North Carolinas' Amendment 1

[El Whitey]

"It sounds as though you think your opinion is right all the time or why else would you insist on smartening up as you put it."

It's not about me being right. My opinion is that I don't care if it goes on. You are the one taking a pro-active stance. You're the one with the burden of proof of why gays getting marriage is wrong. Basically, you are making a theological argument against gay marriage based on the teachings of Jesus. I've already discredited Jesus as any kind of divine visionary, and took even further in asking you why you as a Euro heritage having white American worship a 2000 year old middle eastern dirt monkey who couldn't even see the immorality of making young boys eunuchs, and you have no answers.

The other argument appears to be that allowing gays to marry will cause society to regress and collapse. Nobody in here has brought up even 1 ancient civilization that collapsed for allowing gays to marriage. Again, no evidence. Jaxvid even admits gayness is "rare," and yet thinks they're a powerful enough group that the fate of American civilization depends on whether or not they procreate.

"Ideas to prevail? Again, the arrogance to think of ideas prevailing."

What? Thats like saying speech is arrogant. Voting is arrogant.

"I don't consider my ideas are for everyone and they're not my ideas in the first place."

They're not your ideas? Then that is an admittance your thoughts are not your own. So who is thinking for you on the matter?

"Think about what you are saying. It's all I, me, my, you're basing everything you say, on YOU. It's not all about you brother."

You're right, friend. It's not about me. Nor is it about you. I know you think that you're protecting society, and trying to shield your kids from being gay, but trust me on this one, if you're kids are not gay, no amount of gay tolerating media is going to change that. And if your kids are gay, they're already gay and there isn't anything you can do about it. I'm not saying you have to like it, don't mistake that. I'm saying you aren't going to change it.

 

[Carolina Speed]

"It sounds as though you think your opinion is right all the time or why else would you insist on smartening up as you put it."

It's not about me being right. My opinion is that I don't care if it goes on. You are the one taking a pro-active stance. You're the one with the burden of proof of why gays getting marriage is wrong. Basically, you are making a theological argument against gay marriage based on the teachings of Jesus. I've already discredited Jesus as any kind of divine visionary, and took even further in asking you why you as a Euro heritage having white American worship a 2000 year old middle eastern dirt monkey who couldn't even see the immorality of making young boys eunuchs, and you have no answers.

The other argument appears to be that allowing gays to marry will cause society to regress and collapse. Nobody in here has brought up even 1 ancient civilization that collapsed for allowing gays to marriage. Again, no evidence. Jaxvid even admits gayness is "rare," and yet thinks they're a powerful enough group that the fate of American civilization depends on whether or not they procreate.

"Ideas to prevail? Again, the arrogance to think of ideas prevailing."

What? Thats like saying speech is arrogant. Voting is arrogant.

"I don't consider my ideas are for everyone and they're not my ideas in the first place."

They're not your ideas? Then that is an admittance your thoughts are not your own. So who is thinking for you on the matter?

"Think about what you are saying. It's all I, me, my, you're basing everything you say, on YOU. It's not all about you brother."

You're right, friend. It's not about me. Nor is it about you. I know you think that you're protecting society, and trying to shield your kids from being gay, but trust me on this one, if you're kids are not gay, no amount of gay tolerating media is going to change that. And if your kids are gay, they're already gay and there isn't anything you can do about it. I'm not saying you have to like it, don't mistake that. I'm saying you aren't going to change it.

Let's take Jesus out of it for a second.

You see this why you and I will never agree, because I believe in a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things you don't. You said you don't care what goes on. I do care. I can't do anything about it(homosexuality), but I can say it's wrong and speak out against it.

I care if I'm wrong about something(and that's alot). Unlike you, I'm willing to learn, but I will never change my stance on it being OK for men being with men and women being with women.

I do have my own thoughts, but I'm guided by my faith in Jesus that tells me being homosexual is wrong. Like incest is wrong, being a thief is wrong, like being a rapist wrong, etc. there are moral absolutes whether you believe it or not. Do you need Jesus to tell you murdering someone is wrong? Where do you get your reasoning? From yourself?

Yes. you're guided by yourself (totally). I'm not, because I know that I can be wrong and I need guidance. You're not ready to admit that about yourself.

