NBA teams can't sell out arenas, even after giving away free tickets

[Don Wassall]

In Kansas City, Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium (for the Chiefs and Royals, respectively) are essentially still the stadiums built 40 years ago. Of course, the taxpayers were fleeced with a sales tax stipend to pay for renovations over the last 5 years, but it's still far better (and cheaper) than building new stadiums. But not everything is perfect, Kansas City (Jackson County) taxpayers are stuck with the bill for the fabulous Sprint Center in downtown KC that has no tenants.

Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh was opened in 1970 at a (supposed) cost of $30 million. But because of interest due on bonds and other taxpayer fleecing arrangements it was never paid off. In fact, in the late 1990s there was still more money due in interest than what it cost to build. It was imploded about a decade ago.

All of those nearly identical style round stadiums built in the late '60s to early '70s (in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Cincinnati and St. Louis) were quickly decried as outmoded and were all replaced in record time. In another decade or so we'll be hearing the same about the "old-fashioned" trend of baseball stadiums that started with Camden Yards in Baltimore (not enough seats or some other contrived problems).

 

[Wolverine91]

What the hell is keeping the NBA alive? Virtually no one cares. I assume that player and coach's salaries have declined or at least stagnated. Does anyone have data on that?

The teams from the article suck. No one wants to pay to watch the Pistons, Bucks, or Bobcats. They're the NBA equivalent of the Coyotes, Islanders, and Blue Jackets.

As far as the other teams, the league is booming. It's on tap to make over $5 billion this year. That's 50% more than the NHL's best year of $3.3 billion.

The current ESPN/TNT deal pays $930 million a year, and is going to double over the next few years. The NHL's NBC deal is $200 million a year.

The values of the franchises are up 30% this year. They're worth $509 million on average, with 26 being worth more than $350 million. The NHL average is $283 million, with only 3 teams worth more than $350 million.

The NBA Finals, featuring teams from 8th and 43rd largest metro areas, averaged 17 million viewers. The NHL Finals, featuring teams from the 1st and 2nd largest metro areas, averaged 3 million viewers.

You can't even compare the two entities.

 

[celticdb15]

The teams from the article suck. No one wants to pay to watch the Pistons, Bucks, or Bobcats. They're the NBA equivalent of the Coyotes, Islanders, and Blue Jackets.

As far as the other teams, the league is booming. It's on tap to make over $5 billion this year. That's 50% more than the NHL's best year of $3.3 billion.

The current ESPN/TNT deal pays $930 million a year, and is going to double over the next few years. The NHL's NBC deal is $200 million a year.

The values of the franchises are up 30% this year. They're worth $509 million on average, with 26 being worth more than $350 million. The NHL average is $283 million, with only 3 teams worth more than $350 million.

The NBA Finals, featuring teams from 8th and 43rd largest metro areas, averaged 17 million viewers. The NHL Finals, featuring teams from the 1st and 2nd largest metro areas, averaged 3 million viewers.

You can't even compare the two entities.

Ya basically ESPN is carrying the NBA right now. Interesting as to why they refuse to broadcast hockey games? Also the Bucks are having one of their best seasons in years and if the playoffs were to start today they would be the 7th seed.

 

[jaxvid]

The teams from the article suck. No one wants to pay to watch the Pistons, Bucks, or Bobcats. They're the NBA equivalent of the Coyotes, Islanders, and Blue Jackets.

As far as the other teams, the league is booming. It's on tap to make over $5 billion this year. That's 50% more than the NHL's best year of $3.3 billion.

The current ESPN/TNT deal pays $930 million a year, and is going to double over the next few years. The NHL's NBC deal is $200 million a year.

The values of the franchises are up 30% this year. They're worth $509 million on average, with 26 being worth more than $350 million. The NHL average is $283 million, with only 3 teams worth more than $350 million.

The NBA Finals, featuring teams from 8th and 43rd largest metro areas, averaged 17 million viewers. The NHL Finals, featuring teams from the 1st and 2nd largest metro areas, averaged 3 million viewers.

You can't even compare the two entities.

You must be a Walmart Wolverine because someone that went to the actual university should have better logic skills. Or maybe not considering that university is at the forefront of all affirmative action briefs to the Supreme Court.

We have said that ESPN is propping up the NBA. And what do you reply? That the NBA is making more money and then you show why--ESPN contract. You then say the NBA has better TV viewership--and why is that? The sports TV behemouth that is ESPN, shown in every bar, airport, and prison in the US. Probably good for some TV ratings don't you think?

You probably think that women's basketball is more popular then the NHL because ESPN, the NBA, Fox sports, and all of cultural marxist america is pushing it 24-7 and forcing it onto TV schedules.

