Louis vrs. Schmeling Rigged? Why not?

[White_Savage]

Normally I don't go into conspiracy theories in sports, but here, I must say, some things really are suspicious.

Why did a man who couldn't beat Max the first time they fought not only KO him but break his jaw AND his ribs in the first round? How many other fighter's ribs and jaws did Louis break? Did Max just have especially weak bones (Ha!)? Was there such a difference between Marciano's iron skeleton and Schmeling's bones that the former could take Joe's Sunday punch while the latter was easily shattered by it? Why was Max's manager not allowed to assist him?

Most importantly, wasn't there EVERY reason for the American establishment politicos at the highest levels to want Louis to win, for propaganda reasons? Stuff far worse than fixing a fight has been covertly done by the government so many times that examples would easily fill volumes. FDR personnally met with Joe Louis, told him how important it was for him to win this fight...one wonders what real limits, if any exist for the power of a beloved war-time President. Surely a few boxing officials might be convinced to not inspect a pair of gloves too closely too closely, especially if they really believe they're serving the greater good of their country.

Of course, I can't prove anything, nothing can be proven at this stage of the game. But the sharp differences between two fights by the same two opponents, the legal mumbo-jumbo to keep Schmeling's manager (Jewish btw, Max defied Hitler in this regard), and the tremendous desire for Joe Louis to win at the highest levels of government IMO make anything possible.

 

[Guest]

Normally I don't go into conspiracy theories in sports, but here, I must say, some things really are suspicious.

Why did a man who couldn't beat Max the first time they fought not only KO him but break his jaw AND his ribs in the first round? How many other fighter's ribs and jaws did Louis break? Did Max just have especially weak bones (Ha!)? Was there such a difference between Marciano's iron skeleton and Schmeling's bones that the former could take Joe's Sunday punch while the latter was easily shattered by it? Why was Max's manager not allowed to assist him?

Most importantly, wasn't there EVERY reason for the American establishment politicos at the highest levels to want Louis to win, for propaganda reasons? Stuff far worse than fixing a fight has been covertly done by the government so many times that examples would easily fill volumes. FDR personnally met with Joe Louis, told him how important it was for him to win this fight...one wonders what real limits, if any exist for the power of a beloved war-time President. Surely a few boxing officials might be convinced to not inspect a pair of gloves too closely too closely, especially if they really believe they're serving the greater good of their country.

Of course, I can't prove anything, nothing can be proven at this stage of the game. But the sharp differences between two fights by the same two opponents, the legal mumbo-jumbo to keep Schmeling's manager (Jewish btw, Max defied Hitler in this regard), and the tremendous desire for Joe Louis to win at the highest levels of government IMO make anything possible.

Where is the real evidence the fight was rigged ?


I have only heard a fool named werewolf talk about a ''fix''.


Yet when asked to give real evidence he could not show it.


Why did Louis and Schmelling become friend after the war if Louis so foully ''cheated'' ?


Louis broke alot of jaws and punched hard enought to drive teeth through mouthpieces like he did against 2 fighters. 1 fighter begged the ref to stop the fight because Louis punched so hard.


Louis was on of the most precise punchers efver his speed combined with his power made him a very lethal puncher. When he was past his prime Louis lost some of his speed and thus some of his punching power


Putting metal in gloves would break the hands of the fighter throwing punches. Where Louis hands broken after the fight ?. A broken hand back then was a potentially carreer ending injury.


Did you even see the fight ?


Should i list all the fights that had differnet outcomes in the rematch ?

 

[White_Savage]

*sigh* Looks like it's time to ban pugnus, once again.

It's not one factor that makes me suspicious it's possible, but a combination of factors...Max's manager being kept away from the fight, the war time propaganda boost that a Louis victory would give, the differing outcome of the fights. As metal breaking Louis's hands, not nessecarily. For instance, leather gloves lined with lead powder are still being made, they are very effective and do not hurt your hands, and would be much more difficult to detect than say anything so crude as sticking an iron plate in your gloves. As I say, it's a possibility, even a probablity, considering the levels of government involved, but not something that is provable at this late stage. As for Max becoming friends with Louis, anything is possible, post WWII Germans havedone alot of dumb things. And Schmeling apparently suspected something was not right with the Louis-Braddock fight at least, as his article I posted shows.

