Riots in Wisconsin?

[Observer]

The way I read the article, mostly white college graduates will teach at mostly non-white schools, but without having to go through the conventional teachers' colleges. Why is this bad?...

One reason it's bad is that is appear to be grounded in the stupid assumption that

1) the achievement gap between black students and white students CAN be lessened or equalized
...
This appears to be just another dumbass white liberal scheme!

Although not directly addressing the point regarding "Teach for America", there has been evidence that the extreme achievement problems of the poorest and most "at-risk" can be mitigated -- and at a bargain price. It is also relevant to the secondary debate on this thread of private vs. government schools. I could not find the report that I had run across earlier, but here are some references:

-The poorer and more at-risk a student is, the greater the relative achievement gains in Catholic schools (York, 1996).

-The "multiply disadvantaged"Â￾ benefit most from Catholic schools (Evans & Schwab, 1995; Greeley, 1982; Neal, 1997).

-Social class effects on educational achievement are significantly lessened in Catholic schools (Bryk, Lee, & Holland, 1993; Greeley, 1982).

-The achievement gap is smaller in faith-based schools (Jeynes, 2007; Marks & Lee, 1989).

-Students in Catholic and other private schools demonstrate higher academic achievement than students from similar backgrounds in public schools (Coleman & Hoffer, 1987; Coleman, Hoffer, & Kilgore, 1982; Greeley, 1982; Sander, 1996).

-Latino and African American students who attend Catholic schools are more likely to graduate from high school and more likely to graduate from college than their public school peers (Benson, Yeager, Guerra, & Manno, 1986; Evans & Schwab, 1995; Neal, 1997; Sander & Krautman, 1995).
Graduates of Catholic high schools are more likely to vote than public school graduates (Dee, 2005).

-Graduates of Catholic schools are likely to earn higher wages than public school graduates (Hoxby, 1994; Neal, 1997).

-Catholic schools tend to produce graduates who are more civically engaged, more tolerant for diverse views, and more committed to service as adults (Campbell, 2001; Greeley & Rossi, 1966; Greene, 1998; Wolf, Greene, Kleitz, & Thalhammer, 2001).

 

[Westside]

OK Kaptain you are going to get your answer on what I do for a living. First though, and it may come as a surprise, I respect you and your insightful and statistic infused posts on all things NFL. I respect and learn from all posters here who are racially aware and understand the forces against us.

Some of your zingers were quite funny as well, like "Too much fluoride in the water" or "spoon feeding you" LOL.

Also, I viewed the first page of this thread. I should have clarified my venom at the teachers at LAUSD, the teachers who I knew of as being good for nothing teachers in Los Angeles. I also note the majority of incompetent teachers are minorities with a large "minority" of White ones as well. I am sure Kaptain you are an excellent teacher. I have stated in the past great teachers are a noble profession and needed to teach our young ones.

Ok, in the spirit of NOT full disclosure I am one of the following. A fireman, police officer or EMT operator. WE all support and belong to the same union. We support conservative candidates for public office. Unlike the rest of the country we were not too successful. Also I will not answer questions to what specific profession I belong to. Also, our 401K is fully funded by us, the city does NOT match one cent, its called Deferred Compensation. We contribute significantly to our dental, health and pension, way more that the state union professionals. FYI.

We all learn here and evolve, hopefully for the better.

So in the spirit of peace and respecting of other posters points of view, I offer a another olive branch to end our 2nd entertaining flame war.

 

[jaxvid]

I think it's great they are cutting the budget in Wisconsin. I hope those most deserving of their wages/benefits get hurt the least but it's still a good idea to me.

I also hope they cut welfare, decrease taxes, stop corporate subsidies, farm assistance and any other benefit to special interest groups.

A similar thing is happening here in Michigan and even at the national level there are some rumbles of tax/budget cutting. It's a step in the right direction and hopefully with sufficient pressure cuts can be made in the right places. It's a lot better then ever increasing spending with no attempt to stop it.

 

[Kaptain]

Fair enough, Westside. The conversation has been heated but very educational for everybody.

You couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher in LAUSD, or a police officer for that matter. I'm sure the teachers are mostly minorities and suck - but who would know the difference between a good or bad teacher there? They all would look bad when trying to teach in such an environment.

