One topic that I dont recall anyone discussing on here is organized labor. How do you guys on here feel about labor unions: bad, good, or both. I know we have a lot of posters from southern states where unions are not even around at all. I myself am in a labor union and enjoy the benefits I get from it such as a pension and health care. The unions gave themsleves a black eye in the past for their connections with the mafia but they're pretty clean these days. Post away guys!!
Labor Unions
- Thread starter whiteCB
- Start date
whiteCB said:
I work at a place where some of the employees are unionized(SEIU) and some are not. Fortunately for me I am not a member. I tried to help organize a vote last year with friends of mine in the union and we almost succeeded in getting them the hell out of there. I am sure we will try again next year. I hate them specifically because the union rules prohibit me from working in different departments and therefore keeping me at times from getting extra hours I could use and many of my friends see no value added to them with all the union dues coming out of their paycheck with no seeming return on it. But beyond my own personal interests, I hate the SEIU in particular for their rabid support of Obama and all the corruption and lavish spending that goes on in that particular union not to mention their intimidation tactics and downright thuggery when union members don't tow the party line.
Never belonged to a union. Based on past history and present day economic troubles there are both good and bad points about them. My question would be to members; do they think that unions are hurting the economy or are they looking out for their members, at the expense of society?
I am not against unions. I think they've done a great job in securing benefits workers would otherwise not have gotten. I also think that they have abused their power at times.
It's funny how whenever a CEO gets a bazillion dollar bonus it's called capitalism or the free market but whenever a guy on the line wants a raise or dental care for his kid it's called union greed.
It all boils down to the people at the top not wanting to take a cut in their lavish salaries so their employees can get a fair return on their labor. Hence we have NAFTA and GATT so the corporate fascists can find new populations of ignorant third worlders to exploit for fun and profit.
It's funny how whenever a CEO gets a bazillion dollar bonus it's called capitalism or the free market but whenever a guy on the line wants a raise or dental care for his kid it's called union greed.
It all boils down to the people at the top not wanting to take a cut in their lavish salaries so their employees can get a fair return on their labor. Hence we have NAFTA and GATT so the corporate fascists can find new populations of ignorant third worlders to exploit for fun and profit.
Unions have been ineffective both at preventing the ongoing massive outsourcing of American jobs, and of preventing unions themselves from being marginalized. A big turning point was when Ronald Reagan smashed the air controllers' union when they went on strike in 1981. Ever since, both arms of the one-party system have successfully gone after union power with a vengeance. Unions are weaker now than since before the Great Depression.
From a racial standpoint, like all other institutions, any policy or stance thatcan be interpreted as pro-white is verboten in unions. It's white workers who have mostly lost union jobs, to non-whites and non-Americans, but it can never be approached or discussed in that manner.
From a racial standpoint, like all other institutions, any policy or stance thatcan be interpreted as pro-white is verboten in unions. It's white workers who have mostly lost union jobs, to non-whites and non-Americans, but it can never be approached or discussed in that manner.
GiovaniMarcon
Mentor
I always thought that unions kind of work if you're buddy-buddy with those in power, but if you don't kiss up then you're out on your rear. I also think that unions sort of defend incompetent workers and don't appropriately reward excellence.
Example:
Employee A sucks at his job but is friends with a union head, therefore he not only keeps his job but gets paid a lot for it.
Employee B is excellent at his job but for whatever reason dislikes the union, which sees his competence as a threat, and thus seeks to keep him down or fire him.
Example:
Employee A sucks at his job but is friends with a union head, therefore he not only keeps his job but gets paid a lot for it.
Employee B is excellent at his job but for whatever reason dislikes the union, which sees his competence as a threat, and thus seeks to keep him down or fire him.
Tom Iron
Mentor
Gentlemen,
This is a very interesting topic. I've been a member and was an officer of a trade union for many years. There are all sorts of interesting facets of this discussion, but I assure you that the start of the decline of the trade unions was the forced court ordered acceptance of first blacks, then later women and even later, hispanics into their ranks. Once this was accomplished, the overall competance of the tradesmen went into the toilet.
