I think white team can beat a black team

[White_Savage]

It tells me that minorities were wrongly
discriminated against for years by coaches who didn't think they had
the capability of running an offense. How many black QBs were there
even in the league for the first 15 or so Super Bowls? Kind of hard to
win Super Bowls if the coaches don't allow you to play.

I'm not EVEN letting you get away with this sophistry.

*White_Savage pauses briefly while pugnus-reincarnated looks up the meaning of "sophistry", and quite possibly also "reincarnated".*

It's the same old lie that blacks always fall back on...every black failing is due to racism, every black success is due to blacks just being naturally better than other people...yeah right. Elements at the higher levels of our society have been so eager to put blacks ahead of Whites in everything that they have corrupted the quality of the educational system and the work place, severely weakening our country. With all this behind them, they wouldn't hesistate to manipulate a silly ball game. Negro-Philia has been a sacred cow of the political and media establishment for at least 40 years. If the average black could play QB even half-so well as the Whites, that position would have been 100% black long ago.

"White" coaches and owners are entirely capable of betraying their own race, to say nothing of the many Jews disproportionately represented in positions of power. At some point some blacks of an opposing tribe captured your ancestors and sold them to the White man as slaves. African, Asian, AmerIndian tribes were often defeated by Whites with the help of rival tribes. They hated the ancient enemy more than the recently-arrived aliens. And as the Civil War, WWI and WWII demonstrate, White people are capable of cheerfully KILLING each other for no sensible reason at all. Blood is so often not thicker than water.Edited by: White_Savage

 

[Guest]

Shogun,



I saw your earlier post - it was just easier/quicker for me to respond to the Kaptain.



I never said blacks are so dominant that they can play better than
every position. What I will say now is that, based on the current
composition of NFL rosters, certain positions are dominated by certain
races. I'm sure there are pro caliber non-black WRs, RBs, CBs in the
college ranks, and some of them will be drafted and replace black
athletes on NFL rosters. Talent, with some exceptions, typically rises
to the top. Now since some of you on this site believe that there is an
inherent bias among coaches that will prevent this from happening, then
yes, that is another discussion entirely.



Are there Asians, Hispanics, whites, etc. playing football somewhere
who are better than some African-American athletes in the NFL?
Probably. But I also believe that the overwhelming majority of NFL
caliber players are already in the league. For example, if we were to
mandate (hypothetically speaking) that the best 120 RBs in the world
should be on NFL rosters, I would argue that at least 115 or so are
already there.



You want me to explain Quincy Carter? I can't - he stinks. But he was a
stud QB at Georgia - putting up numbers that paled only in comparison
to Eric Zeier in school history. So he had a better pedigree as a QB
than Matt Jones did coming out of school.



And what is this uproar about Matt Jones switching positions? If a
future employer asked you to perform a different job function than you
were accustomed to (because they believed that your skill sets would be
better suited to the new job) and offered to give you a substantial
raise if you did so, wouldn't you do it? Matt Jones just did what was
best for himself and his family.

 

[White Shogun]

kanye:
This is an issue about which we will have to agree to disagree. There is no way, given the demographics of the population that watches and plays American football, that 98%-100% of certain positions will be dominated so thoroughly by a group that comprises only 12% of that population. No way.

The point about Matt Jones isn't that he didn't get a better deal for himself by switching positions. The point is, were he a black QB coming out of college, with his speed and athleticism, there is no way he is asked to switch positions. A double standard exists, in much the same way that blacks were stereotyped out of the quarterback position, white players are said to be too slow, too short, or hell, even too tall if you listen to Babe Laufenberg, who said that Matt Jones was too tall to ever succeed at WR in the NFL!!

There are any number of examples on other threads on the site, detailing the stats and abilities of white players who's talent exceeds that of numerous black players, but they are cut without hesitation before the regular season begins. A white player has to be stellar at his position and far, far, exceed the abilities of his black counterparts to secure a roster spot.

 

[Bart]

[/QUOTE]

I'm not EVEN letting you get away with this sophistry.

