seattlefan
Guru
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- Oct 21, 2011
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NBA teams can't sell out arenas, even after giving away free tickets
- Thread starter seattlefan
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Tannehill17
Mentor
The NBA is a complete artificial media fabrication that if not for BSPN promoting the hell out of it and its stars like LeBron, it would fall by the wayside. Living here in the Miami area, I go to about 10 Florida Panthers games a year, where as you couldn't PAY me to watch one Heat game, despite them being the defending champs. Like our good buddy Jax said in another thread about the NBA, I can't think of a league more designed to turn off guys like myself.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
It's been like this for as long as I can remember. I remember when I was in junior high, mid 90's, we would always get free tickets to Nets games from school. I went to a few. I did watch a lot of NBA during the next couple of years because I was a huge fan of Keith Van Horn and Tom Gugliotta. Googs was an animal and I remember not being able to find his jersey anywhere so I called a store in Minny and had them ship it to me.
I'd watch Nets games only to see Van Horn play. He could take any forward off the dribble, had a very good vertical, but he was a bit soft around the rim and never received his full potential. Still, a very solid player for most of his career.
I'd watch Nets games only to see Van Horn play. He could take any forward off the dribble, had a very good vertical, but he was a bit soft around the rim and never received his full potential. Still, a very solid player for most of his career.
Contrast the apathy of NBA fans with fans of the Pittsburgh Penguins of the NHL, who filled their home arena to capacity for a free scrimmage even though the regular season is about to begin:
It wasn't a game that will show up on the official NHL ledgers, but fans waited for hours in lines that curled around Consol Energy Center, then filled the arena to capacity Wednesday night and welcomed back the Penguins in a loud way.
The Penguins don't open the lockout-shortened season until Saturday afternoon at Philadelphia, but coach Dan Bylsma wanted a Black and Gold scrimmage that was as close to game conditions as possible with only a week of training camp and no preseason games.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...oaches-savor-fast-tempo-670755/#ixzz2ICypC0Jw
It wasn't a game that will show up on the official NHL ledgers, but fans waited for hours in lines that curled around Consol Energy Center, then filled the arena to capacity Wednesday night and welcomed back the Penguins in a loud way.
The Penguins don't open the lockout-shortened season until Saturday afternoon at Philadelphia, but coach Dan Bylsma wanted a Black and Gold scrimmage that was as close to game conditions as possible with only a week of training camp and no preseason games.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...oaches-savor-fast-tempo-670755/#ixzz2ICypC0Jw
Same thing happened with the Red Wings, got more people to a scrimmage then the Pistons draw to a game. I know there's a lot of pent up fan emotion involved but I doubt a Piston scrimmage before starting a strike shortened season would draw anyone.
B
Bruce Pierce II
Guest
Are you sure they are not waiting for the new Iphone? The new 5G should be obsolete in...... wait fot it......Contrast the apathy of NBA fans with fans of the Pittsburgh Penguins of the NHL, who filled their home arena to capacity for a free scrimmage even though the regular season is about to begin:
It wasn't a game that will show up on the official NHL ledgers, but fans waited for hours in lines that curled around Consol Energy Center, then filled the arena to capacity Wednesday night and welcomed back the Penguins in a loud way.
The Penguins don't open the lockout-shortened season until Saturday afternoon at Philadelphia, but coach Dan Bylsma wanted a Black and Gold scrimmage that was as close to game conditions as possible with only a week of training camp and no preseason games.
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...oaches-savor-fast-tempo-670755/#ixzz2ICypC0Jw
Tannehill17
Mentor
Unfortunately here in Miami, the sports scene is all about the NBA and the "3 Kings" but honestly, I haven't been to a Heat game since their inaugural year in 1988 when the Miami Arena first opened and they had a young white Rony Seikaly as their premier player. The team sucked but at least there were several white guys to cheer for. I really hate the fact that I live in a city where the NBA takes such precedent over the NHL but I have a feeling the mood here will begin to change as soon as the Panthers start becoming a force within the league and the Heat start to become a bunch of old washed up has-beens.
Tannehill17
Mentor
Another problem in the NBA is there's some teams with ridiculous losing records.
Last season a team had a 10% winning %, who the hell is going to buy tickets to that? The season before there were several teams in the 20-30% range, and the season before that.. the Nets almost set a record for worst team of all time.
Last season in the NHL, the Columbus Blue Jackets were a huge train wreck but still won more then 1 out of 3 games. Outside of the Jackets, the bottom feeders still won 40% of their games (this is NOT counting any overtime points, this is strictly Total Wins vs Total Losses).