It's pretty much the same with the sports. Look at how lousy the play is of the nfl and major league baseball compared to what they used to be. Same thing.
Tom Iron...
This is a very interesting topic. I've been a member and was an officer of a trade union for many years. There are all sorts of interesting facets of this discussion, but I assure you that the start of the decline of the trade unions was the forced court ordered acceptance of first blacks, then later women and even later, hispanics into their ranks. Once this was accomplished, the overall competance of the tradesmen went into the toilet.
It's pretty much the same with the sports. Look at how lousy the play is of the nfl and major league baseball compared to what they used to be. Same thing.
Tom Iron...
Tom Iron
Mentor
Gentlemen,
You might want to read my essay on this subject that appeared in the June, 2006 issue of American Rennaisance Magazine. You can find it on Amren.com, Archives - back issues, entitled "Blacks on High Steel."
Tom Iron...
You might want to read my essay on this subject that appeared in the June, 2006 issue of American Rennaisance Magazine. You can find it on Amren.com, Archives - back issues, entitled "Blacks on High Steel."
Tom Iron...
DixieDestroyer
Hall of Famer
Union senior "leadership" is too often socialist leaning &/or crooked. However, the rank & file are usually good, hard working folks who've gotten shafted by Globalist minded "free" trade travesties like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, etc. My Grandad worked 35 years for Ford & the UAW+pension, etc. took care of him & my Grandmother until the day they passed on.
screamingeagle
Mentor
My dad was a union member and believed in the union. Because of this he was able to make as much or better than other parents of some white collar workers.
I on the other hand have never worked at a place that had a union. I am not sure if I would join.
I on the other hand have never worked at a place that had a union. I am not sure if I would join.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
My father in law has been in the UAW since the mid-60s and wears their belt buckle all the time. I think they encourage left leaning groupthink or no thinking at all. While they have provided good benefits for some oftheir members, I see a lot of their policies as being counter-productive. Edited by: Colonel_Reb
Poacher said:
Yeah its ok for the CEO to get a 50% increase on their yearly bonus but when the guys out in the field want a little $1 hourly raise the union is called out for being selfish. Talk about a double standard!!
There are some negatives with unions as some of you have mentioned but I think the positives out weigh them. A pension is the first thing that comes to mind as Social Security is nearly solvent and everyone's losing their 401 K down the drain. So to be able to work 25-30 years and have a guaranteed retirement is great. Also health care is a big plus and for me personally is great! Also for unions like the Iron Workers, Carpenters, Laborers, and so on these workers do some dangerous jobs. Trust me it takes BALLS to weld 2 ton steel beams 300 feet in the air. I've got coworkers who have lost friends on jobs and all of the older guys have back and knee problems. I've run a 60 lbs jack hammer before and ITS NOT FUN. After a while you wake up in the morning to go to work and you cannot even bend your fingers all the way to brush your teeth. Your fingers are just so beat. So it's good to take care of the people who break their backs building the roads, bridges, and sky scrapers we all use every day. These men come home tried and dirty every day busting their behinds. It's all the better that they make a livable middle class wage.
PhillyBirds
Mentor
My father's been a union Pipefitter for coming up on 30 years, and I can tell you, he's about as far from a leftist-liberal as you can imagine.
I don't know the case elsewhere, but racial bias in unions is largely dependent upon the trade in question. Blacks have been pushed for years in less skilled trades, such as Laborers or Teamsters. Higher "thought level" jobs such as Pipefitters, Sprinklerfitters, etc. are, judging from my father's stories, rife with racism and remain majority white.
This may just be the case in my hometown of Philadelphia, though.
Edited by: PhillyBirds
I don't know the case elsewhere, but racial bias in unions is largely dependent upon the trade in question. Blacks have been pushed for years in less skilled trades, such as Laborers or Teamsters. Higher "thought level" jobs such as Pipefitters, Sprinklerfitters, etc. are, judging from my father's stories, rife with racism and remain majority white.
This may just be the case in my hometown of Philadelphia, though.
