Hall of Fame 2011

Don Wassall

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Nice of the "Veterans Committee" to finally pick Ron Santo for the Hall of Fame -- a year after he died. He had battled diabetes for a long time, if you're going to honor someone it's a lot better to do it while he's still around to enjoy it.

But that said, I don't think Santo was deserving. He was a very good player, but never received more than 43% of the vote during the 15 years he was eligible for election to Cooperstown. If his contemporaries among journalists clearly thought him unworthy, what makes him worthy all these years later through the fog of time?

I detest the Veterans Committee because its purpose was outlived decades ago. The original idea was to find players (and others such as umpires and executives) who were active in the sport before the Hall of Fame came into existence in the 1930s. The Hall was long ago degraded with the addition of Negro League players and other unworthies; now we get the annual selection of modern players who were rejected by their peers, sometimes soundly. Like seemingly every other committee or bureaucracy in this country, the Veterans Committee now exists in perpetuity, long after whatever usefulness it may have had originally has been served.
 
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Nice of the "Veterans Committee" to finally pick Ron Santo for the Hall of Fame -- a year after he died. He had battled diabetes for a long time, if you're going to honor someone it's a lot better to do it while he's still around to enjoy it.

But that said, I don't think Santo was deserving. He was a very good player, but never received more than 43% of the vote during the 15 years he was eligible for election to Cooperstown. If his contemporaries among journalists clearly thought him unworthy, what makes him worthy all these years later through the fog of time?

I detest the Veterans Committee because its purpose was outlived decades ago. The original idea was to find players (and others such as umpires and executives) who were active in the sport before the Hall of Fame came into existence in the 1930s. The Hall was long ago degraded with the addition of Negro League players and other unworthies; now we get the annual selection of modern players who were rejected by their peers, sometimes soundly. Like seemingly every other committee or bureaucracy in this country, the Veterans Committee now exists in perpetuity, long after whatever usefulness it may have had originally has been served.

Excellent post. Ron Santo was a very good player who fell short of what a hall of famer was supposed to be as originally intended. Santo was an announcer for the Cubs for a long time and ex-players who hang around with that job have a way of ending up in the hall of fame.
 

jaxvid

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You two guys are wrong, as usual (j/k) let Bill James spell out the OTHER point of view on the rectification of this long term miscarriage of justice.

(Bill James)

My point was that Ron Santo was a better player than most of the third basemen in the Hall of Fame, and this is true despite the fact that fewer third basemen have been elected to the Hall of Fame than players at any other position.

As to Santo being a better player than most of the Hall of Fame third basemen, I think that if you study this issue carefully, you will be forced to agree that this is true, or was true before Schmidt and Brett. George Kell in his career drove in 100 runs once, scored 100 runs once; otherwise his career high in RBI was 93. Ron Santo scored 100 runs once, and drove in 93 runs every year, eight straight years. Obviously, Santo was doing a lot more to change the scoreboard than Kell was, even though Santo played in the 1960s, when runs were hard to come by.

Santo was not only a better hitter than Kell, he was also a better hitter than Jimmy Collins, Pie Traynor, Fred Lindstrom, and Brooks Robinson. He was a good hitter in a relatively long career, as he ranks eighth all-time in games played at third base. Defense? He won five Gold Gloves. I will agree that Santo was not a brilliant defensive third baseman. Had Brooks Robinson or Clete Boyer been in the National League, Santo's Gold Gloves would have been few and far between. Santo was a sure-handed third baseman with an excellent arm; he was not quick on his feet. I might even agree that Kell was probably a better fielder than Santo was — but Santo was a fine defensive third baseman. Kell, if he was better, could not have been enough better to offset the facts that Santo created more runs per year, that he did it for more years, and that he did it in a time when each run was more valuable.

By my reckoning, George Kell was the 30th best third baseman of all time; he is in the Hall of Fame. Fred Lindstrom was the 43rd best third baseman of all time; he is in the Hall of Fame. At several other positions, players have been selected who were not among the top 50. After the Hall of Fame has already honored the 30th-best and 43rd-best players at the position, does it degrade the Hall of Fame to then include the sixth-best? Does it not, in fact, enhance the integrity of the honor, to show that the institution is capable of some minimal consistency in its selections?

We could all agree, could we not, that the Hall of Fame is simply not going to stop selecting people? It's not going to happen; neither the Veteran's Committee nor the Hall of Fame as a whole is going to stop making selections. What I am saying is, it's not Ron Santo against Willie Mays. It is Ron Santo against Pete Browning, or Babe Herman, or Bob Meusel, or Jake Daubert, or somebody else whose only real advantage on Ron Santo is that he played so long ago that his flaws have been forgotten.

The reality is, Wille Mays never was and never can be the standard of the Hall of Fame. In the 1940s, many players were selected to the Hall of Fame who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo, let alone nowhere near as good as Willie Mays. Players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1950s, players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1960s, players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1970s (lots of them), players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1980s, and players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1990s.

It is preposterous to argue that the Hall of Fame standard is Ted Williams, after six decades of honoring players like Tommy McCarthy (1946), Rabbit Maranville (1954), Elmer Flick (1963), Dave Bancroft (1971), George Kell (1983), and Tony Lazzeri (1991). The Ted Williams/Bob Gibson/Honus Wagner standard for Hall of Fame selection has never existed anywhere except in the imaginations of people who don't know anything about the subject.
Look, certain things just do not happen. Rivers do not run uphill, iron does not become gold, time does not go backward, whores do not become virgins, pigs do not give birth to lions, supermodels do not marry auto mechanics, and politicians do not forget about the next election. There is no alchemy by which the Hall of Fame may become what it never has been. Ron Santo towers far above the real standard of the Hall of Fame.
 

DixieDestroyer

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I tell ya'll who should be in Cooperstown...ol' Dale Murphy. The multiple time MVP & Gold Glover was a class act off the field too.
 

white is right

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Excellent post. Ron Santo was a very good player who fell short of what a hall of famer was supposed to be as originally intended. Santo was an announcer for the Cubs for a long time and ex-players who hang around with that job have a way of ending up in the hall of fame.
Yes Scooter was the Yankee version of Santo. He too made the hall many years after his eligibility had lost any ballot push. It's strange to me that while 3rd base, 2nd base and short stop and to a lesser extent catcher and center fielders are rewarded for defense the other outfield positions and first base the voters ignore defensive skills. If all things were equal Dewey Evans or Keith Hernandez would have gotten stronger consideration because of their defense.
 
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I tell ya'll who should be in Cooperstown...ol' Dale Murphy. The multiple time MVP & Gold Glover was a class act off the field too.
absolutely agree on Murphy. He's gotten a raw deal because his numbers don't look as great compared to the roid cheaters in the modern HR era. But he absolutely dominated the game while he was playing, and he played for a crappy team.
 
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