Lesnar vs. Carwin - UFC 106

[DixieDestroyer]

Looks like the 2 White monsters will face off in November at UFC 106. I'll give Brock the slight wrestling advantage, but Carwin may have heavier hands.

Lesnar-Carwin to Headline UFC 106

Thursday, August 20, 2009
by Greg Savage (greg@sherdog.com)

UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar will meet Shane Carwin in his second title defense at UFC 106 on Nov. 21 at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas.

Sherdog.com has confirmed the news through several sources with knowledge of the agreement. MMAMadness.com was the first to report on the card shift that will see Carwin move from a scheduled bout against Cain Velasquez at UFC 104.

Carwin has not answered calls for comment, but posted a message on his official Web Site Wednesday night.

"I can't confirm or deny anything. I can just tell you guys that I am training harder then ever and your support and loyalty will carry me through any fight they send my way,"Â￾ he wrote.

Scheduling problems led to the dissolution of the previously agreed to Carwin-Velasquez matchup, according to a UFC source speaking anonymously because they were not authorized speak.

Lesnar, the company's top pay-per-view draw, had minor surgery after defeating Frank Mir in July, creating uncertainty as to when he would be available to fight again.

His quick recovery allowed the promotion to bring him back in November, but with all of the top heavyweights already scheduled to fight, it was necessary to break up one of those bouts.

Carwin became a buzzworthy suitor for the champion following swift first-round technical knockouts over Neil Wain at UFC 89 and Gabriel Gonzaga at UFC 96. Carwin, a 1999 NCAA Div. II wrestling champion, battled back from an early knockdown from the Brazilian to finish Gonzaga with his heavy hands.

Lesnar, 32, unified the heavyweight title and avenged his only loss with a second-round drubbing of former interim champion Frank Mir at UFC 100 last July. Lesnar, a 2000 NCAA Div. I heavyweight champion, won the title against perennial competitor Randy Couture by second-round TKO at UFC 91 last November. It was the former World Wrestling Entertainment star's fourth professional bout.

***Reference article...

 

[Deacon]

I'll be rooting for Brock Lesnar.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Brock's the more Nordic/Aryan of the two, but given his "build like a black man" (caste-esque) comments I'll be pulling for the more down-to-earth/humble Carwin.

I'll give Brock the edge in size/power, maybe a slight wrestling edge (they were both college All-Americans, but Brock competed at the D1 level). They're probably neck & neck on athletism...as Carwin was a college AA in wrestling & football, and Brock ran a 4.6 40 y/d with the Vikings. Carwin has shown to have heavier hands, but has more fights (& Lesnar's dropped almost every opponent with a punch...Mir 1, Herring, Randy, etc.).

If it stays standing, I'll give Carwin the edge...if it goes to the mat, Lesnar is bigger with slightly better wrestling. Gabe Gonzaga took Carwin down (prior to getting KO'd), so certainly Lesnar can take Carwin to the mat (unless he gets caught with a punch early). My gut instinct is that Lesnar wins by TKO, but I'll be pulling for Shane.Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Fellow Heavyweight MMA monster Ron "H2O" Waterman gives his input on Carwin vs. Lesnar...

Mutual Friend: Waterman Handicaps Carwin vs. Lesnar

Sunday, September 06, 2009
by Jake Rossen (jrossen@sherdog.com)

Opinions on Nov. 21's Brock Lesnar-Shane Carwin meeting -- more demolition derby than fight considering their combined five hundred-something pounds -- aren't in short supply. But no observers have quite the same perspective as Ron Waterman, Carwin's high school wrestling coach and Lesnar's roommate during a developmental stint in a WWE training league.

Waterman, 16-6 as a pro and a massively-built collegiate wrestler in his own right, fights Bobby Lashley in November. He spoke with Sherdog.com about choosing sides in a month that's quickly turning into a Toho film.

Sherdog.com: You coached Carwin as a high school wrestler. How much did he weigh at the time?

Waterman: Shane actually wound up wrestling at 171 pounds. But he was a big kid. He had to cut a lot of weight to get down there.

