Goons! both black and white

Realgeorge

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Thanksto CasteFootball.US for posting the article about Future-Hall-of-FamerPeter Worrell, my favourite Goon


Ol' Peter Worrell, that suave Swede! is a prototype destroyer. Minimal hockey skills but big as a Nose Tackle, mean-nasty, surly and sullen, a member of the protected political class. Peter delivered aKyle McLaren-type Cheapo some years ago that would have landed any white player with a huge suspension, probably ruining his career. During a Captials-Panthers game, Worell crossed the ice at full tilt to blindside a fellow named Jan Bulis into the boards, many seconds after Bulis had passed a puck. Bulis was carried off unconscious, and missed months with concussion injuries. He played again the next year, but ineffectively, and was traded to Montreal. Thankfully Bulis recovered his form after another year,and enjoyed a decent playoff year 2004 with the Habs. But ol' Pete Worrell got nuthin' for the cheapo.


It was a violent, intent-to-injure shot that would have landed any of his teammates with a multi-game suspension. Darius Kasparitis was suspended a number of times in recent years for similar cheap hits on non-puck carrying opponents. [Bruin] Kyle McLaren's elbow to Montrealer Richard Zednick'schopsthe following year was similar to Worrell's hit. But since it was on ESPN and during the playoffs, McLaren was punished severely. McLaren eventually calmed down, was traded to San Jose,and prospered nicely as a stay-at-home defenseman for Ron Wilson and the Sharks .... Damn! they should have won the Cup last year. A couple of questionable referee calls in favor of Calgary!


Interesting ... Marty McSorley's famous konk-slash to Donald Brashear some years ago. Methinks that if Marty had performed the slash to a fellow Caucasoid, that his suspension and animus would have been less than it was.Alas, Marty wears the title of NHL All-time Goon. Brashear is a classic Goon in his own right, but more of a hockey player than Worrell, fits in well with the Flyers and doesn't complain a lot.


Pete the Swede is largely unique in the NHL, as an angry, chip-on-shoulder non-white Goon. Thankfully the only one I can think of. Most of the other black players are pretty good, even Anson Carter, who could shed the Dredlocks and be noticed more for his sharp offensive rushes, excellen wrist shot, and decent defensive skills.


OH! and we remember Chris Simon during Caps' days, engaging in a one-on-one fist fight with a black player. Chris muttered an "N" word during the fight. Simon, part or mostly an American Indian, drew all sorts of punishment from the NHL office for this frightful crime! Better watch what you say while fighting in the NHL. You can knock the other guys' teeth out and snap his ACL and break his neck, but by golly don't call him any names. Simon eventually cut off his waist-length hair, healed up his mangled shoulder ligaments, and became a fine checking forward with the NY Hockey Rangers. You can't keep a good man down
 
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I've seen McSorley's slash on Brashear at least a hundred times and it seems clear to me that McSorley is going for Brashear's shoulder or upper arm area, but missed up high. That's no excuse but it wasn't as vicious as it was unanimously portrayed as by the media. The racial aspect sealed McSorley's fate.
 

Realgeorge

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Howdy Right Winger! Sooo good to hear from you! We hockey fans are few and far between, especially Politically Incorrect ones. I agree with your analysis of Marty's Big Poke.


Wouldn't it be great if ... You were Right Winger, I were Left Winger, Gretzky were the Centerman, and we were lacing up the skates in MSG to face off with the Detroit Red Wings! .... well that's a topic for "Replacement Players"


Hey Nationalist Hockey Fans ... haven't you got anymore good Goon stories? Goons are good for business, unless they scratch one of the superstars who fill the seats. Go Goons! There's always a place for them, in every sport.
 

jaxvid

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Realgeorge...good stuff!

I've always liked some physical play in hockey. When you are at a game there is nothing like a fight to get the crowd and team fired up. Sometimes it is excessive but most hockey fights are little more then scrums. In Detroit we were lucky enough to have two of the best fighters in recent times, Joey Kocur (now assistant coach) and Bob Probert.

