know your history

[LabMan]

Such intelligent posts,a pleasure to read !it would be a plus if we could all add more posts such as these to the discussion board at www.anu.org,home of Don Wassall's fine newspaper.The Nationalist Times.

 

[screamingeagle]

To Jimmy Chitwood: Good Post! I hope everybody has read it. He sums up so well the many problems we have dealing with the moslem world.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

To Jimmy Chitwood: Good Post! I hope everybody has read it. He sums up so well the many problems we have dealing with the moslem world.

thank youfor the kind words, sir.

Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

here is a well-written piece of history regarding a date that SHOULD be among the most famous in history, that just so happens to tie into the topic at hand.

sadly, most folks have never even heard the story ...
<H3 align=left ="post-title">The Other September 11th </H3>
by Baron Bodissey
I refer, of course, to the other 9-11: September 11th, 1683, the day when an alliance of Christian armies led by Jan III Sobieski, the King of Poland, arrived at the Gates of Vienna.


<DIV align=left>

The Ottoman Empire had been expanding into Europe ever since Constantinople fell to the Turks, and even before that. Wherever the Muslim armies went, they plundered cities, took slaves, turned churches into mosques, and converted many thousands of Christian captives to Islam at the point of a sword.

The Sultan's armies overran Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, and Serbia. They turned Protestant Hungary into a compliant vassal and made war repeatedly on Austria and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The Ottomans had designs on Vienna, since the fall of the city would open the way into the heart of Austria and the rich principalities of southern Germany.

Having failed to take Vienna in the siege of 1529, the Turks prepared a second attempt in 1683. Under the leadership of the Grand Vizier, Pasha Kara Mustafa, and with their Tatar and Malaysian allies, they made their preparations and fought their way towards the capital, overrunning Austrian villages and smaller cities in their path and taking many captives. As the Muslim hordes approached Vienna, King Leopold fled west with most of the citizens, leaving a garrison of about 11,000 soldiers and 5,000 citizen volunteers to hold the city against the Turks. The Viennese razed buildings in the area around the city walls in order to deny the enemy cover, and brought livestock and provender into the city to prepare for a siege.

On July 16th, 1683, the second siege of Vienna began. The tiny garrison in the city was no match for Kara Mustafa's army of 140,000, but the Grand Vizier decided to starve the city into submission rather than attempt a frontal assault on its defenses.
<DIV align=left>*******************************
<DIV align=left>
<DIV align=left>One of the main reasons the Turks had had such success in the Balkans and Eastern Europe was that their Christian enemies were unable to unite against them. Since the Caliphate and the Ottoman Empire were one and the same thing, Islam experienced no such fractiousness, and it was a united horde that advanced inexorably through the mountain passes and across the plains towards Vienna.

Austria and Poland had long been traditional enemies, only lately coming to an alliance in the face of the common threat. Poland had traditionally been allied with France, but the French were devious even in alliance, especially under Louis XIV, the Sun King. Louis had designs on the German states along the Rhine, and conducted his diplomacy with an eye towards the main chance in Luxembourg or the Rhenish Palatinates.

All of these squabbling political entities were Catholic, and theoretically united under the leadership of Rome. Pope Innocent XI recognized the danger posed by the Ottomans, and, in the name of God and the Church, called on all the rulers of Central Europe to unite against the common foe and save Vienna.

Louis XIV declined to obey his pontiff, and continued his scheming.

Jan Sobieski, on the other hand, was ready to answer the Pope's call. However, in order to go to war, Polish law required him to get the unanimous approval of the Polish Diet. The French king's ambassador plied members of the Diet with massive bribes to induce them to vote against Sobieski's venture. Through most of the summer it seemed that Sobieski would be unable to ride to Vienna.

Fortunately for the Austrians, and for Christendom, Pope Innocent authorized the papal nuncio in Kraków to use the full resources of the Vatican. The nuncio was able to outbid Louis in bribery, but only barely. In the end the Diet reached unanimity and authorized their King to ride to the relief of Vienna.
<DIV align=left>
<DIV align=left>******************************
When the King of Poland set off for Vienna in early September, the Viennese garrison was in desperate straits. The people of the city were starving, and the city had suffered serious damage from the Turkish bombardment.

The Ottoman armies' artillery pieces were of inferior design, and were unable to reduce the city walls, so the Turks had taken to tunneling. They had ample gunpowder, and their engineers dug mines under the walls and set off a number of charges that did serious damage and opened gaps in the walls. The Viennese rallied to build barriers in the gaps, and managed to keep the Turks out, but it was only a matter of time until Kara Mustafa succeeded. The Viennese garrison prepared for a last-ditch defense within the city walls.