Sherdog.com: You also got him into professional fighting. After training with you early on, he moved to another camp. Why did your paths diverge?

Waterman: He started training down in Denver quite a bit with Nate Marquardt and some of those guys. I was traveling, so I couldn't train with him as much as he needed to get trained.

Sherdog.com: Carwin hasn't been outside of the first round, and there are questions concerning his wind late in the fight. What have you seen?

Waterman: I don't think cardio will be a question with him. Everybody's wondering because they haven't seen him in the second or third round. He's a wrestler, training up at altitude [in Colorado], training extremely hard. He prepares five rounds for a three-round fight. He's definitely got the cardio to go hard for five rounds.

Sherdog.com: You and Lesnar spent a good deal of time together in Ohio Valley Wrestling (OVW), which was a developmental league for the WWE, around 2000-2002. Did he ever discuss fighting with you then?

Waterman: I think he wanted to do it back then. We were both locked in to WWE contracts at the time. I had already fought in the UFC, and he said it was something he might want to do if wrestling didn't work out, down the line.

Brock and I were pro wrestling, but we would train a lot, roll a lot, wrestle a lot, just to stay in shape. Shelton Benjamin, Brian Keck, other college wrestlers were there, too. We'd wrestle all the time. As big as he is, to be as strong and as quick as he is, it's amazing. He was close to 300 pounds and could do a standing back-flip. He was one of the only guys I've trained with that could take me down at will.

Sherdog.com: Did your backgrounds help avoid any hazing rituals in that wrestling culture?

Waterman: I had four UFC fights when I was called into OVW. The first day I was in practice, Mark Henry, all 450 pounds of him, got into ring and called me out. I think he lasted about 35 seconds.

Sherdog.com: Who's stronger: Lesnar or Carwin?

Waterman: I think Brock would have to have the edge on physical strength. He probably walks around a little bit heavier than Shane. But it's not a huge difference. They're both extremely strong. I might give athleticism to Brock's side, but the technique to Shane a little more. He's come along with his ground and stand-up. He's got good submissions now.

Sherdog.com: There's also debate over Lesnar's Division I honors and Carwin's Division II. Do you see much of a difference?

Waterman: At the time, when Shane was wrestling, there was not a huge difference. Both were national champions. I think they had a few similar opponents. I had Brock in town with me here in Greeley and I took him to the gym to train with me one day and Shane was there: I introduced them. This was six or seven years ago. They met for the first time. They were talking back and forth about Stephen Neal and other common opponents they had wrestled against. They had real similar outcomes.

Sherdog.com: If you had to bet on who gets the first takedown, where does the money go?

Waterman: [long silence] It's really hard to say. If they come in to wrestle, Brock might get the first takedown. But if Shane plays his cards right and is looking to defend and keeping him away and setting it up with punching, I'd give it to Shane. It's a chess match. It's about who comes ready to play that day.

Sherdog.com: You can approximate both guys fairly well. Are you going to train with either one?

Waterman: Shane is asking me to train with him for this fight, so I'll be training with him for the next two months. I have a fight with Lashley in November, so it's going to help me out as well. I think it'll help Shane. Brock and I have very similar fighting styles. We take opponents down, ground-and-pound, don't let them move, look for [a] submission. That's basically what Brock's done: control opponents. That's my style. Having Shane train with me will be an advantage for him.

Sherdog.com: Did anyone from Lesnar's camp try to reach you?

Waterman: No, I haven't heard anything from Brock's side.

Sherdog.com: Back to you and Lesnar in OVW: was it quiet, or did anyone ever want any trouble?

Waterman: It never happened. We just spent a lot of time together hanging out at the mall and going out to eat. No one had that much courage. There were a group of guys: Dave Batista, John Cena, Randy Orton, Mark Henry -- just a bunch of big freaks.

