Possible blot on Braddock’s career...

White_Savage

Mentor
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
1,217
Location
Texas
"Dempsey was the Big Daddy" by Max Schmeling

Dempsey was the big daddy


By Max Schmeling

HAMBURG -- This century has provided many dramatic boxing matches and yielded even more unique heroes. Trying to name them all would be asking a little too much.

But my short list of those boxers who will never be forgotten includes -- in alphabetical order -- Mohammed Ali, Henry Armstrong, Georges Carpentier, Julio Cesar Chavez, George Foreman, Harry Greb, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Jack Johnson, Ray Leonard, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Carlos Monzon, Archie Moore, Willie Pep, Ray Robinson, and Mike Tyson.

But now I want to add, all by itself, one more name: Jack Dempsey.

Despite all the class shown by the others, Dempsey was not only my own idol, he remains for me to this day the greatest of them all.

He embodied the complete perfection of a professional boxer.

Jack, the ninth of 11 children of an impoverished family of Mormon itinerant workers in Colorado, welded brilliant technique and strategy with a stupendous punch like no other boxer.

His punches came packed with the full power of his entire shoulder span.

He was a nightmare of an opponent.

He hated sharing the ring with anybody else.

He appeared to be a fist-fighter from another planet.

It was no coincidence that they called him the 'man killer'.

Writer Joyce Carol Oates in her famous essay 'On Boxing' was right on target when she said that Dempsey's style of fighting -- fast, direct, and merciless -- has forever put its stamp on the sport of boxing in America, and not only there.

She is also not wrong when she says that today's boxing matches, compared with those of Dempsey's, appear to be harmless minuets.

We never faced each other in a prize fight. Jack's seven-year era as heavyweight world champion ended almost four years before mine began.

Still, we did box twice against each other.

The first time was in 1925, when he was on his honeymoon trip in Europe and made a stop in Cologne where he gave a sampling of his boxing know-how to a few thousand spectators in the city's Luna Park.

I was one of three Cologne boxers who were chosen to go two rounds against him.

The second time was certainly different, coming in May 1933 in New York, when he visited me in training camp four weeks before my fight against Max Baer and wanted to spar with me.

In the first round I landed my right directly in the middle of his nose, which had been operated on, and he quit right there.

By no means do I mean to overglorify him or above all the first half of this century of boxing.

But the fact is that our fights back then were definitely much tougher, much more brutal.

I was still boxing with only four- and five-ounce gloves, and after two rounds they were mostly already torn apart, with only a few patches of tough leather covering my knuckles. The punches were extremely painful.

Back then, there were also only eight weight categories, in which there was, logically, only a single world champion.

It was extremely difficult to box your way to the top.

This is not meant in the slightest to dismiss later achievements, for example those by Mohammed Ali.

It was especially thanks to him that boxing battles gained a new seal of quality.

The heavyweight division will always exert a magical attraction, it is simply in the nature of things.

Still, I must honestly say that for years now I have no longer attended a match and only rarely do I watch a fight on television.

This is because usually everybody knows beforehand who is going to win.

There was in my time, when already the purses were going into the millions, certainly some amount of behind-the-scenes deal-making going on -- and it was not always fair, as I found out for myself on June 8, 1937.

I had already been weighed in, but title defender Jimmy Braddock, against whom I had wanted to become the first boxer to break through the 'they-never-come-back' law, did not appear.

He was then suspended by the New York boxing authority and slapped with a ludicrous fine of a mere $1000.

As it later became evident, this was all a fixed deal.

For Braddock, who was supposedly ill, had already long earlier signed another contract for a title bout against Joe Louis.

The fight took place a few weeks later.

The clincher was a secret clause in which Braddock was guaranteed 10 percent of all his opponent's earnings for the next 10 years.

For the benefit and for the credibility of boxing I would hope that the new century will see a harkening back to the past times -- when there was only one association and only one champion per weight category. It would additionally be nice if a German heavyweight would finally follow in my footsteps.

Let the fight begin!

