General Neyland vs. Bryant, Vaught

[sport historian]

On another thread, Colonel Reb showed that he isn't an old-line SEC fan. There was a coach who had a winning record against both Bryant and Vaught. That is Tennessee's legendary coach of 1926-52, General Robert R. Neyland. Incidentally, he WAS a real army general. He was a Captain when he came to the UT in 1925 to teach ROTC. He missed 1934 and from 1941-45 (WWII) for military duty.


Neyland lost his first two games against Johnny Vaught in 1947 and 1948. Vaught was already ahead of him with his T-passing game. The General beat Vaught his last three gamers against him from 1949-51. This means that Vaught was 2-3 against Neyland.


The General was 5-0-2 against Bear Bryant when at Kentucky. Twice, 1949 and 1950, Bryant was favored, but lost. So, there was an SEC coach that Bear Bryant didn't have a winning record against. He didn't even when a game. The 1952 14-14 tie between Tennessee and Kentucky was considered a "moral victory" for Bryant. Bryant said in his autobiography, "Everybody thought Neyland had a jinx on us. It was no jinx. He was a better coach, and he had better football players-and I couldn't stand it."

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Sport Historian, maybe I'm just not an OLD SEC fan like you because I'm 27, and I sure didn't have a book in front of me when I posted like you did. I just now looked it up, and my original source forgot to mention Neyland. I think you missed the point of my post though.

You should know by now I'm no Bryant fan, and I was talking up Vaught because he gets practically 0 credit for doing more with less than any coach in college football history. He had a very small school to work with, as well a small athletic budget, and a school that had never been a football power.

I won't start a new thread just to tell you that you actually strengthened my argument about Vaught. With your information now at the fore, Vaught seems an even better coach than my earlier beliefs held!

Other than being 1 win away a winning record against Neyland, Vaught dominated Tennessee pretty well, a fact you discussed in my thread. Neyland was a person to admire and use as a role model. He should never be left out of the discussion like he was in the biography of Vaught that I got my info from. He is still the model of success in the SEC, over 50 years after his retirement. Edited by: Colonel_Reb

 

[sport historian]

Yes, Colonel Reb, I had a book in front of me for that post. Vaught gets little credit today, but he had a phenomenal record in the 50s and early 60s. In his first meeting with Neyland in 1947, he won 43-13, with Charley Conerly passing Tennessee dizzy. As I mentioned, the game, as Johnny Vaught coached it, was starting to pass Neyland by when he stepped down as Tennessee's coach in 1952. Tennessee couldn't even stay in the game with Ole Miss in the early 60s. You can look at the scores of Tennessee-Mississippi games for those years.


It's forgotten now that in 1960, Johnny Vaught was considered a better coach than Bear Bryant. A coach who beat Neyland's team in his first two games was unheard of. As I said, Bryant never beat Neyland when at Kentucky, despite having very good personnel. For example, Bryant had George Blanda and Babe Parilli at QB.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

That's right, Bear had the picks o' the litter when it came to recruits. I think one reason he gets too much credit is because of his ties to the Caste Sustem's beginnings, and for "doing the right thing" by recruiting blacks, he is glorified by the Caste System media hirelings.

 

[redeye]

I don't think you're giving Bryant his due. Bryant did have some great talent, but he was also a great coach. He won national titles in 1961, 1965, 1978 and 1979 and at least 11 SEC titles. They should have won in 1966 but they didn't want to award the Title to an all white team. Bryant began recuiting blacks in 1970 and treated them fairly, but he certainly did not give them any advantage over whites. Unlike many programs such as Oklahoma and Florida during that time, Bryant's teams were never predominately black. HIs 1979 championship team started three white players in the backfield of his wishbone offense and also started a white wide reciever. His 1979 team was only 1/3 black. Unfortunately, in 1981 the Atlanta Constitutionwrote an article describing how whites were favored over blacks under Bryant. I don't think you can legitimately say he glorified the Caste System

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Uh, redeye, maybe you should read my post again. I said the Caste System media glorifies him because he did more to integrate the SEC than any coach. I agree that he probably did treat whites and blacks fairly equally most of the time. I do not agree that he was any more favorable to whites after 1970 than blacks. I doubt that OU and UF had much more than 1/3 blacks before 1980. In 1971, OU only had two or three that played often. All I am saying is that with Bryant, integration was very rapid. By 1982, his team was over 1/3 black and getting close to 1/2, especially when you look at starters. Go to his museum in Tuscaloosa if you don't believe me. I have never doubted his coaching ability on this site. He was an unreal motivator, no doubt. I think you are correct about his 1966 squad. By the way, welcome to Caste Football.

 

[Bronk]

Gentlemen, just as a point of reference, I would like to point out that both Neyland and Vaught were native Texans. Neyland, from Greeville (motto: Blackest Earth; Whitest People)spent a year or two at Texas A&M and Vaught was from Ingleside and all-SWC at TCU.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

Vaught was an All-American at TCU. He was an awesome player. Bryant was great as a player in his own right.