Helen Thomas quits

[Bart]

If we are to claim that the Palestinians have a claim to the land what about all of the indigenous tribes that were here before Europeans arrived? Historical military conquest trumps all claims in my opinion. I'm sure though that someone will point out the error of my way of thinking.

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... While american natives might continue to self segregate or suffer due to the welfare state they live under, they are still free to go anywhere in the country and live as they chose. They are legal equals with the "conquerers" which is all that can really be asked.

Compare that to the Palestinians in Israel. Forcibly segregated, denied basic freedoms and basically living in a concentration camp. How does that compare to the Indians?

Not to mention the government giving Indians the authority to print money. Well, not really, but Indian Casino rights are very sweet indeed. One of my in-laws claims a percentage of Indian blood and his tribe regularly sends him checks from their profits. He's never divulged how much. Edited by: Bart

 

[Solomon Kane]

I like the fact that she wants them to go back to Europe--as it brings out the fact that most of the"Jews" of Israel are really Ashkenazim--Khazars--not genuine descendants of Abraham. Isaac, and Jacob. (Not that Judaic dominion over Palestine would be justified if the rulers were real Jews. Since they broke repeatedly their covenant with God--especially when they crucified Christ--their dominion overPalestine was taken from them; hence God sent the Roman legions to destroy Jerusalem).

 

[Menelik]

If we are to claim that the Palestinians have a claim to the land what about all of the indigenous tribes that were here before Europeans arrived? Historical military conquest trumps all claims in my opinion. I'm sure though that someone will point out the error of my way of thinking.

The ruling government of an area IS decided by conquest. However note that every single native American tribe is still in the america's and they are not required to live in a certain area and prohibited to enjoy any of the other freedoms of the local population. While american natives might continue to self segregate or suffer due to the welfare state they live under, they are still free to go anywhere in the country and live as they chose. They are legal equals with the "conquerers" which is all that can really be asked.

Compare that to the Palestinians in Israel. Forcibly segregated, denied basic freedoms and basically living in a concentration camp. How does that compare to the Indians?

Point well taken. HOWEVER my comparison had nothing to do with how Native Americans are treated vs how the Arabs are, just how both have been disposed of their lands.

 

[Westside]

Arabs got a raw deal? WTF, have you looked at a map of the area and the population of Israel vs the surrounding Arab countries. Listen all this talk of the Bible giving Jews the "right" to the land is best left at Sunday services.

The world is ruled by force, wealth and intelligence. The Arab countries are seriously lacking in intelligence. This is the one area that fuses force and wealth to smash any foe, especially foreign. Thus, the world has this problem with the Arabs vs Israel since 1948. If the Arabs had the requisite "smarts" they would have smashed Israel like a bug decades ago and claim it as another Arab country by might.

The reason Israel has been able to hold off the Muslim hordes is becuase like it or not, they(Jews) possess alot of intelligence. What else can explain their superiority in weapons and tactics on all fronts to hold the Muslims at bay, even with US assisting in financing it. You still have to have to smarts to properly weld it.

This current situation with Israel "having" the Golan Heights and West Bank as areas for Arabs is nonsense. Cleanse both areas of Arabs not wanting to go with program claim it is as Israel by force. Then let the chips fall where they fall. Force, Wealth and Smarts is what makes the world turn, fairly or not. Everyone knows where they stand during these times instead of lengend or lore.

If you want to spend sleepless nights or time on CF arguing about the rights of Israel or Arabs rights to it go ahead. But, may I suggest focusing on the real threat. China! There, those people have the might, wealth and intelligence to give anyone especially right now sleepless nights, espically the US. The sooner this current Adminstration is over, or forced to change course on all fronts foreign and domestic the better for our survival.

 

[Westside]

Regarding Helen Thomas, she will now ajourn to her home and probably be dead in a couple of months. She will become a running joke/person non grata to the left and right.

She will die with a top five "ugliest mug in America". Funny, she called W the worst president ever. Well one of W's boys sure helped in burying her professionally. Thanks Ari!

 

[Europe]

"For fear of the Jews." What did she say wrong? Jews should get out of Palestine? Well, shouldn't they? The settlements are illegal.

She should lose her job because she apologized.

