Rejoice! You won!

[Bronk]

The people kicked the elite in the nads yesterday ... right in the effing balls.

The entire establishment was united in favor of this $700-billion power grab by the state: The Federal Reserve, the Treasury, leadership of the Democrats and Republicans, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, all the major think tanks, most of TV's talking heads, the big corporations, egg-head academics, the entire power elite were united in favor of ripping you off more to prop up their failed ventures.

Don't look so sad, September 30, 2008 should be a new national holliday.

 

[guest301]

For now, we won. But Obama is reaping the rewards right now in the polls because of all this and so that tempers my rejoicing considerably. I hope Palin kicks ass Thursday night, get rid of her handlers and be herself. The bleeding in the polls needs to be stopped, a good performance by her would stop that especially with the low expectations the media has created for her. As far as the bailout is concerned, stay tuned, we won the battle but the war is still raging.

 

[Solomon Kane]

Unfortunately, they're not beaten yet. They intend to submit a similar bill tomorrow. Keep the pressure on.

 

[Rhodes1980]

I didn't catch that. I thought that it didn't go through?

 

[guest301]

Why not just insure the whole thing for 35 to 40 billion dollars and be done with it? Forget the 750 billion dollar bailout. This is a contrived election year crisis with a artificial needless timetable to force people who would otherwise know better to bailout these quasi-goverment businesses. It's a power grab by the goverment and just one more step towards socialism. What other industries will soon be nationalized, the auto industry, how about the airlines? I would prefer the businesses fail and people pay the price for the lousy investments they made and lose their homes. Some lessons need to be learned the hard way.

 

[jaxvid]

I would prefer the businesses fail and people pay the price for the lousy investments they made and lose their homes. Some lessons need to be learned the hard way.

I agree with you completely however from your comments above I don't think anyone's house is going to be saved. People will still lose their houses, the bailout is to protect the house loaners after they have already kicked out the people who couldn't pay. It's all about protecting the investors, not about saving anyone's home.

 

[guest301]

I would prefer the businesses fail and people pay the price for the lousy investments they made and lose their homes. Some lessons need to be learned the hard way.

I agree with you completely however from your comments above I don't think anyone's house is going to be saved. People will still lose their houses, the bailout is to protect the house loaners after they have already kicked out the people who couldn't pay. It's all about protecting the investors, not about saving anyone's home.

Jaxvid, you are probably right on that score. However, virtually every politician and pundit(especialy liberal ones)that I hear speak in favor of the bailout couches it in terms of saving people's homes, credit lines, and looking out for "Main Street and not Wall Street" and not just these investors. Maybe thats just crapola for the masses but that is what they are saying.

 

[Don Wassall]

A lot of people are not for the bailout but fear losing most or all of the assets they have worked their entire lives to accumulate. It's scare tactics by the establishment, but if the system fails a lot of people, especially older Americans, are going to lose everything. At the same time, I sense many people are so mad and fed up that they're saying go ahead the system is corrupt and deserves to fail and let's see where the chips fall.

 

[Bart]

A lot of people are not for the bailout but fear losing most or all of the assets they have worked their entire lives to accumulate.

Such a deal. We worked all our lives like dogs,for which the government taxed the hell out of us to throw it at blacks, and more recently browns. Our cities and school systemshave been been trashed, so we moved to the suburbs. Home values have gone sky high along with the property taxes, but we thought it wasn't too badbecausewehad some decent equity only to have the housing market implode. And now, our pensions, and retirement vehicles have been gutted. Nice, real nice.Oh, and the big boy bankers, and Wall Street hucksters are still living quite large.

 

[Menelik]

Twas a short lived victory::

Your Congress at Work

 

[PhillyBirds]

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

it shouldn't surprise anyone that the corrupt politicians (our elected, and supposed leaders) didn't listen to their voting public.

as Ron Paul said on the Glen Beck radio show on September 29, the situation had become so bad that the two possible outcomes were both bad. 1) not bailing them out would cause problems for at least a year before the market could sort itself out. and 2) bailing them out would cause problems for 10 years or more.

here's his interview with Glen: Part 1 and Part 2.

the future looks bleak.

 

[Don Wassall]

It still has to pass the House. There's still time to contact Members of the House and tell them to vote against it.

 

[SteveB]

The credit crunch is real and will be felt by everyone real soon. I have a wholesale business that sells and distributes outdoor sporting goods. My customers (retail sporting goods stores and independent stores) have sent me letters begging for longer term payment agreements because they cannot get credit to pay their bills. It won't be long before these businesses cut their payrolls because they can't pay their employees.

Unfortunately, the U.S. system of business works on credit. Retail stores buy their inventories on credit this year, for sale next year. If they can't get credit, then they can't put product on their shelves, which in turn leads to less sales next year, less employees, less expansion, etc. Even on the wholesale side, we have to have credit or investors available to order product from our manufacturers. It is a chain reaction that will reach every American in one way or another.

