Fifty years since the JFK assassination: do you believe the official version?

[Freethinker]

JFK was no threat to the Federal Reserve at all.

So when Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110, which put into circulation silver backed currency issued by the US Treasury (as defined in the Constitution), you don't think The Federal Reserve cared? You think they would be ok with a "sound" currency to compete with their debt-backed Reserve Notes? The last president to attempt this was Lincoln and he was assassinated too, go figure.

Kennedy also was against Israel having a nuclear program. David Ben-Gurion hated Kennedy and chose to resign rather than answer the demands for inspection. After JFK was killed these issue went away and no US president has challenged Israel or the Fed again.

JFK was no white knight anti-establishment figure. He was as much an insider and a defender of the status quo as anyone in D.C.

I don't think JFK was perfect. He had plenty of failures and some of his politics I'd never support. However, he did seem to "see the light" after the mid term elections and before he was killed.

There are many misleading conspiracy theories, created by the supremacists to confuse and distract us from the truth (example: the movie JFK. The book Final Judgement is the only one you should read, it will clarify everything.

I will certainly pickup a copy of this. I was going to also read JFK and the Unspeakable by James Douglass. Paul Craig Roberts spoke highly of the book and I think highly of PCR.

 

[Bronk]

The motive, according to Oliver Stone is that JFK was going to pull out of Vietnam, for which the Military Industrial Complex created an elaborate conspiracy to kill him.

Stone started out with Ferrie, Bannister, Shaw, and anti-Castro types in New Orleans. These are mostly a low-level bunch.

He used Donald Sutherland's character "X," to link them to the CIA-Industrial Complex in Washington D.C. This is the funniest part of the film.

If someone like "X" had testified at Clay Shaw's trial, he would have been slaughtered on cross-examination and laughed off the stand.

You are correct, but Stone never really linked the government higher ups with the nutcase **** in NOLA, did he? He insinuated a link, which made no sense anyway because sophisticated US officials were not going to contract with that bunch to do the killing, were they? he even makes it look like the NOLA crowd did it on their own because they were so miffed!

The movie is entertaining because of the performances and the great pace, but the whole narrative -- the damn PLOT -- is a freaking mess of nonsense.

Again, notice that Stone totally stayed away from the actual Jim Garrison's theories because they were worthless and un-PC.

 

[Charles Martel]

Yes, I've been to the Sixth Floor Museum and though you can't get to the actual window Oswald shot from (the sniper's nest is behind glass) he was right on top of JFK's car. Like Oswald, I was a Marine and Oswald used his USMC training to wait until the car turned the corner and he was behind the target. It was a classic ambush.

As for the movie JFK, can anyone tell us what the motive was for assassinating the president in that film? Although Jim Garrison was the hero of the movie, Garrison's actual theory's were discarded wholesale by Oliver Stone because Garrison had about eight or nine ideas, all of which were nutty (including his idea that the assassination was a homosexual "thrill killing").

If Caste posters are going to accept Oliver Stone as the authority on the JFK assassination, they can't very well say the Warren Commission Report is the work of hucksters!

The movie JFK was created by Zachary Sklar, Israeli Arnon Milchan and Oliver Stone. It was full of factual errors and seemed to be for the purpose of confusing people and covering up the truth. It makes anyone who questions the official version look like a fool.

Kind of like Alex Jones' and David Icke's websites.

For an honest explanation of what may have really happened and most importantly WHY, read the book Final Judgement by Michael Collins Piper.

You can be sure the supremacists will never make a movie based on Final Judgement.

 

[Bronk]

So when Kennedy issued Executive Order 11110, which put into circulation silver backed currency issued by the US Treasury (as defined in the Constitution), you don't think The Federal Reserve cared? You think they would be ok with a "sound" currency to compete with their debt-backed Reserve Notes? The last president to attempt this was Lincoln and he was assassinated too, go figure.

Where is the hard evidence that the Fed killed JFK?

No, the mere issue of silver currency -- which was on a limited scale -- poses little threat to the Fed. The ultimate threat to the Fed is to amend the constitution or audit the place, not issuing a few silver coins. Remember that the USA had national banks at the same time we had hard currency.

Abe Lincoln? Lincoln instituted the income tax and floated fiat greenbacks to pay for the Civil War, to say he was a paragon of sound money -- and killed for it -- is shocking, to say the least.

Kennedy also was against Israel having a nuclear program. David Ben-Gurion hated Kennedy and chose to resign rather than answer the demands for inspection. After JFK was killed these issue went away and no US president has challenged Israel or the Fed again.

I just don't see any credible evidence that Israel played a role in the assassination at all.

