Early releases of Conseco's book made the papers today. He implicates McGwire, saying he shot him in the butt. Some others are going to get smeared too. As far as McGuire is concerned I suspected he might be a steroid user. He was a great home run hitter from early on but his numbers just got too high. I always felt he retired early to avoid bad publicity. Incidentally McGwire still denies ever taking steroids.
Jose Conseco & steroids
- Thread starter jaxvid
- Start date
kevin
Guru
Jose canseco is pi$$ing me off not just because he impliment mcguire in this whole steriod case, vbut because he was suppose to mow my lawn last week and he never did, also he did a terrible job squeegeeing my car windows if he keeps this up in am not going to let him stay in my guarage any more.
kevin
Guru
last time i saw jose canseco he was in an mc hammer video. it is nice to see they both still have careers now. Hammer is the employee of the month at denny's and canseco started his own business with just a rang and a squeegee.
If you remember how McGwire looked in his early years compared to his later years,there is a big difference.I think many of us suspected he might be on the juice.But remember as a skinny rookie in 1987 he whacked 49 HR's which I think gives him far more legitimacy as a major power hitter over the likes of Barry Bonds since McGwire has always been one while Bonds in his later years had a lot of HR's.What athletes show that much improvement in their mid-thirties? None.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
The four most visible guys to me, who always looked like they were on juice was Canseco, Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire. I never thought about there increase in hits, but I did notice how big they got. Major difference in all these guys from early to late career.
I think McGwire is innocent until proven guilty. Unlike Bonds and Canseco there is absolutely no evidence that I'm aware of that he used steroids other than Canseco's book. I wouldn't trust Canseco as far as I can throw him. He's a major head case and screwup.
Sosa went from being skinny to huge. Although McGwire got a lot bigger as his career went on, he was big as a rookie. I can remember his '87 rookie year well and he was one big power-hitting kid. If he worked out with weights religiously over a long period of time, and pushed the legal limits with andro and other substances he could have become that muscular without juicing as he was naturally very strong. I think the fact that Tony LaRussa has come out and strongly defended McGwire against Canseco's charges is important also as LaRussa managed both for a long time and was in a pretty good position to judge.
When McGwire set the home run record he did so with great class and respect for the game, and for the family of Roger Maris. He kept his andro out in the open in his locker because it was over the counter and not banned by baseball. When he left the game he did so quietly and with dignity. In fact, McGwire always conducted himself admirably. Mark McGwire is someone who has always impressed me as having a lot of integrity, so I'll need more "proof" than a book by a creep like Jose Canseco.
Sosa went from being skinny to huge. Although McGwire got a lot bigger as his career went on, he was big as a rookie. I can remember his '87 rookie year well and he was one big power-hitting kid. If he worked out with weights religiously over a long period of time, and pushed the legal limits with andro and other substances he could have become that muscular without juicing as he was naturally very strong. I think the fact that Tony LaRussa has come out and strongly defended McGwire against Canseco's charges is important also as LaRussa managed both for a long time and was in a pretty good position to judge.
When McGwire set the home run record he did so with great class and respect for the game, and for the family of Roger Maris. He kept his andro out in the open in his locker because it was over the counter and not banned by baseball. When he left the game he did so quietly and with dignity. In fact, McGwire always conducted himself admirably. Mark McGwire is someone who has always impressed me as having a lot of integrity, so I'll need more "proof" than a book by a creep like Jose Canseco.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
I'm just basing my opinion on how they got big throughout their careers. If what they used was legal, i have no problem with it. I do have a problem with those who use illegal stuff to inflate their stats etc. That type of abuse should not be allowed.
My understanding is that andro really doesn't do very much. Weight lifters I know have said that people generally have stopped using andro because the results just weren't there. The good part of these accussations is that it does give much more attention to the steroid issue. Perhaps there will be more of a media outcry for stiffer testing. In the end, that could only benefit baseball and the honest white players.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Kaptain Poop, I couldn't agree more.
Another reason I don't trust anything Canseco says is because at various times over the years he has claimed he has been denied his due because of "anti-hispanic racism." That's ridiculous of course because MLB, as a result of the drop in the number of American blacks in the bigs from nearly 30 percent down to only about 10 percent in the past generation, is doing everything possible to sign and develop hispanic players, at the expense of white American high school and college players. Plus, Canseco can easily pass as white. Claiming "racism" when you can fill out any form imaginable, put down your ancestry as white and nobody will blink an eye, is stupidity, which Jose has in abundance.
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Don, where can I find the numbers about the demographics of the major sports. I've always wondered where you can find that stuff. Any help would be appreciated.
If someone could take Andro, why would they take
steroids? Andro was a legal, over the counter substance, when
McGuire used it. He would have no need for other steroids.
His last season was terrible, but he still hit for tremendous
power. He had a phase that year where every time he hit the ball
it was out of the park. Eleven hits in consecutive order went for
homeruns. That is great power. I think this helps make him
legitimate.
steroids? Andro was a legal, over the counter substance, when
McGuire used it. He would have no need for other steroids.
His last season was terrible, but he still hit for tremendous
power. He had a phase that year where every time he hit the ball
it was out of the park. Eleven hits in consecutive order went for
homeruns. That is great power. I think this helps make him
legitimate.
Quiet Speed
Mentor
I'm with you IceSpeed. It just seems implausable. Why in the world would anybody getting injected with high powered steroids run down to the health food store or wherever and buy a few bottles of andro? It's a little absurd. Edited by: Quiet Speed
It may also be possible that McGwire may have tried steroids one time, I'm sure a lot of athletes do that and just decide that is not the way to go. In my opinion that does not make them steroid users. Peer pressure is hard to fight, I know I gave in to peer pressure a few times as a youngster.