I think the trend towards more brutal incidents are due to two recent changes: 1. more restrictions on fighting just lets anger build up as players are unable to properly retaliate for cheap shots. 2. better equipment, especially face masks. Lets players get away with more. For example in college hockey full face masks are mandatory and fighting is prohibited, so the players often get the sticks up and whack each other on the head, a habit they carry on the pros.
 

Realgeorge

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Howdy Jaxvid ... Thanks for the kind words


Kocur and Probert, two of my favorites. Big and brutal, but always in protection of the Federovs and Yzermans. Vlad Konstantinov remains my all-time best intimidating defenseman, in the mold of a Scott Stevens. Sad sad sad one stinking car skid and Vlad is reduced to a little child.


Your analysis about protective gear and fighting restrictions seems sound. Those of us who remember hockey in the 1970s wistfully recall the frequent bench-clearing brawls and lots of general fighting. Personally I loved it. Tiger Williams, Dave Shultz, Moose Dupont, Jerry Korab, Ken Hodge, ahhh the days of the hockey savage! but it was an honorable savagery. Protection of one's goal scorers. It was possible to go nights at a time with quiet games when two Original Six teams were interested in gaining standings points. The combat would break out when the a team's honor was at stake. 1990 and 2003 hockey would render only a handful of brawls the whole season long. The shame of it! Now everybody is protected like gladiators, and it's just soooo hard to face-wash Edmonton's or Colorado's pretty boy with all that armor.


I miss the Flyers' formula ... Early in the second period, Bobby Clarke would slash your best player's calves, behind the goal with the ref not watching. Then the offended player would take a swipe at Clarke in the corner, only to encounter Andre Dupont and Bill Barber on the next shift. The first fight would lead to retaliation skirmishes ... and if the stars were aligned right, POW!! Dave Shultz arrives with a knee-to-knee clip on the other team's lead defenseman, and before you know it, a full scale, bench-clearing Brawl! highlight stuff the next morning in the Inquirer.


Alas, Bettman the Mad Scientist has broken the NHL. I'm ready for the owners to fire him. Yeah right
 

jaxvid

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I'm sure you remember the Soviet/Flyers game in about 1974 matching the Olympic champ Russians vs. the NHL champ Flyers. The Flyers beat the Russians so bad physically that they walked off the ice and only returned when they were told they wouldn't get paid unless they did.
 

speedster

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The decade of the 70's,for me at least,were most enjoyable.Not so much for the fighting and brawling,but for the artistry and finesse of the Montreal Canadiens led by Guy Lafleur.Although I must say I did enjoy many a fight during that era but the Flyers took it way to the extreme.It was great to see a team like Montreal stick it to the Flyers and win with ability rather than dirty play and intimidation.Philly's style of play is certainly a part of hockey,but it became boring and I think the Habs did everyone a favour by showing that hockey can be won with skill,even though Philly had some talented players,it's just that Montreal had more and stuck to playing hockey for the most part.Those Montreal teams of the mid-to-late 70's were the greatest teams of all time bar none.
 

jaxvid

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I agree. The Flyers took it too far. They could be downright cruel and dirty. In fact the success they had was bad for North American hockey in that it stunted the game by making fighting more important then it should have been. I was a kid at the time though and thought that it was cool in a tough kind of way.

The Montreal teams were also cool though. I liked how they were so ethnic in that they had so many French Canadians on their team. I only found out recently that the Habs had special rights to all Quebecois players at that time.

I also recently found out that the NFL once did a similar thing. The pro teams had special rights to the kids from the local colleges. I would even like that now. I root for the local guys for 3-4 years then they leave for the pros and usually go far away. The local media here deride the local pro team because for some reason they refuse to take players from the big state schools.
 

Don Wassall

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I remember feeling badly for that Russian team in the mid-'70s. They came over here to play a hockey game and instead got the crap beat out of them!

I'd agree that the Canadians of the mid to late 70s were the best ever. Think one of them only lost 8 games during one of those seasons.

The Islanders and then the Oilers had all-time dynasties after the Canadians that were almost as good. The era when Edmonton was averaging almost five goals a game was fun to watch.