A team winning 40% of their games versus a team winning 20% is a huge difference. For the former there's still plenty of excitement in going to the game, for the latter it's pretty much a done deal that your team is going to be used to wipe the floor with (does anyone seriously think the Bobcats have a shot in hell of beating the Heat) and if you're a Bobcats fan, who wants to bother going to the arena to see that?
Last season a team had a 10% winning %, who the hell is going to buy tickets to that? The season before there were several teams in the 20-30% range, and the season before that.. the Nets almost set a record for worst team of all time.
Last season in the NHL, the Columbus Blue Jackets were a huge train wreck but still won more then 1 out of 3 games. Outside of the Jackets, the bottom feeders still won 40% of their games (this is NOT counting any overtime points, this is strictly Total Wins vs Total Losses).
A team winning 40% of their games versus a team winning 20% is a huge difference. For the former there's still plenty of excitement in going to the game, for the latter it's pretty much a done deal that your team is going to be used to wipe the floor with (does anyone seriously think the Bobcats have a shot in hell of beating the Heat) and if you're a Bobcats fan, who wants to bother going to the arena to see that?
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
I think that many whites are just sick of the thug and rap culture of the NBA. Even during the 80's and 90's you had some decent blacks like Karl Malone and David Robinson who behaved themselves on and off the court. Compare that to todays guys like Pig James and company. What does any white person have in common with these guys? Who wants to go to a game to watch an entire team full of blacks with rap music pumping in the background? It;s only for wiggers at this point.
The NBA has always had extremes like that, as far as teams with very high winning percentages and losing percentages. The NHL used to but rarely does anymore.
But my biggest beef with the NHL is the cheap gimmick with the standings where there are two loss columns but just one win column to make teams look more successful than they actually are. (If a team wins in overtime or a shootout it goes in the win column, but if they lose in overtime or a shootout, rather than going in the loss column it goes in a third column that in every other league, including the NHL before overtime started, always meant ties.) Looking at the standings last season, only 7 teams out of 30 had a losing record while 23 were .500 or better. It makes the NHL, as Mario Lemieux once famously said, look like a "garage league."
Tannehill17
Mentor
Thats pretty much the reason I gave up on the NBA years ago. I haven't attended an NBA game since 1988 and I don't plan on doing so anytime in the foreseeable future. The NBA was still tolerable back in 1988 but once 1993 hit, thats when the culture of the league just went off a cliff. The baggy shorts, the gangsta rap music, players with criminal records, etc.. became commonplace. Now its even worse when 1/2 the league consists of a bunch of punk thugs who you wouldn't meet up with in a dark alley somewhere. Why on earth would I want to watch people play a sport who I would try to avoid at all costs in a real life setting?
I love the parity of the NHL. Every team, save a few have a chance to make the playoffs. And hell, who would have thought that an 8th seeded team would win it all last year? Compare that with the NBA, where like I said, you have teams with win percentages of 10-30% Combine that with the racial aspect that has already been mentioned, and its easy to see why NBA teams have trouble putting butts in the seats. If it weren't for the media juggernaut behind it, no one would give two s**ts and a holler about the NBA. It is like I said, a pure media fabrication. I can only imagine how popular the NHL would be if the powers that be put 1/10th of the effort they do in propping up the NBA. Of course we know what ethnic tribe those responsible for the media blackout of the NHL belong to.
And now it's the turn of Sacramento Kings fans to get screwed, as they have been sold and will move to Seattle next season.
Hmmm, wasn't Seattle supposed to be a bad market, to the point that the Supersonics moved to Oklahoma City? No, Seattle fans supported the team well, but the city wouldn't cave in to the demands of owners (blackmail essentially) to build them a new arena. Well, now the city has agreed to build a half-billion dollar arena and presto! the Supersonics, traditional name and all, are being reincarnated care of the Kings.
When Sacramento gets around to building a new arena, then another team owner who stomps his feet and still can't get taxpayers to build a new palace for him will suddenly decide that Sacramento isn't such a bad place to have a team after all (despite former NBA player Kevin Johnson now being the mayor). When the Kings had a competitive team, their fans filled the arena every game for a number of years.
And the Maloof brothers, who are selling the Kings, will get over $600 million in the deal, not a bad profit for screwing the city that enabled them to make that kind of dough.
And so it goes in corporate sports leagues, which is why I have no sympathy for the owners in lockouts, strikes and other matters. They're predatory mercenaries for the most part. There's not a single one that wouldn't move a team in order to suck more money and other freebies out of a city and its taxpayers.
Hmmm, wasn't Seattle supposed to be a bad market, to the point that the Supersonics moved to Oklahoma City? No, Seattle fans supported the team well, but the city wouldn't cave in to the demands of owners (blackmail essentially) to build them a new arena. Well, now the city has agreed to build a half-billion dollar arena and presto! the Supersonics, traditional name and all, are being reincarnated care of the Kings.
When Sacramento gets around to building a new arena, then another team owner who stomps his feet and still can't get taxpayers to build a new palace for him will suddenly decide that Sacramento isn't such a bad place to have a team after all (despite former NBA player Kevin Johnson now being the mayor). When the Kings had a competitive team, their fans filled the arena every game for a number of years.
And the Maloof brothers, who are selling the Kings, will get over $600 million in the deal, not a bad profit for screwing the city that enabled them to make that kind of dough.
And so it goes in corporate sports leagues, which is why I have no sympathy for the owners in lockouts, strikes and other matters. They're predatory mercenaries for the most part. There's not a single one that wouldn't move a team in order to suck more money and other freebies out of a city and its taxpayers.
Tannehill17
Mentor
I personally don't blame the Kings owners for wanting to sell and get the hell out of California. California was voted (I think by Forbes but I'm not sure) as the worst state to do business in. Doesn't surprise me since they elect idiots like Gov. Moonbeam, Feinstein, Pelosi, Boxer, Steinberg, etc.. to run things things there. I understand your frustration Don with the predatory business practices of some of these owners, especially blackmailing cities into building arenas (We learned this the hard way here in Miami with Jeffrey Loria conning the entire city into building him a shiny new ballpark then selling off the entire team) I think its a bunch of BS personally. When we were discussing the NHL lockout, my support of the owners was really more by default than anything since I typically oppose labor unions.
But yeah, Sacramento is about to get screwed, although if I were a Sacramento resident I still wouldn't care because I despise the NBA. But it would kind of suck to lose your city's only major sports franchise
But yeah, Sacramento is about to get screwed, although if I were a Sacramento resident I still wouldn't care because I despise the NBA. But it would kind of suck to lose your city's only major sports franchise
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The sports business has learned that they have a virtual key to the public treasury. No one of any importance opposes building new sports complexes no matter how unneeded and expensive they are. Politicians love the idea of awarding contracts to well connected construction firms (in exchange for big campaign contributions). The media loves to chime in with promising stories of how the new building will "save" the city or area, academia churns out studies that show how much money is going to pour into public coffers and how many new jobs will be created. And the DWF's love the idea of a new building to where they can stuff themselves with $10 hotdogs and $15 beers.
As an example of this the city of Detroit is trying to build a new arena for the Red Wings. The owner-Mike Illitch is pushing for it saying he cannot make any money with the existing one. The city, which is almost broke is saying they need the development and new jobs. and the media is, of course, pimping for it as well.
And all this went on during the strike! When there was no hockey and thus no money to be made. Furthermore what jobs will be created? They already play hockey down there. What happens to the arena? The Detroit area is already full of abandoned buildings. They just recently tore the old Tiger Stadium down, it's now an empty lot in a ghetto neighborhood. The old arena-Cobo has just been upgraded to a convention hall after sitting empty for 20 years. The Silverdome is still empty-since the Lions left there years ago.
Stadium and arena building is just another con job to take money from the taxpayers who have no end of appetite for bread and circuses.
Tannehill17
Mentor
I do think there are times when older stadiums need to be torn down and new ones built. Tiger Stadium was an example of that. That stadium was ancient and the stadium they play in now is much MUCH nicer. Having said that though, what really pisses me off is when these owners like the ones in Sacramento are whining about a building that is only 25 years old. I don't blame them for wanting to leave the anti-business capital of America, California, but if they need a new arena that bad, they should build it with their own damn money.
Here in Miami (and yes, I know I use that phrase a lot, just to illustrate how messed up things are down here) we are still paying for the Miami Arena despite the fact that it was demolished about 3 years ago. The stupid idiot planners we had down here decided build that arena in Overtown (one of the absolute WORST parts of Miami) and to top it off, the arena was undersized by both NBA and NHL standards. So we had to start over and build two new separate arenas. The only good thing about this was at least they had the sense to build the Panthers arena in Sunrise which is in a nice suburban area, right next to a mall, and far away from the ghetto.
Here in Miami (and yes, I know I use that phrase a lot, just to illustrate how messed up things are down here) we are still paying for the Miami Arena despite the fact that it was demolished about 3 years ago. The stupid idiot planners we had down here decided build that arena in Overtown (one of the absolute WORST parts of Miami) and to top it off, the arena was undersized by both NBA and NHL standards. So we had to start over and build two new separate arenas. The only good thing about this was at least they had the sense to build the Panthers arena in Sunrise which is in a nice suburban area, right next to a mall, and far away from the ghetto.
Well I loved Tiger Stadium and Fenway Park is ancient but they have managed to do okay with it, but I do agree that the current Co-America park is a great ballpark. But we are talking about a city that is on the brink of bankruptcy and can't afford police and fire let alone new places for sports teams to play.