The Jewish Communist Israel Cohen as much as said we will make war on America by replacing white heroes with ******** in entertainment and sports at about the same time period, so anything is possible in regards to sports being rigged, even if this individual fight were completely on the level.

 

[Guest]

*sigh* Looks like it's time to ban pugnus, once again.

It's not one factor that makes me suspicious it's possible, but a combination of factors...Max's manager being kept away from the fight, the war time propaganda boost that a Louis victory would give, the differing outcome of the fights. As metal breaking Louis's hands, not nessecarily. For instance, leather gloves lined with lead powder are still being made, they are very effective and do not hurt your hands, and would be much more difficult to detect than say anything so crude as sticking an iron plate in your gloves. As I say, it's a possibility, even a probablity, considering the levels of government involved, but not something that is provable at this late stage. As for Max becoming friends with Louis, anything is possible, post WWII Germans havedone alot of dumb things. And Schmeling apparently suspected something was not right with the Louis-Braddock fight at least, as his article I posted shows.

The Jewish Communist Israel Cohen as much as said we will make war on America by replacing white heroes with ******** in entertainment and sports at about the same time period, so anything is possible in regards to sports being rigged, even if this individual fight were completely on the level.

So if someone proves you wrong you just ban him right ?.


In other words if you cant win the debate just run away from it.


Louis vs Braddock was unfair to Schmelling true but Schmelling was a foreign fighter Louis an American fighter it makes sense that the powers that be would favor a Louis vs Braddock fight over Braddock vs Schmelling.


That is not proof of a ''fix'' in Louis vs Schmelling just Business as usual in boxing Max was not the first foreign fighter to be treated unfairly he wont be the last thats how the game is played.


Again give real proof of the ''fix''

 

[Gary]

I don't think Louis& Schmeling was fixed.I believe both fights were on the level.Braddock should have fought Schmeling instead of Louis because Schmeling won the first fight.The US media couldn't take a chance on a German winning the title at that time so Louis got the shot.The same US media all these years later can't bear the thought of a Russian Champion.
Schemling proved to be a much better man then Louis-Louis died a poor bum at an early age.Schmeling died well past 90 a millionaire!

 

[Bart]

The poor boxers were often used as pawns. most of the managers, writers and promoters were Jewish so the corruption was probably HUGE. Check out this article about Schmeling, Louis and Braddock written from a Jewish perspective.


[url]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/louis. html[/url]
Mike Jacobs recognized that American boxing crowds, and particularly the numerous Jewish fans, ached to see both Schmeling and Primo Carnera, an Italian heavyweight and symbol of fascist might, defeated by an American fighter. In the early 1930s, Schmeling and Carnera had each briefly held the world title. The first fight Jacobs lined up for Joe Louis was in 1935, with Carnera, whom Louis knocked out in six rounds. The same year Louis knocked out Max Baer in the fourth round, setting up a showdown with Schmeling to determine who would be in line to fight the reigning champion, Jim Braddock.
While many in the Jewish public longed for Louis â€â€￾ or anyone else â€â€￾ to conquer Schmeling and embarrass Hitler, some Jewish groups opposed giving Schmeling a platform. Several of them applied pressure on Mike Jacobs to cancel the Louis-Schmeling fight. Jacobs replied that Louis would defeat Schmeling, giving the lie to Nazi propaganda. More than 45,000 fans filled Yankee Stadium expecting to see the "Brown Bomber" defeat Schmeling. They left disappointed. After a lopsided battering, Louis was knocked out in the twelfth round. Hitler cabled Schmeling to congratulate him on his "splendid patriotic achievement."
Schmeling had earned the right to fight for Braddock's crown, but Jacobs and Braddock's Jewish manager, Joe Gould, decided the American public would rather not run the risk of seeing Schmeling, as one sportswriter put it, "take the title back to Germany and present it to Adolf Hitler for the German Museum." Jacobs guaranteed Braddock a whopping $500,000 payday to fight Louis instead, and the match was made. Louis knocked out Braddock and became champion. As historian Peter Levine observes, the fight "launched [Louis's] reign as one of boxing's greatest champions and secured his place as a hero of an oppressed American black population. It also set the scene for one more battle with Max Schmeling that enhanced Louis's status as a hero for all Americans." One might add: especially for Jews.