I know they don't compare, but my all-time favorite was the Penguins of the early '90s who won back to back Stanley Cups. Their '92-'93 team was easily their strongest and they should have won a third straight Cup that year. They finished the regular season with a record breaking 17 game winning streak, then rolled over New Jersey in the first round of the playoffs. Unfortunately the Devils didn't put up any resistance and the Pens weren't playoff tough when they met the Islanders in the second round. The biggest single disappointment I've ever experienced rooting for sports teams was when journeyman David Volek scored the overtime goal for the Islanders in Game 7. That one still hurts to think about.

Hey, that sounds like a good idea for a thread! Think I'll start one in Happy Hour.
 

Realgeorge

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Howdy Gents


Judging from our comments on this thread: This puts the lie to the Big Media's bull-oney conviction that "Nobody cares about the NHL." Just the opposite, the NHL's fans are as passionate -- no, the most passionate in the world. I'm pulling my hair out for the loss of my favorite sport. I would watch the complete schedule of televised NHL games year after year. And I knew plenty of other gents doing the same, and I bet you did too.


As for a best decade, 1970s and 1980s were superb -- I would gleefully watch ANY televised NHL game, whether it was Pittsburgh vs Boston in a heated championship round playoff game, or The Colorado Rockies against Vancouver Canucks for last place on the last day of the season! Sad to say that the NHL since 1994 has plodded to a slower pace, but I'll still take a Wednesday night NHL game to any maggot-infested NBA game.


Worst disappointment? Edmonton losing their chance for Three Cups in a Row when the defenseman starting a rush stuffed the puck off his own goalies' skate into own goal. Anybody remember which players were involved? Ca. 1989


Most fanatic game watch? Minnesota North Stars vs. Pittsburgh Penguins in Cup Finals 1990 (right year?) That was a year ESPN dropped hockey, and one had to fish devilishly to find a televised game. But thanks to the fine NESN (New England Sports Net?) I was able to catch all six games -- at a ratty sports bar in Melbourne, Florida during my first year in grad school. Each game the barwas absolutely PACKED with transplant hockey fans from northern climes. The North Stars had the world's best uni's with Green and Gold ... but the Pens had Super Mario, JJagr, and everybody else. It was no contest.
 

jaxvid

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Those of us lucky enough to live near the Canadian border get a regular hockey fix from the CBC which will show hockey as long as there are games. God Bless Don Cherry!

I was pretty young but the days before helmets was great. Long hair was just coming into style. Some guys had long hair, Lafluer was one of them, and it was a thrill to watch them skate down the ice. No matter what 40 yd time a brother clocks its peanuts to a guy on skates! You could also identify players easier without helmets.
 

speedster

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It's funny how things end up.The Pens' win back to back championships,and in those two years they are no better than the 6th or 7th seed overall,but they played well in the playoffs and won it all.In 1993 the Pens' had an outstanding year,clearly the best team by at least 10 points,yet they get beat by an average team and an average player who most people have long forgotten.Volek is probably back in the Czech Republic doing who knows what.Montreal benifited from Pittsburgh's demise as they went on to win the Cup.I think destiny was on their side as they won 10 straight OT games that playoff year.I also liked it when most players didn't wear helmets.But the NHL wanted players to wear them so they came out with a rule stating that as of June 1,1979,players entering the NHL had to wear a helmet.If you played in the NHL before that date or were a pro somewhere else,like the WHA(remember them?)you didn't have to wear one.As the 80's went on fewer and fewer players were going helmetless to the point that I started keeping tabs on the players that didn't.Almost to a man,when people talk about Guy Lafleur,they will say they liked watching Guy fly down the ice with his hair flowing. A joy to behold.Do you really like Don Cherry,Jaxvid?I think he's a moron,but I guess I'm in the minority,because recently the CBC had a show on called The Greatest Canadian where you could vote on who you thought contributed the most to Canadian society and Don Cherry finished 3rd.Go figure.
 

