Is Craig Biggio a hall of famer?

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,179
He has 2930 hits and is going to pass 3000 hits if he stays injury free next season. But he is the quietest to 3000 I have ever seen. He seems like a compiler more than a best player of his generation type?
 

Deacon

Guru
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
487
3,000 hits
Ninth all-time in doubles with 637. Next year he probably will surpass George Brett for fifth all-time in that category.

I say he's hall of fame.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
He made the unprecendented move from All Star catcher to All Star (and Gold Glove winning) second baseman, to outstanding outfielder. He has surprising power and has over 400 career stolen bases and 7 All Star appearances, 4 Gold Gloves, 5 Silver Sluggers, and regular appearances among theyearly leaders in games, at bats, hits, runs, singles, doubles, stolen bases and walks. He's been one of the best leadoff hitters ever.


Because of his productivity and durability Biggio's moved among the all time leaders in several categories. He and Jeff Bagwell led the Astros to a prolonged period as one of the best teams in the National League. He's been a class act and great role model.Biggio may be the least publicized player to get to 3,000 hits, but I'd say that's more a sign of the Caste times and how the media works than a poor reflection on him. Hasn't Biggio deserved an article or mention for, say, every 100 times Barry Bonds is shoved down our throats?
 

Realgeorge

Mentor
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
675
If the Astros could win a World Series, then Biggio and Bagwell are both secure HOF inductees. Top notch players as you have described
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Biggio continues to labor in obscurity as he nears 3,000 hits. Well, not complete obscurity -- The Sporting News decided to take a totally gratuitous shot at him this week (as well as taking a dig atBiggio's fellowfuture Hall of Famer Roger Clemens). In the "5 In Your Face" feature in its baseball coverage, TSN writes: "Some players objected to the Yankees' giving Roger Clemens permission to skip certain road games. One player not upset was ex-teammate Craig Biggio, who didn't show up for road games last year, either." WTF???


TSN is about 99% trendy fluff. I can remember when it was a valuable source of serious journalism, and a tremendous baseball source. Every box score was printed, every imaginable player stat, lots of coverage of each team. Now it's more like a print version of Entertainment Tonight.
 

LabMan

Mentor
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
644
Location
Pennsylvania
The extra innings baseball package brings much coverage of the Houston Astros.The caste announcers seem to "verbally wince",when they talk about Craig Biggio,and terrific new White centerfielder Hunter Pence.

The audio however,seems to be turned up whenever Carlos Lee,"The great ElCabio"as he is called,has a good at bat,or does well in the field.The camera seems to follow ElCabio into the dugout where he projects his "dugout illuminating smile"
 

KG2422

Mentor
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
986
Location
Texas
Craig is everyone's favorite astro around here. He may not get the national attention, but all of those within a couple hundred miles of houston appreciate his talent, tenacity, and toughness - oh and loyalty as well. How many players stay with one team their whole career anymore, especially one as long as his?
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Biggio is just 4 hits away from 3,000, but Tom Verducci of SI won't be joining the countdown.


Craig Biggio: 3,000 hits
How many needed: 4
Wow factor: 7
Why it's a big deal: Biggio, 41, is the ultimate grinder, a guy who survived getting hit by more pitches than any player in history, position switches from catcher to second base to centerfield to second base and a rough-and-tumble style of play to ring up 3,000 hits. Let it never be said that Biggio did not squeeze every last hit out of his ability. Only 20 players in baseball history ever reached base safely more times.
What's missing: True greatness and a respectful finish. Here are Biggio's on-base percentages over the past five seasons: .350, .337, .325, .306, .279. See a pattern? Somebody flick the light switch off-and-on a couple of times; it's time to go home once 3,000 is out of the way. Biggio finished in the top 10 in MVP voting only twice, had 200 hits only once and in 40 postseason games posted a .297 OBP and stole only two bases.



Yes Tom, 41 year old players tend not to play at the same level they did during their peak years. Even 41 year old blacks slow down. Wait, how many 41 year old black superstars are there currently in baseball?


Far from being a "grinder" with limited ability, Biggio was an excellent and versatile athlete. He is one of the all-time great leadoff hitters, who also won 4 Gold Gloves among many other accomplishments that could be noted. Biggio is a unique talent and deserves better than to be trashed as he achieves a great career-defining milestone.
 

Bart

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,329
Good article about Biggio:


by Ray Flowers
May 6, 2005


No respect...it was the popular refrain of the late comedian Rodney Dangerfield. Whether or not Dangerfield was a good comedian is pretty subjective, but the merits of Craig Biggio leave no doubt that he has excelled at his chosen craft.

One man that hasn't overlooked the contributions of Biggio is Bill James. In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, published in 2003, Biggio is ranked as the 35<SUP>th</SUP> best player...of all-time! (see p.361. James also follows on page 362 with a description of why Biggio is better than Ken Griffey Jr. to name but one player). Now before you start a Bill James for mental patient drive, let's look at some of the details that I think support his position.
VERSATILITY

(1) Biggio is a 7 time all-star, 6 times at 2B and once at C. Think about that, he was voted one of the best players in his league at the hardest defensive position in baseball and as a middle infielder.

(2) With his 400<SUP>th</SUP> steal the other night, Biggio the 4<SUP>th</SUP> player ever to have 225 HR, 1,000 RBI, 1,500 Runs, 400 SB, 2,600 Hits, 500 2B and 1,000 BB. You might have heard of the other 3 because I think they were, or are, pretty good: Paul Molitor, Rickey Henderson and Barry Bonds.