Why should she have to apologize for her comments? It's sad that someone has to resign just because they don't agree with the "rulers".
This society is a totalitarian society in some ways. She's 89. Why didn't she say shove it,I am not apologizing, if you want to fire me then fire me. She groveled and still is gone. I am no expert on the situation,but I would respect her more if she didn't back down, especially since she's had her career. It's not like she's 35 and wants to keep working for 30 years.

 

[Westside]

Europe your abosuletly correct. When will people understand that groveling accomplishes nothing. She should have said "yes, its my opinion, and if my employor has a problem with it, they can fire me. Also, if Barack has a problem, then he can bar me from the W.H. Press room, whats the problem".

Ms Thomas will now have to accept going out on a whimper rather than a shield. As you state she is 90 years old, not 35 years. She could have championed free speech rather than cower to the TPB cabal.

 

[Charles Martel]

Arabs got a raw deal? WTF, have you looked at a map of the area and the population of Israel vs the surrounding Arab countries.

Israel received the best land, and most of the fresh water in the area. The richest land with moderate precipitation was the original northern half of Israel, the area adjacent to the Mediterranean which was designated for Jews in 1948. The West Bank isn't the best quality land, but it isn't real desert like Jordan. Southern Israel is very dry too, but they wanted a port on the Red Sea.

Gaza is near-desert and the Sinai is real desert. The only other good land in the area is near the Nile and in Lebanon.

Check a detailed atlas and you'll see they left little except desert for the Arabs.
Edited by: Parody

 

[Kaptain]

"For fear of the Jews." What did she say wrong? Jews should get out of Palestine? Well, shouldn't they? The settlements are illegal. She should lose her job because she apologized.

   Illegal??  Says who?  The UN?  Love them or hate them, the Jews have the earliest claims on the Holy Land.  If the Canaanites, Hittites, Phoenicians, et al, want to claim the land, since they preceded the Israelites, they can go right ahead, but they are all gone.  The Arabs took the land by force, and according to you, Kaptain Poop, that is also "illegal".

Yes, the UN resolution which the U.S. signed onto - so we as country say it is illegal. You can hold allegiance to your country Israel and your religion - Jewish Zionism and your race - Esau Edomite Jew and I'll hold allegiance to my country, my race (white), and my religion (Christian).

I think you need to study the Bible and History if you are going to go by some ancient religious documents. Quite clearly the New Testament was not fond of "Loudaios" (Jews). The promised land was given to Israelites not just anybody that happened to live in the area of Judea (Jews). In addition a New Covenant was made that replaced the Old that promised the kingdom of God to those who accept the salvation of Jesus. That is quite clear.

For most of Christian history Christian scholars believed that white Christians were the lost tribe of Israel. What did you think the Crusades were about anyway? Christians fighting to secure land for Jews? Paaalease. It was a Holy War for Christians to secure their Holy Land - not Jews.

Somewhere along the way our Bible through translation was high-jacked and some key words were changed to confuse matters. Go back and study and tell me exactly where in the Bible land was promised to those non-believers of Christ who happen to live in the area of Judea. Then come back and tell me where it promises land to Ashkenazi Jews. You've got some learnin to do.

 

[Westside]

Parody I think you missed my point

Force + Wealth(oil) + Intelligence = Problem Solver!!!!

All of those Arabs / Muslims should have smashed the Star of David like a bug decades ago. They lack overall "smarts" This notion of give/render on to thee, can be taken by Intelligent Force financed by wealth. Its not rocket science or even college algebra!

 

[Kaptain]

Parody I think you missed my point

Force + Wealth(oil) + Intelligence = Problem Solver!!!!

All of those Arabs / Muslims should have smashed the Star of David like a bug decades ago. They lack overall "smarts" This notion of give/render on to thee, can be taken by Intelligent Force financed by wealth. Its not rocket science or even college algebra!

So then by that thinking, Muslims are smarter than Europeans because the Muslims won the Crusades. Or could it be that Israel has survived because of our support? If Jews were so darn intelligent, then why didn't they use their superior brains to build their own country themselves? It took 2,000 years for Jews to have a country of their own. Such an intelligent people - what gives? I hate to point out the obvious.