Bear-Arms

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<div style="text-align: left;">Probert was doing radio in Chicago for
awhile before he got off the wagon again. Not sure what he is
doing really. He talked about making a DVD with all his fights, and he
was proud of every single one. Goons just protect the star players from
getting cheap shots, so I don't see what the big deal is. They know
what their role is on the team, and they rarely fight anyone besides
the other teams goon. The media protrays the fight's as some brutal not
important part of the game. It's North American hockey it's suppose to
be physical, and without these player's more injuries
would most likely occur for not having players in check. European
players have to adapt to a new culture, and new system of play. They
did some interviews with some of the Blackhawk rookie from Finland.
They had a tough time with the language, and understanding how life was
here. That is why most European players are probably not an
immediate impact on the team. I hate when fan's don't give them a
chance since they're use to the high endurance game with the larger
rink. Then they're getting pushed around by guys who knew they
had to have more strength to play in the NHL. Helmet is a good rule,
but I think it should be a choice. The way these guys go down on the
ice to block the puck is just amazing to see. I wouldn't want to
get clocked in the face by a 100mph frozen piece of rubber.



Ketchup
smiley36.gif
Old Time Hockey

probert9ia.jpg



</div>
 

Realgeorge

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Hello Bear-Arms!Howdy Jaxvid! Greetings Speedster!!


Thanks, and Well Done for the excellent posts about our favorite stick-wielding athletes, the Hockey "Enforcers". They are the "lovable ones" of hockey, they whomaintain order and persuade very gently.


I hope the three of us are soon celebrating the end of the lockout and resumption of the NHL's mission. When it's time for the NHL to start operating again, we should celebrate together. Which sub-forum would you like? "Goons" ? "The Lockout"? or perhaps "The Recovery"?


Tell you what ... Bear-arms, you have provided a most excellent photo of two White Enforcers engaging in True Love. With ketchup. I nominate you to pick the sub-forum when it's time to skate once again.


Best regards, RealgeorgeEdited by: Realgeorge
 

Realgeorge

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One more thing: Don Cherry.


Don is wonderful, completely unorthodox, utterly without class or grace, but a High Priest of hockey as religion. Cherry stirs the pot relentlessly, we could use a few more like him.


He's thehockey version of Dick Vitale
 

GWTJ

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My favorite trio of goons was from the Blackhawks of the early 90's. They had Stu Grimson, Dave Manson and Mike Peluso. One of the toughest teams ever!
 

White Shogun

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Why do we like fights in hockey but abhor them in basketball or football?

If a fight breaks out during a hockey game, everyone thinks its great and cheers on the combatants.

If a fight breaks out during a basketball game, we label the guys thugs and complain about the player's ghetto behavior.

This came to mind when I watched the clips of the big fight during a recent NBA game. Why can't those guys sit on the bench for awhile instead of being ejected from the game and then suspended for several games thereafter?

I realize its 'tradition,' or an 'expected part' of a hockey game, and I enjoy watching a good fight myself. After all, I'm a huge MMA fun, so I'm no princess complaining about too much violence. I'm just curious, for all the hockey fans, why do you think there's a double standard? Do you feel that this is fair?
 

Don Wassall

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The number of fights has been brought down over the years. The big change was when players were prohibited from jumping off the bench to join in. Until then, entire teams would go after each other on the ice.


The next big change was stiffly penalizing any player who was the third player in during an existing fight. That also cut down the number of brawls significantly.


The fighting aspect has always been used by the media to denigrate hockey, and deservedly so to a degree. Just as in football, players should be able to hit each other hard without fighting about it, but fighting is very engrained in the sports's tradition.


Another factor is that they rarely hurt each other because they're fighting on skates. I watched Matthew Barnaby of the Black Hawks and Lyle Odelein of the Penguins go toe-to-toe last night for about two minutes and neither landed more than a glancing blow with a punch even though at leastfifty were thrown. It's rare when a solid punch is landed in a hockey fight.The potential for serious injury is much higher in basketball fights, plus it's easier for coaches and courtside fans to get injured during a melee. Football fights are simply stupid because they can't hurt each other because of all the equipment. The only way to hurt someone is by a punch in the stomach, but they always flail away at each other's helmets.
 