***Reference article...Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Strasser]

I like Carwin. He took a huge hit from Gonzaga that I thought for sure signaled the end of the fight, but the tough SOB came back. That said, I see Lesnar as a quicker, more explosive version of Carwin. I suspect we'll see another brutal GnP from Lesnar.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Yeh, Brock's functional strength is off the charts...combine that with his quickness & him fighting at 275-280 (fight night)...he's a total beast. I've stated before that the WWE's (Dave) Batista, who's a freak in his own right, said in a (out of character) interview that Brock would tear his arm off in a arm-wrestling match & Brock was much stronger than him. Paul "Big Show" Wight (7'0, 485+) said Brock was the strongest guy he's ever been in the ring with & Brock had little trouble handling Wight's weight in the ring. As I said above, I'm pulling for (humble) Carwin, but suspect Brock via TKO.

 

[Poacher]

Has Carwin been out of the first round in his career? I wonder about his cardio.

 

[White Shogun]

Every fight has ended in the first round, 6 by T/KO and 5 by submission. The record said a couple of them were by guillotine, I don't know about the rest, perhaps submission by tapout to punches?

Honestly, I thought he had more KO's than that.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Franciso Mir predicts Carwin to beat Brock for the strap. Once Lesnar (theoretically) loses, Mir wants another (rubber match) fight with him.IF Lesnar does lose to (fellow monster) Carwin, I firmly believe big Brock will smash (TKO or KO) Mir's mouthy tail once again.

Mir Predicts Carwin Wins & Wants Brock (Again)Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Poacher]

Frank should let it go. He got a gift stoppage in the first fight and basically got Zulu'd in the rematch.

Edited by: Poacher

 

[guest301]

Frank should let it go. He got a gift stoppage in the first fight and basically got Zulu'd in the rematch.

Poacher, that was no gift stoppage in the first fight. Lesnar tapped out because he would have got his ankle broken if he had not. I don't like Mir and I agree that Lesnar would beat him up even worse in a third fight.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Frank should let it go. He got a gift stoppage in the first fight and basically got Zulu'd in the rematch.

Poacher, that was no gift stoppage in the first fight. Lesnar tapped out because he would have got his ankle broken if he had not. I don't like Mir and I agree that Lesnar would beat him up even worse in a third fight.

G301, I think Poacher was referring to "Maggotagozzi's" stopping the 1st fight & deducting a point from Lesnar on that bogus "head shot". Remember Silva getting away with multiple downward/spike elbows to Lutter's head (no stoppage or point deduction) & "afflete" Kongo getting away with multiple, intentional sto Crocop's nads? I've seen countless fighters get away with punches to the top & back of the head...yet ol' "Maggotagozzi" stopped the Aryan monster from finishing "Samurai" Mir. That was a BS stoppage/point deduction, AND Brock had Frank about finished/TKO'd before "Maggotagozzi" bailed Mir out.

'



Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[guest301]

Yes Dixie,you and Poacher have a point but I was only talking about the point in the fight when Mir put that submission hold on Brock and he tapped out within about four seconds from the pain. Yes I disagree with the the ref deducting a point from Lesnar but he was right to stand them up because hitting the back of the head is against the rules. I think it's a stupid rule and should be changed but that's beside the point. Mir made Lesnar tap in that first fight and I think Mir deserves some props for that.

Your point about other fighters getting away with those headshots in the past is noted and I can't stand inconsistent refs and judges.Edited by: guest301

 

[DixieDestroyer]

That tight kneebar was indeed legit, as Mir's a BJJ Blackbelt. However, I think the stoppage was bogus only because they've let head shots slide from many other fighters. Technically, "Maggotagozzi" did the correct thing (as he claimed he gave Brock several verbal warnings...none of which I've heard the 3x I've watched that fight). However, I think he should have given "another" warning...and Brock could/would have finished Mir. I believe in the refs letting them fight & not trying to dictate the fight (via premature stand-ups). I agree that Frank got lucky (to get the stoppage) when he beat Brock.

Regarding the UFC rules, I'd like to see kicks/knees to a downed opponent reinstated (ala Pride). I'm fond of the ol' NHB days.

Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Liverlips]

Gotta go with Lesnar here, but Shane could make it interesting for a while. Just don't know how he keeps this standing though.

My prediction is Brock by G&P in the second or third. Either way, a white man will be champ after the fight.