It was then, at the last possible moment on the evening of September 11th, that Jan Sobieski arrived at a hill north of the city, leading a force of 40,000 Poles and their German and Austrian allies. The battle began soon afterwards, in the early morning hours of September 12th.

The Austrians and Germans attacked the Turks first at the center and on the left flank. The Turks counterattacked, but held back a significant portion of their forces in anticipation of entering the city through a breach in the wall. That very morning the Grand Vizier had prepared a second and more powerful charge to be set off under the Löbel bastion, one that would throw the city open to the Turkish forces once and for all.

Unfortunately for Kara Mustafa, the Austrians within the city had mounted a counter-tunneling operation. The Austrian "moles" detected the Turkish mine, found the charge, and defused it.

At about the same time the King of Poland, in the van with the fearsome Winged Hussars and with 20,000 men behind him, led a cavalry charge down the hill into the right flank of the Ottoman army. The Hussars were one of the most formidable fighting forces of the time, and the sound of the wind through the feathers of their artificial wings was said to unnerve the enemies' horses and drive superstitious soldiers into a panic.

The battle was over in three hours. The King drove through the Turkish lines, and, seeing his success, the Vienna garrison sallied forth from the city and hit the Turks from the rear. Demoralized by these attacks and their failure to breach the wall, the Turks fled eastwards in haste, abandoning their tents, weapons, battle standards, provisions, and slaves.


<DIV align=left>

The siege was broken and city was saved. Jan III Sobieski was received as the hero of Vienna. Though it was not evident at the time, the Ottoman tide had turned at the Gates of Vienna and was about to recede, beginning its long withdrawal through the Balkans and Greece into Asia Minor over the next two centuries.

And what became of the principals?

Pasha Kara Mustafa was executed in Belgrade later that year, paying the ultimate price for his monumental failure. Jan Sobieski returned to Poland a hero. Austria gradually regained its lost territories, and then some.

And King Louis continued his campaign against the German states: in the absence of their defenders, Luxembourg and other small German states were unable to resist, and were annexed by the French.

Over the long term, good relations between Poland and its neighbors to the west did not last; with the ebbing of the Turkish threat the old enmities returned. Barely a century later Austria, Prussia, and Russia presided over the final partition of Poland, and the Polish state ceased to exist until it was reborn at the end of the Great War in 1918.


<DIV align=left>***********************Edited by: Jimmy Chitwood

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

with all of the illegal, and corrupt power-mad activity being undertaken by our elected so-called "leaders," i thought it apt to recall a period a while back that had a similar situation... one that took the vision and actions of a special group of men to throw off the shackles of unjust government.

i will borrow the words of Coach Dave Daubenmire to begin.

Two hundred and thirty-three years ago a band of brave men reached the point where they determined that enough was enough. As we used to be taught in our schools, one brave man rose to his feet and said "Give me liberty or give me death." (You will be inspired to read what Patrick Henry had to say, which i will submit below).

Patrick Henry and his fellow patriots signed their death warrants on July 4, 1776. As a result most would lose everything they had. But they understood one thing that today we no longer get. Their lives were not as valuable to them as ours are to us. They were a generation who lived their lives for the benefit of the next. They understood that their duty was to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity." Aren't you glad they "did their duty?" ...

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The questing before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable ­ and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace ­ but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

 

[PhillyBirds]

Man, that's beautiful, Jimmy.

Men just don't speak like that anymore.

 

[Kaptain]

KP and dwid,

the video doesn't mention jews, isreal, or zionism at all except for a historical reference to the Crusades (re. fighting in Jerusalem).

while you are both correct in that some of the muslim hatred for the US is because of America's support of Isreal, that is far from the whole truth. Islam demands that all muslims spread the rule of allah throughout the world by subjugating ALL who don't worship allah... by the sword if the non-muslims don't submit/convert peacefully.

Islam and muslims won't "just get along" with America if we leave them alone. their god, holy books, and so on don't allow for peace treaties, negotiating, or live and let live. according to the muslim world view, the world is divided into two parts: the house of Islam and the house of War.

that's pretty clear cut, mates. you should watch the documentary.

Jimmy, I watched the video for a bit and turned it off after about the third or fourth Jewish Supremacist "expert" came on to tell about the terrible muslims.

I'm sorry I really don't care about vague and often contradictory passages in ancient books. I do know that the muslim religion highly regards Jesus Christ as a holy prophet and the messiah. Most muslims, like most Christians and most Jews just aren't that religious to take every Holy Book word that seriously.

Contrary to common thought, clashes of civilizations are more often are due to race than religion. Religion is just the rallying cry of a race that gives them some sort of mental moral high ground to do what they were going to do anyway - kill other people for land or power.

