MVP and Cy Young awards

Kaptain

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Well this is the time of year the media makes its push to give these awards to anybody who isn't white.


NL CY YOUNG: After a what seems like a full year of campaigning for Dontrelle Willis (2.55 ERA) the talking heads have finally conceded that either Roger Clemens with his 1.57 ERA or Chris Carpenter with his 20 wins and 2.28 ERA should win the award. Funny that earlier in the year the talking heads insisted that Willis should start the all-star game ahead of Clemens because he had more wins. Now that Carpenter has more wins Willis is clearly out of the running and Clemens is being considered again.


AL MVP: Two people have been talked about - Alex Rodriquez (.323 BA and 40 HR), Vladimir Guerrero (.315 BA and 28 HR), and Manny Ramirez (.285 BA , 33 HR , horrible outfielding). Completely left out of the conversation is Michael Young (.326 BA and 20 HR). Michael Young plays SS and leads the league in BA and hits with 188. He has 24 more hits, 8 more doubles, and 5 more triples than A-Rod. He blows away the RF Guerrero and Ramirez statistically even without considering that he is a SS and they are just outfielders. Why isn't he even mentioned? Honorable mention should also go to Jason Giambi who has bounced back from a terrible start to lead all of baseball with a .445 on base percentage to go along with 26 home runs.


AL Cy Young: The two guys I've heard mentioned are Bartolo Colon (18 wins and 3.24 ERA) and Johan Santana (13 wins and 3.07 ERA). Left out of the conversation was Mark Buerle (15 wins and 3.00 ERA). Buerle also put his incredible stats out on the field more than anybody else with 203 inning pitched. Why would he be left out?


Finally, the NL MVP: Looks like Andruw (parents couldn't spell) Jones or Derek Lee(yet another 1st basemen).Nobody else looks to be close and I'm tired of writing. Pooped out.
 

Bear-Arms

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Al Cy Young: Would be no contest if Halladay didn't get hurt. Jon Garland wasn't mentioned; he has 17 wins, an ERA of 3.28, and leads the league in shutouts. However, Jon is purely a groundball pitcher, and not a strikeout machine. I think this award is still up for grabs.

Al MVP: If previous MVP selections are any indication then you'll understand why Michael Young will not be picked. Besides not being on a winning team; he does not post the big HR numbers that everyone is in love with. Jason Giambi doesn't deserve it, unless they give MVPs for playing half a season. Paul Konerko and Mark Teixeira both are having good seasons. They're not having the monster seasons like Ortiz and Rodriquez. I think Ortiz will win this award.

NL MVP: A lot of the good white NL players have either had poor season, got injured, or have just aged. Morgan Ensberg is the only white player with a shot. Is the NL manly non-white? It seems that way to me. My pick is Derek Lee.

NL Cy Young: Chris Carpenter deserves this award his team leads MLB in wins. My pick is Chris Carpenter.
 

Kaptain

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Wasn't Sammy Sosa selected as an MVP from a losing team? A-rod plays for a team that has been a disappointment and still are not guaranteed of making the post-season.


I agree that Jon Garland should be in the mix.


Ortiz is a DH in a down year for HR. The MVP shouldn't go to a DH that doesn't at least hit 50 HR. Although it just might.


I forgot to mention the public push for mariano riveria (1.40 ERA and 35 saves) to win the AL CY Young. He has good stats but there are a handful of relievers with similar stats that will never be mentioned. Huston Street has a 1.22 ERA for the A's and has pitched more innings. Bob Wickman has the most saves. The NL even has more relievers with similar stats yet riveria is the only reliever hyped for the Cy Young in a down year for the Yankees. ???


I don't how Roger Clemens can be overlooked for the Cy Young. Carpenters had a great year but this legend has a 1.55 ERA! The next closest is Carpenter with a 2.22. Thats still a big difference. Roger has pitched well all year.
 

GWTJ

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NL MVP - Andruw Jones seems to be the most deserving of the award. When Chipper Jones carried Atlanta a couple of years ago he won it.


NL Cy Young - I would lean towards the guy with the better ERA if there is a substantial difference. I remember when Bob Welch won the Cy Young with a blown up ERA. He had 27 wins with a ton of run support. Wins are given too much weight when the voting is done. Clemens should win his 8th but some voters may not want to give it to him. Willis did pull himself together after his normal mid season shelling but he clearly is the 3rd man in a 2 man race.


AL MVP - I like Johnny Damon. He quietly carried Boston all year.


AL Cy Young - Santana seems to be the most deserving of a weak list of candidates.
 

foreverfree

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Kaptain Poop said:
AL MVP: Two people have been talked about - Alex Rodriquez (.323 BA and 40 HR), Vladimir Guerrero (.315 BA and 28 HR), and Manny Ramirez (.285 BA , 33 HR , horrible outfielding).

That's three people, Kaptain.
smiley1.gif


John
 

Bear-Arms

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If Santana is in the running then you can add a whole bunch of other guys. Also, you have to factor in run support, which might give Clemens the edge in the NL. What do you guys think? Edited by: Bear-Arms
 

Bear-Arms

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If they really wanted to they could make Roger Clemens the MVP or any pitcher for that matter.
 

