Let's start over.....

[Guest]

...and see what happens.


Yep Brutal here.


Here's my problem.


I'm from central Cali, as a kid growing up, nobody was giving the black kids anything the white kids weren't getting. This area of the country has given the track world....


Tommie Smith Lemoore....had a brother named Ernie who hurdled at Oregon St


Lee Evans Madera


Randy Williams Fresno


Leamon King Delano


Rafer Johnson Kingsburg....His brother was HOF footballer Jim Johnson of the Niners


Maxie Parks Fresno


Bob Mathias Tulare


All Olympic medalists. Only Mathias being white.


Then there were national caliber athletes....


Sam Davis Fresno


Joel and Tom Andrews Bakersfield


Jerry Wilson Fresno


Clim Jackson Delano


Larance Jones Lemoore


Ken Thomas Hanford....his brother Jewerl, played for the Rams


Jerry White Corcoran


I grew up in Visalia. The fastest kids in school, while I was in high school. were Ernie Russell and Milton Edwards....yes like those above, they were black. They didn't get any special treatment. The fastest kid in the league was Ocie Early another black kid from Tulare.


I'm sure all of you out there, have a similiar story. I'm betting where you came from,you also saw the great black athletes. They are special treatment in grade school?


Right now my son, who is 12, goes to a school where there is only one black kid at his grade level. Yep you guessed it, he's the fastest kid in that grade. I've been watching that sort of thing all my life. I never questioned it, I simply assumed it was common knowledge that black's can run.


Now you can ban me yet again, or somebody can tell me how I'm wrong about this. I will try to be more real. Been into football/track since around 1963. I'm a bit of an historian, going back to the days of Lon Myers in track and Jim Thorpe in football.


There simply aren't white athletes who run like a Gale Sayers, Reggie Bush or Barry Sanders. They just don't have that speed/agility combo. You disagree?












































Edited by: RaZor

 

[KG2422]

I never questioned it, I simply assumed it was common knowledge that black's can run

There are many more Blacks who are morbidly obese than there are who "can run". There is all kinds of "common knowledge" about Blacks. Do you agree with all of it?

 

[Guest]

I never questioned it, I simply assumed it was common knowledge that black's can run

There are many more Blacks who are morbidly obese than there are who "can run". There is all kinds of "common knowledge" about Blacks. Do you agree with all of it?

Sure!


Would you agree that black "athletes" who sprint, are the fastest sprinters in the world?

 

[KG2422]

I never questioned it, I simply assumed it was common knowledge that black's can run

There are many more Blacks who are morbidly obese than there are who "can run". There is all kinds of "common knowledge" about Blacks. Do you agree with all of it?

Sure! 


 Would you agree that black "athletes" who sprint, are the fastest sprinters in the world? 

I think Whites are making a comeback in the sprinting events behind Wariner and Co. Our race is good at so many different things. We are either the best or at least second best in every sport. We are well represented in fields outside of athletics as well. Our versatility is not matched by any other group of people. It doesn't bother me that there have been many fast Blacks. Have I conceded sprinting to Blacks? Hell no. I'm confident that there are members of our race who can compete and win in any sport (or any other endeavor). Once again, we are the most versatile group. We are not concentrated in any one sport or even a few sports. This versatility (not just in sports) has been the reason our civilizations have been the most dynamic. We were "diverse" before the term was bastardized by left wing journalists.Edited by: KG2422

 

[Guest]

You are both right and wrong.


Yes whites are the most diverse, no doubt about that. No whites will never dominate anything having to do with speed, like them old delta blues that is a black man's world. The 400 really isn't about blazin' speed. That's more of an endurance/speed event. There the white athlete can win. The 100/200 are about blinding speed, there the white athlete cannot win.


Why do we never see the big 220 pounder white running back with speed? Why do we rarely see the tall white reciever with speed? What do white countries like France,Great Britian and Canada have blacks as their fastest sprinters?


Edited by: RaZor

 

[KG2422]

John Riggins was a big running back with speed. He'd be even faster and bigger with today's training regimens. Let me ask you something. How come all White SEC and SWC football teams continued to win national championships in football and basketball AFTER the other conferences integrated? Now, the White Southern athlete is virtually unrecruited despite our continued existence.