I don't think JFK was perfect. He had plenty of failures and some of his politics I'd never support. However, he did seem to "see the light" after the mid term elections and before he was killed.

I think JFK moderated his stance somewhat in the wake of the Cuban showdown (or changed tactics to a degree), but he was still a Cold Warrior. He gave the green light to the assassination of the CATHOLIC Diem just a week before he was killed in Dallas. See the light, I don't think so,

 

[Charles Martel]

Was JFK talking about the Zionists in this speech? He says "Rely on covert means" "infiltration" "indimidation" "subversion" and "vast resources"?

Interestingly, JFK's father Joseph spoke openly about the way the supremacists were undermining America. The most fanatical Zionists believe in "amalek" - in killing not only their enemies, but also the sons and grandsons of their enemies.

[video=youtube;XXntTJgqf7c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XXntTJgqf7c[/video]

 

[Freethinker]

Where is the hard evidence that the Fed killed JFK?

No, the mere issue of silver currency -- which was on a limited scale -- poses little threat to the Fed. The ultimate threat to the Fed is to amend the constitution or audit the place, not issuing a few silver coins. Remember that the USA had national banks at the same time we had hard currency.

Abe Lincoln? Lincoln instituted the income tax and floated fiat greenbacks to pay for the Civil War, to say he was a paragon of sound money -- and killed for it -- is shocking, to say the least.

I never attempted to provide hard evidence, I merely said Kennedy made alot of enemies. The Fed was certainly no friend. Yes, it was small scale but remember Kennedy was killed later that year. Who's knows what he would have done with potentially 5 more years in office.

I'm trying to logically think who had the most to gain by this. Oswald? Why would Oswald a supposedly devout communist kill Kennedy knowing that Kennedy would be replaced by a devout anti-communist Cold Warrior like LBJ? Also, if he did kill JFK who he supposedly despised, why deny and claim he was a patsy? Why not be proud of his accomplishment? Seems to me, there is a long list of people who had more to gain by killing JFK than Oswald did.

Lincoln was one of the worst inflaters in US history and you won't find anyone who despised his tyrannical presidency more than me but greenbacks were still a threat to central banking. Central banks, as I'm sure you know, lend money to governments with interest. It's the interest on the debt that they profit off of. Lincoln figured why borrow from the national bank with interest when he could have the treasury print fiat money debt free. Central bankers simply do not like when governments print or coin money through their own treasury. I never meant to insinuate that Lincoln understood or supported sound money.

 

[sport historian]

The CIA had nothing to do with it and were not his enemies. His enemies were those who ran the Federal Reserve, some organized crime bosses (such as Meyer Lansky, a fanatical Zionist).

It was indeed the turning point in American history. The supremacists' previous attempt to kill an American president failed. They became bolder after killing JFK and getting away with it.

There are many misleading conspiracy theories, created by the supremacists to confuse and distract us from the truth (example: the movie JFK).

The book Final Judgement is the only one you should read, it will clarify everything.

And why didn't Israel kill President Eisenhower after the 1956 Suez Crisis? The United States joined with the Soviets and the United Nations to force Britain, France, and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.

Eisenhower is often described as the last American president to stand up to the Israeli Lobby. His actions during the Suez Crisis angered Israel and their supporters more than anything Kennedy ever did.

Also, since Oswald and Oswald alone killed JFK, where is the connection between Oswald and Israel?

You wrote:

"The book Final Judgement is the only one you should read, it will clarify everything."

When you are studying history, you do not "read only one book."

 

[Kaptain]

Why do conspiracists get so ((((ANGRY)))) when someone dare state that Oswald killed JFK and did it on his own? What kind of personal stake do you have in the believing in conspiracy? Conspiracists are no different from leftists who cling to their false beliefs long after they've been proven wrong.

Ruby killed Oswald because he was a nut who thought he'd be hailed as a hero. Why did Ruby not kill Oswald on Friday night in the Dallas police station when Oswald passed near him at least twice? How could Ruby have timed his shooting of Oswald in the basement? He was in the Western Union office just minutes before he shot Lee Harvey. What about those who saw Oswald fire from the Depository and those watching one floor below him who heard the shots, the recycling of the rifle and the shells hit the floor?

The only thing rickety about the Warren Commission Report is the way it was put together (the formatting) and that it was too hasty. Any conspiracy theory you want to pick falls apart like a cheap suit halfway through the its thesis.

