburg on vacation the entire month of August, then re-activate him in mid-September, after a short rehab stint in the minors? Pitchers go on the disabled list all the time for long stretches, then come back ready to go. Why not do that instead?