 

[Guest]

John Riggins was a big running back with speed. He'd be even faster and bigger with today's training regimens. Let me ask you something. How come all White SEC and SWC football teams continued to win national championships in football and basketball AFTER the other conferences integrated? Now, the White Southern athlete is virtually unrecruited despite our continued existence.

John Riggins was not a breakaway back. He was a power back. Look at Bo Jackson,Jamal Lewis,Herschel Walker. Jim Brown was 228 pounds.


How far back are you going there? Do you think all white teams could compete today? Of course not! So why didn't the SEC conference have one Olympic 100m man until Harvey Glance? Read up on Jerry Levias the first black player in the old SWC. Youreally havenever noticed the physical differences have you?

 

[KG2422]

Yes, I think all White teams can compete. White football teams win state championships in Texas all of the time. All White basketbal teams have taken gold in the most recent world championships and olympics.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I think all White teams can compete. White football teams win state championships in Texas all of the time. All White basketbal teams have taken gold in the most recent world championships and olympics.

Do you really think the best footballers are white? Do you honestly believe the best b-ballers are white? Come on man ya can't be serious.


Were are all those white Texas footballers in the NFL? Look at the NBA teams left. What do we see?


Do you really think white db's can cover speedy black receivers? Give me one, just one, great speedy elusive white running back in the last 20 years.

 

[KG2422]

Yes, I think all White teams can compete. White football teams win state championships in Texas all of the time. All White basketbal teams have taken gold in the most recent world championships and olympics.

Do you really think the best footballers are white? Do you honestly believe the best b-ballers are white? Come on man ya can't be serious.


Were are all those white Texas footballers in the NFL? Look at the NBA teams left. What do we see?


  Do you really think white db's can cover speedy black receivers? Give me one, just one, great speedy elusive white running back in the last 20 years.

You don't get it. The Whites don't get to play at the Div.1 college level despite beating the Black teams. We may not be as flashy. We just win. I guess that's boring. If they don't play in college, they're not going to the NFL. And basketball- you're talking about players and I'm talking about teams. But if you want to talk about the best individuals, Steve Nash is playing the best basketball in the NBA right now. Nowitzki is right there with him.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I think all White teams can compete. White football teams win state championships in Texas all of the time. All White basketball teams have taken gold in the most recent world championships and olympics.

Do you really think the best footballers are white? Do you honestly believe the best b-ballers are white? Come on man ya can't be serious.



Were are all those white Texas footballers in the NFL? Look at the NBA teams left. What do we see?



Do you really think white db's can cover speedy black receivers? Give me one, just one, great speedy elusive white running back in the last 20 years.

You don't get it. The Whites don't get to play at the Div.1 college level despite beating the Black teams. We may not be as flashy. We just win. I guess that's boring. If they don't play in college, they're not going to the NFL. And basketball- you're talking about players and I'm talking about teams. But if you want to talk about the best individuals, Steve Nash is playing the best basketball in the NBA right now. Nowitzki is right there with him.

I do get it and have been getting it for a long time. If you have the talent, you'll be there, just ask Jeremy Wariner and Steve Nash. What about Jeremy Bloom? He's in the NFL! There just aren't very many white athletes with the speed that it takes to play major college or NFL football. Those that do, play!


I'm sorry bro but you simply aren't talking reality. The fast white kids from the valley all got their shot. That white fullback on USC, is from Clovis. His name is Han*******. He was a star around here. Why didn't he get shined? He can play that's why! Sorry man but I've been watching this stuff for about 45 years now and you're wrong.


Remember Luke Staley out of ...hmmmm...where did he play? Anyway....didn't he get drafted? Ya see he had talent! Remember Don Beebe? How about Dwight Clarke? They could play and did.Edited by: RaZor

 

[KG2422]

I do get it and have been getting it for a long time. If you have the talent you'll be there, just ask Jeremy Wariner and Steve Nash. What about Jeremy Bloom? He's in the NFL!  There just aren't very many white athlets with the speed that it takes to play major college or NFL football. Those that do, play!


