How it started in the SEC

[Bronk]

Very good thread here, Reb.

The USC fullback who did a number on Bama was Sam "Bam" Cunningham who would later have a nice career with the NE Patriots. But the very next year the Tide would go to LA and beat USC with a whole passel of white boys running out of the new Wishbone offense Bryant got from Darrell Royal at Texas.

Actually, Bryant invited several black players to try out for the Tide around 1967 or 68 but none of them made the squad.

Lester McClain played for the Vols in 1968, 69 and 70. tall, lanky receiver.

I really remember Condredge Holloway. My brother and I used to marvel at him while watching him go on TV.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Yep Bronk, after Bama beat USC in 71, Bryant called Darrell up to thank him for helping him put it in. The Bama running back who did so well in 1971 was Johnny Musso, the last featured white back that Alabama had. Musso also had over 1,000 yards in 1970.

 

[whiteCB]

Yeah I'm not surprised because Ward never said he never played that much but it was probably becasue he had the wrong skin color for Bear at HB.

 

[Don Wassall]

I was surprised by the '04 team picture to see that Alabama'steamis half white. Alabama only starts four whites out of 22, 3 o-linemen and the QB.


To do a little rough math, out of the approximately 50 black players on the team, 36% are starters. Out of the approximately 50 white players on the team, just 8% are starters. Quarterback and the offensive line are the only positions a white kid has an outside chance of starting at, which makes me wonder why a white kid who doesn't play one of those two positions even bothers to make all the sacrifice a football program requires when he has zero chance of playing.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

That's a good point Don, and one I have wondered about many times. Here's the 2002 picture, which is even more black. Looks like 38 whites and 61 blacks.

Also I think this years Bama team is blacker than the 2004 team.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I just found the 2005 pic of Bama's team. It is blacker than last years, with 45 whites and 56 blacks. No wonder the number of whites starting went down even more, from 7 to 4!

Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[emt1]

Geez seems like Alabama is turning into another Grambling

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Slowly but surely, emt1. Welcome to Caste Football!

 

[foreverfree]

The question about the 2 players was to everyone. The answer is, #11 on the 1983 team is Mike Shula, Bama's current head coach,

Which #11, Colonel? I see two #11's in the 1983 photo.

John

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Considering Mike Shula has brown hair, it shouldn't be hard to figure out that he's the one on the left. Have you never seen Mike Shula on the sidelines at a Bama game?

 

[foreverfree]

Considering Mike Shula has brown hair, it shouldn't be hard to figure out that he's the one on the left. Have you never seen Mike Shula on the sidelines at a Bama game?

I don't follow college football as much as I do pro. And it was this way even before I became enlightened as to the caste system. Guess that's part of the price of a)growing up in the Philadelphia area, not exactly a hotbed of modern day college football religion, at least in our family, and b) attending Division II Kutztown University (although I attended almost every Kutztown home football game, and even a couple of road games, while enrolled there, and a couple of games since graduation).

As for my familiarity with SEC territory, I've been no closer to the states of AL or MS (or to Athens) than Hartsfield-Atlanta International Airport (during a change of planes 31 years ago). And I've been no closer to Knoxville or Nashville than Kodak, TN (I saw minor league baseball in Kodak).

Sorry 'bout that.

John

 

[Colonel_Reb]

No problem, foreverfree. I just thought you might have seen him on tv. He was their QB from 83 to 85, I believe.Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Hmm, Bama has taken all pics from 2005 on and copyrighted them, like Louisiana Tech. What a shame to have to purchase a team picture.

 

[Deus Vult]

LSU had a black backup QB in the mid 1970s, named Carl Otis Trimble. His career was cut short when, on a tubing trip, the athlete lost his tube and drowned.

The next black to play QB at LSU was during the Gerry DiNardo era. Freshman Herb Tyler came on at the end of the year 1996, and started through the 1999 season. Tyler's style necessitated a change in the LSU offense. LSU had always played a pro-style offense, which is probably a contributing factor in that squad having white QBs when other SEC teams experimented with black QBs.

Since Herb Tyler, LSU has had (blacks) Rohan Davey, Marcus Randall and JaMarcus Russell as starters, with whites Josh Booty, Craig Nall, Matt Mauck and Matt Flynn also starting in stretches.Edited by: Deus Vult

 

[Colonel_Reb]

How well I remember Tyler coming in. He replaced Jamie Howard when I was an LSU fan. I still think John Hawthorne is the best radio voice in college football.

 

[Sean Carlisle]

Jim Hawthorne is great Reb. In ref to the above post about Carl Otis Trimble, I recall when Herb Tyler got off on a long run and in the excitement Hawthorne made a rare reference to Trimble as follows: LSU has not had a running quarterback like this since Carl Otis Trimble in the early 1970s. He did overlooked David Woodley who was a white QB with great running ability who split time with Steve Ensminger in the late 70s.

