SI talks to Redick and Morrison

[jaxvid]

MHale you are a white hating troll, before you get banned as you deserve here is something for you to think about. If white players make up the 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8th best rebounders in a league where they are less then 20% of the starters then something is wrong. It's called the caste system. If that low a percentage of black players in another sport were among the leaders then the cry would be to find MORE of them. Yet you try to downgrade white players and want the number to be LESS. Why is that?

And don't go on about steals. That's stupid. Whites are excluded from the gaurd position where most of the steals come from. John Stockton is the all-time leader in steals. Is John Stockton an athletic freak that could play CB in the NFL? No? Why not?

 

[Guest]

MHale you are a white hating troll, before you get banned as you deserve here is something for you to think about. If white players make up the 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8th best rebounders in a league where they are less then 20% of the starters then something is wrong.

I'm a little sharper than that, jax. You just tried to slip a fallacious strawman argument in there, thinking I wouldn't notice. Sure, less than 20% of the starting 5 are white. Only problem is, that has nothing directly to do with the point icsept was making. He was specifically talking about rebounders, which in all honesty, only encompasses BIG MEN.</span>

Of the 28 </span>centers who play 20 or more minutes a game, HALF OF THEM:

1. David Lee
2. Mehmet Okur
3. Ming Yao
4. Andris Biedrins
5. Brad Miller
6. Marc Gasol
7. Brook Lopez
8. Andrea Bargnani
9. Anderson Varejao
10. Jeff Foster
11. Matt Bonner
12. Joel Przybilla
13. Rasho Nesterovic
14. Zaza Pachulia

14</span> (50%) are non-black. Being that half of the bigmen are white (except Yao), the point he made about half of rebounding monsters being white as well is meaningless.
Edited by: MHale

 

[jaxvid]

Well I'm a little sharper then that MHale. You also slipped in a straw man, you only listed centers, when the discussion was about "BIG MEN" as you pointed out. that makes up a much more sizable population of the players in the league then just centers. I don't have the time or interest to run the numbers but I see plenty of tall black guys on the court during an NBA game.

David Lee is a center? He's listed at 6'9"

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

MHale: Sorry, but your statistical chart does not prove Redick is a defensive liability. It proves that he only played 6% of the available minutes. One can assume these were "garbage time" minutes most likely with Dwight Howard on the bench. Even so, for such a small sample of minutes, there is a 2% difference in opponents field goal percentage. Hardly a significant statistical variance.

excellent point. i can't believe i didn't notice this myself. in scientific circles, this would be called statistically insignificant, with too small a data size and too many variables.

also, Redick played strictly man to man defense while he was in college. it's not like the guy runs with his feet in the mud. while he certainly isn't a phenomenal defender, he's not the worst defender in the league either.

Blocking shots and steals have always been a more indicative gauge of length, quickness, leaping, and athleticism.

really? so raw, unbridled athleticism explains why guys like Ronny Turiaf (#3), Tim Duncan (#7), Kendrick Perkins (#8), Emeka Okafor (#10), Samuel Dalembert (#11), Yao Ming (#13), and Shaquille O'Neal (#15) are amongst league leaders in blocked shots? interesting...

i can't wait to see the next Sportscenter highlight compilation showing the high-flying acrobatics of these skywalkers!

while it's true that many shot blockers ARE high risers, it's also true that many are not. take for example, Ronny Turiaf, who is black. he leads the NBA in blocks-per-48 minutes. he is not a high flyer by any stretch of the imagination. he does, however, play good position defense and has great instincts in help defense, which is where the majority of blocked shots come from, as anyone who follows basketball knows. the white Chris Andersen is second in the NBA in blocks-per-48. he IS a high flyer. there's more than one way to skin a cat.

and just one more note. two of the greatest basketball minds in history (John Wooden and Dean Smith) actually hated the blocked shot. they claimed that it was a last resort resulting from bad defense, and only players who couldn't guard their man made the blocked shot necessary. just something to think on.