I'm sorry bro but you simply aren't talking reality. The fast white kids from the valley all got their shot. That white fullback on USC, is from Clovis. His name is Han*******. He was a star around here. Why didn't he get shined? He can play that's why! Sorry man but I've been watching this stuff for about 45 years now and you're wrong.

Steve Nash only received one scholarship offer. Kyle Bell only recieved one scholarship offer. Mike Hass received no offers despite a stellar high school career. He got drafted in the 6th round despite leading the nation in receiving. Brock Forsey was a walk on. Steve Largent wasn't drafted. This is the case with so many of the White athletes that do make it. How many could have made it if they were given the chance?

 

[KG2422]

How about Dwight Clarke?

Dwight Clark was drafted in the 10th round. Any Black wideouts as accomplished as Clark who were drafted in the 10th round?

 

[Kaptain]

Brutal, do you even think before you post? Luke Staley had zero NFL carries and you say he got a shot!

You ask us to name a white running back in the NFL in the last twenty years to prove your arguement. That's the very question you should be trying to explain. Was there a some genetically altering nuclear radiation disaster that made white running backs suddenly inferior? How do you explain the sudden disappearance of white running and defensive backs that took place 20 years ago even though the NFL has been fully integrated for over 50 years?

Twenty years ago Steve Largent was the greatest wide reciever of all time and John Riggins just retired as perhaps the most dominate running back of all time (superbowl mvp, and single season TD leader).

Your arguement is the same as many black supremacists. You continually point out the world fastest sprinters. None of which ever make it in the NFL despite the many times they have tried the experiment of converting true world class sprinters to football. That's because being fast with featherweigt shoes and tiny shorts is a bit different than being fast with full pads.

Speed is measurable. Thus, we have proven time and time again on this site that fast whites don't get the same opportunity as fast blacks. Or, as slow blacks do for that matter. You would be better off arguing some mythical superior ability in the areas like "hip swiveltude".

BTW, brutal, you used to make similar arguements of black dominance in the boxing forum. Where have you been?

 

[SteveB]

Brutal, this is getting sooo old. Nobody here is saying that there are not great black athletes. You keep trying to convince us of that, and we agree. The point is that there are a lot of great white athletes also who do not get an equal shot.

Yes, the best high school football teams are white. In Texas where high school football is a religion, Southlake Carroll is 63-1 over the past 5 seasons with 4 state championships. They run a spread offense where speed is essential and they routinely destroy the black high schools by 40 or 50 points. The only loss they have had was to an all white Katy High School in the 2003 state championship game. The 5A state championship game over the past 5 years has featured SL Carroll, Katy, Smithson Valley, and Lufkin. Of those teams, only Lufkin has more than 1 or 2 starting black kids. Given all of that, the black schools still send the majority of the top recruits to the Big 12.

Here is a question for you, Brutal. What do Jerome Bettis, Emmitt Smith, Earl Campbell, Jerry Rice, and Jamaal Lewis have in common? Let me give you the answer. All are among the most productive offensive players in football history, yet have very average speed. Kinda kills your black are faster therefore better argument.Edited by: SteveB

 

[Bunnyman]

Didn't a white man hold the record in the 200 until very recently? I think it was an Italian or a Frenchman.

 

[Don Wassall]

Why do we never see the big 220 pounder white running back with speed?

You love lists, here's my list just of guys who have played in the past five years:


Sean Bennett -- 6-1 230 lbs. with 4.4 speed. After being a standout tailback in I-AA Bennett transferred to Northwestern and was immediately turned into a blocking fullback. Was drafted surprisingly high by the Giants, actually started a game then got injured and never received any other significant playing time before ending up in the CFL.


Travis Jervey -- 6-1 225 lbs. with 4.4 speed or better. Finished 3rd in NFL's Fastest Man Contest, but was used only as a White Special Teams Demon. In '98, when Green Bay's three black tailbacks were injured and Jervey had to be used, Mike Holmgren treated him like he was a joke.


Rob Konrad -- 6-3 250 lbs. with a 40 time of 4.5 though I've also read 4.4. Record setting high school tailback and extremely productive when allowed to run at Syracuse, was immediately converted into a blocking fullback in the NFL.