IE: Notice how all previous "white" religions all gave way Christianity rather peacefully and yet Christianity was a tough sell to other races. I think muslims in general could care less if white men 1/2 way around the world convert to Islam.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Jimmy, I watched the video for a bit and turned it off after about the third or fourth Jewish Supremacist "expert" came on to tell about the terrible muslims.

I'm sorry I really don't care about vague and often contradictory passages in ancient books. I do know that the muslim religion highly regards Jesus Christ as a holy prophet and the messiah. Most muslims, like most Christians and most Jews just aren't that religious to take every Holy Book word that seriously.

Contrary to common thought, clashes of civilizations are more often are due to race than religion. Religion is just the rallying cry of a race that gives them some sort of mental moral high ground to do what they were going to do anyway - kill other people for land or power.

IE: Notice how all previous "white" religions all gave way Christianity rather peacefully and yet Christianity was a tough sell to other races. I think muslims in general could care less if white men 1/2 way around the world convert to Islam.

KP,

i just posted on the Vatican Turnaround thread, and i saw a post where you rightfully (in my opinion) chastised Freedom for making comments with no supporting evidence and ignoring points previous posters (who have studied the topic a great deal) had made. now you are doing the same thing in this thread.

i readily admit to a lack of knowledge when it comes to the Zionist agenda and history, and i listen far more than i comment, and i heed the wisdom and knowledge of more experienced folks such as yourself.

but on this issue, i know what i'm talking about. i would hope that you would listen and take my words to heart. and if they don't make sense, then i implore you to do the research to learn more. as i have done with the many links you've provided on the Holocaust.

i have already addressed all of the comments you made in your above post, so i will be brief this time around. i hope you don't take it amiss.

first of all, the situation we're discussing has at least three sides: Zionist/Jewish, Muslim, and Christian. for simplicity's sake, i won't get into any of the Eastern religions (though they are becoming increasingly relevant to Western civilization). so, it is obvious that it isn't as simple as either Jew-bad and Muslim-good or vice-versa.

secondly, Islam doesn't possess a few vague and contradictory verses. the verses that come later chronologically supersede any that were "revealed" to Mohammed earlier. that is made explicitly clear in Koranic law. and muslims don't view Jesus as the Messiah. he was just the prophet that had to come before Mohammed appeared.

thirdly, we're not talking about "most" Muslims. we are talking about radical, fundamentalist Muslims. the muslims who are taking over Europe, for example. and whether or not they correctly interpret their holy book is irrelevant to this discussion, because they believe they are correct and will kill anyone who disagrees. that's a pretty plain position, and is stated numerous times in their holy book to be the right position to have. i can't understand how you can't comprehend this. these Muslims don't care that you don't have a problem with them. as a non-Muslim, you either submit, convert, or you are target practice.

your next paragraph about religion being an escape clause for war has a lot of truth to it, so i'll move on.

finally, your last sentence couldn't possibly be more wrong. as i've already documented in this thread, and is written in the Koran, and is repeated without ceasing by radical, fundamentalist Muslim leaders, there will be no peace treaty with Muslims. their religion doesn't allow for an end to warfare until the entire world is under the law of Islam. it doesn't get any more plain than that. there will be no "live and let live" attitude, unless they are in a weaker military position. then, and only then, will they press for "peace" and "tolerance." at least until they gain enough numbers to force non-believers to succumb to their rule.

i've done the research. this is the hard truth regarding the so-called "religion of peace."

 

[Kaptain]

Jimmy, I don't question your intent. I posted the same stuff a couple years ago. A post by Don made me think about what this anti-muslim stuff is really intended to accomplish. I changed my thinking since then (funny how one can remember certain posts among thousands). I tend to believe Ron Paul when he says "they attack us because we are over there (attacking them)". I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[Kaptain]

I'm not a Koran scholar, but Wiki says the muslims do view him as the messiah:

"The Qur'an states Jesus is the Messiah,[Qur'an 3:45] and Muslims believe Jesus is alive in Heaven and will return to Earth to defeat the Dajjal, or Antichrist.[citation needed]

A hadith in Abu Dawud (Sunnan Abu Dawud 37:4310) says:

"Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish hair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. God will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray behind him."