THE 2<SUP>nd</SUP> BASEMAN

Biggio, who also qualifies at 2B in almost all fantasy leagues this year after being predominantly an OF the last two years, was one of the most prolific offensive 2<SUP>nd</SUP> basemen of all-time. Here are his rankings, all-time, as a 2<SUP>nd</SUP> baseman.

.293 AVG, 20<SUP>th</SUP> all-time (based on 3,000 PA)
171 HR, 13<SUP>th</SUP> all-time
716 RBI, 26<SUP>th</SUP>
1,191 Runs, 14<SUP>th</SUP>
310 SB, 17<SUP>th</SUP>
.387 OBP, 12<SUP>th</SUP>
.837 OPS, 10<SUP>th</SUP>

That would be an amazing career, but Biggio didn't stop with those 1,605 games at 2B (prior to 2005), he went on to play 363 games as an OF (on top of his 427 games at C). In fact, here is his career line as of May 2<SUP>nd</SUP>, 2005:

.286 - 237 - 1007 - 1617 - 400 with a .373 OBP.

Now that should impress you, but if it doesn't perhaps a little perspective is in order. The above list of the three players who can compare to Biggio's accomplishments (Molitor, Henderson and Bonds) actually loses Henderson, so that in the history of baseball only Molitor, Bonds and Biggio have had careers with over a .285 AVG, 230 HR, 1000 RBI, 1600 Runs and 400 SB. Am I getting through to you finally?


THE ACHIEVEMENTS

While Biggio may not have the name recognition befitting a player of his versatility and talent, he does have a pretty impressive list of achievements to run down.

~ 7 all-star appearances<SUP>
</SUP>~ 4 Gold Gloves (as a 2B).
~ 5 Silver Slugger Awards

He also finished in the Top 10 in the league in:

~Games Played, 7 times
~AB, 10 times
~AVG, twice
~Runs, 9 times
~Hits, 6 times
~2B, 6 times
~SB, 5 times
~OBP, 4 times
~OPS, once

In fact, if we do a little mixing and matching, we can produce a historic season. Here are Biggio's career highs in each category...what if they had all occurred in the same year?

.325, 22 HR, 88 RBI, 146 Runs, 50 SB with a .415 OBP and a .916 OPS.

In case you are wondering, and I know you are, no player has ever done all of that in one season.

One last set of numbers...here is an average season for Biggio over the last 10 years (1995-2004):
.289-18-68-111-23 with a .379 OBP

I don't know about you, but I think that's pretty darn good for a leadoff hitter.


THE VERDICT

The contention that Biggio is one of the best players of all-time is beyond doubt in my mind. Never one, like teammate Jeff Bagwell, to call attention to himself, Biggio is hurt because of the relative anonymity that he receives from the media at large. No tattoos and no steroids for Biggio, he just busts his butt every day and gives the Astros all that he has. That type of effort and allegiance, when combined with his uncommon skills, should assure him a plaque in Cooperstown.

ADDENDUM

For those of you looking for more proof of Biggio's greatness, you should look towards Similarity Scores (developed by Bill James). Similarity Scores is a system which takes into account all offensive information to render a player's overall offensive contribution (to read more about Similarity Scores see: http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/similarity.shtml). According to Similarity Scores, Biggio receives a mark of 833. How does that compare to some of the other all-time greats? How about if we compare Biggio to two HOF 2B: Joe Morgan- 833, Ryne Sandberg- 826

Told you he was good.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Did Biggio ever do it in style, getting five hits to reach the 3,000 mark!!
smiley32.gif
smiley32.gif
smiley32.gif



And I even found a nice article about him on ESPN of all places:


[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_ jayson&amp;id=2920433[/url]
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Craig announced today that he's retiring at the end of the season. Seems like the right move to me, he's had a great, Hall of Fame career that will only be tarnished if it looks like he's merely hanging on by continuing to play. A class act all the way and a big loss for MLB.


[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/07/24/bc. bbn.astros.biggio.ap/index.html [/url]
 

Bear Backer

Mentor
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
658
Location
Illinois
My friend says no but I say yes. The 3000 hits alone are enough in my book for him to qualify for the HOF if I was choosing.
 

DixieDestroyer

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
9,464
Location
Dixieland
He's a good candidate, but Atlanta's Dale Murphy should have been in years ago. Dale was a top-notch player on the field and a true gentleman off it.
 

PVD1

Newbie
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
2
Biggio is a sure-fire HOF'er. Compare his stats to HOF 2B Ryne Sandberg and HOF Joe Morgan:

Sandberg: 2386 hits, 403 doubles, 282 HRs, .285 avg., 16 seasons</span><br style="font-weight: bold;">Morgan; 2517 hits, 449 doubles, 268 HRs, .271 avg., 22 seasons</span><br style="font-weight: bold;"><br style="font-weight: bold;">Biggio: 3022+ hits, 662 doubles, 288 HRs, .282 avg., 20 seasons</span>


http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sandbry01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/morgajo02.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/biggicr01.shtml

Edited by: PVD1
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,565
Location
Pennsylvania
Absolutely. Then throw in what a great lead-off hitter Biggio has been, how he played several different positions and played them extremely well, and his leadership abilities, and it's a bad joke that anyone would doubt his Hall of Fame credentials. To me he's a no-brainer first ballot enshrinee.
 

Realgeorge

Mentor
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
675
Seems that Biggio will retire at end of season. He will be sorely missed. Class Act, great hitter
 
Top