Luke Staley -- 6-1 227 lbs. with 4.4 speed. Doak Walker Award winner never had a single carry in the NFL. Despite stellar high school career in Oregon, BYU was the only college to recruit him as a running back. In an article Staley said he believed this was done because of his race.


Jesse Lumsden -- 6-2 226 lbs. with 4.4 speed. All-time best Canadian college runner, went undrafted and was cut by Seattle before the first exhibition game last year. Now with the Redskins. Good luck, Jesse, you'll need it!


Heath Evans -- 6-0 250 lbs. with 4.59 speed. Great high school rusher, led Auburn in rushing as a junior and was used in the NFL only as a blocking fullback until injuries forced him to tailback in New England last season, where he did quite well. Is currently listed as the number two blocking fullback on the Patriots depth chart.


Mike Alstott -- 6-1 250 lbs. with 4.5 speed when he entered the NFL but a decade of blocking has slowed him since. Left Purdue as the school's all-time leading rusher but was never allowed to be a featured runner in the NFL.


Of these seven, only Alstott has been allowed to run the ball on more than a token or emergency basis in the NFL despite their extremely impressive"measurables" and proven productivity in college.


Ok, now give me your list of "big 220 pounderblack running backs with speed" from the past five years. The only two I can think of comparable to my list are DeShaun Foster and Ronnie Brown, both first round draft picks who will be given years and years to prove themselves in the NFL.


As I wrote in a post last year, here's Mel Kiper's description of Brown leading up to the '05 NFL Draft compared to how whites with similar measurables are described:


'Had an outstanding workout at the combine, running the 40 in 4.48 while weighing around 230, which only adds to the already impressive profile Brown has. He showed against several opponents in 2004 that he is one of the most complete backs in the nation, running and catching the ball with equal skill. He averaged over six yards per carry this season and had 34 catches. Brown has the size, instincts, power and quickness to put up unbelievable numbers and would have been a Heisman candidate had he been the clear-cut No. 1 on the depth chart. An explosive powerhouse with speed and strength.'

"What struck me right away when reading Kiper's assessment of Brown is that [white running backs] Luke Staley and Travis Jervey both weighed close to 230 pounds and both ran even faster than 4.48 coming out of college, and Staley was coming off one of the very best years a college running back ever had. Staley was drafted in the final round and never given a chance, and Jervey was always treated like a joke. They weren't deserving of a chance while a black with similar physical attributes 'has the size, instincts, power and quickness to put up unbelievable numbers. . .' and may be the first pick in the draft. If you want to see the essence of the caste system in black and white (pun intended), there it is."


As for this year's highly touted black running backs, Laurence Maroney, Reggie Bush and Joseph Addai are all listed at 5-11, and DeAngelo Williams is 5-9. All weigh in the 200 to 214 pound range.


LenDale White has comparable size and speed to Heath Evans -- 6-0 245 lbs. and 4.6 speed. White will be given every opportunity to be a featured tailback; Evans will continue to be given every opportunity to be a career blocking back.
Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[White Shogun]

Why do we constantly bring up sprinting speed when discussing football?

When you run a football, you don't run in a straight line. You aren't timed by a stopwatch. You're not running half-naked with only a thin piece of leather over your feet.

The 40 might give you a barometer of how fast a back might be, but really only in comparison to other candidates. How fast was the NFL All-Time leading rusher, Emmitt Smith? What kind of line does the team have? Do they have a competent quarterback? Are they ground 'n pound or slash 'n burn? Have you ever heard of JEROME BETTIS?????

It is a ridiculous assertion that one must run below a 4.4 40 to be a great running back.

It is a more ridiculous assertion to say that not even one white man in the United States is capable of playing at least as well as the worst of running backs playing in the NFL right now.

Trolls first try to make the running back position about pure speed. When they lose this argument, then it is about hip flexibility or some other such nonsense.

There are a number of intangibles that go into being a successful running back, not the least of which are strength and power, which plenty of whites display regularly on the playing field. If the opportunity to play running back was truly awarded based on ability, I'd estimate that at least half of the backs in the game would be white.


Edited by: White Shogun