I had a book that stated LSU's first negro player was Mike Williams 1972-1974. He was an All American safety in 74. Terry Robiski came not much later and played running back and there was a stink when he asked out the girlfriend of white running back, Brad Davis. Davis at the time became the LSU all time leading rusher. Could you imagine a one of the first white kid coming to a black school and hitting on the hnic's old lady ?

An old timer one time referred to Bear's love of the negro athlete in saying, "Bear went hog wild when he started recruiting negroes."

I've heard old timers say Billy Cannon (57-59) could compete with today's teams. His high school sprinting records in Louisiana stood for decades. He was 6'0" 210. His biggest lineman outweighed him by only a mere 10 pounds. His time in the 100 yard dash (not meters) was under 10 sec. I need to get his exact time on that. I've have heard that it is comparable to todays studs. They did not run the 40 back then.Edited by: Sean Carlisle

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Sean Carlisle, Ben Williams was Ole Miss' first black player, playing from 1972-1975. I decided to do some resarch on this to see what really happened, and it appears because of an injury, this RB Hinton, who signed with LSU in 1971, didn't play for the first two years he was at LSU, of course he couldn't have played varsity ball until 1972 anyway because they had Freshmen teams through 1971. 1972 was the first year for freshmen eligilibility for varsity play. So it appears LSU did not have a black on the field until the 1973 season.

I found this on bestofneworleans.com.
"Lora Hinton was LSU's first African-American player, joining the team in 1971."

Then this on the LSU school paper website.
"Lora Hinton, a running back, was the first African-American football player, said Athletic Department Director Michael Bonnette. Hinton, originally from Chesapeake, Va., played from 1973 to 1975."

Then this on the LSU library's special collections website. Its a summary of an interview done with Hinton.
"Hinton injures knee and doesn't play until his third year on the team."

 

[Sean Carlisle]

Reb you've done it again. The info I had must have been wrong or maybe the book was saying Williams was the first black to actually play on the field for the Tigers. I never heard of Hinton. Thanks for the info.

 

[redeye]

Some truth but also some inaccuracies here. Kentucky, I believe was the first SEC team to integrate its SEC football program and did so around 1966. Tennessee did so shortly thereafter. Auburn integrated around 1969. Alabama was one of the last teams to integrate, in 1971, but the actual last teams were LSU and Ole Miss around 1972.

The story of Bryant bringing in USC tailback Sam Cunningham into the Alabama lockerroom after the 1970 game in Legion Field is actually a myth sensationalized by the media. Several Alabama players say it never happened. Supposedly, hollywood is making a movie about Sam Cunningham and it will be interesting to see how the myth is portrayed.

Bryant did integrate the football team steadily in the 1970s, as did other SEC football teams. It certaintly did not integrate the fastest, with that distinction going to the University of Florida under Doug Dickey, a former UT head coach. Florida under Dickey was about 50% black by 1974-1975 and Alabama was greatly under that percentage.

The 1979 Championship team of Alabama was mostly white starters. Three of the starting players in the offensive backfield were white (Stedman Shealy, Major Ogilvie, Steve Whitman) and the team had one starting wide reciever who was also white (Keith Pugh). Major Ogilvie was the prominent halfback for Alabama that year, though he didn't get many carries because Bryant played so many players at that position in the wishbone.

Alabama started its first black quarterback in 1981, in Walter Lewis. Interestingly, an article came out in the Atlanta Constitution around that same time accusing Bryant of racism and treating white players better than blacks.

Alabama had one of the last featured white running backs in 1984 with Paul Ott Carruth from Mississippi who later played with the Packers. Carruth was recruited by Bryant.

Alabama and Bryant played a part in the caste system as did most other SEC teams. But, I think it is inaccurate to say Bryant was the primary factor. Bryant last coached in the Liberty Bowl in 1982.


Beginning around 1984 to 1985 it became a race to the bottom in the SEC for most all football teams in caste football. Alabama has had three other black starting quarterbacks since 1983. Vince Sutton briefly stared a few games around 1984, another started a few games before getting in trouble with drugs and Jay Barker replaced him. Later Andrew Zow started for several seasons in the late 90s.

 

[sport historian]

Mike Williams was the first black player to appear on the field for LSU as a DB in 1972. As I have posted previously, Tennesse was the first to have a black starter, WR Lester McClain from 1968-70. He had played his entire career before Bryant had any black players, which was in 1971.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Redeye, you are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are underestimating the influence that Bryant's decision had on SEC football. sport historian, please provide some source for your claim, as I want to know for sure. I provided 3 quotes for Hinton being the first black to play at LSU and nobody has provided any for Williams. Vandy integrated in 1966 or 67 as well. I never intended to say that Bryant started SEC integration, but he ensured its rapid growth. I neve said Bama had a majority black team in 1979 either. Man, you only have to be gone a few days around here before everything comes unglued.