However who cares if the NBA is making more money, Obama got elected too, neither one proves anything other then we live in a cesspool of a society.

 

[frederic38]

As far as the other teams, the league is booming.

i would say that NBA boomed during jordan's era
there was this movie "space jam" with jordan which went in theaters worldwide, with toons in it
it was quite popular
i had toys from that movie:

but i didn't know about NBA or jordan either

right now they wouldn't do a movie about a basketball player and it wouldn't be as popular as it was back then

 

[Matra2]

There's a debate about this topic, including ethnic demographics, going on at the hockey HF Boards forum (Business of Hockey section "Will the NHL ever surpass the NBA"). I don't want to link it as the moderators seem to be on the lookout for this stuff.

 

[Tannehill17]

There's a debate about this topic, including ethnic demographics, going on at the hockey HF Boards forum (Business of Hockey section "Will the NHL ever surpass the NBA"). I don't want to link it as the moderators seem to be on the lookout for this stuff.

I've been reading that thread on that site and there have definitely been some interesting replies. Of course there is the DWF mentality that we (as hockey people) need to do is get more minorities involved with the game. I feel like replying to some of these idiots by saying "yeah, the blacks can have basketball but God forbid we whites have anything to ourselves"

But the real reason the NBA dwarfs the NHL in overall popularity is simply because of marketing and huge TV contracts. The NHL has a smaller, but definitely more die-hard fanbase where as the NBA draws more of a casual audience. Here in Miami (there I go again) the Panthers maintained a steady (albeit small at times as the team went over a decade without making the playoffs) fanbase of quite a few diehards. I would run into a lot of these people at the games as I attend about 10 or so of them every season. When the Miami Heat were winning championships in 2006 and last year with LeBron at the helm, the place was packed, but during those few years after 2006 when Shaq was traded and the team absolutely SUCKED, you couldn't give Heat tickets away and that arena was a ghost town. In other words, the NBA is a bandwagon sport and the only teams who draw are the 6-10 teams that are worth a s**t during any given season. However that is not how they make their money, they make their money through their ridiculously absurd TV contract. If not for that contract, the NBA would rival the Nathans Hot Dog Eating Contest in terms of recognizability

 

[jerseypinebarrens]

I don't really care how big hockey grows, I just want it to be stable, with a consistant amount of growth and that it's profitable. NASCAR puts up huge numbers and I don't think I've ever seen a race. The nba is unwatchable and I use to watch it all the time when I was a kid.

 

[Tannehill17]

I don't really care how big hockey grows, I just want it to be stable, with a consistant amount of growth and that it's profitable. NASCAR puts up huge numbers and I don't think I've ever seen a race. The nba is unwatchable and I use to watch it all the time when I was a kid.

Thats pretty much how I feel. All I want is a stable league (which is why I supported the owners during the lockout) and a stable team here in South Florida. As long as we have those two things I'm good. I could care less about ESPN or their TV contract with the NBA since I never watch either one of them anyway. I have the NHL Network and the Center Ice Package. Thats more than enough to hold me over.

 

[Liverlips]

Besides the BSPN contract and corporate welfare, don't forget the NBA has a built-in audience - blacks. These are people willing to pay money to watch games and buy merchandise.

Not all whites like hockey - and it is hard to get exposed to the game unless you are in Canada.

 

[Tannehill17]

Besides the BSPN contract and corporate welfare, don't forget the NBA has a built-in audience - blacks. These are people willing to pay money to watch games and buy merchandise.

Blacks aren't the ones attending games. 95% of the people I see at NBA games are DWF's. Blacks may watch the games at home but they're too busy spending their money on the latest 'Air-Jordans' [video=youtube;7Eal16UJMP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Eal16UJMP0[/video]

 

[Gibbon]

There seem to be conflicting reports out there regarding the NBA's popularity. Apparently the mid 2000s saw a significant drop off but then it started to come back some around 2010. Growth and potential growth being attributed to international interest (which in my view, is sustainable only so long as it is believed Americans give a sh*t. After all, it's an imitative phenomena.) Though it is also attributable to interest among younger audiences, who in America, as elsewhere, are increasingly non-white. As pointed out in this thread, attendees/game ticket purchasers are disproportionately white, and seem (anecdotally) to be casual fans, many attending through corporate block seating purchases. One article, linked below, maintains that the popularity is there, but not the profitability. These articles date between 2010-2013:

http://thesportseconomist.com/2011/02/24/racism-behind-lack-of-nba-interest/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/638033-declination-of-the-nba-thank-lebron-james-and-company

http://www.helium.com/items/2006800-nba-popularity-decline

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-real-reason-the-nba-is-losing-fans-2011-2


“Even with no NBA lockout, the NHL's popularity was on the rise, and the line between the popularity of the NBA and NHL is closer than I — and most — would guess. A recent Harris poll showed the decline of the NBA's popularity since 1998, when 13 percent of those surveyed said "pro basketball" was their favorite sport.
But Commissioner David Stern's baby never recovered after Michael Jordan's retirement and the partial season lockout, with now just 6 percent of those surveyed saying the same thing in 2010. In the same 2010 poll, hockey sits at 5 percent."