I guess if my son wants to rape his sister and then rob a bank, I should say, well it's just going to happen whether I like it or not. No, we should teach our kids right from wrong.

That's extreme, but try to understand?

As I keep trying to tell you, the homosexual movement will not stop at consenting adults. It has seaped into our schools.

If you knew what went on in some countries and what they are doing with children and no one stopping it, it would make you sick, maybe, or maybe you just don't care, as you said.

I guess you believe you're born gay, but I'm not so sure. But even if a person is born gay, I don't think they should act on those tendancies. We are all born with flaws, the Bible calls it sin, but that doesn't mean we always have to act on those flawed tendancies. Does it?

 

[jaxvid]

I guess you believe you're born gay, but I'm not so sure. But even if a person is born gay, I don't think they should act on those tendancies. We are all born with flaws, the Bible calls it sin, but that doesn't mean we always have to act on those flawed tendancies. Does it?

Yes that always seemed a weak moral argument to make, the "they are born that way so what can you do?" Pedophiles are born that way, alcoholics are born that way, psychopaths are born that way, what can you do?

Well, in some cases you can prohibit and punish, in others discourage and shame, but there is no reason to completely tolerate the behavior of others that you find immoral or offensive. The excuse to do nothing is a surrender or else used by supporters to sway peoples courage to resist.

And to answer Whiteys question about what societies have failed because of homosexuality I would say the Roman Empire and Wermacht Germany come to mind, not that homosexuality was the primary cause but, like in modern amerikka, a sign of the breakdown of morality into perversion and decadence.

 

[El Whitey]

"I can't do anything about it(homosexuality), but I can say it's wrong and speak out against it."

You're more than within your right to an opinion and to voice it, CS. But you should be able to defend your opinion with logic, reason and evidence. Defending your absolute opinion with faith means you're taking an absolute position and admitting you have no logic, reason, and evidence. You only have faith that you're right, and you have an absolute position. That is quite a leap to take, don't you think?

"I care if I'm wrong about something(and that's alot). Unlike you, I'm willing to learn, but I will never change my stance on it being OK for men being with men and women being with women."

Brother, I've been wrong before about things too. Thats ok. I keep an open mind and if I'm presented with evidence that warrants me to change my position, I will. Ego doesn't get us anywhere.

"there are moral absolutes whether you believe it or not. Do you need Jesus to tell you murdering someone is wrong? Where do you get your reasoning? From yourself?"

No, I don't need Jesus to tell me murder is immoral. There were far more advanced and educated societies before Jeses was born that frowned upon murder. They didn't need divine permission to figure that one out. Can you honestly tell me if it weren't for Jesus, you would see nothing wrong with murder? You're a smart guy, CS. Can you not distinguish between social and anti-social behavior on your own? I mean, "don't murder" might have counted as divine guidance in the illiterate backwards parts of the middle east 2000 years ago, but is that brilliant moral philosophy in 2012?

"Yes. you're guided by yourself (totally)."

I'm guided partly by myself yes. I like to think that I think for myself. But I'm heavily influenced by people I'll admit are more studied that I am.

"I guess if my son wants to rape his sister and then rob a bank, I should say, well it's just going to happen whether I like it or not. No, we should teach our kids right from wrong."

Yeah I agree. But the difference is there is very good REASON why one shouldn't rape and rob.

"As I keep trying to tell you, the homosexual movement will not stop at consenting adults. It has seaped into our schools."

I object to homosexual lifestyles being TAUGHT in public schools. We have court systems to fight these things when it happens. It would not be the first or last time someone elses morals intruded on you or me on pulic property.

"If you knew what went on in some countries and what they are doing with children and no one stopping it, it would make you sick, maybe, or maybe you just don't care, as you said."

I'm not a nihilist, CS. That means I believe in some things. I believe in civil law, civil rights, and human rights, and the basic right to pursue happiness so long as you do not harm, or threaten to harm another. Speaking of crimes against children, Exodus 21:7, "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do." Selling your own daughter. Condoned in the bible. What's your opinion on that, CS? Is selling your daughter into slavery ok with you?

"But even if a person is born gay, I don't think they should act on those tendancies. We are all born with flaws, the Bible calls it sin, but that doesn't mean we always have to act on those flawed tendancies. Does it?"

