sal_paradise hello/good-bye

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Kaptain Poop said:
Sark6354201 said:
Statistics do not always tell the complete tale. Blacks may disproportionally commit crimes, but one must also look at whether or not there are other factors influencing that statistic. If blacks are also as disproportionally poor, and people who are poor commit more crimes, one must then conclude that it is a factor of environment and class and not race.

If blacks commit more crimes because they are poor, then they should quit being poor. Why should I care WHY a black man commits a crime? The only important stat is that a crime was commited and I don't have to stand for it for any reason. Besides, stats show higher black crime rates even when class is accounted for.

Cease looking through it with a racial lens. I am saying that people in general will commit more crimes if they are poor, not just blacks. In relation to whites and the black population, the number of black criminals is higher because they are poor, not poor and black.

To 'quit being poor' is a bit harder than it seems. History is rife with class conflict, and the rise of the middle class is one of the predominant themes in world history. Social mobility is not an easy factor for any race. Why do you think Communism had such appeal to the downtrodden peasants of Tsarist Russia
smiley2.gif
 

Bart

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Sark6354201 said:
Cease looking through it with a racial lens.


Our view of reality doesn't require a lens.We see the situation clearly. In respect to Blacks, you're the one looking through lenses--rose colored.
 

jared

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C'mon now guys. All Sark and I are trying to say is try to look at blacks and crime with the same level of openness and scrutiny with which we all approach the underrepresentation of whites in sports. Of course everyone knows blacks account for more crime per capita. Surely you must believe there are reasons for that, not that it's simply in their nature. I think economic factors are a part of it. I believe black culture is largely broken. A thug/gangster image is glorified while blacks who seem like successful, articulate, assimilated members of American society are regarded as sell-outs or "acting white". I'm not looking through a lens. I can recognize that there are many problems within the black community. My response is "how do we fix it"? Cause I tell you what brother, Blacks aren't going away anytime soon and neither are Hispanics or Jews for that matter. If you're envisioning some utopia where we're all racially segregated I don't see it happening.
I've travelled a good deal and met people from a lot of different cultures. In my opinion, they all want the same basic things out of life. I can coexist with any individual who shows me the same respect and courtesy that I show him. If some of them don't, then I'll deal with it but I won't write off an entire race based on the actions of a portion of their community. Especially when a little due diligence can uncover and potentially fix some of the root causes of those actions.
p.s. i've been drinking, hopefully that was coherent.Edited by: jared
 

White Shogun

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What's the crime rate in Appalachia?
 

PitBull

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Oct 20, 2006
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You might have a good argument Jared and Sark, if it weren't for the fact
that middle class and upper income blacks also have wildly
disproportionate crime rates. The issue is indeed race, and if it is this
way no matter what the circumstances, there's little left to conclude that
it is genetic and racial.

We fix what crime blacks commit against us by segregation. We cannot
fix the crime they perpetrate on each other.

The problem with your anecdotal approach, Jared, is that you cannot pick
and choose this or that minority for being your neighbor in an open
society. You get all of them. And when you get all of them, you get what
they all bring, and the statistics tell us what a broad population of them
brings, and it ain't good! Make your own choice as to whether or not you
would like to live in a free society, or a totalitarian one which will be
needed to police and enforce a multi-cultural state. You see, in a free
society, blacks and other minorities would do poorly as compared to
whites, blame all their problems on racism, and then attack. Its a story of
multi-cultural societies everywhere, in all eras of human history, a Cain
and Abel story writ large. The only thing that can keep it together is a
totalitiarian dictatorship where income and power is redistributed, and
which rules
with an iron fist. Look at the former Yugoslavia, or at Iraq. That is
reality. What you are being sold is a fantasy.

Segregation may be distasteful, but it works, just like quarantines do, and
for the same reasons. Look at it this way, if you want to see foreign
populations, you can always travel and make the decision yourself instead
of imposing it on the rest of us. "Integration" of races in America has
been done against the will of the people and in conjunction with the
stripping of rights and massive redistribution of income, and we become
poorer and less free every year. Those really are the two choices,
freedom and segregation (which would and is happening anyway), or
totalitarianism. Don't just feel pity for degraded blacks. Think of the
theft and suffering of your own people. If blacks really were equal, they
wouldn't need our help, they would be able to take care of themselves.
Its not our responsibility to take care of them.