Popular but loosing money:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/35022711

 

[Matra2]

There's no doubt the NBA is bigger than the NHL, as the latter skews regionally, but in North America as a whole the gap is not as great as TV ratings indicate. First of all, only a few teams in the NBA do well when on TV. A lot of teams like Charlotte and Utah will cause millions to reach for their remotes. Secondly, if you include Canada it gets much closer. Why include Canada? Because it is, generally speaking, the same market. How many times have you heard box office numbers? "_______ dominated the box office this weekend earning $30 million". Movie box office figures include Canada! So if you add Canadian TV numbers to those in the US the NHL and NBA are not far apart, especially when a big Canadian team like Vancouver is playing. If Montreal or Toronto made the finals and played the Red Wings or Flyers the Stanley Cup would have more viewers in North America than your typical NBA finals.

 

[Claimjumper]

espn talking head calls out indiana for being raycis for not attending pacer games to watch brothas dribble a ball and listen to rap music

[h=2]ESPN host Colin Cowherd suggested on his nationally syndicated radio show on Tuesday that the Indiana Pacers have low attendance at their home games because Indiana fans are racist.[/h] "You're holding an organization to a standard that happens because of race. There's no other explanation why people don't go to Pacers games," Cowherd said. "The Pacers are fantastic, have been for several years, nobody goes to the games."
Cowherd added that race had to be the only explanation because Pacers tickets are "reasonably priced," the "team is outstanding," and the "locker room is full of good guys."
"Nobody's saying everybody in Indianapolis is racist. Nobody is saying Indianapolis won't support African-American athletes," Cowherd said. "What we're saying is Indianapolis punishes the Pacers more than they punish the Colts for indiscretions off the field or off the court, and a lot of that is racial."
According to RTV6 in Indianapolis, Cowherd cited postings from Pacers fans on his Facebook page calling some of Indiana's basketball players "thugs."
According to ESPN, the Pacers "are averaging 14,433 people at home games in 2013, 27th out of 30 teams in the league" and, in 2012, "the Pacers were next-to-last in home attendance, with an average of 14,168 at home games."

The Pacers, in a statement on Wednesday, said, "that's one person's opinion we don't agree with."
"We are grateful to those who have supported us so far this season and over the years and we expect the support to grow as the season goes on. This is a great sports town, as evidenced by the great crowds we had during the playoffs last season and many times this season," the team said. "The Pacers are a very good team with a very good group of players, on and off the court, who are very proud representatives of the city and the state."
UPDATE: Cowherd was claiming that Pacer fans are still penalizing the team for the 2004 brawl in Detroit when former Indiana players Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest infamously fought with Detroit fans in the stands. In response, Indianapolis Star columnist Bob Kravitz wrote that Cowherd, watching "afar from Bristol, Conn.," does not get that that it takes years to rebuild a season ticket base after the Pacers traded away their top talent in the middle of the last decade.

Kravitz continues:

This team drew great crowds when Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson and Antonio and Dale Davis were battling the Knicks and the Bulls. The team drew well in the early 2000s with Jermaine O'Neal and Co., and the big crowds continued to support the Pacers even after all hell broke loose in Auburn Hills, Mich., on Nov. 19, 2004.
​

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...-Fans-are-Racist-for-Not-Attending-Home-Games

 

[Truthteller]

I don't like Cowherd at all, but hopefully he's 100% correct this time. It's about time whites start boycotting these Jewish run sports leagues that insist on fielding almost completely black teams, thereby shutting out qualified whites in the process.

Also, in addition to making a statement about anti-white hiring practices on the field or court, these racially aware whites will also be saving tons of money in this horrible economic environment. $700 dollars for a family of four to go to a Jazz game? What are people bat-$hit crazy paying that? I'm not even sure anyone should spend even half of that for an all-white team?

Also, isn't "Turnabout fair play"?

How many times have we had to listen to the Marxist media claim that blacks are justifiably not interested in sports like baseball and hockey because there are not enough blacks in these sports? Haven't teams like Nationals, Giants and Cardinals been dogged in recent years for not having "enough blacks"? Astros, Angeles and Red Sox were hammered for being "too white" last decade, even though they dominated on the playing field, right Joe "I have a white wife" Morgan?