MAX SCHMELING was born September 28, 1905 in Klein Luckow, Germany. He entered boxing history with his world championship victory in 1930 over Jack Sharkey and with his sensational knockout of Joe Louis in 1936. Schmeling ended his career in 1948 and remains an idol in Germany and a legend in the world of sports, a man who embodies the image of the 'honest guy'. Schmeling today lives in Hollenstedt, near Hamburg. -- Sapa-DP
 
G

Guest

Guest
Old news that article did'nt say anything that was'nt common knowledge in boxing.


Schmelling was shafted but got his chance to fight for the title again against Joe Louis and we all know how that ended.
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
Dempsey was better then Louis or Schmelling.Louis drank coke at the USO during the war and ducked combat.Schmelling was a German paratrooper and saw action.Dempsey was getting to be an old man and was in the Coast Guard in the Pacific during WW2.Louis last fight was against Marciano and we all know how that ended.
smiley32.gif
 
G

Guest

Guest
Gary said:
Dempsey was better then Louis or Schmelling.Louis drank coke at the USO during the war and ducked combat.Schmelling was a German paratrooper and saw action.Dempsey was getting to be an old man and was in the Coast Guard in the Pacific during WW2.Louis last fight was against Marciano and we all know how that ended.
smiley32.gif
Schmelling yes Louis No . Interesting fight though Dempsey might win early but the longer it goes the more the fight Favors Louis. I give Louis a 60 % chance to win with Dempey a game under dog with a real chance to pull the minor upset.


And Fairy you know that Dempsey was a war slacker during WW 1 right ?.


And that the only action Schmelling saw was being wounded in a parachutre drop and being captured . And that Schmelling was sent to the frontlines by hitler because of the embarrasement for the Nazi party when Schmelling was destroyed by Louis right ?.


Louis last fight at age 37 ! was against Marciano and we know how that ended but offcourse fighters are still in their prime at age 37 right ?
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
Dempsey Ko's Louis early,Louis didn't have the chin to beat Dempsey.Dempsey was cleared of slacker charges because he worked the shipyards during WW1.Marciano would have beat Louis at any age.Schemlling saw action-Louis didn't-period.So nothing has changed pignuts your still a loser!!!
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
Schmeling was wounded several times during combat.Louis should get a purple heart for the cavities he got drinking coke.Dempsey and Schmeling both outlived Louis and both had more money.Marcaino paid Joe Louis medical bills while Louis was in the mental ward.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Gary said:
Dempsey Ko's Louis early,Louis didn't have the chin to beat Dempsey.Dempsey was cleared of slacker charges because he worked the shipyards during WW1.Marciano would have beat Louis at any age.Schemlling saw action-Louis didn't-period.So nothing has changed pignuts your still a loser!!!
Dempsey never worked the shipyards you idiot thetre where pics of Dempsey ''manfully'' working in the shipyards . But an observant photographer noticed that Dempsey was not wearing work shoes but expensive shoes. Meaning Dempsey just had those pics made to receive good publicity it backfired on him. Dempseynever did any real work at the shipyards. Youhave just beaten you r own argument Dempsey did no morethen Louis did during the war.


Louis beats Dempsey and Louis chin was not as bad as the legends say and unlike Dempsey Louis was never KOD in 1 round .


Prime Louis beats prime Marciano.Edited by: fistfighter
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,583
Location
Pennsylvania
Geez man, don't you have a job or anything else going on in your life besides posting all day long on a site you don't even like?
 

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
13,987
Location
The Deep South
Prime Louis beats Prime Marciano... OK, let me get this straight, in 1969 scientists did a computer simulation of Marciano fighting Clay, both based on what they could do in their primes, and Marciano won in the 13'th round. Accepting this as possible, Louis would have to be better than Clay to have beaten Marciano in his prime.

Just another tibit you might enjoy is the eyewitness accounts telling of when the filming for the 1969 computer fight was done, how Rocky doubled Clay over with a body shot after Clay made the 46 year old Marciano mad by knocking off his wig. If he could do that at 46, imagine what he could have done to him in his prime, in real life!
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
Pignuts-I see your spelling hasn't improved-what is your IQ about 19
smiley36.gif
Now lets talk slackers-none of these clowns were ever in the military-Jack Johnson,Floyd Patterson,Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier,Cassius Clay{draft dodger]Larry Holmes,Mike Tyson,George Foreman!Dempsey WAS IN WW2! OF these slackers I mentioned a few were in prison-Riddick Bowe was in the Marines[for 5 days].What a bunch of punks and slackers.What did Tyson do when McBride pushed him down-he QUIT LIKE A PUNK!!!
smiley19.gif
 

Sean

Mentor
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
670
Marciano would beat Louis every time!