Shia Muslims believe al-Mahdi will arrive first, and after him, Jesus. Jesus will proclaim that the true leader is al-Mahdi. A war, literally Jihad (Jihade Asghar) will be fought - the Dajjal (evil) against al-Mahdi and Jesus (good). This war will mark the approach of the coming of the Last Day. After Jesus slays al-Dajjâl at the Gate of Lud, Muslims believe he will marry, die, and be buried in the Masjid al Nabawi. During his life, he will have revealed that Islam is the last word of God.[citation needed]

A hadith in Sahih Bukhari (4:55:658) says:

"How will you be when the son of Mary descends amongst you and your Imam is from amongst you."
A very few scholars outside of Orthodox Islam reject all the quotes (Hadith) attributed to Muhammad that mention the second return of Jesus, the Dajjal and Imam Mahdi, believing that they have no Qur'anic basis. These scholars believe that the verb mutawwafika in verse [Qur'an 3:55] implies that God caused the bodily death of Jesus, thus (3:55) should read as "O Jesus, I terminate your life, raise you to Me." Others disagree with the implication of termination of Jesus' life (for example Yusuf Ali's translation reads: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself"). Verses [Qur'an 4:157] imply that Jesus was not killed physically but it appeared as such in some other sense; Verse [Qur'an 19:33] implies that Jesus will die someday. The vast majority of Muslims, and the unified opinion of Orthodox Islam since Islam's coming, maintain that the bodily death of Jesus will happen after his second coming.[citation needed]

Many classical commentators such as Ibn Kathir, At-Tabari, al-Qurtubi, Suyuti, al-Undlusi (Bahr al-Muhit), Abu al-Fadl al-Alusi (Ruh al-Maani) clearly mention that verse [Qur'an 43:61] of the Qur'an refers to the descent of Jesus before the Day of Resurrection, indicating that Jesus would be the Sign that the Hour is close.

"And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour)..." ([Qur'an 43:61]
Those that reject the second coming of Jesus argue that the knowledge of the Hour is only with God, and that the Hour will come suddenly. They maintain that if the second coming of Jesus were true, whenever it happens, billions of people would then be certain the Hour is about to come. The response given to this is that signs that the Last Hour is near have been foretold and given, including that of the second coming of Jesus, as signs indicating the Last Hour is near. They will not clarify when it is to come in any specific sense, and hence do not reveal it.[citation needed"

 

[Kaptain]

A few Islam passages on Jesus:

Jesus in the Koran

 

[Electric Slide]

KP, just because zionists use a lot of anti-Muslim propaganda doesn't mean that they don't believe in conqouring the non-Muslim world. I am equally against radical Muslims and radical Jews. If all Muslims were truly peaceful and didn't commit terrorism, and had not plans to make me convert to their religion, then I would not care what their quaran says. But, the fact is that at this point in time it appears that there are a lot of radical Muslims, so I will be against them inspite of the fact that radical Jews are against them too.

 

[Don Wassall]

It's amazing if there are any Muslims who haven't been radicalized against the U.S. because of Washington's policies. The U.S. has killed over a million Arabs over the past 20 years just in Iraq due to periodic bombings, wars, and blockades.


If the Muslims were prevented from immigrating to the U.S. and other Western countries, and if we quit trying to dictate to them how to run their countries, there would be no threat, no more than from "radical Buddhists" or any other Third World religion or race. The Arab/Muslim world is a primitive, Third World one. The demonizing of Arabs and Muslims is the result of Zionist propaganda, and because they are in an important area of the world that Washington wants to dominate and control in conjunction with Israel.


It's our non-European oriented immigration policies and our militarism in the Middle East on behalf of Israel and Big Business that has made the Muslims anti-U.S. Put yourselves in their shoes. How could any Arab or Muslim possibly be pro-U.S.? Keep them out of our country and stay out of theirs, and there is no threat.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Amen Don! Ending foreign entanglements is essential to a Constitutionally adherent government (which we don't have). I say extact ALL troops out of the Middle East & stop every cent of U.S. funding to both the Muhammedans & Zionists. However, we all know the NWO puppets on "Crapitol sHill" will never do this.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

KP, i misunderstood you. what i thought you meant was that Muslims see Jesus as THE Messiah in the way that Christians do; as Savior, Redeemer, and so forth. this is obviously not the case.

when they refer to him as the Messiah they mean a messenger. an important messenger, but not nearly the same thing as Christians see him. my mistake.

you and Don both make very good points about the US stirring up the hornets nest in Muslim countries by our meddling, empiric policies and the US' love affair with Isreal. i agree with the notion that if we get out of there and prohibit them from coming to the USA then we'd have much fewer problems. at least for the near future. of course, preventing them from coming here is essential, because look at what the Muslims are doing to the nations in Europe who have opened their borders to them. talk about horror!

ultimately, Islamic fundamentalists would bring the war to our doorstep as their holy book demands, but as Don suggests we should be able to defeat them. White Europeans defeated them back in the day, and i think we would do so again.

of course, all of this is hypothetical because our sell-out politicians won't get out of bed with their Zionist lovers.

 

[Kaptain]

And to this day I have never heard of an Islamic immigration lobbying group. But there is lots of immigration lobbying groups that are Jewish, Hispanic, and African. And what does the Jewish Holy book demand they do with the GOY? Shouldn't we be more upset about a holy book that has actual power in our society?

Finally, if there is war in the U.S. between us and new immigrants its got to be the war that is practically being commited by the masses of law-breaking machismo spewing Hispanics.