Our school matches our TRA. I would assume Wisconsin differs little from Minnesota in public school teaching contracts. It amounts to 300 dollars a month matched. Whether they match it or just give us 300 dollars more in salary per month doesn't make much of a difference. Matching retirement plans are also common practice in the private sector. You can look at it as 3,600 extra dollars a year - that we'll probably never see anyway.

I took a look at the salary and benefits of police officers in LAUSD. According to the website, the education required is far less than teachers, but the pay is considerably more. The benefits look pretty good too, but as you said it's fully funded. I'd say overall the pay scale far outdoes the teacher's contracts even for the LA area. I think police officers in general deserve their pay. It's just pretty confusing why you hate the teacher's union and teacher pay but support your own union and pay/benefits which seem to be quite a bit better than a teacher's salary and benefits.


Website I used for LAPD salary benefits requirements etc. Edited by: Kaptain

 

[Kaptain]

It's a step in the right direction and hopefully with sufficient pressure cuts can be made in the right places. It's a lot better then ever increasing spending with no attempt to stop it.

But they always seem to chose the wrong places to start and never seem to get around to right places. If the government finally decided to start getting tough on immigration, I wouldn't support the start of their getting tough by banning all European immigration only. That would be a step in the wrong direction and so is the attack on the teacher's union.

If we support the wrong direction - raiding of worker's pensions and social security trust fund, the right direction will never have to be addressed.

 

[Deus Vult]

The success of private schools has nothing do with the teachers - it's the students, their better parents, and the fact that not everybody gets into private schools and they can be kicked out (discipline). It is tougher teaching in a public school - no doubt.

Reading through this entire thread, I have not agreed with all of what the good Kaptain has contributed. However, the preceding is indisputably true, and Kaptain deserves all credit for distilling the subject matter.

In most jurisdictions, the parochial and private schools are simply better their neighboring public schools. Private schools have the luxury of holding students to higher minimal standards. Ultimately it is the intelligence of the student(s) that makes some schools "achieve" more or less than others. Private schools also tend to get more out of each individual student; but that is less on the quality of the individual teachers than it is the quality of the institutions, top to bottom.

 

[Westside]

Your right Kaptain this thread has been very educational and important. It currently has 130 replies and over 2000 views!

I believe this story will be huge in the coming election. The Democratic party relies on the life blood(contributions via members dues)of the Unions in all sectors across America. Interesting times ahead.

When this wave hits CA should be a must see and read story with Governor Moonbeam holding court.

 

[Westside]

Also Kaptain I would demonize Public Sector Unions less if they supported conservative candidates rather than throw money at BO and his ilk.

 

[Bart]

I heard some callers discussing this on a radio talk show. First I heard about this scam.

Post at SF

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t781740/

Wisconsin Teachers Union owns health insurance company - they 'collectively bargained' for


It turns out that collective bargaining is one of the ways that the Teacher's Union is stealing from the taxpayers of Wisconsin. A union-mandated high-cost health plan that is owned by the union is milking the taxpayers by charging premiums that far exceed market norms, and are doing so with impunity or apparent recourse.

This is why collective bargaining for benefits and insurance (NOT WAGES) are and should be taken off the table for WI Public Sector Unions.

Can anyone who is Pro Gov't Worker Union explain to me how, by any stretch of the imagination, they believe that this kind of outright Bilking of the taxpayer be allowed to continue?

The extremely thorough (Cadillac) and monstrously expensive health insurance enjoyed by 64% of WI's public school district employees is paid for by the taxpayer as a direct result of Union 'Collective Bargaining".
The clincher?The health carrier identity, which is required be subjected to collective bargaining, is owned by the GD Union!!!!!

What a racket!


WEA Trust has grown very fat on public school dollars, with a net worth of $316 million and a team of 12 administrators all receiving compensation packages worth six figures per year.

How's that for the perfect set up?

The Union forms a trust and becomes an insurance carrier, writes the most awesome insurance policy that money can buy, charges a very pretty penny for it, has it legislated that 'collective bargaining includes insurance carrier identity,' and has their Union members demand that their own health insurance company be the provider with their Collective Bargaining Power.