You mistake my bluntness for anger. You sure have a lot of questions for someone that seems to know the answer. Why is it not important that ruby was a jewish gangster? In all other large crimes such as assasinations the background of the assasin is of upmost importance. But apparently we are suppose to ignore such evidence in this case as it may upset the delicate flowers in our midst. How do you know ruby killed Oswald because he was a glory hound? Do you have proof or are you just repeating what the box told you?

 

[Charles Martel]

And why didn't Israel kill President Eisenhower after the 1956 Suez Crisis? The United States joined with the Soviets and the United Nations to force Britain, France, and Israel to withdraw from Egypt.

It's not something that could be done so quickly and easily. Such an assassination would take a lot of planning and involve a lot of people. They'd need to have the right people in the right places, all carefully selected, including the patsy.

At the time, your people had somewhat less power than nowadays, although they became more influential every year during the 1950s and 1960s. It would be much easier for them to pull it off today than in 1956. They may have considered doing it at that time.

Eisenhower is often described as the last American president to stand up to the Israeli Lobby.

No, JFK was the last to stand up to them. Johnson did whatever they wanted. Nixon was well aware of their power and was afraid of them, he had a handler named Henry Kissenger.

His actions during the Suez Crisis angered Israel and their supporters more than anything Kennedy ever did.

That is not correct. Kennedy's father was outspoken about their power. JFK was going to reform the Federal Reserve, he didn't want Israel to develop nuclear weapons, and he didn't cooperate with the supremacists in Washington in other matters.

Also, since Oswald and Oswald alone killed JFK, where is the connection between Oswald and Israel?

to begin with, one of your people Jack Rubinstein shot Oswald. Another Zionist named Zapruder filmed and documented the event, as if he knew it was going to happen.

More answers can be found in the book Final Judgement. I know your people don't like that book and even tried to have it banned, but the answers are there.

When you are studying history, you do not "read only one book."

Of course that's generally true if you are studying history.

But you want to learn about the JFK assassination, it's better not to become confused and mislead by reading books with silly conspiracy theories about the CIA, Military Industrial Complex, Vietnam, and the Italian mafia. Or read a book providing the equally absurd "official" version that some left-wing loser who wasn't a very good shot hit the president in a moving vehicle at a distance, even though the third bullet was the explosive type that could not be fired from his old rifle.

And it's better to avoid watching a movie made by your fellow Chosen Ones (Milchar, Sklar and Stone) or read the findings of the Warren Commission (which had a disproportionate number of your people working on it, about 50%: Goldberg, Belin, Stern, Laulicht, Redlich, Specter, Liebeler, Ely, Weinreb, Mosk, Pollak, Eisenberg, etc).

We know your people would never talk about the real conspirators who set Oswald up to be the patsy, although you might feel it necessary to briefly mention two from your tribe: Rubinstein of course, and Zapruder, who was there to film and document the event.

Motive is very important in determining guilt. It easy to establish the supremacists had a motive to kill JFK.

 

[sport historian]

It's not something that could be done so quickly and easily. Such an assassination would take a lot of planning and involve a lot of people. They'd need to have the right people in the right places, all carefully selected, including the patsy.

At the time, your people had somewhat less power than nowadays, although they became more influential every year during the 1950s and 1960s. It would be much easier for them to pull it off today than in 1956. They may have considered doing it at that time.

No, JFK was the last to stand up to them. Johnson did whatever they wanted. Nixon was well aware of their power and was afraid of them, he had a handler named Henry Kissenger.
That is not correct. Kennedy's father was outspoken about their power. JFK was going to reform the Federal Reserve, he didn't want Israel to develop nuclear weapons, and he didn't cooperate with the supremacists in Washington in other matters.
to begin with, one of your people Jack Rubinstein shot Oswald. Another Zionist named Zapruder filmed and documented the event, as if he knew it was going to happen.

More answers can be found in the book Final Judgement. I know your people don't like that book and even tried to have it banned, but the answers are there.
Of course that's generally true if you are studying history.

But you want to learn about the JFK assassination, it's better not to become confused and mislead by reading books with silly conspiracy theories about the CIA, Military Industrial Complex, Vietnam, and the Italian mafia. Or read a book providing the equally absurd "official" version that some left-wing loser who wasn't a very good shot hit the president in a moving vehicle at a distance, even though the third bullet was the explosive type that could not be fired from his old rifle.

And it's better to avoid watching a movie made by your fellow Chosen Ones (Milchar, Sklar and Stone) or read the findings of the Warren Commission (which had a disproportionate number of your people working on it, about 50%: Goldberg, Belin, Stern, Laulicht, Redlich, Specter, Liebeler, Ely, Weinreb, Mosk, Pollak, Eisenberg, etc).