There's imagined threats and then there is actual real threats that people feel as they walk down the street. The imagined threats are told to us by the television man. Real threats are commiting henous crimes upon our society right out our front door witnessed by us first hand.
Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

KP,

without a doubt the Zionist/Israeli contingent wields too much power and influence within the US. they are certainly an immediate threat, and none of what i've posted denies or disagrees with that in any way. you are absolutely correct in that area, as far as i'm concerned.

that being said, that has nothing to do with the legitimate points i've made about the Muslim threat. if the numerous passages and evidence i've provided in this and other threads isn't sufficient to prove my point, just look at what's going on in Europe to see how big a problem the Muslims will eventually become if the threat is ignored.

i think of the current situation in the USA like this: the Zionists are like a stab wound, and the Muslims are like a nasty thorn in the foot.

the stab wound is potentially fatal right now and in need of immediate attention. meanwhile, the Muslim issue is not as serious in the short term, but if it is ignored and not treated it will eventually become a life-threatening issue, even though it is a very minor concern right now.

furthermore, i don't disagree with you at all about the VERY real danger of the Zionists. they are everywhere, and will undoubtedly destroy our nation from within if something isn't done soon.

as you and Don have pointed out, if it weren't for the pro-Israeli love affair, we wouldn't be involved in the Middle East at all. and the Israeli history of false flag operations is very much continuing to be made. it is even suggested in a recent article in the NY Times.

Cousin of alleged 9/11 hijacker is actually an Israeli spy.

MARAJ, Lebanon â€â€￾ For 25 years, Ali al-Jarrah managed to live on both sides of the bitterest divide running through this region. To friends and neighbors, he was an earnest supporter of the Palestinian cause, an affable, white-haired family man who worked as an administrator at a nearby school.

To Israel, he appears to have been a valued spy, sending reports and taking clandestine photographs of Palestinian groups and Hezbollah since 1983.

 

[jaxvid]

A pox on both their houses!!!

 

[screamingeagle]

Mr Wassell:
Moslems hate us because they are trained from birth to hate all infidels. They are willing to trade with us, but only on their terms. If Isreal did not exist, they would find another reason to hate us.
American foreign policy is based on the Munich principle. "If only we stood up to Hitler at Munich, there would not have been a WW II!" This is open to debate. I known Europeans who believe WW II would have never happened if the Czechs resisted Hitler's invasion.
I do agree that Moslems should not be allowed in the US. We Christians are not allowed in most of Arabia, so they should not be allowed in the US. Fair is Fair.

 

[Don Wassall]

Mr Wassell:
Moslems hate us because they are trained from birth to hate all infidels. They are willing to trade with us, but only on their terms. If Isreal did not exist, they would find another reason to hate us.
American foreign policy is based on the Munich principle. "If only we stood up to Hitler at Munich, there would not have been a WW II!" This is open to debate. I known Europeans who believe WW II would have never happened if the Czechs resisted Hitler's invasion.
I do agree that Moslems should not be allowed in the US. We Christians are not allowed in most of Arabia, so they should not be allowed in the US. Fair is Fair.

Saying "all" Muslims are this or that is just as wrong as saying "all" Christians believe a certain way, or "all" Jews believe a certain way. Just look at how utterly splintered and factionalized Christianity is. Islam has Sunnis, Shi'ites, and lots of other sects and beliefs. Sunnis and Shi'ites are at each other's throats in Iraq since the U.S. occupation began. Study the Talmud and you might have a different perception of which major religion is steeped in hatred of "others."


The U.S. was on excellent terms with the Middle East until the creation of Israel. Muslims liked us and Americans were respected and looked up to. Also, being a backward people,Muslims are no more a genuine "threat" to us than are any other Third World people outside the U.S. Our biggest current threat is the reconquista plan to make the Southwest part of Mexico. That's what our government and military should be focused on, not on doing the bidding of Zionist Israel and the oil companies. To the extent Muslims are a threat, it is also because of the anti-European immigration policies of the fedgov and its media enablers.


We do agree that Muslims shouldn't be allowed in the U.S. But not because it's "fair" to reciprocate, but because it's the best policy for America.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

with the 4th of July coming up, it is important to remember those brave White men who gave their lives and fortunes to forge this nation from nothing and throw off the shackles of an oppressive, illegal government.

stop and think about the apathy, the lame excuses, and the cowardice that permeates White America today ... and then reflect on what our forefathers did. what sacrifices they made.

truly, they were greater men than we have now:the "citizens" who can't be bothered to know the issues or even vote and "elected leaders" who are purposefully turning our land and its resources over to third worlders and jews.

as an aside, the following is often cited, but the accuracy has been called into question. still, until i see evidence to the contrary, i'll report it as the historical tradition it has been.