 

[Tom Iron]

Gentlemen,

Sorry, I don't know how to paste this on this site, but it's interesting reading as far as "good and/or bad" schools go. The teachers today can't do this work, forgetabout the students. Take a look at it. Google it.

8th Grade ExamCould You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895? ...Take a Look: This is the eighth-
grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. USA. ...
people.moreheadstate.edu/fs/w.willis/eighthgrade.html - 5k - Similar pages

Tom Iron...

 

[Observer]

Tom, that link is almost amazing.
Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?

Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?
...Take a Look:

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. USA.
It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley
Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the
Salina Journal.

8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per are, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of theRebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates:
1607
1620
1800
1849
1865

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono,super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd,cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane,fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced andindicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is theocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba,Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.

 

[Tom Iron]

Observer,

Thanks much. That takes care of the argument over "good and bad" schools.

Tom Iron...

 

[Kaptain]

Also Kaptain I would demonize Public Sector Unions less if they supported conservative candidates rather than throw money at BO and his ilk.

That goes both ways. How could a union support a candidate that clearly is against union rights? Besides, so-called "conservative" candidates are often just as liberal as any liberal Democrat - they just support corporations, perpetual war, the banking industry, and other causes that aren't officially Liberal or Conservative but certainly are not in our interest.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

That exam is really interesting. Thanks for mentioning it, Tom Iron. How far we have fallen!

 

[jaxvid]

How's that for the perfect set up?

The Union forms a trust and becomes an insurance carrier, writes the most awesome insurance policy that money can buy, charges a very pretty penny for it, has it legislated that 'collective bargaining includes insurance carrier identity,' and has their Union members demand that their own health insurance company be the provider with their Collective Bargaining Power.

Bart, they're all white working people so you shouldn't say anything bad about them! Don't you understand that it is the plan of communists and republicans to set you against your white brothers in the trust/insurance/union business? You should support that they make so much money and instead only worry about immigration and welfare benefits!

 

[Observer]

Rasmussen Reports: 48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions

 

[Don Wassall]

Rasmussen Reports: 48% Back GOP Governor in Wisconsin Spat, 38% Side With Unions

Just the way the system loves it. Two and only two choices, both with roughly the support of half of themisled population, which can be effortlessly tinkered with and change 5 or 10 percentage points the other way overnight witha slightly differentcorporate media spin. That's the "genius" of American "democracy" in a nutshell.

How about a different choice -- charge, try and hang the banksters and other criminals whoare convictedof plunderingthe country's wealth and destroying its values and economy, and give the peoplea government that watches out for Americans first and always rather than trying to rule the world, so that what's left of the middle and working class doesn't have to always fight each other over a continually diminishing amount of "trickle-down" scraps.

 

[jaxvid]

<div>How about a different choice -- charge, try and hang the banksters and other criminals who are convicted of plundering the country's wealth and destroying its values and economy, and give the people a government that watches out for Americans first and always rather than trying to rule the world, so that what's left of the middle and working class doesn't have to always fight each other over a continually diminishing amount of "trickle-down" scraps.</div>

That ones not on the list, what is your next choice?

 

[Freethinker]

How the US "lame"stream media chooses to cover or better yet NOT cover this issue could be telling...
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mI--Ar8Ry0[/TUBE]

 

[Don Wassall]

How about a different choice -- charge, try and hang the banksters and other criminals whoare convictedof plunderingthe country's wealth and destroying its values and economy, and give the peoplea government that watches out for Americans first and always rather than trying to rule the world, so that what's left of the middle and working class doesn't have to always fight each other over a continually diminishing amount of "trickle-down" scraps.

That ones not on the list, what is your next choice?

My choice isto encouragemore Whites to start seeing the Big Picture, so that it becomes a choice rather than public sector White workers and private sector White workers seeing each other as foes. Until then the same games will continue to be played and all but the few at the top who set the rules will continue to win. The political system is rigged, and so is the economic system. My choice is to try to get more Whites to understand that and stop playing their assigned roles inthe two (nearly identical) choice charade, as futile as those efforts have been over many years of trying.