Yes, god creates us ill and commands us to be well. And if we fail, we go to hell. What kind of sick game is he playing? Are you at all disappointed that this is the dynamic we are forced to live in? I think it sucks, frankly.

Hypothetically, imagine if god had made it to where procreation only happened through homosexuality, and that was the way to go. And there you are, CS, strongly attracted to women. Imagine being expected to supress your urges for your whole life, and NEVER sleep with a woman. Imagine most women not even wanting to sleep with you because they're homosexuals. You can't even think about a woman while beating off, because god will know it. It's not like fighting the urge to swipe a candy bar from the store. You have sexual impulses bombarding you 24 hours a day telling you to do something god said not to. What a tortured life. Of course they're born that way. Who would choose such a life for themselves?! Thats why I cut the poor souls a little slack, bro. Your god is not going to send you to hell for simply leaving them to themselves, is he? Thats all I'm saying.

 

[El Whitey]

"Pedophiles are born that way, alcoholics are born that way, psychopaths are born that way, what can you do?"

Pedophiles and psychopaths tend to hurt other people. I've clearly defined that intruding on the life and rights of another as the line numerous times. Alcohlics ARE born with a genetic susceptibility to becoming addicted to alchohol, according to research.

"Well, in some cases you can prohibit and punish, in others discourage and shame, but there is no reason to completely tolerate the behavior of others that you find immoral or offensive."

Thats absurd. You need to tolerate what any tax paying citizen does in the privacy of the residence which they own so long as they commit no crime againt another. If you don't like that, then you won't mind when the government butts its nose into your house over someting, will you? What if I find cigarette smoking offensive and you're doing it in your own home? Do I have the right to make you stop?

"the Roman Empire and Wermacht Germany come to mind, not that homosexuality was the primary cause but, like in modern amerikka, a sign of the breakdown of morality into perversion and decadence."

I don't know much off hand about Wermacht Germany. But the Roman Empire, despite the adoption of christian morals, collapsed in large part due to mass amounts of immigrants who neither wanted nor respected the Roman identity. Please do show me some evidence that some kind of law or policy regarding gays in the Roman Empire changed, and that it correlated with the decline.

 

[JReb1]

I don't care who a person sleeps with but I KNOW for a fact "gay marriage" isn't the end, it's only a beginning. The next step once it's legalized is to FORCE churches into marrying people that they view as immoral and then suing them when they wont for civil "rights" violations. Then gay ministers, reverends will also sue for discrimination.

I'm agnostic but I don't want to see Christian values destroyed because with it goes the West...

 

[Colonel_Reb]

A lot of effort has been wasted in this thread. IMHO, it looks like a good candidate for deletion.

 

[Woody]

Cannot believe I just read most of that (skipping most of El Whitey's long "bro" blurbs of course).

All the shots at Catholics and the Pope were really appreciated, dude-man-bro.

El Whitey, I'm sorry but the whole writing-arguments-on-the-internet thing is not your friend.
Yes I know that's an ad hominem. No, I don't care.

I don't think anyone really made a complete and sound argument against whatever he was positing but I don't blame you I don't have the energy either.

(But yes, I can. Just take my word for it....)

 

[El Whitey]

"The next step once it's legalized is to FORCE churches into marrying people that they view as immoral and then suing them when they wont for civil "rights" violations. Then gay ministers, reverends will also sue for discrimination."

That would be a violation of the 1st amendment, which separates church and state. Not going to happen. Gay people don't need a church to get married anyway. All you need is a courthouse.

"I'm agnostic but I don't want to see Christian values destroyed because with it goes the West..."

The US is the center of western civilization and it is an officially secular country, as are many western countries. And that is a good thing. It's a good thing because it means I as a white man don't have to bow down to a religion started by a bronze age sand monkey known as jesus, or mohammed or any other middle eastern crap. And that is because Jefferson, and other great white American heroes knew religion didn't belong in law.​

 

[El Whitey]

"All the shots at Catholics and the Pope were really appreciated, dude-man-bro."

Good, I hope you learned something.

I couldn't make any sense out of the rest of your post. Sorry.
​

 

[Menelik]

A lot of effort has been wasted in this thread. IMHO, it looks like a good candidate for deletion.

AMEN!

 

[Don Wassall]

It's time to lock it, and then forget it.