 

[White_Savage]

Has skullduggery ever gone on in boxing? Yes. Over as little as a few bets? Yes again. So is it possible some of the most powerful men in history could have decided they didn't want one of the most publicly signifigant boxing matches in history left to chance? No, of course not, that's just paranoid and crazy. The U.S. government has never done anything like say, trying to raise a sunken Commie sub off the bottom, tested radiation on mental patients, murdered a woodsman's family because he wouldn't become their spy, etc, and so forth. I mean, come on, rigging a boxing match is soooo much worse and more difficult than those things

 

[Guest]

Has skullduggery ever gone on in boxing? Yes. Over as little as a few bets? Yes again. So is it possible some of the most powerful men in history could have decided they didn't want one of the most publicly signifigant boxing matches in history left to chance? No, of course not, that's just paranoid and crazy. The U.S. government has never done anything like say, trying to raise a sunken Commie sub off the bottom, tested radiation on mental patients, murdered a woodsman's family because he wouldn't become their spy, etc, and so forth. I mean, come on, rigging a boxing match is soooo much worse and more difficult than those things

Find proof yet that the Freemasons and Illuminati are secretly running the world ?.


The only proof you have is your own crackpot theories

 

[White_Savage]

Insult is the last refuge of the out-argued.

Whomever believes that events are usually as they appear on surface does not take into account the complexity and deviousness of human behavior. Viewed from a suffecient temporal distance, history is like a long series of conspiracies. To believe all events can be judged by their mere surface appearance is naivity that borders on insanity.

 

[White_Savage]

BTW, you do know that the 3 examples I mentioned are true, proven, and no longer "secret" from the public right? The government hired Howard Hughes to raise a sunken Russian sub off the sea bottom using a ship called the Glomar Explorer, whose "cover story" was vacuaming manganese nodules off the sea bottom. The radiation offenses are also well known, and the murdered woodsman was of course Randy Weaver. Or maybe you just can't bring yourself to impune the government that gives you your cheese...

 

[Guest]

BTW, you do know that the 3 examples I mentioned are true, proven, and no longer "secret" from the public right? The government hired Howard Hughes to raise a sunken Russian sub off the sea bottom using a ship called the Glomar Explorer, whose "cover story" was vacuaming manganese nodules off the sea bottom. The radiation offenses are also well known, and the murdered woodsman was of course Randy Weaver. Or maybe you just can't bring yourself to impune the government that gives you your cheese...

Prove that Louis vs Schmelling was rigged .


Where is the proof ?????


Again you only have your crackpot theory and nothing else.

 

[White_Savage]

I could just as easily ask you to prove it WASN'T rigged.

There was more motive to rig this fight, motive belonging to some of the most powerful and corrupt people in the world, than was the case with any other sporting event in history.

Or, do you honestly think the man who unceasingly provoked Japan and then let their "surprise" attack occur so he could lead us into WWII without breaking a promise to keep us out, do you think such a man would have even one qualm about rigging a boxing match?

 

[Guest]

I could just as easily ask you to prove it WASN'T rigged.

There was more motive to rig this fight, motive belonging to some of the most powerful and corrupt people in the world, than was the case with any other sporting event in history.

Or, do you honestly think the man who unceasingly provoked Japan and then let their "surprise" attack occur so he could lead us into WWII without breaking a promise to keep us out, do you think such a man would have even one qualm about rigging a boxing match?

If the fight was rigged Joe and Max in all probability would never have become friends


Max was able to exploit a flaw in Joe's arsenal in the first fight in that Joe dropped his left after jabbing. Joe corrected that flaw in the second fight and never allowed Max to get set


Joe did'nt train as hard for the first fight as he should have he underestimated Max and paid for it. Joe trained harder for the rematch then he ever did.


Joe was able to do alot of damage if he hitwith hiscombosa man strong enough to punch teeth through mouthguards . Spin a 6,5 Buddy Baer a 180 degrees with 1 Right hand was certainly capable of doing the kind of damage he did to Schmelling in the second fight .