Edited by: PhillyBirds
Freethinker
Hall of Famer
My feelings are mixed on this. I am in the Architectural field and deal with construction workers and unions frequently. With union work you know its going to cost more and take longer to complete. However, the quality of the work is almost guaranteed. Also, I do believe blue collar workers and their families should be taken care of because they are the backbone of America.
A good example of unions go bad is in Michigan right now with the auto industry. They have been so corrupted over the years that they have made it impossible for the Big 3 to run a financially successful business and compete internationally. I guess when any group becomes too large and you have a consolidation of power, it ultimately leads to greed, corruption and cronyism. IMO almost everything with a socialist lean never works as intended.
A good example of unions go bad is in Michigan right now with the auto industry. They have been so corrupted over the years that they have made it impossible for the Big 3 to run a financially successful business and compete internationally. I guess when any group becomes too large and you have a consolidation of power, it ultimately leads to greed, corruption and cronyism. IMO almost everything with a socialist lean never works as intended.
Quiet Speed
Mentor
Being raised in a union household, it's impossible to go on a screed against unions.
As DD stated there probably is a disconnect between a lot of the rank and file and the overall positions of union headquarters, especially in the building trades. I haven't checked the official position on immigration, illegal aliens, and amnesty of all the unions, it seems this is another area were the ball has been dropped.
The problem with the unions is that they are led by the same Ivy league Cultural Marxists that make up the upper ranks of corporations. They have all been brainwashed to think a certain way and don't give a rat's ass about the workers. It's all about what they can get for themselves.
I've long talked with union members that agree the contracts that were negotiated for them were over the top as far as benefits and salary but they are not given a choice on that, just a yea or nay on the final deal. Since it was usually a good agreement for them why would they vote no?
Union salaries went up gradually for decades and now they are expected to revert back to half pay? Who here is going to feel the same about their job if they were forced to take a 50% pay cut? It's crazy. They're just going to move the jobs offshore anyway because it's not about reducing union wages, it's about getting work done dirt cheap in third world countries.
I've long talked with union members that agree the contracts that were negotiated for them were over the top as far as benefits and salary but they are not given a choice on that, just a yea or nay on the final deal. Since it was usually a good agreement for them why would they vote no?
Union salaries went up gradually for decades and now they are expected to revert back to half pay? Who here is going to feel the same about their job if they were forced to take a 50% pay cut? It's crazy. They're just going to move the jobs offshore anyway because it's not about reducing union wages, it's about getting work done dirt cheap in third world countries.
Quiet Speed
Mentor
Tom Iron said:
Thanks for the heads-up on the informative article. Hail to the Iron Workers.
What do you guys think about the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? Do you think it will come up for vote in the Senate? It's some pretty big legislation that will level the playing field for workers that want to organize. I personally would like to see it passed but don't think it will be voted on.
Here's what it is, if you do not already know:
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/Edited by: whiteCB
Here's what it is, if you do not already know:
http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/Edited by: whiteCB
Tom Iron
Mentor
Quiet Speed,
Your vey welcome.
There is another very important point I'd like to make. Since I wrote that article, I've come to understand that in the case of black people, for the most part, they've been "artificially inserted," in everything they do in this country. They have very little ability to function within this society. Every day that passes makes them more unable to fend for themselves in this highly technological society culture. That's why this elaborate web of Affirmative Action illusionary make work jobs had to be developed to continue the erroneous idea that they're contributing members of the society they live in. Then, it became neccessary to make it impossible to mention that they're not performing their work correctly. The web of deceit the govt. has woven incredibly intricate in that lies have to be continually upgraded to continue the deception.
Tom Iron...
Your vey welcome.
There is another very important point I'd like to make. Since I wrote that article, I've come to understand that in the case of black people, for the most part, they've been "artificially inserted," in everything they do in this country. They have very little ability to function within this society. Every day that passes makes them more unable to fend for themselves in this highly technological society culture. That's why this elaborate web of Affirmative Action illusionary make work jobs had to be developed to continue the erroneous idea that they're contributing members of the society they live in. Then, it became neccessary to make it impossible to mention that they're not performing their work correctly. The web of deceit the govt. has woven incredibly intricate in that lies have to be continually upgraded to continue the deception.