The Fate of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?


Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.


Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two sons captured.


Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.


They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. What kind of men were they?


Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.


Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.


Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move his family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.


Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.


At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.


Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.


John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.


Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates. Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."


They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British.


We were British subjects at that time and we fought our own government!


Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid. Remember: freedom is never free!


I hope you will show your support by please sending this to as many people as you can. It's time we get the word out that patriotism is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer, picnics, and baseball games.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

why don't we learn THIS in our history classes? of course, that's a rhetorical question.

<H1>The one man army: How a Cambridge-educated botanist fought a three-year war against 4,000 Japanese troops</H1>
<DIV id=ecxdigg- ="ecx-r ecx">By Annabel Venning

The headlights of a Morris saloon car cut through the dense blackness of the tropical night.

Driving after dark was forbidden in Japanese-occupied Malaya, and the men in the car knew that if they were caught they would face torture and beheading.

Six of the group were Chinese guerillas. But one of them was Captain Freddy Spencer Chapman, a British special forces officer stranded behind enemy lines but determined to keep fighting, even when racked with disease and suffering from terrible injuries.


<DIV =ecxclear>
<DIV =ecxthinCenter>

Jungle soldier: Freddy Spencer Chapman pictured in Tibet in 1936
It was July 1942. Five months earlier, in what Winston Churchill termed the worst disaster in British history, the British colonies of Malaya and Singapore had fallen to the Japanese army.
Aside from Chapman, among the few British troops now left on the Malayan peninsula were the thousands of prisoners-of-war incarcerated in camps, often in horrific conditions.

If caught, Chapman knew he would be treated not as a prisoner-of-war but a spy and duly executed. Several of his ex-comrades had already been captured and beheaded.

Suddenly, out of the night came headlights. A Japanese army truck loomed towards them.
'Japun, <CITE>Japun,' </CITE>shouted the Chinese guerillas in panic. The Morris swerved violently and came to a halt in front of the truck.

Chapman could see they were hopelessly outnumbered: the truck contained at least 40 Japanese.


<DIV =ecxthinCenter>

Celebrated: Freddy Spencer Chapman entered the war as a much decorated lieutenant colonel with the Seaforth Highlanders
But as the six Chinese dashed frantically for the cover of the roadside trees, Chapman seized his chance.

Crouching behind the Morris, he lobbed a couple of grenades into the truck before he, too, dashed towards the jungle.

His courage cost him dearly. A bullet passed through his left arm and another caught him on the side of his face. As he stumbled through the darkness, a mortar bomb exploded beside him, throwing him against a rubber tree.

With the Japanese strafing the ground with mortar and machine-gun fire, it was clear he had to keep moving.

Together with one of the Chinese guerillas, he ran through the trees as, for three hours, the Japanese raked the jungle with bullets.

The jungle camp that had been their intended destination was at least 14 miles away and Chapman and the guerilla had no water or food, no compass or a map, and only the stars to guide them.

He wrote a diary in Eskimo in case it fell into enemy hands

Chapman had lost a lot of blood. Even before his new injuries, his left leg was weak from an old bullet wound, and he was frequently racked with painful bouts of dysentery.

But hour after hour he drove himself onwards, through thorn thickets and paddy swamps, down sheer ravines, up steep hillsides.

Keeping going was, he wrote afterwards, a matter of willpower: 'The capabilities of the human body are almost unlimited.'

Fortunately, willpower was a quality that Freddy Spencer Chapman possessed in abundance.

After marching all night, and much of the following day, he and his companion made it back to their temporary camp.

And it was there, in the ensuing days, that he was told of the damage he had caused to the enemy.

'It was with great satisfaction I learned my grenades had accounted for eight of them and wounded many more'.

It was not the first blow Chapman had struck against the Japanese.

In a new biography, historian Brian Moynahan recounts how the young officer successfully led a tiny resistance war that wrought such havoc on Japanese supply lines that local commanders were convinced they were looking for a 200-strong force of Australian guerillas and dispatched a force of 4,000 to catch them.


<DIV =ecxclear>
<DIV =ecxthinCenter>

Chapman single-handedly wreaked so much havoc on Japanese supply lines they thought he was a 200-strong force
Yet Chapman's exploits have largely gone overlooked in the history books, forgotten amid the many tales of heroism from the conflict in Europe.

That is a terrible injustice. For his story of endurance in the fetid heat of the Malayan jungle is surely one of the most awe-inspiring of the whole war.

So how did this unlikely hero end up trapped behind enemy lines?

Chapman's survival skills had been honed during a tough boyhood. Orphaned young, he grew to be solitary, self-reliant and resourceful.

He exulted in pushing himself to extremes, once encouraging his fellow pupils to hit him over the head with a cricket bat 'to see how hard he could take it.'