Bart

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Bear-Arms, if weconsider ERA with wins to losses, Roy Halladay looks slightly better than Santana, but Colon , Buerle and Garland are close.


In the NL Carpenter is way out in front.with a record of 20-4 and very low ERA . Too bad Roger doesn't have a few more wins. Smoltz could be a dark horse if the others falter.
 

Kaptain

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Roy Halladay would win but he hasn't pitched the whole season and really doesn't have enough innings. Buerle's stats are better than anybody's IMO and he has pitched the most innings. He also plays for a better team than Colon and Santana. I'm told that is important.
 

JD074

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Alex Rodriguez won MVP playing SS for the Rangers. Home runs or no, Young shouldn't be out of contention merely for being on a bad team if "A Rod" wasn't when he was there.
 

foreverfree

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Kaptain, in the original post re the AL MVP you said "Two people have been talked about", then listed *three* names. Is an apology (or at least a "oops, my bad") forthcoming? I'm surprised noone else has picked up on this...

John
 

Kaptain

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Ok OOoPPs! my bad. As me and my homies say. I added Manny ramirez later and didn't change the sentence. backsies.


BTW what is the word noone mean? I couldn't find it in my ebonics dictionary.
 

foreverfree

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Kaptain Poop said:
Ok OOoPPs! my bad. As me and my homies say. I added Manny ramirez later and didn't change the sentence. backsies.

Apology accepted.
smiley1.gif

BTW what is the word noone mean? I couldn't find it in my ebonics dictionary.
smiley36.gif

I've seen it spelled like that a few times (heck, I saw it spelled that way 35 years ago, in the mimeographed lyrics of S&G's I Am A Rock), and I've seen it spelled "no one", as in "not anyone". I thought you had that figured out.

Anyone know the correct spelling of "noone"/"no one"?

John
 

Don Wassall

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Don't be forgettin' about the great Dontrelle now y'all. This already legendary athlete, with his electric personality, is so good the Marlins have him batting eighth today:


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gamecast?gameId=250917128


How can Dontrelle not get the Cy Young and the MVP after this? Any other result would be racist.
 

Bart

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Chris Carpenter should be a shoo-in for the Cy Young award. He has one less win than Willis but far fewer losses. Willis has a better ERA , Carpenter has a lower WHiP. Fortunately for Chris, Willis has many more losses, so it would be difficult for the Caste System press to favorhim, but you never know.


Willis



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Carpenter



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Kaptain

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Great points and stats bart! Carpenter also plays for a division winning team which I am told is a important when considering these awards. And Clemen's team also looks to be playoff bound. Willis' team is done. The difference in Strike outs is also telling. Santana won the Cy Young last year on the strike out stat.

Don't forget about Roger Clemens. A couple of weeks ago it appeared that Clemens may have a shot in the media's eye of winning the Cy Young. At that time Carpenter had Willis beat on every stat and the sentiment seemed to be split between Carpenter and Clemens. Funny how Clemens was quickly discarded by the media once Willis got one more win than Carpenter. One of the arguements the media will use to give it to Willis is Superior ERA to Carpenter while at the same time they will ignore Clemen's far superior ERA to both of them - an erroneous arguement.
 
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Clemens' lack of wins is what will keep him from winning. Not his fault of course, just one of those fluky things that happens periodically. It's really a shame because he is establishing a career wins mark that won't be approached again by another pitcher for a very, very long time, and he should have at least five more than he has this season.
 

Kaptain

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That's true right winger, but my point was that just a couple weeks ago many in the media seemed to be considering Roger for the award. At that time Carpenter had more wins than Dontrelle and was therefore the only other seriously considered. Now that Dontrelle has more wins, how does Clemens suddenly fall out of contention? Nothing has really changed since then for Clemens only that he is being compared to a black pitcher with more wins and a higher ERA this time.
 
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I don't think any starting pitcher with just 13 wins is going to ever win the Cy Young Award. Clemens should be 18-3 instead of 13-8, but the lack of run support is fatal to Roger's chances this year.
 

Kaptain

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Again right winger what you say is true and I don't dispute it. Wins are used as a guideline and often weighted too heavily.
Mariano Riveria is looking like the media favorite for the AL cy Young. Interestingly the stat that is pointed to is ERA. The guideline for relief pitchers is normally Saves. Riveria is third in saves in the American league behind the leader Bob Wickman, but will probably win the award on the ERA stat. If so, shouldn't Roger Clemens be considered also?Edited by: Kaptain Poop
 

JD074

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Kaptain Poop said:
One of the arguements the media will use to give it to Willis is Superior ERA to Carpenter while at the same time they will ignore Clemen's far superior ERA to both of them - an erroneous arguement.

Good point. I think they should be consistent and take a look back at last year: those who feel that Clemens deserved the award over Johnson should give the award to Carpenter. However, if one feels that Johnson deserved the award, then the award should be given to Clemens. In other words, if it's about wins and losses, Carpenter. If it's about stats, Clemens. Either way, it's not Willis- much to the dismay of the black-worshipping media.

"Oh but he has such a great smile! Personality! Charisma! A black American pitcher! Like Bob Gibson! I think I'm in love!"

smiley21.gif
 
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