Look how the sports complex has advanced from the old days when multi-purpose stadiums were built for both football and baseball or areans for both hockey and basketball as well as for concerts and other events. Now every sport has to have it's own stadium. A big expensive building that sits empty 300-350 days a year. And after a few years build another one, abandon or tear down the old one and rinse and repeat. And people wonder why this country is in debt to the tune of trillions of dollars.
Tannehill17
Mentor
I can only hope that these newer sports complexes that are being built are being done so with the foresight that they will have at least a 50 year lifespan. The Miami Arena built in Overtown (think of one of the worst ghettos in Miami you've ever been to and that will give you an idea of what a pain in the ass going there was) was a complete disaster! It was only used for about 12 years, then sat vacant for about 7 or 8 years after that and then was demolished. Miami tax payers are still footing the bill for a building that doesn't even exist anymore. The Heat and the Panthers both lucked out in building their new facilities when they did because if they had waited until the housing market collapsed, they both would have been looking for new cities to play in.
I can't speak for the Heat because I don't know what their arena situation is like but the Panthers are in a pretty good position in which they generate a lot of revenue from the arena and I think there was some sort of agreement that if Sunrise Sports Entertainment (the ownership group) ever tried to bolt, that there would be lawsuits out the ass from Broward County.
But anyway, I kind of feel that this thread got off track. I'm glad to see half empty NBA arenas because the product is simply awful. I just can't imagine paying good money to watch not only teams that are used as proverbial doormats, but also a game that resembles glorified streetball
I can't speak for the Heat because I don't know what their arena situation is like but the Panthers are in a pretty good position in which they generate a lot of revenue from the arena and I think there was some sort of agreement that if Sunrise Sports Entertainment (the ownership group) ever tried to bolt, that there would be lawsuits out the ass from Broward County.
But anyway, I kind of feel that this thread got off track. I'm glad to see half empty NBA arenas because the product is simply awful. I just can't imagine paying good money to watch not only teams that are used as proverbial doormats, but also a game that resembles glorified streetball
The Superdome is still here which hosts a variety of events besides football, gets the final four quite a bit. I think it has been around 40 years now. Of course there were some changes after Katrina.
The only thing that has been complained about is areas being too narrow...personally I think this has to do with dwfs getting fatter.
The only thing that has been complained about is areas being too narrow...personally I think this has to do with dwfs getting fatter.
You mean the "Mercedes-Benz" Superdome. I toured that place about 25 years ago. It's pretty impressive. They did a good job. It's one of the few places that has lasted that long and isn't considered ancient and in need of replacement. Perhaps because of the many off season events that are run in New Orleans it helps make it a good investment to continually rebuild and upgrade.
In Michigan they built the Pontiac Silverdome at the same time as the Superdome. It wasn't much of a stadium although it was big and hosted a lot of very large events. The Lions left in 2001 and it's been essentially empty since. It's located in Pontiac which is a Detroit suburb with many of the same problems as Detroit and coincidentally the same population demographic.
Tannehill17
Mentor
Whenever I think of the Pontiac Silverdome I think of Wrestlemania 3 where Hulk Hogan slammed Andre the Giant. I believe the announced gate of that event was something close to 100,000 but in reality it was closer to around 80,000. Still an impressive number for a pro-wrestling event.
FootballDad
Hall of Famer
In Kansas City, Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium (for the Chiefs and Royals, respectively) are essentially still the stadiums built 40 years ago. Of course, the taxpayers were fleeced with a sales tax stipend to pay for renovations over the last 5 years, but it's still far better (and cheaper) than building new stadiums. But not everything is perfect, Kansas City (Jackson County) taxpayers are stuck with the bill for the fabulous Sprint Center in downtown KC that has no tenants.
Gibbon
Guru
What the hell is keeping the NBA alive? Virtually no one cares. I assume that player and coach's salaries have declined or at least stagnated. Does anyone have data on that?
FootballDad
Hall of Famer
The folks that run the Sprint Center have been looking for a tenant since it was built a few years ago, but have not even really tried to pursue an NBA team, for reasons made obvious by this thread. They are trying hard to steal an NHL team, since that's where the real attendance money is. A few miles east of downtown KC, the Missouri Mavericks CHL team plays to packed houses at the Independence Center.
Tannehill17
Mentor
ESPN and corporate sponsorships are what is keeping it alive. No one really cares about the NBA but they do care about its stars like Kobe and LeBron which are who the corporate sponsorships are built around and what moves merch. Plus, the NBA has done a lot of outreach in other countries, namely China and they've found that there is an absolute killing to be made there money-wise. Say what you want about Zionist Jew David Stern and his band of afflete thugs, but the man certainly isn't an idiot.