Red China & USA Facing Showdown?

DixieDestroyer

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We are certainly in debt to Red China up to our eyeballs (which never should have came to fruition IMO). Things certainly don't look good...

Is China's Politburo spoiling for a showdown with America?

The long-simmering clash between the world's two great powers is coming to a head, with dangerous implications for the international system.


By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 5:33PM GMT 14 Mar 2010

China has succumbed to hubris. It has mistaken the soft diplomacy of Barack Obama for weakness, mistaken the US credit crisis for decline, and mistaken its own mercantilist bubble for ascendancy. There are echoes of Anglo-German spats before the First World War, when Wilhelmine Berlin so badly misjudged the strategic balance of power and over-played its hand.

Within a month the US Treasury must rule whether China is a "currency manipulator", triggering sanctions under US law. This has been finessed before, but we are in a new world now with America's U6 unemployment at 16.8pc.

"It's going to be really hard for them yet again to fudge on the obvious fact that China is manipulating. Without a credible threat, we're not going to get anywhere," said Paul Krugman, this year's Nobel economist.

China's premier Wen Jiabao is defiant.

"I don't think the yuan is undervalued. We oppose countries pointing fingers at each other and even forcing a country to appreciate its currency," he said yesterday. Once again he demanded that the US takes "concrete steps to reassure investors" over the safety of US assets.

"Some say China has got more arrogant and tough. Some put forward the theory of China's so-called 'triumphalism'. My conscience is untainted despite slanders from outside," he said

Days earlier the State Council accused America of serial villainy. "In the US, civil and political rights of citizens are severely restricted and violated by the government. Workers' rights are seriously violated," it said.

"The US, with its strong military power, has pursued hegemony in the world, trampling upon the sovereignty of other countries and trespassing their human rights," it said.

"At a time when the world is suffering a serious human rights disaster caused by the US subprime crisis-induced global financial crisis, the US government revels in accusing other countries." And so forth.

Is the Politiburo smoking weed?

I let others discuss the rights and wrongs of this, itself a response to the US report card on China. Clearly, Beijing is in denial about is own part in the global imbalances behind the credit crisis, specifically by running structural trade surpluses, and driving down long rates through dollar and euro bond purchases. No doubt the West has made a hash of things, but the Chinese view of events is twisted to the point of delusional.

What interests me is Beijing's willingness to up the ante. It has vowed sanctions against any US firm that takes part in a $6.4bn weapons contract for Taiwan, a threat to ban Boeing from China and a new level of escalation in the Taiwan dispute.

In Copenhagen, Wen Jiabao sent an underling to negotiate with Mr Obama in what was intended to be - and taken to be - a humiliation. The US President put his foot down, saying: "I don't want to mess around with this anymore." That sums up White House feelings towards China today.

We have talked ourselves into believing that China is already a hyper-power. It may become one: it is not one yet. China is ringed by states - Japan, Korea, Vietnam, India - that are American allies when push comes to shove. It faces a prickly Russia on its 4,000km border, where Chinese migrants are itching for Lebensraum across the Amur. Emerging Asia, Brazil, Egypt and Europe are all irked by China's yuan-rigged export dumping.

Michael Pettis from Beijing University argues that China's reserves of $2.4 trillion - arguably $3 trillion - are a sign of weakness, not strength. Only twice before in modern history has a country amassed such a stash equal to 5pc-6pc of global GDP: the US in the 1920s, and Japan in the 1980s. Each time preceeded depression.

The reserves cannot be used internally to support China's economy. They are dead weight, beyond any level needed for macro-credibility. Indeed, they are the ultimate indictment of China's dysfunctional strategy, which is to buy $30bn to $40bn of foreign bonds every month to hold down the yuan, refusing to let the economy adjust to trade realities. The result is over-investment in plant, flooding the world with goods at wafer-thin export margins. China's over-capacity in steel is now greater than Europe's output.

This is catching up with China, in any case. Professor Victor Shuh from Northerwestern University warns that the 8,000 financing vehicles used by China's local governments to stretch credit limits have built up debts and commitments of $3.5 trillion, mostly linked to infrastructure. He says the banks may require a bail-out nearing half a trillion dollars.

As America's creditor - owner of some $1.4 trillion of US Treasuries, agency bonds, and US instruments - China can exert leverage. But this is not what it seems. If the Politburo deploys its illusiory power, Washington can pull the plug on China's export economy instantly by shutting markets. Who holds whom to ransom?

Any attempt to retaliate by triggering a US bond crisis would rebound against China, and could be stopped - in extremis - by capital controls. Roosevelt changed the rules in 1933. Such things happen. The China-US relationship is no doubt symbiotic, but a clash would not be "mutual assured destruction", as often claimed. Washington would win.

Contrary to myth, the slide to protectionism after the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act did not cause the Depression. Trade contracted more slowly in the 1930s than this time. The Smoot-Hawley lesson is that tariffs have asymmetrical effects. They devastate surplus countries: then America. Deficit Britain did well by retreating into Imperial Preference.