After Cambridge University he became an explorer, learning to thrive on danger, discomfort and exhaustion.

He joined the army at the outbreak of war, soon transferring to special forces. In September 1941, as tensions in the Far East mounted, Chapman was posted to Singapore as the second in command of a Special Training School, to prepare expats for resistance against the Japanese, should they invade.

But he found the colonial authorities dismissive. Neither Singapore, the so-called 'Impregnable Fortress', nor Malaya, protected by its thick jungle barrier, would ever fall to the 'little yellow men', they insisted.

Chapman was refused permission to train either British civilians or local Chinese communists who settled in the region and hated the Japanese since their homeland had been invaded in 1937.

It was not until Japanese troops landed in Malaya and bombed Singapore on December 8, 1941, that Chapman was finally taken seriously.

He only had time to give a crash course in guerilla tactics to a handful of volunteers before the Japanese forces were on his doorstep and he was forced to flee.

Chapman trekked for days until he was deep behind enemy lines.

<DIV =ecxthinRHS>

Heralded: Chapman's warfare skills earned him praise from Earl Mountbatten
Despite his training, he had little experience of the jungle environment, with its green cathedral of trees that almost blocked out the sunlight, thorns and leeches that tore into the flesh, and the searing heat that left them drenched in sweat by day, only to shiver with cold at night.

Wading through swamps, hacking his way through dense vegetation, struggling to navigate when he could barely see the sun, let alone any landmarks, he became weak as his food supplies dwindled to nothing.

His original intention had been to rendezvous with another pocket of British resistance fighters.

But when he arrived at the prearranged point, he discovered that he had been left behind - assumed lost or dead.

Undeterred, Chapman unleashed his guerilla campaign.

In the 'mad fortnight' that followed, as Chapman later referred to it, he crept through the jungle night after night to lay charges on railway bridges and roads, derailing troop and supply trains, and blowing convoys of trucks high into the air before raking them with bullets and grenades.

Chapman estimated that, together with the help of two other British officers, he derailed eight trains, damaged 15 bridges, cut the railway track in 60 places, destroyed 40 trucks or cars and accounted for between 500 and 1,500 casualties.

<DIV =ecxclear>
It was, as Earl Mountbatten would later describe it: 'more than a whole division of the British Army could have achieved'.

The risks were immense. When any of the locals who assisted him were caught, their whole village would be burnt to the ground - the inhabitants incinerated inside their houses, or shot and bayoneted to death, men, women and children.

Chastened by such endurance, despite suffering many of the jungle's ills - pneumonia, infected leech bites and blackwater fever, a variant of malaria that caused him 'frightful vomiting and dysentery, accompanied by such agonising pains across my pelvis that it seemed as if all my bones must come apart'.

When the fever was at its height, his fits were so bad that two men had to hold him down.

On another, he was gripped by a bout of malarial fever so acute that the guerillas had to gag him lest his chattering teeth give their position away to a Japanese search party nearby.

Yet each time, Chapman recovered. The jungle, he later said, was neutral: 'It is the attitude of mind that determines whether you go under or survive.'

<DIV id=ecxext-gen1809 =ecxmoduleHalf>
<H2>'It was terrible to lie alone in the jungle with hours to live,' Freddy Chapman
</H2>

To occupy himself, Chapman studied botany - pressing flowers, identifying bird species and writing copious notes.

'I had always made a point of doing this in any country I ever visited for any length of time,' he wrote, 'and I saw no reason why the presence of the Japs should prevent me now.'

He also kept a diary, writing in Eskimo - which he had learned on an expedition to Greenland in his youth - lest it should fall into Japanese hands.

Often, he became restless and took himself off on hunting expeditions into the jungle, learning to move silently on bare feet, to catch deer with his bare hands.

He travelled to other guerilla camps and en route he lived variously with Chinese bandits, Malay tribespeople and communists.

On one such visit he was served a special banquet, with an unfamiliar meat. It was only later he learned the hideous truth.

'I was told I had been eating Jap,' he wrote. 'Though I would not knowingly have become a cannibal, I was quite interested to have sampled human flesh.'

On another occasion he fell in with some communists whose leader was, he suspected, about to betray him to the Japanese. So one night he slipped away into the jungle - unarmed, with little food and no navigational tools.

Hacking his way through the jungle tested even Chapman's immense physical and mental strength.
The heat seemed to rise up from the ground, torturing him with thirst, his heavy rucksack rubbed the skin off his shoulders, midges bit him till his eyes were swollen almost shut.


<DIV =ecxthinCenter>

Interests: Chapman studied botany in his spare time
Weak and disoriented, misfortune finally caught up with him: he stumbled on a Japanese patrol and was captured.

For any other man, this would have spelled the end.