 

[Observer]

<div>How about a different choice -- charge, try and hang the banksters and other criminals who are convicted of plundering the country's wealth and destroying its values and economy, and give the people a government that watches out for Americans first and always rather than trying to rule the world, so that what's left of the middle and working class doesn't have to always fight each other over a continually diminishing amount of "trickle-down" scraps.</div>

That ones not on the list, what is your next choice?

<div></div>
<div></div>
<div> </div>
<div>My choice is to encourage more Whites to start seeing the Big Picture, so that it becomes a choice rather than public sector White workers and private sector White workers seeing each other as foes.  Until then the same games will continue to be played and all but the few at the top who set the rules will continue to win.  The political system is rigged, and so is the economic system.  My choice is to try to get more Whites to understand that and stop playing their assigned roles in the two (nearly identical) choice charade, as futile as those efforts have been over many years of trying.  </div>

1* How closely have you followed news reports about the Wisconsin governor's effort to limit collective bargaining rights for most state employees?

2* Does the average public employee in your state earn more than the average private sector worker in your state, less than the average private sector worker in your state or do they earn about the same amount?

3* Should teachers, firemen and policemen be allowed to go on strike?

4* In the dispute between the governor and the union workers, do you agree more with the governor or the union for teachers and other state employees?

5* Would you favor or oppose reducing your state government payroll 1% a year for 10 years, either by reducing the number of state employees or by cutting the pay of state workers?

SUGGESTED EDITIONS:
"Encourage more Whites to start seeing the Big Picture" BY...
A. Separating school-and-state?
B. Allowing people to keep more of their own income by a reduction in taxes (see A above), and encourage an alternate media with this funding?
C. ?

 

[jaxvid]

I think that this incident is different. It's not something that has been done before. I can't recall in my lifetime any politician taking on govt unions with the exception of Reagan and air traffic controllers. That situation was not mainly about budgetary considerations.

I think my "role" should be to encourage the govt to relinquish as much power as possible. Defunding unions, which donate to the Dem party to the tune of many millions a year is a good start. I think the Repubs should be defunded too but that's another battle. To the extent white working class people and white people in general find themselves in the situation we are today is because of the power of corrupt politicians to stay in power by virtue of their support from govt unions and access to the political process.

This is a step in the right direction. It is even more important to defund them NOW when a relatively peaceful white population make up the majority of govt workers instead of waiting until the future when the brown and black hordes make up the majority of govt workers. It will be impossible to to cut back anything when they have the majority as they will riot violently to keep their positions.

If the efforts of Wisconsin and other states are turned back now then their never will be a chance to break the cycle of govt unions voting themselves unlimited shares of the public treasury. I feel for the hard working white people in govt jobs, they are not the problem! It is the people that call the shots and give themselves insane pensions and benefits. It's got to stop. The only way to slay the head of the dragon is to attack the body.

When a corporation gives out insane pensions and benefits that are unsustainable the whole thing eventually crashes because they are subject to market forces. Govt's are not, that is why some fiscal responsibility has to be forced upon them.

Some people who look at the "Big Picture" can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Bart]

If the efforts of Wisconsin and other states are turned back now then their never will be a chance to break the cycle of govt unions voting themselves unlimited shares of the public treasury.

I agree.

I feel for the hard working white people in govt jobs, they are not the problem! It is the people that call the shots and give themselves insane pensions and benefits. It's got to stop.

Well, many of them are the problem. People like to say they have a problem with the Union, not the members. Or they'll say they like the teachers but not the Union leaders.

Well, where did the leaders come from? They are elected by the members of the Union. They work hand in glove.

There are some Union teachers by the way who are not liberals and do not like what their leadership is doing. They are screwed.

They are forced to pay dues to a Union that uses that cash to influence the political system and society in ways that are totally against their beliefs and interests.

That totally stinks, but they MUST pay the Commisars if they want a job.

Scott Walker is trying to put and to that. He is standin up for those without a voice!

Bout freakin' time.

 

[Don Wassall]

I think that this incident is different. It's not something that has been done before. I can't recall in my lifetime any politician taking on govt unions with the exception of Reagan and air traffic controllers. That situation was not mainly about budgetary considerations.