*White_Savage pauses briefly while pugnus-reincarnated looks up the meaning of "sophistry", and quite possibly also "reincarnated".*

.[/QUOTE]


White Savage, that is the best line I've read in a while. Gave me belly laughs.

 

[Guest]

Never fear everyone! I just solved this issue - Madden 06. Played my teamate/roomate/best friendRJ (who isAfrican American and proud of it)in an All-Whites vs All-Blacks. First game I won 42-32. Next game he figured out my cover 2 defence, I think Gates caught 3 TD's and Owens 2 TD's for a dominant 38-21 victory. The decider was won in a nailbiting win to the harlem blitzers, 20-17, after I missed my field goal to equalise. He probably would have won by more if he could go for PAT.





All jokes aside, I honestly think that such a contest would almost certainly be won by the 'Harlem Blitzers' as it were. It would definetly bea slug out though. Think Pro Bowl 04. It's too hard to defend against Peyton with quality guys to throw to and spread the defence, and too hard to defend against both TO, Moss, Harison and Holt when Culpepper is chucking that ball deep.


Up next week isThe WhiteRB coached SamoanWarriors against the RJ coached Ninsei Ninjas. He has made a very good case to have the morton brothers and Hines Ward to throw to with Timmy Chang doing the throwing, however his claim that he should get Fujita because he has an asian last name, and Samari Rolle because his name is Samari are abit dogy. He might need to fish up some Sumo's to play O-Line ala 'The Replacments'. Stay Tuned

 

[Guest]

:
were he a black QB coming out of college, with his speed and athleticism, there is no way he is asked to switch positions. A double standard exists, in much the same way that blacks were stereotyped out of the quarterback position,

Just a quick note:


Hines Ward, Antwan Randel El, Ronald Curry (or was it that other Raiders guy), all have similar stories to Bennet and Matt Jones.

 

[white lightning]

Matt Jones would have made more as a QB than as a wide receiver assuming he was drafted based on his potential.
Kind of like M.Vick who still can't pass very good after several years in the nfl.Everyone knows that QB's make the highest money of any player and are the most important player on the team.There is no one more valuable to the Patriots than Tom Brady.So Kanye,Matt Jones actually lost money by switching.If he would not have agreed to switch,he probably would not even be on a team right now!

 

[Kaptain]

Kanye, I guess I will just agree to disagree. I would fear a team that had peyton manning throwing to bennett, jones, curtis, stokely, and shockeymore than any black qb throwing to moss, owens, harrison, holt, and gates. Hell, stokely is already more of a threat on the colts than harrison and curtis would be more of a threat than holt if he started. As far as matt Jones switching positions, I have no problem with him going to WR - I think it is his best position. But, you will recall that many scouts and experts had him and some still have him slotted to be a TIGHT END! How do you explain that? On NFL.com you can still read the scouting report on him as not having "2nd tier speed" and suffers from "hip stiffness". You can't honestly believe a caste system doesn't exist can you?

 

[White Shogun]

WhiteRb writes:

Never fear everyone! I just solved this issue - Madden 06. Played my teamate/roomate/best friend RJ (who is African American and proud of it) in an All-Whites vs All-Blacks. First game I won 42-32. Next game he figured out my cover 2 defence, I think Gates caught 3 TD's and Owens 2 TD's for a dominant 38-21 victory. The decider was won in a nailbiting win to the harlem blitzers, 20-17, after I missed my field goal to equalise. He probably would have won by more if he could go for PAT.

Its really surprising that you were able to win a football game on Madden '06 with an all-white team. The developers control the abilities of the players and assign the values they think are the most appropriate, which are not necessarily a reflection of reality. See the thread in the Media section of this site for more information.

Secondly, I'm glad that your African-American friend is proud to be so. I have never met a black person who isn't extremely proud of being black. Out of curiosity, are you allowed the same freedom, to be proud of being white?

And how did the two of you approach this game, white vs black? Was there some debate between you about who is better? I'm interested in how you got this game going in the first place.

