Marciano Tribute in Ring Mag.

[sport historian]

On the newstands there is a special expanded Ring Magazine with a 62-page tribute to Rocky Marciano. Hopkins-Taylor are on the cover. The Marciano section has actual Ring articles by Nat Fleischer and others covering Rocky's big fights.


A writer named Don Stradley has a piece on how Marciano looks today. Among other things, Stradley observes that younger fans don't think Marciano was all that good because of "the cynical responses generated by modern white fightyers seemed to reach back to infect Marciano. Nonme of this was fair."


Members of this Forum should pick this issue up.

 

[sport historian]

Sorry, I failed to proofread. The actual quote was, "the cynical responses generated by modern white fighters seemed to reach back to infect Marciano. None of this was fair."

 

[Gary]

Thanks for the information-I think many of the White Heavyweights were bums since Marciano. Sad to say many people then get the impression that all White fighters were clowns. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dempsey, Tunney, Jeffries, Greb, Cerdan, Conn, Ketchell, Etc were some of the best fighters of all-time. I believe with the influx of Eastern European fighters many folk are starting to wake up.

 

[sport historian]

I would like to quote further from the piece by Don Stradley. Leading in to the above quote, Stradley wrote, "When Larry Homes insulted Marciano after failing to beat his undefeated streak, there was a sudden bloc of support for the dead champion. But even this episode was used against Marciano. Knee-jerk liberal journalists accused Marciano's fans of using his memory to diminish Holmes, an unpopular black champion. It might be said that Marciano suffered from an unforgiveable whiteness. While being a white champion definately boosted his popularity, it seemed to prevent him from being praised in the same manner of Louis and Ali.


I like that quote, "...Marciano suffered from an unforgiveable whiteness." Still, readers of this Forum should get ahold of this special issue of Ring. It has several articles that show how Marciano was viewed during his fighting days.

 

[KG2422]

Thanks for the headsup sport historian. Sounds like an interesting read.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

What did Larry Holmes say about The Rock?

 

[Gary]

One thing I remember Holmes said after he lost to Michael Spinks was that Rocky couldn't carry his [Holmes]jock strap. But after all these years Rocky still has the record and while Rocky beat Archie Moore a LT.Heavy Champ-Holmes failed to beat Spinks a Lt.Heavy Champ so I guess Holmes really couldn't carry Rocky's jock strap. They had an All-Time Heavyweight Tournament by computer in the 1960's-Rocky Marciano won the Tournament. Cassius Clay cryed and so they put 45 year old Rocky in the ring with a prime Clay. Rocky was bald so they put a hairpiece on him. Rocky chased Clay out of the ring with body shots, Clay would not go back in until he got more money. Remember Rocky was 45 at the time!!!

 

[Bart]

Apparently Rocky at age 46 was still pretty tough. He had trained and lost 50 lbs. in case the mock fight would have turned into a real fight.


http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/printthread.php?t=4030 1


Ali was dancing around jabbing and threw a high jab which just clipped Rocky's wig and knocked it off his head. The filming was stopped while the wig was refitted, amid bemused smiles from several of the observers. Marciano was embarrassed and angry.
He said, "He did that on purpose to make me look stupid. He doesn't have any respect for me at all."
Rocky was assured it was an accident and the filming resumed. However, Ali again jabbed high and sent the wig flying. Rocky was really mad this time, and snarled, "You better not do that again!"

They began once more and immediately Ali flicked the wig off Rocky's head. Without hesitation, Marciano dug a vicious body shot into Ali's midsection, doubling him over. Pacheco said Muhammad actually dropped to the floor and was completely helpless. Quickly Rocky was separated from Ali and Dundee related how they had to take a break until Rocky's temper cooled off. Marciano offered to turn it into a real fight then and there if Ali was game. Only when Ali apologised did the Rock get over his anger. Observers at the filming have said Ali's attitude was different from that point on, as it was obvious Marciano had come to fight if need be rather than be disrespected.
Edited by: Bart

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Good post Bart! I did a little research on that event myself, and I think from then on, Clay had a whole new RESPECT for Rocky that has lasted until this day.

 

[White_Savage]

Bart:
I read some of the posts on that thread. Boy, some real geniuses there!

Amazing how you can identify the negroidals through their attempts at typing 90% of the time.

Anyway, Rocky beats Ali when you have the "Fight Night" game play them against each other to. I guess the creators of Fight Night are just evil White racists though.

 

[Bart]

White Savage, these links have a wealth of Rocky material. The first one is the computer match story and the secondis the main Rocky page.


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//alirock.html


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rock.html

 

[sport historian]

Thanks for the replies. Be sure and go to a newstand and get the magazine. It's not the regular monthly issue, but a special. It has Hopkins-Taylor on the cover.

 

[Bart]

Haven't had a chance to check out the mag yet but I will. Archie Moore quote after being KO'd by Rocky. In the 9th round Marciano knocked him out. When asked which of Marciano's punches it was that hurt him, Archie told reporters, " "Man, they All hurt." He would also say that, "After a fight with Marciano, you felt like you had been beaten all over the upper body with a blackjack or hit with rocks."