I think my "role" should be to encourage the govt to relinquish as much power as possible. Defunding unions, which donate to the Dem party to the tune of many millions a year is a good start. I think the Repubs should be defunded too but that's another battle. To the extent white working class people and white people in general find themselves in the situation we are today is because of the power of corrupt politicians to stay in power by virtue of their support from govt unions and access to the political process.

This is a step in the right direction. It is even more important to defund them NOW when a relatively peaceful white population make up the majority of govt workers instead of waiting until the future when the brown and black hordes make up the majority of govt workers. It will be impossible to to cut back anything when they have the majority as they will riot violently to keep their positions.

If the efforts of Wisconsin and other states are turned back now then their never will be a chance to break the cycle of govt unions voting themselves unlimited shares of the public treasury. I feel for the hard working white people in govt jobs, they are not the problem! It is the people that call the shots and give themselves insane pensions and benefits. It's got to stop. The only way to slay the head of the dragon is to attack the body.

When a corporation gives out insane pensions and benefits that are unsustainable the whole thing eventually crashes because they are subject to market forces. Govt's are not, that is why some fiscal responsibility has to be forced upon them.

Some people who look at the "Big Picture" can't see the forest for the trees.

Interesting that you favorably mention the air traffic controllers being humiliated. As I wrote in the Reagan thread, that was one of the very few times that Reagan actually showed aggressive leadership, but cui bono? The firing of the air traffic controllers -- early on in the first Reagan administration -- marked the beginning of an all-out assault on unions in this country. Before the firing of the air traffic controllers, strikes by large unions were a common occurrence in this country; afterwards they quickly became almost extinct in the private sector, except for the country club unions of pro athletes.

Coinciding with the demise of the air traffic controllers was the large-scale move toward deindustrialization, "free trade," outsourcing and the rest of the dismantling of the U.S.'s industrial might. Once unions were greatly weakened, there was no resistance offered to the transformation of the economy as both monopoly parties were and remain in favor of it.

Unions aren't wonderful, but they are a necessary evil for large industries and certain occupations (just as they're a death-knell for small businesses). Without them, the U.S. would have never left the sweat shop age, the one we are headed back to now, except with "service" jobs instead of factory jobs. Unions provided a fair wage for blue-collar workers, a chance for a middle class lifestyle. The successful building of a large middle class is one of this country's greatest achievements, and without a large middle class we are just another banana republic police state. Now that union power in the private sector has been castrated, blue-collar White men are either unemployed, or working as greeters at Wal-Mart and order takers at Burger King, at greatly reduced wages, not to mentionwith nodignity.

Unlike the federal monstrosity in D.C., the states have to actually find ways to balance their budgets and pay off debts. The fedgovcan just make a computer entry and claim that the Federal Reserve has "loaned" it another trillion dollars or so of monopoly money. But it's different for the states and the ongoing depression has greatly cut into state and local revenue, and thus they are cutting back some of the fat and bloated salaries and benefits, as has been long overdue.

Public sector workers are for the most part willing to make concessions, because they have no choice. I detest what government at all levels has become in this country as much as anyone.Public workers have lorded it over private sector workers anddeserve their comeuppance. But -- taking away the right of public workers to organize is to consign many of them to the same fate as what's happened to blue-collar union workers. The agenda of the power structureis to diminish the middle class and the standard of living in this country to a Third World level, which is exactly what's taking place.

Youcan believe that "conservative" Republicans like Scott Walker are suddenly the friends of the White working man, the same "conservatives" who would rather undergo waterboarding than say anything that can be construed as pro-White. I happen to think they remain the waterboys of the corporate and Zionist elites and know where their bread is buttered. Having the great bulk of White public employees join the same boat as the rest of the sinking White middle class is not a step forward to a better country or a better situation for White Americans. The needed solutions are top-down ones and until that happens White America will continue to fade away.

 

[white lightning]

While unions are on the decline, there is still strength in numbers. The workers of UPS back in 1997 had a nation wide strike that changed the way packages are handled. The competition couldn't hand the amount of packages when the strike started. The strike went on for almost 3 weeks until a settlement was reached. President Clinton had to hire a mediator or it might have never ended. The union fought and won against very heavy odds. The people of Wisconsin might just pull this off yet. They are determined and unified. We will see what happens.