 

[GWTJ]

White_Savage wrote:


"It's the same old lie that blacks always fall back on...every black failing is due to racism, every black success is due to blacks just being naturally better than other people...yeah right. Elements at the higher levels of our society have been so eager to put blacks ahead of Whites in everything that they have corrupted the quality of the educational system and the work place, severely weakening our country. With all this behind them, they wouldn't hesistate to manipulate a silly ball game. Negro-Philia has been a sacred cow of the political and media establishment for at least 40 years. If the average black could play QB even half-so well as the Whites, that position would have been 100% black long ago. "





As someone who has been in the technology field a long time I can tell you that there is no affirmative action in the tech departments. Companieshave hired minority Russians, Indians, Asians but all tech areas are virtually black free. The few blacks that are there are mostly Islanders, not born in America. Something to think about. Companies need their problems solved. Period.
Edited by: GWTJ

 

[Gary]

Pugnus von Kanye-so your back, what took you so long that ban lasted almost a month! Fact is Hockey is a sport where White men excel[black men can't skate].Italy and Lithuanina both beat the "dream team" in Basketball and yes an All-European Team could win in the NBA. I'll say it again an All-White Baseball team wins and wins pitching alone would favor the White Team and forget any debate you'll be gone from the site very soon.

 

[white lightning]

Ding,Ding,Ding.Let's get ready to RRUUMMBBLLEE!!12 Rounds of Championship Fighting and we have a winner in the red corner.It is Gary still undefeated champ of the world.Pugnus loses again.Ha.ha.

 

[Guest]

White Shogun:

First of all, I just want to say that I've enjoyed our discussion on
this issue, despite the fact that we have differing viewpoints. I'm
interested in viewing the other threads on this site to see examples of
the caste system that you (and others) believe exists in the NFL.



As WhiteRB pointed out, there are examples of high profile black
athletes who changed positions after coming into the NFL. But as you
stated before, this isn't about Matt Jones. Are there NFL talent
evaluators who discriminate against white athletes at certain skill
positions? I can't sit here and tell you that it doesn't happen. By the
same token, there are talent evaluators in the league who don't think
too highly of African-American quarterbacks. It goes both ways, but
even still, talent usually manages to find a home.



Kaptain:

Stokely and Curtis are more of a threat than the #1 WRs on their
respective teams? I don't even think your compatriots on this board
would agree with that assessment. And as to why Matt Jones was
initially slotted as a tight end, the man is 6-6 and weighs 237 lbs. -
how many WRs do you see with that build?



Whitelightning:

Obviously, QBs on average make more than wide receivers. And I've
watched enough football to know that Matt Jones would have been no
better than a career backup in the NFL had he chosen to go that route.
As a starting-caliber receiver, however, he had/has a better chance of
sticking on an NFL roster, thus earning millions of dollars in the
process. By changing positions at the Senior Bowl, Matt Jones hit the
lottery. At either position, he would be evaluated based on his
potential, as all draft picks are. His upside is higher was a WR.
Period.

 

[Don Wassall]

kw, you obviously know football, but you just as obviously haven't made any attempt to understand the Caste System before posting here. We have dealt with quite a few opponents here before, both those who have actually familiarized themselves with our arguments before posting and those, like you, who haven't. The vast majority of the regular posters have indicated to me that they like the board here to be the preserve of those who support Caste Football and what it stands for, so, although you are well mannered and knowledgeable to a degree, it's time to say goodbye. There are countless sports boards out there where your point of view would be welcome.

 

[JD074]

For the most part, these men are searching for talent, regardless of skin color. This is why personnel directors started foaming at the mouth while Matt Jones made a name for himself at the Combine.

I wonder about that. I doubt if too many teams would have picked him where the Jags picked him. Not exactly foaming, IMO.

Is there discrimination? Absolutely - both ways.

But the bottom line is that all 32 teams want to win, and they'll draft whomever they believe will help them do that.