Being that half of the bigmen are white (except Yao), the point he made about half of rebounding monsters being white as well is meaningless.

so, let me get this straight... in a position where there are actually enough white men to get a legitimate sample size, the fact that whites contribute on par with their black peers is irrelevant?

and you claim from this evidence that there should be fewer whites playing?

i don't understand that "logic" at all...

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Great post JC! Yeah Kirilenko, Chris Anderson and other white men are great shoot blockers as we have pointed out. I didn't know Birdman was 2nd in blocks per 48 minutes; good research. Kirilenko was 1st in Blocks per game at least one year.

A perfect indicator of the horrible officiating situation that Bigunreal discussed (although I won't go as far as say ghost fouls would be consistently called on whites if they play tight D) was the Kings-Lakers series in 02'. Fouls called on Vlad galore guarding Shaq when it should have been offensive or no call. Doug Christie called for a ghost foul at the end of that crucial game six on Kobe "get all the calls" Bryant. The refing situation usually manifests itself in allowing blacks to be more physical on Defense. I don't know if I agree that whites are sent to the line less than they should; because I have seen many whites get their fair share of free throws, but there is clearly some bias.

We saw a biased report on Outside the lines on how white refs send white players slightly more to the line and call slightly less fouls on white players than black refs and asked if racism was the question. Yet they didn't ask anything about possible black ref racism. I guess only whites can be racist. You know the refs in the NBA heard about this biased report.

Georgetown got all the calls that year in the game they won against Butler in the March Madness tournament. Jeff Greene even got away with a travel on his game winning shot.

You get a clearer picture in international play. Spain was only down 4 points against the U.S this Olympics with 2 minutes to go. This was despite an injury to their starting PG Calderon. They had Ricky Rubio at a mere 17 years old manning the point guard duties when he should have been their 6th man. The U.S did somewhat dominate this Olympics other than the final game, but in the Argentina game Ginobili (their best player) was also injured. The refing is actually fair in international play. Plus they call offensive fouls more often because they use the college rule. I can tell almost for a fact that the NBA offensive foul rule favors blacks who play a street ball scoring type game.

We have begun to see that even though the U.S is huge on the game of basketball that countries with a smaller population than the U.S black population (Serbia-Montenegro and Croatia) can at least make it very close with the U.S in international play.

MHale take you arguments elsewhere. We don't mind moderates at this site, but it seems your purpose is to meaninglessly bash white players without considering any of our very valid arguments.

I will agree with you on one thing. CB would probably be a slight black majority position if judged fairly because of blacks advantage in backpedal and straight-lined speed. CB is the only position that elite speed is always needed.

Many RBs can run a 4.55 or 4.6 and be effective. As we know many blacks are allowed; I have posted numerous lists of black RB "STARS" who run 4.55 or slower.

Note that rare White skill players who are allowed to go to the combine match or even surpass blacks in crucial 10 and 15 yard burst, 3 cone times and shuttle times for the RB and WR position. Look at how well white RBs who are actually allowed to play in Division IA are doing. Jake Sharp is pretty good, Gerhart is a monster, Derek Lawson is doing great at Arkansas State, Joe Martinek played the best on Rutgers in very limited time. There were record setters Luke Staley and Brock Forsey both ignored by the NFL. McGuffie struggled some at Michigan I agree, but that was mostly because of concussions and his first two games being so bad with an over-matched o-line; he definitely showed some signs of his potential to be a super-star at mid-season. Whites that should really be playing in the FBS write the record books in the lower divisions. Tell me where I'm wrong here MHale? Yeah you can't.

I will agree with you on one thing; I think CB should be a "slight" black majority position; but that is the only position I feel that should be. Good good I am tired of ranting when these blind squirrels won't concede any points.

 

[Deadlift]

Here's A.J. Abrams player page:

[url]http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpag e/566281[/url]


For me, the issue is this... Why is he even hyped-up on the college level?? I also think it's possible that he might get more opportunity than Redick in the NBA despite being 5-11, having few assists, and shooting a paltry 39% overall from the field.

Considering the fact that half of his shots are 3-pointers and half are 2-pointers, that is a LOW FG%. He has made 54 3's this season in 139 attempts.


I found a player that has made 52 3's in only 107 attempts. Everyone knows who he is, right? ESPN must certainly speak of this sharp-shooter often and wonder outloud why he doesn't have more shot-attempts?

[url]http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpag e/1332521[/url]

He's also a tall man at 6-foot-6. A sophomore who, in theory, SHOULD average 15-20 PPG next season.


P.S. Kevin Love had another double-double (in 26 minutes) -- 17 points, 10 rebounds and 4 assists.

David Lee had another great game in a win over a young and athletic Atlanta Hawks' team. 16 rebounds and 17 points.

Despite the NBA "over-flowing" with talent, 3 teams failed to reach 80 points yesterday (Washington, the Clippers and Charlotte). Regardless of the "style" played in the NBA, this shouldn't be happening. It's one thing to lose, but teams should be able to reach 80-points by ACCIDENT!!

 

[Guest]

Well I'm a little sharper then that MHale. You also slipped in a straw man, you only listed centers, when the discussion was about "BIG MEN" as you pointed out. that makes up a much more sizable population of the players in the league then just centers. I don't have the time or interest to run the numbers but I see plenty of tall black guys on the court during an NBA game.

</span>
Sharper thEn that? LOL

I'm not gonna go through the power forwards either, but there's plenty of whites as well. Granted, the proportion of whites do decrease progressively as you go from center to forward to guard, tho.. the reason being because the smaller players require more speed, athleticism, and lateral movement to cover the other smaller players. Ironically, it's also why Redick rides the pine. If you're only a 40% shooter, which is what he was fpr most of college and now the pros, you'll have to bring more to table to play.

BB centers &amp; FB offensive linemen-type, size-optimal positions where a big body is needed to clog up space will always be race-neutral. Athleticism is a bonus

BB guards, slashing forwards, FB corners, safeties, field-stretching wideouts, scatbacks, and other speed-centric positions where the aforementioned quickness, athleticism, and lateral movement are needed will always trend black. Size is a bonus.

It's not a knock on white players, that's just how it's always gonna be. GMs and coaches with decades and decades of intimate experience with the sports have pretty much ALL concluded who's better at these positions. Their multi-million dollar lifestyles are totally dependent on these decisions and their success. Therefore there's obviously something behind it. They could be unabashed prideful racialists AT HOME, but when it comes to their livelihood, they're not gonna F with what they've deemed necessary to win.

David Lee is a center? He's listed at 6'9"

There's no height requirement to play center. He's started just as many games at center this year as he did forward.. which is why he's also listed as a center as well as forward.

 

[Fightingtowin]

Well I'm a little sharper then that MHale. You also slipped in a straw man, you only listed centers, when the discussion was about "BIG MEN" as you pointed out. that makes up a much more sizable population of the players in the league then just centers. I don't have the time or interest to run the numbers but I see plenty of tall black guys on the court during an NBA game.

</span>
Sharper thEn that? LOL

I'm not gonna go through the power forwards either, but there's plenty of whites as well. Granted, the proportion of whites do decrease progressively as you go from center to forward to guard, tho.. the reason being because the smaller players require more speed, athleticism, and lateral movement to cover the other smaller players. Ironically, it's also why Redick rides the pine. If you're only a 40% shooter, which is what he was fpr most of college and now the pros, you'll have to bring more to table to play.

BB centers &amp; FB offensive linemen-type, size-optimal positions where a big body is needed to clog up space will always be race-neutral. Athleticism is a bonus

BB guards, slashing forwards, FB corners, safeties, field-stretching wideouts, scatbacks, and other speed-centric positions where the aforementioned quickness, athleticism, and lateral movement are needed will always trend black. Size is a bonus.