Also, let me pose this question to Cowherd and that @sshole, Marxist Kravitz:

Imagine if there was an NHL franchise in Indiana named the Indianapolis Racers?

Caption: Yes, that's none other than Wayne Gretzky!

Even if they gave away free tickets to "minorities", could the Racers even average 1,000 black fans per game with an almost all-white roster? could they even average 100 black fans per game with an almost all-white roster?

My guess is they could not even get 100 blacks to show each night and I have no problem with that. None at all. Why should black folks support a sport like hockey?

Were I differ from Kravitz and Cowherd, is I also believe white fans should not (under any circumstances) support teams that are mostly black or Hispanic -- which means most NBA and many NFL teams.

But I guess saying that makes me a bad "goy" in Kosher, modern day America?

****


Back on the topic for a second, it looks like the suddenly very black Utah Jazz are starting to see a drop in attendance. Hopefully this trend will continue:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865574055/Declining-attendance-isnt-big-worry-to-Jazz.html

 

[jaxvid]

I don't like Cowherd at all, but hopefully he's 100% correct this time. It's about time whites start boycotting these Jewish run sports leagues that insist on fielding almost completely black teams, thereby shutting out qualified whites in the process.

Also, in addition to making a statement about anti-white hiring practices on the field or court, these racially aware whites will also be saving tons of money in this horrible economic environment. $700 dollars for a family of four to go to a Jazz game? What are people bat-$hit crazy paying that? I'm not even sure anyone should spend even half of that for an all-white team?

Also, isn't "Turnabout fair play"?

How many times have we had to listen to the Marxist media claim that blacks are justifiably not interested in sports like baseball and hockey because there are not enough blacks in these sports? Haven't teams like Nationals, Giants and Cardinals been dogged in recent years for not having "enough blacks"? Astros, Angeles and Red Sox were hammered for being "too white" last decade, even though they dominated on the playing field, right Joe "I have a white wife" Morgan?


Also, let me pose this question to Cowherd and that @sshole, Marxist Kravitz:

Imagine if there was an NHL franchise in Indiana named the Indianapolis Racers?

Caption: Yes, that's none other than Wayne Gretzky!

Even if they gave away free tickets to "minorities", could the Racers even average 1,000 black fans per game with an almost all-white roster? could they even average 100 black fans per game with an almost all-white roster?

My guess is they could not even get 100 blacks to show each night and I have no problem with that. None at all. Why should black folks support a sport like hockey?

Were I differ from Kravitz and Cowherd, is I also believe white fans should not (under any circumstances) support teams that are mostly black or Hispanic -- which means most NBA and many NFL teams.

But I guess saying that makes me a bad "goy" in Kosher, modern day America?

****


Back on the topic for a second, it looks like the suddenly very black Utah Jazz are starting to see a drop in attendance. Hopefully this trend will continue:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865574055/Declining-attendance-isnt-big-worry-to-Jazz.html

That's a great post. :rockon:

It should be put down on paper and shoved up Cowturd's ass.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

That's a great post. :rockon:

It should be put down on paper and shoved up Skip Bayless' ass.

Excellent posts all around.
Bayless is an attention - whore who sais whatever he can to keep himself relevant.

 

[WhiteBoySwag24]

The teams from the article suck. No one wants to pay to watch the Pistons, Bucks, or Bobcats. They're the NBA equivalent of the Coyotes, Islanders, and Blue Jackets.

As far as the other teams, the league is booming. It's on tap to make over $5 billion this year. That's 50% more than the NHL's best year of $3.3 billion.

The current ESPN/TNT deal pays $930 million a year, and is going to double over the next few years. The NHL's NBC deal is $200 million a year.

The values of the franchises are up 30% this year. They're worth $509 million on average, with 26 being worth more than $350 million. The NHL average is $283 million, with only 3 teams worth more than $350 million.

The NBA Finals, featuring teams from 8th and 43rd largest metro areas, averaged 17 million viewers. The NHL Finals, featuring teams from the 1st and 2nd largest metro areas, averaged 3 million viewers.

You can't even compare the two entities.

People do pay to see the Milwaukee Bucks. Our fans in Wisconsin are loyal and we do sell tickets. We are going to make the playoffs this year. JJ Reddick is gonna be helping the bucks even more now. They are a complete team.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

I'd not haul down to Atlanta to watch the afroletic (black)Hawks even if the tickets were free. The Yo.B.A has been too watered down (glorified streetball) and immersed in the thug, rap-is-crap culture. :hat: