My take on this site

[White Shogun]

You might be the poster boy for the bell curve.

 

[iLlerThanU]

And it isn't a conspiracy that blacks score well below
whites on IQ tests. Let's just appreciate our differences...

not a conspiracy, it's blatant and out in the open and delves into the
socio -economic devide within america, as well as a history everyone
wants to forget without correcting....but that has nothing to do with
football, but makes it abundantly clear, you fellas don't like looking
at things head on, you like squirming around the issues finding what
ever marginal response you can come up with to make yourselves feel
better...do what you do i suppose.

The lack of dexterity in the hips agrument falls on
its face when you look at other sports. Gymnastics, skiing, soccer
etc...that all call for "dexterity".

nope...obviously you don't play sports, or even watch much Gymnastics
or Skiing...male gymnasts are VERY stiff, and very very very
strong...control and strength are the name of the game in gymnastics
for men..women require dexterity more than the men do...compare floor
routines and you see the HUGE difference...thanks for trying tho







then we have skiing...you don't have to be particularly graceful or
nimble to ski well, for instance, picabo street is admitedly clumsy,
yet could ski with the best of men...watching someone ski you may be
able to derive a graceful nature from the movement, but the skills set
that it requires is control and strength and not as much nimbleness or
grace....once again...thanks for trying











then we have soccer...or better stated, futbol...futbol is dominated by
European and South American nations, while having "white" players have
a VASTLY different culture than America...go to their clubs and you
don't see 500+ off beat caucasians...what makes American caucasians
miss the beat and not be able to catch the rhythm?? i have no
idea...but it is what it is...and you wonder why American's can't
compete on the world stage even with the best facilities and resources
on the planet, which more than make up for the lack of so called
American interest in comparison to other nations...hence, all
caucasions are not created equal, as all african americans are not
created equal...but nice try

So white CBs, RBs and WRs had agility and dexterity
in the integrated NFL of the '60s, '70s and early '80s, but in roughly
1985 this ability was permanently lost by every white football player
in perpetuity except for Brandon Stokley?


Alstott ran people over and eluded them. Check out the number of
long TD runs he's had, especially in the fourth quarters of games
against tired defenses, before you make a statement like that. And
besides, that's what big tailbacks are supposed to do -- run over
people.

lets stop you right there, as you begin to ramble with a bunch of
marginal "what about this white guy" blah blah like you're proving your
point. For the last time, pointing out the EXCEPTION to the
"rule" does not change the rule. Pointint out a white athlete
here and there doesn't make thousands of deserving white atheletes
appear out of thin air. On the contrary, it shows that there
AREN'T very many deserving white athletes, otherwise you'd be able to
run out of names...but you can't. so let that form of argument
go...for the sake of all intelligent people who may hold your point of
view...





now...have you seen film of 50's, 60's, 70's? how many prolific
passers were there before the "west coast offense" was introduced in
coincidentally, 1984 or so....hmmmm? And i'm not talking about
good or even GREAT QB's, i'm talkin PROLIFIC PASSERS...weren't many at
all, yet today, in the right system, a less talented QB than say Fran
Tarkenten can eclipse his #'s fairly easily, because the passing game
just isn't the same...before the west coast offense, WR's weren't
utilized like they are now...the field wasn't opened up like it is
now...Broadway Joe says it all the time when ever he's sport's
casting..haha...stop throwing up #'s you're getting from books and
websites, and watch some of the games, learn your Football history
before you start arguing about this and that, you just sound
foolish. The called for more nimble and agile WR's and DB's to
run the complex routes and cover...before it was alot more simple and
WR's blocked alot more, and DB's could still tackle...haha...imagine
that. The game shifted away from one that suited whites
physically, to one that didn't. They didn't lose the ability to
play the 50's 60's and 70's game, they just didn't adjust to the new
way the game was played.



and lets not talk about RBs...from Jim Brown to Barry Sanders....if you
can't see the difference in the way each of these hall of famers played
the game as indicative of their era, you're just lost.