But with guile and charm, Chapman persuaded the Japanese officer not to tie him up and in the dead of night he was able to wriggle out under the tent flap and escape into the jungle once more.
For six days he marched on his ulcerated, weakened legs, light-headed with fever and hunger, barely stopping to sleep.

The steep ravines and mountains tested him to the limit, as Japanese planes circled overhead searching for the British prey who had so humiliated them.

It was only when Chapman realised, to his horror, that he had been walking in a huge circle that he finally despaired.

He lay, sweating and feverish, in a jungle shelter, singing old love songs and remembering former girlfriends.

'It was an unpleasant sensation to lie there alone in the depths of the jungle, convinced that I had only a few hours to live.' He was just 36.

But the story does not end there. For miraculously, little by little, Chapman once again recovered his strength and eventually made it back to his old friends in the guerilla camp.

And in December 1943, he was overjoyed to be joined by two special forces officers, John Davis and Richard Broome, who had been landed in Malaya by submarine to coordinate guerilla activity for a planned Allied invasion.

For over a year they worked as a three-man unit, training Chinese guerillas, making contact with other resistance groups and trying desperately to procure a working radio.

At last, in February 1945, they obtained one and made contact with the British forces in Ceylon, who were at first reluctant to believe that any of them, but particularly Chapman, could possibly be alive after so long in the jungle.

A rescue plan was soon launched to bring the jungle heroes home and in May 1945, after a hazardous journey to the coast, they were picked up by submarine and taken back to Ceylon.

Chapman's heroic tale of survival was over and three months later Japan finally surrendered.

In recognition of his extraordinary achievements and endurance he was given a DSO and bar, although not the Victoria Cross that many, including Mountbatten, thought he deserved.

Yet for years after the war, Chapman felt a keen sense of despair. Having sealed off his emotions in the jungle, in peace-time he found himself tormented by memories of 'companions shot down beside me . . . the screams of defenceless Chinese women and children bayoneted to death by the Japanese'.

He married and had three sons, and a successful career as a headmaster.

But aged 64, weakened by the illnesses he had picked up in the jungle and suffering from depression, he shot himself in his study.

'I don't want you to have to nurse an invalid for the rest of my life,' he wrote in a note to his wife.

It was a last sacrifice of a courageous and utterly English hero, a man who gave every ounce of his mental and physical strength to the cause he believed in, whose extraordinary bravery and tenacity were an inspiration to all who observed him.

Perhaps only now, with the publication of this biography, will Freddy Spencer Chapman win the recognition his memory deserves.

As one SOE officer and historian said of him, his survival in such circumstances and against such overwhelming odds represents: 'Evidence of what the human body can be prevailed upon by the human spirit to endure.'

"¢ <CITE style="FONT-STYLE: italic">JUNGLE SOLDIER: The True Story of Freddy Spencer Chapman, by Brian Moynahan, is published by Quercus, priced £18.99.

</CITE>

 

[celticdb15]

That story is incredible. I can't wait to read this book.

 

[jcolec02]

I think that in 20 years, after the Chinese have taken over this country due to our overwhelming debt to them, we will know who we really should have been afraid ofwww.youtube.com/watch?v=9A9eEdited by: jcolec02

 

[Tom Iron]

I'm going to add an excerpt of a speech given by Booker T. Washington in 1896 to the Harvard alumni association. This is the meat of the speech.

"If my life in the past has meant anything in the lifting up of my people and the bringing about of better relations between your race and mine, I assure you from this day it will mean doubly more. In the economy of God, there is but one standard. This country demands that every race measure itself by the American Standard. By it a race must stand or fail, and in the last analysis mere sentiment counts for little. during the next half century and more, my race must continue passing through the severe American crucible. We are to be tested in our patience, our forbearance, our power to endure wrong, to withstand temptations, to economize, to acquire and use skill; our ability to compete, to succeed in commerce, to disregard the superficial for the real, the appearance for the substance, to be great yet small, learned yet simple, high and yet the servant of all. This, this is the passport to all that is best in the life of our Republic, and the Negro must possess it, or be debarred."
_______________________________________________________________________

I found this speech a few years ago and was so impressed with it, I keep referring to it. Booker T. Washington instinctively new what this nation was all about. his feel for this country was imbeded in him down the the marrow of his bones. He was a truly a great man, no matter his color. However, what he couldn't know at the time, was that his people, on the whole couldn't measure up. It was/is too much for them. Actually, it's too much for many people today to think in such terms of Americanism. But certainly, the blacks are "debarred," and it's nothing I did, or anybody else but themselves. Nobody has the power to debar anyone or group from becoming an American if they want. It's always been up to the different groups. Just like Washington said. The blacks chose not to try, therefore they're out. Too bad.

Tom Iron...