JD074

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The Rudy T. incident is probably a contributing factor to why fights are so taboo in basketball.
 

Maple Leaf

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There is only one reason why fighting is allowed in hockey.

Fighting helps to sell the game. Fans like to watch physical contact, but because the season is so long and the players are so big now players cannot keep up the heavy bodychecking. A pure passing and shooting game can get boring and the drama of a fight adds excitement. In the playoffs fighting almost vanishes and the bodychecking can get fierce. If you have ever seen a live game than you would know that people jump out of their seats when a fight starts. It is easy to understand really, ask yourself the question: if fighting turned fans away in droves would fighting be still allowed? Of course not, otherwise there would be no game without the fans. The owners are selling a product that is demanded because it has always been there and the performers are not in contact with the fans. Any other arguement isn't worth entertaining. Football has never had fighting, it has plenty of contact, and the fans do not want it as they have never had it. Basketball has never had fighting, fans do not want it anyway as they like to follow the bouncing ball...
 
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White Shogun said:
Why do we like fights in hockey but abhor them in basketball or football?

If a fight breaks out during a hockey game, everyone thinks its great and cheers on the combatants.

If a fight breaks out during a basketball game, we label the guys thugs and complain about the player's ghetto behavior.

This came to mind when I watched the clips of the big fight during a recent NBA game. Why can't those guys sit on the bench for awhile instead of being ejected from the game and then suspended for several games thereafter?

I realize its 'tradition,' or an 'expected part' of a hockey game, and I enjoy watching a good fight myself. After all, I'm a huge MMA fun, so I'm no princess complaining about too much violence. I'm just curious, for all the hockey fans, why do you think there's a double standard? Do you feel that this is fair?

Good question Shogun. As a player of the game for over 15 years, I will point out the distinct difference between a fight on the ice in the NHL and fight/riot involving the homeboys in the NBA or NFL.
Hockey fights are controlled 99% of the time. Its a concentual descision made between two tough guys from different teams who feel that its time "to go". And when they do, the gloves drop, they kick their sticks and gloves out of the way so no one trips on them, and the refs stand back and observe the fight until they feel that the losing combatant has "had enough" so to speak. Then, the fight is stopped.
Now, lets fast forward to what usually happens during a scuffle in the National Felons League (NFL) and the National Bruthas Association (NBA). For one thing, there is no "control" overseen by an official, nor is there any "respect" from one player to another. Its basically a "melee" of uneducated morons pushing shoving, and acting like complete animals to look cool on tv and show the world "how bad they be".

Bottom line: -Hockey fights serve a purpose
(To protect a certain player and/or show
 the opposing team that abuse of this
 playe r will not be tolerated.)

-NFL and NBA "sissy fights" and displays of
 "sava gethuggery inflicted upon its fans"
 DO NOT serve a purpose what-so-ever.Edited by: Ground Fighter
 

white is right

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White Shogun said:
Why do we like fights in hockey but abhor them in basketball or football?

If a fight breaks out during a hockey game, everyone thinks its great and cheers on the combatants.

If a fight breaks out during a basketball game, we label the guys thugs and complain about the player's ghetto behavior.

This came to mind when I watched the clips of the big fight during a recent NBA game. Why can't those guys sit on the bench for awhile instead of being ejected from the game and then suspended for several games thereafter?

I realize its 'tradition,' or an 'expected part' of a hockey game, and I enjoy watching a good fight myself. After all, I'm a huge MMA fun, so I'm no princess complaining about too much violence. I'm just curious, for all the hockey fans, why do you think there's a double standard? Do you feel that this is fair?
One argument for fighting is that it limits stick work which is much more dangerous. Don Cherry has always stated the Euro league games are much more chippy because of the lack of fighting in these leagues. The only brawls that seem to happen with any frequency these days are baseball brawls. The problem with baseball is that only about 2 games want to fight and the rest look like they are looking for cha-cha partners at a gay bar...
smiley36.gif
Edited by: white is right
 
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