Tom Iron...
Tom Iron said:
Good detail into how iron working is done. Many people assume its easy work but it takes not only brawn but brains too. The part that got me was how black guys were getting the easy work normally reserved for the older guys who have EARNED the right to do the less physically demanding work. Being a young guy in the trades I take pride in doing the back breaking work knowing that I have to pay my dues just like the guys before me.
I joined the Iron Workers Union Local 482 at 17, and now its overun with wetbacks who no speka the english, and ride the payroll doing nothing. I hate the Iron Workers Union for the fact that down in Texas its pay is lowest in USA. n top of that , the balless formans wont make the Blacks and illegal wets do nothing.
Tom Iron said it best.
Edited by: P-NutLane
Tom Iron said it best.
Electric Slide
Mentor
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- Jul 14, 2007
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As others have noted, unions are rooted in socialist/Marxist theory. I think it's unfair to call what we have here in America as Capitalism. What we have is an akward blend of free market and socialism.
Both unions and corporations are rife with socialist thought. Both for the most part are in love with affirmative action. Anything that protects that awards people for anything other than the contributions they make to their entity is not right with me.
To me it's unfair to have a union where there will be "slow-downs" and "work-stoppages," while an honest hard working person can't doesn't get a job while the union protects less-productive workers.
To me it's also unfair that corporations will promote minorities to positions they didn't deserve because the government makes them, or because society will look favorably upon it. It's the same situation, someone who would be productive doesn't get the job while an entity protects the less-productive employee.
This is also why it's unfair to have lower academic standards for minorities at colleges because it brings down the academic standard at the school. It's also why it's unfair to have tenure with professors, someone else gets left out while the lazy socialist professor keeps their job.
This is why it's unfair for guys like Bobby Bowden to only recruit black skill players, because a lesser talented black player gets to compete while a more productive white player has to go to a smaller school, and have a worse chance at money from the NFL.
Anything that promotes people for things other than how good they will be is wrong, whether it's unions or caste bias.
In a real capitalist system, corporations that wasted their money on huge executive payouts would not last, because the government wouldn't protect them. A good worker on the bottom would be able to move up quickly because productivity would be valued, not seniority or diversity. The problem is that people don't always act in their best interest, and there's different motivations and incentives that people respond to that is often counter-intuitive. Check out the book Freakonomics if you are interested in that.
Both unions and corporations are rife with socialist thought. Both for the most part are in love with affirmative action. Anything that protects that awards people for anything other than the contributions they make to their entity is not right with me.
To me it's unfair to have a union where there will be "slow-downs" and "work-stoppages," while an honest hard working person can't doesn't get a job while the union protects less-productive workers.
To me it's also unfair that corporations will promote minorities to positions they didn't deserve because the government makes them, or because society will look favorably upon it. It's the same situation, someone who would be productive doesn't get the job while an entity protects the less-productive employee.
This is also why it's unfair to have lower academic standards for minorities at colleges because it brings down the academic standard at the school. It's also why it's unfair to have tenure with professors, someone else gets left out while the lazy socialist professor keeps their job.
This is why it's unfair for guys like Bobby Bowden to only recruit black skill players, because a lesser talented black player gets to compete while a more productive white player has to go to a smaller school, and have a worse chance at money from the NFL.
Anything that promotes people for things other than how good they will be is wrong, whether it's unions or caste bias.
In a real capitalist system, corporations that wasted their money on huge executive payouts would not last, because the government wouldn't protect them. A good worker on the bottom would be able to move up quickly because productivity would be valued, not seniority or diversity. The problem is that people don't always act in their best interest, and there's different motivations and incentives that people respond to that is often counter-intuitive. Check out the book Freakonomics if you are interested in that.
Electric Slide
Mentor
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2007
- Messages
- 1,016
whiteCB said:
If passed, it will be very intersting to see how those votes will go down. I can just imagine when you're going to vote, a big goon will be standing their looking over your shoulder you to make sure you don't make a mistake on your vote.