I feel sorry for blacks too, on occasion, especially the little kids. But ask
yourself, what animal in the natural world has offspring, and then sits
around and waits for the rest of the animal kingdom to feed and raise
them? None! So every person that has a kid has a claim on your income?
How many kids, 1, 2, 20, 100? That's insane! They don't care--they will
create a Malthusian nightmare, and expect everyone else to fix it? Let
them take care of themselves! The society that you have grown up in is
so unnatural that its hard to even imagine that it never existed here as
recently as 50 years ago-easily in the lifespan of a middle-aged adult.
That's not long. But even so, it still has not, nor will ever, work. That's
the point.

Its time to cut bait. Remember, if they really are capable, they could take
care of themselves. You don't owe them anything. Stop feeling guilty.
Its your job to take care of yourself and your family, not to save the
world. It cannot and has never happened before, and you won't be the
first. If you want to give charity, give to your own. There are plenty of
whites who could use a hand. That should stop your guilt. Someone
deserving is getting the charity. Keep it in the tribe. You may not think
so, but the rest of the tribes think and act this way. Its only we whites
who have gone off the deep end.Edited by: PitBull
 
Joined
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Race is by far the most accurate predictor of violent criminal acts.

If poverty was the most prominent influence of crime then poor Whites would be commiting the vast majority of crime in this country, as they are far more numerous then poor Blacks. Unfortunately the data doesn't trend that way and in fact Blacks of all economic brackets account for an undeniably disporportionate level of violent crime.

We know that there are physical differences between races, we take advantage of this knowledge in medicine. However, because it is a social taboo to discuss how these physical differences may effect behavioral traits, it is convienently left out. The truth is that there is a difference between dealing with individuals and dealing with groups of related individuals. To treat these groups as individuals is foolish and will only lead to the mess we now find ourselves in. Blacks as a related group trend towards certain behaviors, we should recognize these trends and treat them accordingly. If individuals prove to buck the trend, then by all means treat them accordingly, but to pre-judge them as being exceptional without knowledge of such is just plain dumb.

That's the point here, afterall isn't it? If there is a perception that Whites aren't athletic enough to play CB for example, but then an individual comes along who proves otherwise, shouldn't they be given the benefit of the doubt? And if enough of those exceptional individuals appear then the group becomes looked upon in a different light. But to put Blacks at the QB position because afterall we are all equal, disregarding their lack of achievement at the position is rediculous.
 

KG2422

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Aug 10, 2005
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Black criminality is consistent throughout the world. It's as consistent as death and taxes. To believe otherwise is idealism/altruism gone awry.
 

PitBull

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Oct 20, 2006
Messages
448
If this analogy helps out, don't even think about race at all. Just think of the
personality differences between children in the same family. Any parent will
tell you that children are born with a specific personality. Personality is
largely genetically determined.

If that's true, and like reclaimsocal says, we know there are genetic
differences between the races, why wouldn't there be genetic differences in
personality traits as well? If this is true, such traits are intractable. Think
about that.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
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Crap, I wish I could find the online portion of a book that looks at race. It basically said that blacks weren't immoral, so much as amoral by white or Asian standards.
 

PitBull

Guru
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Oct 20, 2006
Messages
448
Matt Bowen Fan,

What's the difference? Are you saying that blacks don't know the difference
between good and bad? Nope, not buyin'. What does it matter anyway if
they do so much harm? That's all I care about.
 

White Shogun

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Amoral is worse than immoral anyway. At least the immoral person knows that he does wrong. The amoral person can't even be persuaded- neither by guilt nor logic.
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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I've said it before, and i'll probably keep saying it until things change...


The problem is double standards.


"People" are so willing to laud praises upon blacks and give them the benefit of the doubt when it is regarding something they are alleged to be gifted or superior at. Dancing, jumping high, running fast, having big goobers, naturally superior talent, being cool, etc. are just a few of the examples where the white man simply can't "measure up."


This happens nationwide, and the white populace is supposed to be convinced that these things are "natural" and "universal" in the black community. Not only that, NO white person can even hope to match their abilities. It's simply genetics. Blacks are born with it, and Whites "better recognize." These beliefs have shaped our society, DESPITE plenty of exceptions and evidence to the contrary.


Counter that with this...


When reams of evidence support the fact/belief/bias/whatever-you-want-to-call-it that blacks are MUCH more prone to violent crime and are MUCH more likely to be un-intelligent, the same people who jump on the "black genetic bandwagon" with regard to the myth of black superiority, suddenly shout, "Hold up a minute! That's racist!"


This double standard is the root of the problem, and until it is stopped I don't think things are going to get any better.
 
Joined
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Messages
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White Shogun said:
Amoral is worse than immoral anyway. At least the immoral person knows that he does wrong. The amoral person can't even be persuaded- neither by guilt nor logic.

Exactly.
 
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