 

[White_Savage]

Marciano's only problem is that he never fought an recognized great in his prime. (Oddly, it doesn't seem to give anyone pause when they're praising Jack Johnson). Ezzard and Walcott and Moore, have all been seriously low-rated over the years for the "sin" of loosing to a White heavyweight though. In this way the system is unfair to some blacks, too.

It's worth noting that he fought at 185 against many, many, 200+ pound guys. Today, he'd be able to fight at cruiserweight, maybe even cut down to light-heavyweight, and be a top contender, if not champ.

 

[JD074]

Marciano's only problem is that he never fought an recognized great in his prime.

I'm sure they would've been more recognized if he weren't around. I suppose that's the problem with being undefeated. Except when you're dethroning the champ, the rest of your opponents don't have a chance to become champs themselves because you're in the way! It would be ironic if being undefeated perhaps contributes to him being underrated in that way. If he had had great rivalries, trilogies, etc., maybe his opponents would be respected more, and therefore he would be, too. Just speculating. Ali's losses don't diminish his legacy. Of course he's black, and a "counter-cultural icon." But still. When people think of Ali's fights they probably think of great battles with Frazier, or whoever. Not so with the Rock.

He's my favorite, regardless.

 

[White_Savage]

While we're on Ali...

I don't believe Rocky is the best HW in history, but he would be the picture-perfect fighter to upset Ali. Crowding, swarming sluggers often made him look bad.

Henry Cooper would have scored a KO over him if Ali hadn't been saved by the bell. Oscar Bonavena embarassed Ali for a few rounds, the nobody Chuck Wepner dropped him with a body shot, and of course, Joe Frazier won TWICE, not just once, IMO. A prime Marciano stands at least a 50/50 chance.

And if he had ever lost to White heavy-weight, modern sportswriters would be calling Ali a second-rater.

 

[Bart]

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html


What did some REAL experts think about Marciano as a fighter? "What's so often forgotten is that Marciano was truely a great fighter. It was his will to win that made him unbeatable." Archie Moore

"I had a bad weakness I kept hid throughout my career. I didn't like to be crowded, and Marciano always crowded his opponents. That's why I say I could never have beaten him." Joe Louis, May, 1990 issue of Boxing Illustrated

"Naturally, the first thought that comes to mind would have to be Muhammad Ali. Ali is more my time. But before my time, it would have to be Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano." Marvin Hagler when asked to name the greatest fighter of all time.

"Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him." George Foreman on why he placed Marciano behind Louis as second greatest heavyweight of all time.

"Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis." Joe Frazier

"Well, let's face it. He never got licked. Undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. I mean, how much better can you do than that?"
"Marciano is the most underrated heavyweight of all time. He had so much more than they ever gave him credit for. He was capable of getting those bigger, heavier guys and destroying them." Angelo Dundee.

"This man was one of the greatest champions ever. He refused to accept defeat. And nobody beat him." Sonny Liston.

 

[White_Savage]

Yep.
Not opinions to be disregarded lightly.

I do believe that prime Jim Jeffries, Jack Dempsey, and possibly Joe Louis would have beaten Marciano on most nights. With Joe Louis, it's kind of a question of whether a prime Joe Louis had the power to KO Rocky before Rocky KOed him. Joe was a great fighter, but he KOed/knocked down by much lesser sluggers than Marciano.

Giant George Foreman beat down Joe Frazier convincingly twice, that makes some people doubt the Rock's chances, but if Ali could win with the strategy of tiring the big man out, surely Rocky would have been smart enough to try and use his unmatched stamina to his advantage, and at least have a shot of a late-round KO of Foreman.

 

[Bart]

Ezzard Charles has been ranked in the top five of all-time heavyweights. Rocky was only two years younger than Ezzard and they had two very memorable brutal fights. Consider a few of the fighters Charles had beaten.


http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//Rocky13.html


How good was Charles?...he defeated Joey Maxim five times, Archie Moore three times,Charley Burley twice, Walcott twice, and Joe Louis once. That's 13 victories against future Hall of Fame fighters. For comparison, Ali had 11 and Joe Louis 7 victories over futher HOF fighters.


In their second fight, Ezzard Charles missed an uppercut and hit Marciano with his elbow, splitting his left nostril wide open.
"It's split in half," Goldman graoned in the corner. "How we gonna stop the bleeding?"
"You ain't," Allie Colombo shouted. "There's no way you're going to stop that. Rock, you gotta get him! You gotta get him, or they could stop the fight!"
"Go after him now or you'll bleed to death," Goldman told Marciano.
In a fury, Rocky charged out of his corner, blood flying, and battered Charles to the mat. Ezzard gamely rose at four, but Marciano was relentless, knocking him out with a furious combination of punches.
"It was amazing," New England promoter Sam Silverman said. "The fight couldn't possibly have gone another round without the referee stopping it. They just couldn't stop the bleeding. It had to be an elbow. No punch could make a cut like that. There was Rocky in the middle of a tough fight, but when he had to KO Charles, he did. It was unbelievable."

 

[Bart]

Joe Frazier quote:


"Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight champion of all time. Rocky Marciano is second only to Louis. Where do I rate Ali? Somewhere below me. I beat him, and if I could beat him, no doubt Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano could have beaten him."
-- Joe Frazier