 

[White_Savage]

"Hey Max, you know that fight we had? It was rigged, you know. Had to do it, because your leader at the time was such a blackhearted monster and all you German were the minions of Satan, sorry..."

Not going to happen, thats even more unrealistic than expecting Clinton would fess up to Hilly about Monica. Given the situation, if it happened, Joe Lous and all the persons involved quite possibly felt they were doing their patriotic duty.

 

[Bart]

Another revealing portrait of Schmeling which complicates the debate even more. The moreI read the more curious the situation appears. Max may have been much more sypathetic to Louis and the Jews than to Hitler as the pressledus to believe. Who can say what transpired behind the scenes from Max's victory in 36 to the defeat in 38?


http://www.raoulwallenberg.net/Schmeling/maxeng.htm

 

[White_Savage]

Right. He was no Nazi at all, poor guy caught in the middle like most folks really.

 

[bigunreal]

White Savage-



I think it's a good bet that the second Louis-Schmelling fight was
fixed. As you mention, a lot of factors were involved, not the least of
which was the world situation, which desperately "needed" an American
to beat this symbol of Nazism. Because I believe the world is run from
behind the scenes, by masters no one elects, I think that this fight
would have been one of those events that could not be permitted to turn
out the other way (Schmelling beating Louis). Like more recent
examples, in sports and society in general-Billie Jean King beating
Bobby Riggs, O.J. Simpson getting acquitted, David Duke losing the
governor's race in Louisiana, among countless other examples-there are
some contests that, in the minds of those who rule our world, must have
a certain ouitcome. The time peiod in question here (the 1930s-1940s)
was full of conspiracies and intrigue. Considering how the powers
that be then railroaded a man they knew to be innocent- Bruno Richard
Hauptmann-and allowed him to go to the electric chair for a crime he
obviously couldn't have commited, would they have hesitated to fix a
prizefight in order to achieve a propaganda coup? Just a few years
after this fight, FDR and co. would basically lead the "dirty sneaky
rotten Japs" into Pearl Harbor and achieved a much bigger objective,
that of whipping up the greatest war hysteria in history, by doing so.

 

[Guest]

White Savage-

I think it's a good bet that the second Louis-Schmelling fight was fixed. As you mention, a lot of factors were involved, not the least of which was the world situation, which desperately "needed" an American to beat this symbol of Nazism. Because I believe the world is run from behind the scenes, by masters no one elects, I think that this fight would have been one of those events that could not be permitted to turn out the other way (Schmelling beating Louis). Like more recent examples, in sports and society in general-Billie Jean King beating Bobby Riggs, O.J. Simpson getting acquitted, David Duke losing the governor's race in Louisiana, among countless other examples-there are some contests that, in the minds of those who rule our world, must have a certain ouitcome. The time peiod in question here (the 1930s-1940s) was full of conspiracies and intrigue. Considering how the powers that be then railroaded a man they knew to be innocent- Bruno Richard Hauptmann-and allowed him to go to the electric chair for a crime he obviously couldn't have commited, would they have hesitated to fix a prizefight in order to achieve a propaganda coup? Just a few years after this fight, FDR and co. would basically lead the "dirty sneaky rotten Japs" into Pearl Harbor and achieved a much bigger objective, that of whipping up the greatest war hysteria in history, by doing so.

In other words any decision that does not turn out the way you personally like like too was rigged right ?.


Again Where is the real proof that Louis vs Schmelling was rigged ?





I have heard this tripe for 5 years and i have yet to see any real proof that the fight was ''rigged''

 

[White_Savage]

fistfighter, where the hell is the real proof that ANY fight in history was rigged? Prove to me that ONE fight was rigged, just one. Present real physical evidence NOW dadgummit! What, were NO fights rigged?

Do you know how absurd you're being? You know as well as I do plenty of fights are rigged, always have been. You know there was chicanery with Braddock vrs. Louis, over the same damn issue, keeping the belt out of the hands of a German. You (should) know the U.S. government is capable of anything. So why the hell won't you even entertain the possibility that the MOST POLITICALLY IMPORTANT FIGHT in history, which was fought on U.S. soil, might not have been left to chance by the powers-that-be? Can you answer me THAT question?