 

[Westside]

KP by my logic it the spoils on to the victor. And pure F'ing gravy if one(group of people) can maintain their dominance or hold on the land. In the case of the Crusades it was short lived and possibly a "fluke" in the grand scheme of things.

Also, as I mentioned in my previous post(s) I concede our support in wealth and arms to Israel. And again, right now they are our ally, however you want to think of them.

KP, I think you also missed my point. Its not that Jews are so much smarter than the Arabs, its that the Arabs are soooo intellectually handicapped, that the Jews run circles around them. Will you concede me this? Or is another drawn out thread that started out about a washed up old hag, going to turn into a long debate about the hate of Israel.

 

[Kaptain]

Well, Israel is a lot less shorter lived than the hundreds of years of muslim rule. Are Jews smarter than Arabs? I don't know and I don't care. I don't worship Jews. I see a lot of unintellent-looking Jews in Israel where average IQ is at least 10 points lower than the average white persons. Again, Jews "run circles" around muslims because we blindly support them. If we are deciding the victor then why don't we just decide that the victor is the breed that built America - the white Western European peoples of the Earth? If you want me to root for someone, I'll root for myself and my people. We'll take Israel. We are stronger and smarter. Screw the Jews and the muslims. Let the strong take all they want and put the weak in gas chambers.

Aslo, I'm tired of hearing about how Israel is our ally. Says you. However you would like to think of them, they are only a huge NEGATIVE for us. They have NEVER done anything for us.

Edited by: Kaptain Poop

 

[Westside]

Ok


I only calls it as I sees it. I have made my point(s) and now will move on.

 

[jaxvid]

Ok


I only calls it as I sees it. I have made my point(s) and now will move on.

Your point was off the mark. Israel's military success is wholly due to US support in equipment, training, and billions of dollars. If that had been given to the Arabs instead there would be no Israel. It's got nothing to do with how "smart" they are unless you consider "smart" worming their way into positions of power in another country (USA) and using that power to further the goals of the home country. Edited by: jaxvid

 

[Charles Martel]

Parody I think you missed my point

Force + Wealth(oil) + Intelligence = Problem Solver!!!!

All of those Arabs / Muslims should have smashed the Star of David like a bug decades ago. They lack overall "smarts" This notion of give/render on to thee, can be taken by Intelligent Force financed by wealth. Its not rocket science or even college algebra!

If all the Arab countries fought Israel, it would have been outnumbered. But Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen and Kuwait did not join in.

In 1967, it was just impoverished Jordan which has a small population, Syria which didn't have a big population or military, and Egypt, which had a large population of illiterate Africans. Iraq joined in on the last day, but too late to make any difference.

In that war, Israel launched a surprise attack and destroyed the Egyptian air force on the ground.

In 1973, it was really just Egypt and Syria against Israel. Jordan was heavily compensated for the land it lost in 1967 by the USA and it's king actually warned Israel that Eqypt was planning an attack to take back the Sinai.

In that war, Egypt and Syria were doing very well for awhile. There were reports that the American air force joined in to help the Israelis. Henry Kissinger (a Jew who was never elected) was in charge of the US foreign policy at that time, with Nixon being a "lame duck" president. Thanks to Kissinger, we came close to WW III as the Soviets told the US to back off.

 

[FootballDad]

Let the strong take all they want and put the weak in gas chambers.

Wow!

 

[jaxvid]

Let the strong take all they want and put the weak in gas chambers.

<div></div>Wow!

Please. Don't feign shock just because it's a type of comment that jews hate. What about "stinking Arab hordes" living in "cesspools". And your insistence on might makes right? That's the same thing!

 

[FootballDad]

Let the strong take all they want and put the weak in gas chambers.

Wow!

Please. Don't feign shock just because it's a type of comment that jews hate. What about "stinking Arab hordes" living in "cesspools". And your insistence on might makes right? That's the same thing!

Jews? "Put the weak in gas chambers" should offend anyone. Although the modern anecdote would be toward the majority historical perspective in regards to Nazi Germany, to me this is a cry for eugenics in general, which should be repulsive to any human being.

 

[FootballDad]

Somewhere along the way our Bible through translation was high-jacked and some key words were changed to confuse matters.