 

[jaxvid]

The credit crunch is real and will be felt by everyone real soon. I have a wholesale business that sells and distributes outdoor sporting goods. My customers (retail sporting goods stores and independent stores) have sent me letters begging for longer term payment agreements because they cannot get credit to pay their bills. It won't be long before these businesses cut their payrolls because they can't pay their employees.

Unfortunately, the U.S. system of business works on credit. Retail stores buy their inventories on credit this year, for sale next year. If they can't get credit, then they can't put product on their shelves, which in turn leads to less sales next year, less employees, less expansion, etc. Even on the wholesale side, we have to have credit or investors available to order product from our manufacturers. It is a chain reaction that will reach every American in one way or another.

Why is there a credit crunch? Isn't the credit of those stores just as good as before? You mean to tell me there is a shortage of people willing to lend money? Why? Especially if the market has fewer lenders now, then the existing lenders have a larger pool of customers. There are still plenty of banks and savings and loans and credit unions around, have they stopped lending money? and if so why?

 

[Menelik]

The credit crunch is real and will be felt by everyone real soon. I have a wholesale business that sells and distributes outdoor sporting goods. My customers (retail sporting goods stores and independent stores) have sent me letters begging for longer term payment agreements because they cannot get credit to pay their bills. It won't be long before these businesses cut their payrolls because they can't pay their employees.

Unfortunately, the U.S. system of business works on credit. Retail stores buy their inventories on credit this year, for sale next year. If they can't get credit, then they can't put product on their shelves, which in turn leads to less sales next year, less employees, less expansion, etc. Even on the wholesale side, we have to have credit or investors available to order product from our manufacturers. It is a chain reaction that will reach every American in one way or another.

Why is there a credit crunch? Isn't the credit of those stores just as good as before? You mean to tell me there is a shortage of people willing to lend money? Why? Especially if the market has fewer lenders now, then the existing lenders have a larger pool of customers. There are still plenty of banks and savings and loans and credit unions around, have they stopped lending money? and if so why?

Why is there a credit crunch?

 

[Bart]

Why is there a credit crunch? Isn't the credit of those stores just as good as before? You mean to tell me there is a shortage of people willing to lend money? Why? Especially if the market has fewer lenders now, then the existing lenders have a larger pool of customers. There are still plenty of banks and savings and loans and credit unions around, have they stopped lending money? and if so why?

I listened to some talk shows off and on during the last couple days, and many people have found that their banks have not stopped lending money -- if people meet basic requirements. Seems to me that a huge money grab, swindle, has once again taken place.


How do we really know the true state of affairs? Who isgoing to investigate the Federal Reserve andWall Street financial institutions?Check out the leading donors to both major parties andthe presidential candidates.Can you guess who arethe biggest contributors ? Goldman-Sachs and several of the money manipulators have their operatives firmly ensconced in all the right places.


I read a few articlessome time ago about the pentagon missing 1-2 trillion dollars. What has come of that situation?Unless the media makessomething an issue, it goes down the memory hole. We've got foxes in charge of theAmerican hen house.

 

[White Shogun]

Maybe the economy went 'south' to give Obama a boost.

 

[Charlie]

The bailout is positive. Within a few years Treasury (and taxpayers) will make money on the deal. This sort of intervention is part of the American tradition going back to Alexander Hamilton.

Treasury will buy high-end tranches of mortgage pools (low-end, higher yielding tranches were bought by hedge funds and foreigners, neither are covered by the plan) between par and zero. According to the world's foremost bond expert, Bill Gross, a granular analysis of a bond's value can be done in 15 minutes.

These bonds will pay 7 to 8% a year. As markets calm the bond values will rise from the current estimated 65 cents on the dollar. Unlike RTC holdings there are no issues with broken windows or clogged plumbing. Just a CUSIP number which investors buy and sell.

Black Rock and Bill Gross's Pimco are among the firms that will most likely administer the plan. Gross has offered his services for free.

The percentage of total bank assets these mortgages represent ranges from 1% for Bank of America to 4.6% for HSBC NA. They are neither as toxic or as common as generally believed.

It is useful to remember modern mortgages are not the creation of pure capitalism, but rather stem from the belief a man with a suburban yard to mow will not become a communist (or a fascist). Insisting on purity when it comes to modern markets makes little sense. Is Ron Paul also advocating 50% down payments as was the norm pre-WW2? Probably not.

The system we have is biased towards inflation, overproduction and overconsumption. And the alternative is what? Edited by: Charlie

 

[Solomon Kane]

Markets tanked Friday and Today. Despite their pro-bailout rhetoric, deep in their hearts and minds, the Street itself knows that this plan will do far more harm than good.

Batten down the hatches friends, this is a major economic storm.

Remember also that both parties support this massive government intervention.

Above all, let's free ourselves from the fantasy that the republican party is the party of economic freedom, market punishments for malinvestment, and decentralization.

Crony capitalism at its worst.

 

[Bart]

Traditionally October has been the worstmonth for the market. Many investors expect downturns,huge dips or even crashes. Perhaps November will be better.Then, we need to wrest power away from the Federal Reserve. We can authorize and print our own money. Why a middleman?