All this steroid talk may provide some cover for Bonds. If it looks like everybody is doing it then MLB doesn't have to single Bonds out. I don't like the looks of this.
All this steroid talk may provide some cover for Bonds. If it looks like everybody is doing it then MLB doesn't have to single Bonds out. I don't like the looks of this.
What you guys are saying about why take andro if you're doing steroids makes perfect sense -- but not to the media. Was listening to Dan Patrick's radio show today and he had on Brian Burwell, a black talk show host from St. Louis. His theory was that McGwire was placing the andro where everyone could see it as a ruse to cover up his steroid use. He claims that 70 percent of the people of St. Louis are behind him in his theory. Somehow I doubt it. The thinking seems to be that if Bonds' marks are going to be tainted then we're gonna take others down with him, especially that great white power hitter Mark McGwire.
Giambi has apologized but it's not enough for the media. They
won't forgive him unless he utters every single word that they
want to hear, and even then they wouldn't. There are so many
strikes against him:
1) He was honest in his Grand Jury testimony. He didn't lie
about not knowing what it was.
2) He had a horrible season last year, which has opened the
door to speculation about how good he'll be in the future.
3) He is not as big a star as Bonds/ not considered one of the
greatest players of all time.
4) He plays in New York.
5) And, of course, he's white.
Everything is stacked against Giambi right now.
won't forgive him unless he utters every single word that they
want to hear, and even then they wouldn't. There are so many
strikes against him:
1) He was honest in his Grand Jury testimony. He didn't lie
about not knowing what it was.
2) He had a horrible season last year, which has opened the
door to speculation about how good he'll be in the future.
3) He is not as big a star as Bonds/ not considered one of the
greatest players of all time.
4) He plays in New York.
5) And, of course, he's white.
Everything is stacked against Giambi right now.
right winger
Guru
Media attention continues to focus on Giambi and McGwire. It's not enough that Giambi apologized. Not directly because of legal considerations, but at least he apologized. In the meantime his teammate Gary Sheffield gets virtually a free pass from the media by denying what Giambi admits.
Right winger, Gary Sheffield bragged he would take a test any place anytime, when a reporter took him up on the offer he weaseled out!
He is always screaming racism and pouting over the alleged poor treatment he's received. When he was with the Brewers he was a nightmare and total disaster in the clubhouse. He claimed he was snubbed and no one befriended him, especially the star whites Yount and Molitor. The club finally traded him. He later admitted to lying about the situation to force them to trade him. He confessed the players tried to welcome him and Robin Yount went out of his way to show him the ropes and make things easier. If any one should have been blackballed it is that devious, treacherous , lying skunk.
He is always screaming racism and pouting over the alleged poor treatment he's received. When he was with the Brewers he was a nightmare and total disaster in the clubhouse. He claimed he was snubbed and no one befriended him, especially the star whites Yount and Molitor. The club finally traded him. He later admitted to lying about the situation to force them to trade him. He confessed the players tried to welcome him and Robin Yount went out of his way to show him the ropes and make things easier. If any one should have been blackballed it is that devious, treacherous , lying skunk.
While drivng this afternoon I caught a portion of the ESPN's afternoon talk show and heard Jose Canseco say that he saw Rafael Palmeiro use steroids and even gave him injections. I never heard that before, was it also in his book, if anyone knows?
Palmeiro's career trajectory has been a lot like Sammy Sosa's -- both started off rather skinny with not much power but then became very large with great power. Palmeiro is a far better all-around player, but as we know the steroids spotlight hasbeen shined by the mediamostly on the few white names involved.
Don, I just did an internet search and discovered Canseco claims to have injected Palmeiro, Ivan Rodriguez and Juan Gonzalez. I don't watch televison but listen to sports shows and the only nameI ever hear in connection with steroid injections from Canseco was Mc Gwire?
Canseco is a complete sleazebag and always has been, but the media gleefully welcomed his accusations against Mark McGwire in his first book, just as they've been having a field day with Roger Clemens since the Mitchell Report was released.
But there's been quitea different media response to Canseco's latest book. This time around he's pretty much being called the lying scum he always was and his newest charges of steroids useare being greeted with a collective yawn. Hmm, could it be because this time the best-known targets are Alex Rodriguez and Magglio Ordonez? Just a coincidence I'm sure. Also, Canseco said during a recent interview, "If I were an investigator and I had to go on pure evidence that I have on Roger Clemens or dealt with Roger Clemens over time, thenI would say no [he didn't use steroids]."
Steroids use in football -- a non-issue (just ask Shawn Merriman). In basketball -- a non-issue. In baseball -- an obsession with the alleged steroids use of well-known white players, while at the same time articles keep appearing asking why no team has yet to sign Barry "Melonhead" Bonds for the 2008 season.
But there's been quitea different media response to Canseco's latest book. This time around he's pretty much being called the lying scum he always was and his newest charges of steroids useare being greeted with a collective yawn. Hmm, could it be because this time the best-known targets are Alex Rodriguez and Magglio Ordonez? Just a coincidence I'm sure. Also, Canseco said during a recent interview, "If I were an investigator and I had to go on pure evidence that I have on Roger Clemens or dealt with Roger Clemens over time, thenI would say no [he didn't use steroids]."
Steroids use in football -- a non-issue (just ask Shawn Merriman). In basketball -- a non-issue. In baseball -- an obsession with the alleged steroids use of well-known white players, while at the same time articles keep appearing asking why no team has yet to sign Barry "Melonhead" Bonds for the 2008 season.