Although athread about the venerable Helen Thomas is probably not the best forum for this, I thought I would anwer a few or your comments here. Perhaps you need to take a look at the source of your Scriptures. Modern Bibles are translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. The volume of copies of source material, when cross-referenced is 99.5% accurate, with most differences being a misspelling or something along the lines of one copy saying "Jesus" while the next says "Jesus Christ". So to use the old saw that the Scriptures have been corrupted does not hold up under examination.

In addition a New Covenant was made that replaced the Old that promised the kingdom of God to those who accept the salvation of Jesus. That is quite clear.

Indeed. Christians and the Church under the New Covenant are chosen for salvation, by accepting the sacrifice of Christ for our sins. The Jews, being God's chosen people (not to be confused with chosen for salvation) were the "delivery persons" for the vehicle of salvation, Jesus. A cursory overview of the Old Testament makes it clear that the Jews would reject the Messiah, and they did (although Christ chose to die for our sins).

The promises to Abraham are still valid, if you are arguing from a Biblical perspective. Those who would have you believe that God's promises to Israel have been transferred to the Church have some explaining to do. These promises are rooted in historical context. They were made to real people--people who believed them. I have a hunch that if God had told Abram, "I'm making these promises to you and your descendants, but someday I might change my mind and make 'em apply to other people I like better," Abe may not have exercised quite the same degree of faith when told to offer up his promised son, Isaac, as a sacrifice.
Besides, it was Abram who met the conditions the promises had been predicated upon in the first place, not some nebulous future religious entity. How could the blessing be transferred to someone who had not met--someone who had not even been asked to meet--these conditions?
Now, all of that said, the granting of modern-day Israel is merely a fulfillment of prophecy as stated in thePsalms, Ezekiel,Daniel, etc. Unlike what f3dor and others have said, there is no scriptural obligation for Christians to support Israel. Sure, we're not to curse them, but it doesn't say that we need to go to war for them or toss endless Billion$ at them. So don't label me as a "Zionist Christian", that is absurd.

 

[Van_Slyke_CF]

FootballDad: I'm not taking sides in this discussion, but I would like to say I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts on CF, including the ones on this thread.

 

[Menelik]

FootballDad: I'm not taking sides in this discussion, but I would like to say I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts on CF, including the ones on this thread.

Likewise. Lot of talk about Jews lately though.

 

[Observer]

FootballDad, you show yourself quite reasonable with respect to support of Zionism. But your math is bad. There are many, many descendants of Isaac that are NOT Jewish; and many also who claim descent who are related neither by blood nor even historic continuity.

You know this, I think.

Helen Thomas may have a better claim to being a child of Abraham than do many European Jews.

 

[FootballDad]

Thanks for the props. I generally stay out of the "Jew" discussions, as I find them to be highly devisive, and they often have a delatory effect on the comaradie that we enjoy here at CF. But occasionally they can be instructive for all, unlike the posts that we've seen that have degraded into name-calling fests, "Mr. Goldstein" and all.

 

[jaxvid]

]The promises to Abraham are still valid, if you are arguing from a Biblical perspective.  Those who would have you believe that God's promises to Israel have been transferred to the Church have some explaining to do. These promises are rooted in historical context. They were made to real people--people who believed them. I have a hunch that if God had told Abram, "I'm making these promises to you and your descendants, but someday I might change my mind and make 'em apply to other people I like better," Abe may not have exercised quite the same degree of faith when told to offer up his promised son, Isaac, as a sacrifice.
&lt;P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 4.8pt" =MsoTextIndent&gt;Besides, it was Abram who met the conditions the promises had been predicated upon in the first place, not some nebulous future religious entity. How could the blessing be transferred to someone who had not met--someone who had not even been asked to meet--these conditions?
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Let me distill it down here so I can understand. Because Abraham offered up his son as a sacrifice, the jews are the chosen people for all time, each and every schmiel that puts on one of those beanies and reads from the Torah will always no matter how much they hate Jesus and Christians, be considered the chosen people.

AND they will own that same piece of the desert for time immemorial (or at least as long as someone like Great Britian and the US take and secure it for them.)

But the actual Christians that worship God and his only Son will never be the "chosen" people and will have to worship from a book that considers them "goyim" (cattle) and be subject to whatever mistreatment the real chosen ones deem necessary.

Is that how it works?