I believe Frank Mir is fighting great black nope, Cheikh Kongo on this card too? It'll be good to see another white man smash Kongo, who, for some reason, is still adored by all the DWFs on Sherdog. Yet he loses every time he steps up to even borderline top 10 guys (Herring, Velasquez).

 

[DixieDestroyer]

LL, I believe Francisco Santos Mir III is fighting (caste-pushed) Kongo at UFC 107, December 12th in Memphis, TN. It's the same card as Penn vs. Sanchez for the LW strap. I'll be pulling for Mir that fight.

There's also been talk about Mir fighting Anderson Silva at HW as well. If that comes to fruition, I'd give the speed & striking advantage to Silva & strength/BJJ nod to Francisco. I'd pull for the ol' "Samurai" in that fight too.

 

[Liverlips]

Yeah, I'd go wth Mir against A. Silva too. At some point, the size difference will be too much for Silva. I know Mir has some Spanish ancestry. But he is obvioulsy 100% European so I have no problem pulling for him.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Lesnar's out of UFC 106 due to illness. Carwin is pushing to move the fight for UFC 108.

Lesnar Out at UFC 106Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[guest301]

Very disappointing delay of what should be a great fight. Forrest Griffin and Tito Ortiz are said to be the main event now. I am really thinking the UFC should fold the WEC and bring in Faber, Brown, Aldo, Cerrone, Henderson and Varner so the UFC can put a title fight of some sorts in nearly every ppv.

 

[celticdb15]

The last couple of cards have been boring... Now the one fight i am really looking forward to gets pushed back!

 

[DixieDestroyer]

One good thing is UFC 105 is "free" on Spike on 11/14.

 

[guest301]

Dixie, we deserve a free one after the last couple of duds.

 

[Bear Backer]

Very disappointing delay of what should be a great fight. Forrest Griffin and Tito Ortiz are said to be the main event now. I am really thinking the UFC should fold the WEC and bring in Faber, Brown, Aldo, Cerrone, Henderson and Varner so the UFC can put a title fight of some sorts in nearly every ppv.

I am not sure how well that would work from a business perspective for the UFC who would then be overloaded with talent from a ton of weight classes and have a hard time getting all their contracted guys fights, but from a fans perspective I like it very much. The last couple of UFC's have been kind of disappointing, UFC 105 doesn't have a great marquee match up that I am looking forward to, and without Carwin/Lesnar, 106 doesn't look so must see either with just Ortiz and Griffin. I am completely pissed off and meh about Griffin for the effort he put up against Silva, and I haven't been excited about seeing Ortiz fight in a long time.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Tito was always a bit overrated and I think he's fallen off a tad. He did impress me as a TUF coach, but has always been obnoxious in the cage. I hope Griffin defeats Ortiz, but Forrest didn't show vs. Silva...almost like he took a dive.

Fyi, P4P top 10 fighter Mike Brown defends the WEC Featherweight strap (against Jose Aldo) at WEC 44 on 11/18 ("free" on Versus). There's a few other solid fights on the card.

WEC 43 - Brown vs. Aldo
Edited by: DixieDestroyer

 

[Bear Backer]

Tito was always a bit overrated and I think he's fallen off a tad. He did impress me as a TUF coach, but has always been obnoxious in the cage. I hope Griffin defeats Ortiz, but Forrest didn't show vs. Silva...almost like he took a dive.

Fyi, P4P top 10 fighter Mike Brown defends the WEC Featherweight strap (against Jose Aldo) at WEC 44 on 11/18 ("free" on Versus). There's a few other solid fights on the card.

WEC 43 - Brown vs. Aldo

I have probably watched that Griffin/Silva fight 20 times since it happened. Each and every time I have watched it I am more convinced that Griffin did indeed take a dive. I am not accusing him or the UFC of purposely rigging the fight, just that it looked like he willingly tanked it because he thought he couldn't win. He has never been known to be a dangerous striker, yet knowing this, he didn't try to do anything to give himself a chance to win and even the odds. He just played right into Silva's game. Then that crazy run to the back just said, I just wanted to get it over and get out of town to avoid any more embarrassment. It has really made me question his desire. Another stinker like that and he shouldn't be fighting in the UFC.