Exactly! Now you're gettin' it! It's what they believe! And they believe that blacks are better. That's why the white (and black) coaches and GM's discriminate against whites. It's what they believe. It's a prejudice. I'm glad you finally understand.

 

[White Shogun]

Its funny, he says personnel directors were foaming at the mouth to draft Matt Jones? How many media pundits have said that Jones was drafted to high in the first place? How many have said he has 'potential bust' written all over his 6'6 frame?

From what I've read, most in the media and sports writers in general still think Jones is a work in progress, and only time will tell if the selection pays off for the Jags.

 

[Guest]

WhiteRb writes:
Its really surprising that you were able to win a football game on Madden '06 with an all-white team. The developers control the abilities of the players and assign the values they think are the most appropriate, which are not necessarily a reflection of reality. See the thread in the Media section of this site for more information.

Secondly, I'm glad that your African-American friend is proud to be so. I have never met a black person who isn't extremely proud of being black. Out of curiosity, are you allowed the same freedom, to be proud of being white?

And how did the two of you approach this game, white vs black? Was there some debate between you about who is better? I'm interested in how you got this game going in the first place.

I'll answer you questions in order. Firstly, my school is a very academic focused (1AA), so we have alot of all kind of races here that really can be lumped into the general student body as a bunch of endrogenous people with no culture other than an accademic one. I have met hundreds of blacks, whites, latinos asians etc that don't really give a second thought to their race unless asked to. DJ is an exception; he is a very smart character (pre-law) that is very proud of his heritage. I am German-American and am very proud of mine. Race is not an issue between us, which is why this game was exceptionly hillarious.


DJ and I have a common bond due to the stereotypes due to our positions. I am a whitehalfback, and he is a black pocket passer. He is seriously slow; slower thantreacle. Really slow treacle.He was great in high school, but all the scouts expected him to run around like Mike Vick, instead he barely moved from the pocket, so he didn't get much attention. I have played half back my whole life, and whilst my high school teamlost at the state championships, only a few of our defence players got offered D1 scholarships. However, I know I'm not D1 calabre, never have been, hell I'm like 3rd string here at best. I'm here for the free education.


The game was hillarious. We are around even in Madden skills, so he expected to thrash me. I was allowed to alter some players(fox to CB), aswell as create some other players that arn't on the Madden roster(lumsden et al). We always play strange games so a white vs blackseries wasn't out of the ordinary. (A couple of weeks ago we and some other guys played like an allumini state series, Ohio schoolsv Florida schoolsv California schoolsv Texas schools.I won with California)


I actually showed him this site, which he read alot of points. He thinks you are right about alot of negative stereotyping in football, be it against white RBs and CBs, or black pocket passers like himself. However he is quick to point out that it is not overt, it is 100% in peoples preconceptions and mental sterotypes. Scouts probably don't give white RB's a chance because they have seen alot of white RB's too slow for college ball, so they put that stereotype on all white RB's. People don't plot against white players, they just make negative assumptions based on experience. I


We both want to see a team with a white corner and running backs, a black pocket passers aswell as kickers and punters aswell as a whole bunch of asian lineman and samoan WR's. Time will tell right?

 

[Kaptain]

Negative assumptions based on experience? I would think scouts also have seen plenty of slow black running backs as well but haven't made those negative same negative assumptions. It almost sounds like you agree with the current caste sytem. What is your point of view? Are whites inferior in the skill positions?

 

[White Shogun]

Thanks for taking the time to explain your friendship. Sounds like a good one, no sarcasm intended.

However he is quick to point out that it is not overt, it is 100% in peoples preconceptions and mental sterotypes.

I agree with this to some extent. It is these preconceptions and mental stereotypes though, that keep the current caste system in place, the same way it prevented blacks from playing QB in another day and age.

I think it is no small part caused by the media treatment of whites in general. It is a stereotype that has become ingrained in the American, and the white, psyche itself.

Perhaps some would say there is truth in stereotypes. If thats so, then I guess we'd have to say the same about black IQ, black crime rates, etc. What do you think?

I hope my posts are coming across as I intend them to be, which is not combative at all and genuinely engaged in the discussion.

 

[white lightning]

It is so bad these days that it doesn't matter if a white wins the NFL's Fastest Man Contest.For his whole career,that white athlete would still be labeled slow,smart,over acheiver,possesion receiver,etc.The bias is so bad that almost nothing seems able to change peoples perceptions and stereotypes.People just believe because they are too stupid to investigate and find the facts.I see it getting worse.We have to fight this because if not,all the leagues will have a total white out and they why would we even bother to watch sports anymore.

 

[JoeV]

Do you think we will ever see a reversing of a Jackie Robinson? ie Whites breaking off and forming our own leagues?

 

[Don Wassall]

No, not unless thelegal, social and politicalanti-white racial climate changes dramatically, and if that somehow happens then there wouldn't be a need for such a league. Right now, a "whites only" pro football league would have no more chance of success than would a pro-white television network of challenging CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc. It would get no funding, no advertising, and would be repeatedly sued until whatever meagerfinancial resources it had were gone. Plus no one wouldplay for itother than some of the posters here.

 

[Guest]

. It almost sounds like you agree with the current caste sytem. What is your point of view? Are whites inferior in the skill positions?

Firstly, If you read all my post you would know I play half back and am white. I have never believed black players were more skilled than me, unless it was actually true. I accept I'm not the best half back tostrap on the pads, however you won't hear of someone telling me I shouldn't play half back because I'm white, because I usually respond with how I play on game day.


I judge players on their merrits. I don't agree 100% with everything said here, however I belive theiris alotof negative racial stereotyping in football that need to be combatted. I don't believe there is an overtconspiracy against white players, however a hell of alot of whiteplayers get bad deals becasue of bad stereotypes that desperatly need to be broken.


I honestly believe the best people to do this are black college coaches - and before anyone jumps up and down, heres why - they, unlike players these days grew up in a world where they were persecuted on the basis of race, and they know how bad stereotyping is. The 2 black coaches i've worked under have both been terrific at identifying talent ON ITS MERITS. If a white guy is the best guy to play corner back, they wont hesitate to puthim on the field. If a black guy is the best kicker, they will be lining up for field goals. (I've never seen that happen though, but never say never.) This may be annecdotal evidence, and may not be true for the system as a whole, but it is my opinion.Edited by: WhiteRB

 

[Guest]

Perhaps some would say there is truth in stereotypes. If thats so, then I guess we'd have to say the same about black IQ, black crime rates, etc. What do you think?

I hope my posts are coming across as I intend them to be, which is not combative at all and genuinely engaged in the discussion.

You can look at statistics and draw all types of conclusions, and yes, most stereotyping is based on elements of truth. However it is not useful, from whatever side of the fence you sit to make assumptions about an individual or even about a race in general, it benefits nobody. I think something that some people here need to realise that saying that an african american is dumb andviolent is equally as hurtful and stupid as saying a white guy is too slow and doesn't have the athleticism to make it, base your statements on theindividuals involved, and it may be true, it may be not.


A white halfback MIGHT be too slow and not agile enough to make it. However anyone thatassumes this before seeing the guy play is a f**king moron; he could have blazing speed and barry sandersesque moves.On the other hand assuming that black defencive tackle is a violent dope smokingmoron is equally stupid. They may have been valedictorian or in the peace corp or whatever.


I don't care if a negative assumption is true half the time, or 90% of the time, because when you apply it to a person, and especialy to a persons future you are part of the problem.


I appreciate your willingness to discuss these matters in an open and honest way. I don't expect to change ANYONES opinion, wether they be white supremicists orblack panthers, but the least we can do is try. People need to hear about negative stereotyping in sports, and people here do a great job of identifying and supporting up and coming white athletes. But if anyone has their mind closed and is not open to change their views, then they are part of the problem.


Sorry about being so long winded guys.

 

[Gary]

To be honest I have doubts about WhiteRB??