Louis got knocked down by almost everybody. He got up again, but he never got belted down by a guy with Rocky's power. Rocky's chin was too tough for Joe to crack, and his power and AWESOME stamina would prove too much for Joe.


And while we're giving interesting little tidbits, here's one for you all:


(I'm assuming you all know who Pat Miletich is. He's an MMA fighter known as the Croation Sensation. Pretty good, 28-6-2.) Pat Miletich had a great uncle by the name of John. John was 6'1 about 185, close to the size of Marciano (a little taller). Anyway, John was a boxer, but didn't want his mom to know, so he fought under the name Johnny Miler. As a pro, Johhny didn't have much of a career, going 6-11, with losses to Maxie Rosenbloom and Johnny Paycheck. But, when he was an amateur, he fought Joe Louis, and in three rounds he knocked Joe down SEVEN TIMES!


Just thought that was a little bit interesting.
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
fistfighter said:
Louis beats Dempsey and Louis chin was not as bad as the legends say and unlike Dempsey Louis was never KOD in 1 round .Prime Louis beats prime Marciano.


Did Louis have a strong or weak chin? He was put on rubber leg street and knocked to the canvas several times by the likes of Jersey Joe Walcot, Buddy Baer, Max Schmelling, Jimmy Braddock, and even Two Ton Tony Galento and possibly others. How many times did Marciano hit the canvass? Once I believe but he got up immediately being unfazed.


Read about Two Ton Tony and his training methods and ask yourself, how in the heck did this guy hurt Louis in the first round and knock him to the canvass a few rounds later? If Rocky Marciano was sent to thedeck by a fat, saloon keeping brawlerlike Tony, we would still be reading about it.Fabulous article about Tony and his training methods.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Galento


Billy Conn, was a light heavyweight Irish kid who gave Louis ( in his prime) the boxing lesson of his life for twelve or thirteen rounds.Conn only weighed 169 lbs. and Louis had 30 lbs. on him! Billy had the fight won on points and all he had to do was keep away from Joe to win the title.He was feeling his oats and decided to slug it out with the much bigger man, against the advice of his corner. Bad move, he got caught , went down, though nearly saved by the bell. It would have been the biggest upset in history.Edited by: Bart
 

Gary

Mentor
Joined
Dec 28, 2004
Messages
1,050
Conn was outboxing Louis,forget Dempsey of course he would beat Louis.But Tunney was bigger,faster,stronger and better then Conn.Tunney would have an easy time against Louis.Jim Jeffries and Rocky Marcaino would also beat the slacker who ducked combat[Louis].
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
For you hardcore fight fans who like colorful characters, a great article about Two Ton Tony. I would hate to meet him in a dark alley. http://www.fightbeat.com/garfields/galento.php


Louis told me, "Really, I got to like the son-of-a-bitch. He had something these guys lack today -- charisma. He could have taken most of these fighters today and would have been a millionaire ten times over. He was either born too soon or too late. He was a throw back to John L. Sullivan. He would have been a great bare-knuckle fighter. The man was absolutely fearless."
 

White_Savage

Mentor
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
1,217
Location
Texas
The idea of ANY fighter we've seen so far beating Rocky Marciano is at best, a distant possibility. Only on a cut stoppage, or if it went the distance, points, but 88% of the Rock's opponents proved unable to go the distance. The man was like a freak of nature in his chin and power, and like a Hero of Old in his heart and detirmination. Saying "XYZ" could outbox him doensn't mean anything, since EVERYBODY he fought could outbox him. I can box better than an 800 lbs. gorilla, but the fight is likely to go to the primate. Joe Louis said he couldn't have beat Rocky in his prime, and Joe Louis was far superior to any of the black champions who came after him. Old man Marciano put Ali on the canvass when he got riled during the filming of their computer fight.
 

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
13,987
Location
The Deep South
Looks like fits-fighter got KO'd on this thread by a short Marciano right hand, the kind that won him the Championship over Jersey Joe Walcott in 1952!
smiley36.gif
 
Top