And if you say FDR and the U.S. government DIDN'T rig this _most important fight in history_, even though they certainly had the means, what does that say about them, leaving it to chance like that? What, you think FDR was an idiotEdited by: White_Savage

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Good points White_Savage, I doubt fits-fighter has any proof of anything, because he obviously doesn't deal in reality.

 

[Guest]

fistfighter, where the hell is the real proof that ANY fight in history was rigged? Prove to me that ONE fight was rigged, just one. Present real physical evidence NOW dadgummit! What, were NO fights rigged?

Do you know how absurd you're being? You know as well as I do plenty of fights are rigged, always have been. You know there was chicanery with Braddock vrs. Louis, over the same damn issue, keeping the belt out of the hands of a German. You (should) know the U.S. government is capable of anything. So why the hell won't you even entertain the possibility that the MOST POLITICALLY IMPORTANT FIGHT in history, which was fought on U.S. soil, might not have been left to chance by the powers-that-be? Can you answer me THAT question?

And if you say FDR and the U.S. government DIDN'T rig this _most important fight in history_, even though they certainly had the means, what does that say about them, leaving it to chance like that? What, you think FDR was an idiot

Lamotta vs Fox and that was just from memory Lamottta had to''lose'' down to get a a title shot in the future . In Holmes vs Cooney everything was set in Cooneys favor because they wanted to see a white champion Holmes upset the applecart by knocking Cooney out and ending that bullsh*t. Some Graziano fights where also reputed to not have been on the level.


i can name other examples of fights proven to be rigged .


Now prove that Louis vs Schmelling was rigged.


And why would'nt FDR have confidence that ayoung improved Louis could'nt beat Schmelling ?.


Have you actually ever watched Louis fights ? or are you just parroting what you have read ?.


Dont talk boxing with me you are out of your league.





Edited by: fistfighter

 

[White_Savage]

Ha!

You haven't PROVEN anything!

Quit slandering honest fighters! I want a written, signed, and witnessed confessions from the principals those fights were rigged, otherwise you're just spouting theories!

 

[Guest]

Ha!

You haven't PROVEN anything!

Quit slandering honest fighters! I want a written, signed, and witnessed confessions from the principals those fights were rigged, otherwise you're just spouting theories!

Lamotta ADMITTED that he took a dive against Fox. Again Lamotta ADMITTED he took a dive against Fox.


Jake LaMotta vs. Billy Fox
Nov. 14, 1947


LaMotta had fought 79 times before he met Fox on Nov. 14, 1947. And not one of those matches was a title shot.


"I was an unofficial champion for a long time," LaMotta said.


LaMotta said his brother Joe made the arrangements for the fix. He didn't know any of the details, just how it was supposed to go down. LaMotta went down in the fourth round.


"I don't even like to talk about it," LaMotta said. "It's the worst thing I ever did in the boxing business. I'm sorry I ever did it."


LaMotta said he never took any money for losing to Fox. But he did it because he was promised a title shot against middleweight champ Marcel Cerdan of France.


"But even that was a double-cross," LaMotta said. "After the Fox fight, they made me pay 20 grand under the table to get the title shot."


On June 16, 1949, LaMotta beat Cerdan, who injured his shoulder in the fourth round and had to quit in the 10th. Cerdan was killed in a plane crash on his way to New York for the rematch four months later.


LaMotta testified before Congress about his role in fixing the Fox fight.


"I told them what I knew, but my brother Joe had made all the arrangements," LaMotta said. "When it was his time to testify, he took the Fifth Amendment."

Dont debate boxing with me you are just gonna end up hurting yourself. Stick to spouting theories about the ''invisible masters''


Edited by: fistfighter

 

[White_Savage]

Great, so the only people we're allowed to suspect are those who admit their misdeeds? That blood trail my lead right to my door, but I didn't do it officer, honest....

 

[Guest]

Great, so the only people we're allowed to suspect are those who admit their misdeeds? That blood trail my lead right to my door, but I didn't do it officer, honest....

Did you or did you not ask me for 1 example of a rigged fight ?


I can offer more but why should i ?


You have yet to prove anything regarding Louis vs Schmelling 2 and you never will.