and alstot....<sigh>....have you seen Tampa Bay play? when
alstot eludes a tackler without putting his pads on him, you'll know
it, cause the commentator will let you know...for a big guy, alstot can
move pretty well...in general, he can not. When he breaks for a
long run, he usually breaks tackles with his strength, not his
quickness and when he's in the open field, he's hard to bring down by a
corner or safety because of his size. If you've actually seen the
man play, you should be getting visions of players peeling off his
body, unable to take him down and him fighting through arm tackles like
so many knats. He doesn't run away from many people cause he's
not that fast, but you're gonna have a hard time bringing him down if
you don't have help. So you should understand that when he
reaches the secondary, it's normally a mismatch, unless you can get his
legs and even then, good luck. You should KNOW all of this if
you're bringing the man up in discussion, and him juking one person a
game in the NFL does not make him quick or nimble...he's a down hill
runner, always has been, and has always been hard to bring down once he
gets going....you should know all this, and this shouldn't even be up
for discussion. but alas, you are like many others on here,
grasping for the marginal in hopes of coming up with something
relevant...you failed.





and that blah blah about dancing...while funny, you missed the point,
and i don't feel the need to catch you up. keep reaching for
point's and positions that don't exist. I'm sure plenty of people
here will welcome more marginal responses.

 

[iLlerThanU]

and for the rest of the non-intelligible responses about "hip
swiveltude" and other nonsense, taking my comments out of context...





obviously you've never played football at a high level, because some
coach would have used the same terminology as I have..."stiff hips" is
commonly used to characterize a person with little lateral
movement...doesn't mean they're slow or even incapable of, just means
when the get going, they don't change directions well, which is a
necessary component of being a DB, WR, and RB for the most part in the
NFL today....





but assuredly you will find some way to skew reality to fit your paradigm, so that you may continue in this fantasy land.





and to the guy talking about pre 98 Sehorn...what made him good was his
physical nature i.e. 103 tackles which is UNHEARD of for a DB...6 and 5
Int's in his prime isn't impressive for a cover corner, which he was
not...but he could man up on bigger WR's which made him a great
asset. against the more shifty WR's...lights out. and just
because i'm talkin about Sehorn in a plain light doesn't mean i think
he was trash. or that i think all black players are great. i've
played semi-pro football, and the WHITE football players i've played
with would agree with what i've said...THEY don't care as a majority,
they understand their strengths and their weaknesses...and of course
there is the exception and by no means am i saying they will lay down
and admit mediocrity, they accept who they are and work harder, as do
all football players...





only fans sit back and argue across color lines....owners/colleges work
off money, so it befuddles me that any of you believe they won't put
the best players they can get on the field...you're sadly mistaken.


Edited by: iLlerThanU

 

[bigunreal]

iLerThanU-



Your long, rambling posts are full of contradictions and very
confusing. Your response to the point about the well documented fact
that blacks score well below whites on standardized tests made no sense
at all. Let's simplify this; since you obviously accept the notion that
certain broad generalizations can be made about entire racial groups
(blacks are more athletic, whites can't dance), do you accept other
stereotypical notions about entire racial groups, namely that blacks
are less intelligent and lazy and whites are more enterprising and
behave in a more civilized fashion? There is at least as much anecdotal
evidence in support of these racial stereotypes as there is in the ones
you espouse.



You can't just pick and choose which stereotypes to believe in. If you
think that broad statements about an entire group can be made, then you
have to be consistent. Right now, you're sounding like a typical
modern-day American. I'm sure blacks love being the beneficary of
"good" stereotyping (natural athletes, great dancers, larger penises)
while being able to count on the Thought Police to ensure that none of
the "bad" old stereotyping about them (lazy, ignorant, rude, loud,
prone to violence and crime) ever is floated about in polite company.
As for most whites, they are so lacking in self-esteem and confidence
that they are ready to believe the worst about themselves always. It
wouldn't surprise me that white football players think black players
are better, too. That's what they're being told by their black
teammates, their coaches, the fans and every journalist who reports on
the games they play.

 

[Black Guy]

And it isn't a conspiracy that blacks score well below whites on IQ tests. Let's just appreciate our differences...

I bet I would score as high if not higher on a IQ as anyone on this board.

 

[SteveB]

Let's try to bring this discussion back to civilized debate. I live in Texas and follow high school football pretty closely. If you look at the 5A State Champs in Texas over the last 20 years over 2/3rds of the schools are predominantly white. Over half of the Defensive and Offensive MVPs are white. Most of these schools run a west coast or spread offense. Most of the teams that win the 7on7 contests are predominantly white. For those not familiar with 7on7, it is a competition without lineman that matches offensive and defensive skill players. Yet, given all of this, the predominant players recruited to Div 1 schools at the skill positions are black. Why is that? Maybe BG and Illerthanyou can explain this.

BTW, I played DB at Texas A&M, so I am not truly ignorant on this subject.

 

[White Shogun]

And it isn't a conspiracy that
blacks score well below whites on IQ tests. Let's just appreciate our
differences...

I bet I would score as high if not higher on a IQ as anyone on this board.

Well, maybe you're one of the exceptions to the rule, like John Riggins and Matt Jones.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

How many more years and games did he play than Ruth before he broke Ruth's record?

How do we know the hitters that were getting struck out by Satchel Page were any count?

Riggans split time for most of his career, and still did better than any back before him in almost all categories.

Simply saying that Michael, not Micheal, Jordan was the best basketball player of all time does not make it so.

What determines best in your formula?

You guys are leaving way too many unanswered questions. To have an honest debate, these have to be addressed.

Who's really afraid to look at this in a direct way?

 

[Don Wassall]

White supremacists are often derided for their belief in white supremacy, and rightfully so. How is it any less ridiculous to claim that black people, as a whole, are natually better athletes and as equally capable as whites in academics? Wouldn't equal intelligence and superior athleticism equal a superior race overall??

White Shogun wrote this much earlier on in this thread, which has grown at a kudzu-like pace, but it's an excellent observation. That indeed is theonly logical conclusion that can be drawn from government and media propaganda -- that all the various races, sub-races, cultures, subcultures and religions being brought into this country are exactly the same when it comes to mental ability, but blacks are genetically superior physically. Thus, blacks area superiorrace.


In the Orwellian times we live in, it's a good general rule of thumb to start off assuming the opposite of what we're told. Often the biggest lies arethose things insisted upon most vigorously and most unanimously. So when it comes to the above, it would behoove any and all who try to employ critical thinking about the important topics of the day to view with great skepticism the claims that everyone is exactly the same when it comes to intelligencebut that blacks are a "master race" when it comes to sports.

 

[Black Guy]

How many more years and games did he play than Ruth before he broke Ruth's record?

How do we know the hitters that were getting struck out by Satchel Page were any count?

Riggans split time for most of his career, and still did better than any back before him in almost all categories.

Simply saying that Michael, not Micheal, Jordan was the best basketball player of all time does not make it so.

What determines best in your formula?

You guys are leaving way too many unanswered questions. To have an honest debate, these have to be addressed.

Who's really afraid to look at this in a direct way?

Whos to say the pitchers Ruth played against were any good? I once saw BabeRuth hit a home run where he stepped up into the pitch and swung. How fast could that pitch have been going. Not to mention Ruth played with some truly great lineups like the Murderers Row in 1927.Who did Hank Aaronever have like that in his lineup? Yeah he had some good playersbut nothing like Ruth did.


Satchel Paige had no choice but to face the batters he did because blacks were banned fromplaying in the majors.


If I remember correctly Riggins was almost washed up until Joe Gibbswas hired andsaved his career. Heres his career stats. RIGGINS NEVER RAN FOR MORE THAN 1347 YARDS. He said himself in a Sports Illustrated Interview that if he wouldnt have won the super bowl MVP he would have never made the hall of fame. IN FACT HE ONLY RAN FOR 1,000 YARDS FIVE TIMES! Although he did have a pretty good average yards per carry. He was good but he cant compare to Jamal Lewis and OJ Simpson and Terrell Davis who had2,000 yard seasons.



<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center><T><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Year</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Team</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Games</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">No.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Yds.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Avg.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">TD</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">No.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Yds.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Avg.</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">TD</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1971</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">NY Jets</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">14</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">180</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">769</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.3</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">36</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">231</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">6.4</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">2</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1972</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">NY Jets</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">12</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">207</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">944</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">7</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">21</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">230</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">11</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1973</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">NY Jets</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">11</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">134</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">482</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">23</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">158</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">6.9</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1974</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">NY Jets</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">10</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">169</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">680</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.0</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">19</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">180</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">9.5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">2</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1975</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">NY Jets</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">14</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">238</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1,005</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.2</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">30</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">363</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">12.1</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1976</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">14</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">162</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">572</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">21</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">172</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">8.2</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1977</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">68</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">203</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">7</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">95</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">13.6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">2</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1978</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">15</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">248</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1,014</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.1</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">31</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">299</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">9.6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1979</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">16</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">260</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1,153</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">4.4</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">9</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">28</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">163</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5.8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1980</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">15</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">195</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">714</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.7</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">13</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">59</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">9.8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1981</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">177</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">553</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.1</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">10</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">50</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5.0</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1982</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">15</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">375</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1,347</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">24</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">29</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">5.8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1983</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">14</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">327</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1,239</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">14</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">7</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">43</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">6.1</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">1984</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Washington</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">12</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">176</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">677</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">8</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">6</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">18</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.0</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">0</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">Career</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular"></TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">175</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">2,916</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">11,352</TD>
<TD vAlign=top bgColor=#e4e4e4 ="statsregular">3.9</TD></TR></T></T></T></TABLE>


Edited by: Black Guy

 

[Black Guy]

Let's try to bring this discussion back to civilized debate. I live in Texas and follow high school football pretty closely. If you look at the 5A State Champs in Texas over the last 20 years over 2/3rds of the schools are predominantly white. Over half of the Defensive and Offensive MVPs are white. Most of these schools run a west coast or spread offense. Most of the teams that win the 7on7 contests are predominantly white. For those not familiar with 7on7, it is a competition without lineman that matches offensive and defensive skill players. Yet, given all of this, the predominant players recruited to Div 1 schools at the skill positions are black. Why is that? Maybe BG and Illerthanyou can explain this.

BTW, I played DB at Texas A&amp;M, so I am not truly ignorant on this subject.

I dont really know enough about 7 on 7 football to answer that question.

 

[SteveB]

Here's an explanation of 7-on-7. All of the high schools down here play in an organized league in the summers. It is a good way to practice football without violating UIL rules.

http://www.aaufootball.org/default.asp?a=pg_7on7.htm

 

[Black Guy]

Let's try to bring this discussion back to civilized debate. I live in Texas and follow high school football pretty closely. If you look at the 5A State Champs in Texas over the last 20 years over 2/3rds of the schools are predominantly white. Over half of the Defensive and Offensive MVPs are white. Most of these schools run a west coast or spread offense. Most of the teams that win the 7on7 contests are predominantly white. For those not familiar with 7on7, it is a competition without lineman that matches offensive and defensive skill players. Yet, given all of this, the predominant players recruited to Div 1 schools at the skill positions are black. Why is that? Maybe BG and Illerthanyou can explain this.

BTW, I played DB at Texas A&amp;M, so I am not truly ignorant on this subject.

One thing that I can say about this though is that a lot of times Black schoolsdont have the resources that white schools have. The white schools have better coaching,better booster support,better equipment and the black schools dont have that especially in high school. So a well coached white team will always kick the behind of a more talented but poorly coached and equipped black team. But if you take the same black kids and give them equal coaching and schooling like at a Divison 1 school then the black kids will start to win that battle. I think that is potentially what is happenning here.


I know that generalization doesnt apply in 100% of circumstances but it is valid for some.Edited by: Black Guy

 

[Bart]

I would like to address a side issue which is not important to this debate but just something that bothers me. Why do we say Jordan is the best basketball player? It would be more correct to say he was the best guard if that is your conviction. Centers should be judged against other centers and forwards with other forwards as each position is measured by different criteria.


Same thing in football. How can a quarterback for example be called the best football player? Does he block or tackle? Does he catch passes orrun a slant route, field a punt or kick a field goal? It's equally absurd to call a linebacker or tailback or receiver the best football player. Why can't we just say he's the best quarterback or the best linebacker or the best back?


Jaxvid made a good point about Jordan. I saw him play baseball. It was weird because he didn't particularly run fast or even swing the bat well and he sure wasn't a good fielder, was he? Did he have great eye to hand co-ordination,Idon't think so. Was he good at anything other than basketball? To say he was the greatest athleteof all time is loony.Edited by: Bart

 

[SteveB]

You are getting warmer BG. The coaching is much better at the Div 1 level. Just think if these white kids that are superstars in high school, win state championships, etc, were to be recruited and coached at the Div 1 level, how good could they become? Very few of them ever get to that level unless they are a QB, OL, or LB. The rest play at Division II and III schools and excel, a lot win championships, but are never noticed. They never play on TV, never win any individual awards (Heisman, Lombardi, etc), and never get invited to a NFL combine. There is a glass ceiling there that few will admit.

 

[foreverfree]

I once saw Babe Ruth hit a home run where he stepped up into the pitch and swung. How fast could that pitch have been going.

You're that old? Or do you mean footage?

John

 

[Kaptain]

Most every major city has urban youth football leagues (as well as other sports leagues) that are well-funded and coached. They target mostly black youths. In the meantime, most rural high schools (almost 100% white) don't have organized football until the 7th grade. To say blacks don't have opportunity in sports is a complete falsehood. Our politicians seem to think that promoting sports is the only way to keep black youths out of trouble. The resources available to black youths far out do the resources for white youths.


Most black schools have black coaches. Black guy, are suggesting that black coaches are mentally inferior? We don't need that type of racism on this site.

John Riggins was the type of dominant power runner that would move the chains, wear defenses down, score touchdowns, carry his team single-handedly, and win superbowls. This type of runner is almost extinct in the NFL. Riggins was completely dominant in bringing the redskins a superbowl. OJ Simpson was never in his league - I don't care how many yards he got.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Black Guy, couldn't the same be said of Babe Ruth then, that he had no choice in facing slow white pitchers?

He had shorter seasons, and played fewer of them than Aaron.

What does the rest of the lineup have to do with individual accomplishments like hitting homeruns?

What relevance does Riggans comments have? That's like a fans comments. Just because he, or anyone said something doesn't make it truth.

Your making excuses, which shows you don't know what your talking about.

 

[speedster]

Black Guy,are you still out there? Have you cut and run yet? If not,why don't you just tell us what your IQ is,the suspense is killing me.

 

[Don Wassall]

He wrote in the "Dumbest Comparison Ever" thread that he was going to be away for the weekend and would start posting again on Monday. Hope you can bear the suspense, Speedster!

 

[speedster]

Well,I guess I'll have to wait until Monday then.I was just thinking,maybe Black Guy is taking the weekend off from this site is because he is out there recruiting.He may come back with a couple of other black guys who in turn will tell two friends and they will tell two friends and so on,and so on.We could be in for a full-scalerace-riot come next week.Are you ready for some Monday night Castefootball war.

 

[White Shogun]

Well,I guess I'll have to wait until Monday then.I was
just thinking,maybe Black Guy is taking the weekend off from this site
is because he is out there recruiting.He may come back with a couple of
other black guys who in turn will tell two friends and they will tell
two friends and so on,and so on.We could be in for a
full-scalerace-riot come next week.Are you ready for some Monday
night Castefootball war.

Actually, I was thinking he recruited illerthanu</span>.
Kind of unusual that another black man would post within what, 2 days,
of the first and speak specifically to those threads with which Black
Guy is most concerned? I don't mind debating with Black
Guy, he's been friendly and open-minded to some extent, but the
same can't be said for illerthanu.



Plus, Black Guy has yet to point out that I can't dance.

 

[Don Wassall]

I think IlerthanU should change hisuser name to Swivel Hips!

 

[surfsider]

Haven't been keeping up and just read the "non-intelligible responses" (if I was a part of the blatant conspiracy I'd probably suggest that the word Iller was searching for was unintelligible) of Iller regarding the hip problem. Male gymnasts are stiff? As uncomfortable as it makes me feel watching male gymnasts prance about during the floor exercise the very last thing they are is inflexible in the hip area.

You seem to confuse making baseless assertions with argument. Just saying something is so doesn't make it so. The resorting to emotionally charged rhetoric about the history of blacks and charging blatant conspiracy doesn't wash. I've played many sports and at 44 still play basketball. At my gym I'm often the only one in the game that has the deficiency in the hips
though until your revelations I had never noticed the problem. And I dare say that neither have the people I've been playing with.

The hang-up about white guys dancing confounds me but to use a word you're probably comfortable with it just might be "cultural". Maybe Euro/South Am. guys are just less inhibited when it comes to dancing. I'll gladly concede that one. Being married to a woman that taught dance and was a professional dancer/cheerleader
(Go Chiefs!) I have found myself on more than a few occasions in clubs were there were white guys dancing like they were channeling the Nicholas Brothers and
Alvin Ailey. Of course they were dancing with each other but...at least they were dancing!

 

[White Shogun]

Good post Surfsider...



but who the hell are the Nicholas Brothers and Alvin Ailey???

Help me out on this one and tell me if its a good thing or a bad
thing to be compared to those guys. I'll have to take your word
for it though, as I'm not sure I want to Google them until I know
what will show up in the search results.