It's not a knock on white players, that's just how it's always gonna be. GMs and coaches with decades and decades of intimate experience with the sports have pretty much ALL concluded who's better at these positions. Their multi-million dollar lifestyles are totally dependent on these decisions and their success. Therefore there's obviously something behind it. They could be unabashed prideful racialists AT HOME, but when it comes to their livelihood, they're not gonna F with what they've deemed necessary to win.</span>

So you must also believe people making million dollar decisions never discriminated against blacks either? For instance, in the NFL I'm sure GMs and owners in the 70s, 80s and 90s never passed over a black quarterback because of false stereotypes. I'm sure a black quarterback was never forced to switch positions when he deserved a shot at quarterback, just like white skilled position players have to today. Even though there was never a black NFL head coach until 1989 and only one in 1995, I'm sure there was never a qualified black coach passed over because of his skin color. Shoot, in 1989 I believe, the president of the Dodgers said there were no black managers because blacks didn't have the innate "mental capability."

Yup, these were people who had "multi-million dollar lifestyles totally dependent on these decisions and their success,</span>" yet made their decisions largely because of race. Many people back then believed the lack of black coaches and quarterbacks "was just how it was always going to be."</span> Whoops.

The same race based decisions are happening to white athletes right now.
Edited by: Fightingtowin

 

[bigunreal]

It's always illuminating when one of these "guests" troll in for a visit. This is the mindset we're up against, folks. A complete inability to reason. A complete devotion to black supremacy. All due to decades of persistent condiditioning from television, movies and music.

Yes, "natural" athleticism explains why there have been virtually no starting white RBs or CBs for over 20 years in the NFL. Someone, this "natural" athleticism only occurs in our most magical minority group. While this contradicts the "everyone is equal," "we are all one" mantra, that's okay, because Americans are perfectly fluent in Orwellian doublethink by now. Stereotypes= bad, providing they are negative ones about blacks (less intelligent, lazy, prone to violence, loud, inconsiderate, etc.)

However, if the stereotype is a positive one, as long as it's about blacks, then it's perfectly legitimate. Thus, when someone says matter-of-factly that "blacks are better athletes," no one protests. Curiously, no one really protests when they are said to have bigger penises, either. Or that they're better "natural" dancers. Why is that, do you suppose? After all, we're all the same, aren't we? How could one's skin color affect his ability to play a particular position in football? Or the size of his sexual organ? Or his ability to dance?

Somehow, though, this doesn't work when it's applied to whites. Thus, you cannot say that whites are "naturally" intelligent. You can, however, say that "white boys have no rhythm" and everyone chuckles and nods their heads in agreement. Okay, enough ranting.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

Interestingly that block headed troll MHale didn't address my post at all. I even agreed with him that CB should probably be a black majority position (albeit a slight one and the only one that should be).

If you need both magical hip wiggle and speed than tell me why Mhale that Lendale White, Ron Dayne, Ryan Torain, LeRon McClain (nobody could explain this one even if they tried), Mike Hart etc. etc. are allowed to carry the ball in the NFL? However, Sam McGuffie, Jake Sharp, Toby Gerhart (although not a burner; still faster than all those black guys and very powerful) won't get a sniff.

Yes GMs and coaches will discriminate to keep their jobs rather than infuriate drunken white fans who will judge the white skill player as crap right away or piss off the black RB by starting a white RB ahead of him. Black tailbacks would feel insulted by backing up a white in today's hip-hop culture NFL. Not to mention the media's outright lying to keep the myth going. Yes there are clearly other factors here that the pea-sized brain of Mhale can't consider.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Another troll wanted to play. Anyways getting back to Morrison and Redick. It's kind of depressing how their careers are going so far. Morrison is getting less minutes this year than last. Redick had some nice games when he got minutes. I really wish these guys could be stars in the NBA like they were in college. Hopefully they will catch a break.