Barack Obama has never exalted free trade. This orthodoxy is, in any case, under threat in the West. His top economic adviser Larry Summers let drop in Davos that free-trade arguments no longer hold when dealing with "mercantilist" powers. Adam Smith recognized this too, despite efforts by free-trade ultras to appropriate him for their cause.

China's trasformation has been remarkable since Deng Xiaoping unleashed capitalism, but as ex-diplomat George Walden writes in China: a Wolf in the World? you cannot feel at ease with a regime that still covers up Mao's murderous nihilism. He reminds us too that China has never forgiven the humilations inflicted by the West when the two civilizations collided in the 19th Century, and intends to exact revenge. Handle with care.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7442926/Is-Chinas-Politburo-spoiling-for-a-showdown-with-America.html
 

Colonel_Reb

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Interesting article, especially the part about massive reserves preceding depression. Still, our financial condition and our spending habits are scary.
 

guest301

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China is our greatest enemy financially and maybe even militarily, I have long believed that. We have a treaty with our friend and ally Taiwan to defend them from any Chinese invasion, I doubt very much that Obama would honor that treaty and not sure we could stop the Chinese in any type of conventional war with the sheer overwhelming numbers the Chinese could throw at us and their growing navy and air force to augment any likely future invasion of Taiwan.
 

FootballDad

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Be sure to read this in the context ofour governmentadding a few more trillion $$ to our debt, and to the stranglehold that China will really exert on our economy after that. No reason that we couldn't start to balance our budget starting today.
 

Paleocon

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China has put themselves in a tough spot. Not as bad as us, but still not great. Essentially their growth is funded by our debt. Neither China or the U.S. seems to know how to extricate themselves painlessly from the impending collapse. Likely China will try to convert its surplus of dollars into tangible assets around the world as it weens itself off of U.S. debt. Our only option is to dismantle major parts of the federal government (more than half of it is unconstitutional anyway) and reduce our foreign military presence (no more neo-con adventures and military bases all over the world). Essentially we have to start generating significant surplus revenue to begin paying off our debt to keep our creditors from bailing or calling due.
 

FootballDad

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And that's just a start. If we completely shut down the military, furloughed all military personnel, and also stopped all social security payments for the rest of the year, we STILL would have a deficit, so ridiculously out of balance our budget is with these free-spending politicians.
 

Don Wassall

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The U.S. has built up China economically and militarily, the same way the Soviet Union was greatly helped from its inception by certain forces. The Clinton administration in particular transferred all kinds of military technology to China. There was a lot of very shady dealing going on between the White House and China but the media chose to focus only on Monica Lewinsky.

Letting China assume our industrial base was unconscionable. But now Washington gets mad at the Chineseif they don't behave the way we want. A main goal of current policy in the Middle East and Central Asia is to deny oil to China, at the same time Washington is encircling Russia militarily. The corporate media never looks at any issue other than from Washington's (often shifting) perspective.

It's the same old scenario -- build up a country and then turn onit as an "enemy," which in turn means even more goodies for a "defense" department that already spends more than the rest of the world combined on weapons. It's a very dangerous game being played by a government that is obsessed with ruling the world instead ofplacing the interestsof America and Americans first.Edited by: Don Wassall
 

Tom Iron

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Don,

There's an old book named "War is a Racket," written by Maj. General, Smedley Butler, USMC, recipient of two Medals of Honor, dealing with what you're talking about.

All this baloney has nothing to do with national defense and everything to do with contracts and inventory. We constantly need these imaginary adversaries.

Tom Iron...
 

Paleocon

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FootballDad said:
And that's just a start. If we completely shut down the military, furloughed all military personnel, and also stopped all social security payments for the rest of the year, we STILL would have a deficit, so ridiculously out of balance our budget is with these free-spending politicians.


I wrote a research paper a little less than two years ago and found that by applying a constitutional test to government agencies federal expenditures could be reduced nearly 50%. The Departments of Education, Energy, Health & Human Services, Homeland Security, and Housing & Urban Development would all be gone. All foreign aid would cease. The only military cuts were under the category of foreign military aid. I am guessing that only includes direct aid to foreign governments. Our overseas military presence is probably under another category that could be cut. Time prevented me from more detail on the subject and I am sure there would be more to cut with a line by line analysis of the budget. I wrote the paper to prove that it was possible to cover legitimate government costs without the individual income tax. I covered everything except the interest payments on the U.S. debt or about $400 billion at the time.
 

DixieDestroyer

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Tom Iron said:
Don,

There's an old book named "War is a Racket," written by Maj. General, Smedley Butler, USMC, recipient of two Medals of Honor, dealing with what you're talking about.

All this baloney has nothing to do with national defense and everything to do with contracts and inventory. We constantly need these imaginary adversaries.

Tom Iron...

Butler's book is a masterpiece on exposing the scam of (Globalist initiated) war. The Central Banking Cartel usually gains by funding both sides of the "war"...so the PTB benefits either way. When I hear these NeoCON'd sheeple yapping about how our troops are "defending our freedoms" in the Middle East, I have don't know whether to laugh, try and "de-program" them or just jackslap them upside the head. The middle east meat grinder is for sole benefit of the Globalist Elite and the Zionists. There's ZERO benefit to the American people and NO Constitutional reason to be there.
 
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