"Juan McAmnasty" - Hero or Fraud?

[DixieDestroyer]

No disrepect to anu veterans here on CF (as my Dad was in Viet Nam & Grandfather was KIA in Korea, Chosin Reservoir), but IMHO Globalist shill "Juan McAmnasty's" "war hero" status is questionable at best...

McCain & the POW Coverup

The Scoop on McCain in Nam

Vets Against McCain

 

[screamingeagle]

Where are the recordings of the 38 anti-american propaganda broadcasts. These would be recorded by military intelligence. You can learn much about your enemy by listening to their propaganda broadcasts.
Due to his personality, in the 25 tears that Mccain has served in goverment, he has made many enemies. It would be easy to leck these tapes out.
I will believe this when I hear the tapes. The rest of the srticle may have some credibility, but not the tapes.

 

[White Shogun]

I've seen some interviews of guys who were there with him, and they admire and respect McCain. I don't care if the guy broke and made tapes after torture. Supposedly he had a chance to leave and he turned it down because of the 'first in, first out' rule and there were guys there who had been there longer than him.

 

[Solomon Kane]

The best that can be said about McCain is that he "served and that he suffered". For that he certainly deserves some respect.

However, I thought a "hero" was something more than a serviceman, a hero was an "above and beyond the call of duty" guy.

In his own words, he gave info and made propaganda broadcasts because of what he interpreted as an implied threat of torture or an implied threat of non-treatment of the broken leg which he incurred when his plane was shot down. It did not reach the point of actual torture.

When a communist vietnamese delegation visited in the 90's, he weirdly embraced his old "torturers."

He viciously attacks anyone who suggests that Vietnamese might have deliberately retained prisoners after the 1973 release. See the congressional films on this.

Do his Vietnamese captors have information on him? Which would give the lie to his hero status? I don't know...but it could be.

We also know this as a public fact. He was a less than satisfactory pilot who crashed his own plane 4-5 times before the north vietnamese finally did it for him the next time.

One who served, yes...a hero? no.

 

[Guest]

He served. He was a POW. That's it. He was never a hero.

 

[Guest]

Colonel David Hackworth on John McCain

 

[Menelik]

I consider any American serving honorably a hero. Life in the armed forces is hard and dangerous even in peacetime. I'm not a fan of McCain, I early voted for Barr, but I see nothing good coming from criticizing how well he held up while a POW. Especially from people who never served or went through what he did.

 

[jaxvid]

I consider any American serving honorably a hero. Life in the armed forces is hard and dangerous even in peacetime. I'm not a fan of McCain, I early voted for Barr, but I see nothing good coming from criticizing how well he held up while a POW. Especially from people who never served or went through what he did.

Yeah there's plenty to hate on him about since then so I don't see why anyone would go there. His sellout of the POW movement is similar to his sellout on amnesty so the only pertinent issue is that he's a sell-out.

 

[Guest]

John McCain has not done a single thing in his entire life that makes him an actual war hero. He's just a bad pilot who got captured. He does not have a Medal of Honor.

His status as a "hero" is part of the general decline of standards in the US. His political handlers have used this to convince people that he is some kind of hero. He is not.

Not to pick on Menelik, but his definition of a "hero", anybody that served, is absolutely ridiculous, and a perfect example of the very low standard of praise now mandatory in many sectors of public American discourse.

My father was in the US Army Special Forces during Vietnam, was a weapons and radio expert, served for several years, then joined the National Guard. He was not in any way a hero, just one of millions of men who served.

 

[Menelik]

Not to pick on Menelik, but his definition of a "hero", anybody that served, is absolutely ridiculous, and a perfect example of the very low standard of praise now mandatory in many sectors of public American discourse.

Don't worry. I don't take internet banter personal.

I also don't think my definition is ridiculous. I hold people in public service like cops/firemen also in high regard. You are engaging in an ad hominem attack. Don't take it personal though.

 

[jaxvid]

Not to pick on Menelik, but his definition of a "hero", anybody that served, is absolutely ridiculous, and a perfect example of the very low standard of praise now mandatory in many sectors of public American discourse.

Don't worry. I don't take internet banter personal.

I also don't think my definition is ridiculous. I hold people in public service like cops/firemen also in high regard. You are engaging in an ad hominem attack. Don't take it personal though.

nevada isn't engaging in an ad hominem attack (unless his post was edited) an ad hominem attack would be to call you (Menelik) names or insult your chararcter in order to discredit your arguement, which he didn't do.

I agree in principle with his point. People who are in the military or do public service jobs are not heroes, in fact some of them are outright scoundrals even criminals. They are to be admired in many cases but I don't think it raises all of them to the level of hero.

But the concept means different things to different people. I think you can go either way on McCain. Some of his military career certainly qualifies as heroic, that sh*t he went through in VN was serious no matter what. He also served in combat which he didn't have to do being the heir of decorated Navy admirals. The very fact that he kept getting in jets even though he had crashed before (several times) was certainly brave if not stupid, which is a kind of definition of heroic.

I think if you don't like the guy then he's NOT a hero, if you like him then he IS a hero. It's very subjective.

 

[White Shogun]

Good point about the jets, jaxvid, I hadn't thought of that, nor the fact that he went into combat despite having every opportunity to avoid doing so. And he remained in Vietnamese custody even when given the opportunity to leave.

That, however, is irrelevant as to whether I should support him as a politician when he works to pass legislation like McCain-Feingold and McCain-Kennedy.

 

[Solomon Kane]

I see nothing good coming from criticizing how well he held up while a POW. Especially from people who never served or went through what he did.

I don't know whether this post is directed at me, at others, or at the critics who are in the links provided by Colonel and Nevada, but I did not *criticize* "how well he held up", I simply said that it did not rise to a heroic level--though I guess that is "criticism" in the broad sense.

Here's another issue though--*if* he did do a lot of unpatriotic things (make pro-north vietnamese broadcasts, provide military info), and *if* he did receive special privileges while held captive, --isn't he *subject to blackmail by foreign powers for his less than heroic performance?*

For instance there are at least four governments which know the truth of what went on in Hanoi.

1) The Vietnamese Government (i.e. the old NV govt which now governs the whole of Vietnam)

2) The Russian Government (because these interrogation sessions involved Soviet intelligence--and these files are now owned by the Russian government).

3) The Cuban government (because there were also Cuban intelligence agent at these interrogations).

4) The US government (which has all the original broadcasts, and which probably de-briefed McCain upon his return).

And if these 4 know, can the Israelis not know of this? This seems unlikely. So we have to add a 5th government: the Israeli government.

Will any of these governments (our own included) use this leverage to get McCain to do their bidding?

Just a concern. Hope everyone is well.