We know your people would never talk about the real conspirators who set Oswald up to be the patsy, although you might feel it necessary to briefly mention two from your tribe: Rubinstein of course, and Zapruder, who was there to film and document the event.

Motive is very important in determining guilt. It easy to establish the supremacists had a motive to kill JFK.

So you claim I'm a Jew? LOL.

This is the same tired fantasy peddled by Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, etc. Now it's the Mossad instead of the CIA and a fixation on Israel instead of The Military Industrial Complex and Vietnam.

Could you tell us again about Oswald's connection to Israel?

 

[Charles Martel]

So you claim I'm a Jew? LOL.

In your case, it couldn't be any more obvious.

This is the same tired fantasy peddled by Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, etc. Now it's the Mossad instead of the CIA and a fixation on Israel instead of The Military Industrial Complex and Vietnam.

No, it's not the same at all.

If we were talking about the Military Industrial Complex, Vietnam and the CIA, you'd be thinking "stupid gullible goyim" wouldn't have felt a need to reply in this thread. You are very predictable - I knew when I mentioned Final Judgement you would post in the thread. Your people tried to have that book banned, didn't they?

Could you tell us again about Oswald's connection to Israel?

I'm sure you know what a patsy is? He was ideal for the role for a number of reasons (except they probably should have chosen someone who had a record of being a better marksman in the military).

 

[Average American]

My parents and I were watching the Oswald news conference live on TV, and I still remember their immediate reaction when Rubinstein shot Oswald. We all felt it must have been done to keep him quiet about others who were involved in the assassination.

Carcharias.. With all due respect, your family feeling that Ruby was covering up an assassination plot.. doesn't constitute credible evidence.. I'm completely open to theories that go beyond Oswald acting alone, but theorists have to come with more than hunches.
The concept that always trips me up the most about dismissing Oswald as a 'patsy', is his witnessed killing of Officer JD Tippitt. I mean, every witness was in on framing Oswald (?), a police dispatcher was in on putting out a bogus description to get Oswald hunted down & then Tippitt was sacrificed as part of the charade. To me, Oswald killing a cop while fleeing a murder scene makes sense, and has forensic confirmation.. Why would a patsy randomly murder a cop moments after the JFK killing (I'm willing to listen to alternate explanations ?)

I understand every official statement & piece of evidence can be questioned, but Oswald going solo & killing Kennedy & Tippitt has a compelling evidentiary case (as to date), more than a case against the CIA, or Israel, no (?) I think a lot of JFK conspiracies are formed on emotion (?) anyways, peace.

 

[Charles Martel]

Carcharias.. With all due respect, your family feeling that Ruby was covering up an assassination plot.. doesn't constitute credible evidence.. I'm completely open to theories that go beyond Oswald acting alone, but theorists have to come with more than hunches.

I'm not saying Ruby killing Oswald in itself proves that Oswald didn't act alone.

When I was a young boy watching it live on TV, I didn't even know what a Jew was. But common sense made us feel it was suspicious, although we knew there was a possibility he may have just been a citizen who loved the president.

Later when I realized Rubenstein was a scumbag strip club owner with criminal connections it seemed in line with my gut feeling that he was killing Oswald to keep him quiet.

And years later, I learned the Kennedys were unpopular with Jews, because Joseph Kennedy had spoken out against the supremacists influence in America. Would a Jew take revenge for the shooting of the son of someone labelled "anti-Semite"?

Now if someone assassinated a visiting prime minister of Israel and someone like Rubinstein shot him in a police station a day or two later, it would be more likely to be just an angry act of vengeance.

The concept that always trips me up the most about dismissing Oswald as a 'patsy', is his witnessed killing of Officer JD Tippitt. I mean, every witness was in on framing Oswald (?), a police dispatcher was in on putting out a bogus description to get Oswald hunted down & then Tippitt was sacrificed as part of the charade. To me, Oswald killing a cop while fleeing a murder scene makes sense, and has forensic confirmation.. Why would a patsy randomly murder a cop moments after the JFK killing (I'm willing to listen to alternate explanations ?)

Someone so stupid as to panic and shoot a police officer in that situation doesn't seem capable of killing a president, but someone that stupid could be useful as a patsy.

I understand every official statement & piece of evidence can be questioned, but Oswald going solo & killing Kennedy & Tippitt has a compelling evidentiary case (as to date), more than a case against the CIA, or Israel, no (?) I think a lot of JFK conspiracies are formed on emotion (?) anyways, peace.

Experts on rifles and ammunition say the third bullet that exploded inside JFK's head didn't come from his rifle.

The first two shots - the "magic" bullet that went through JFK and into Connelly, and the second one that missed could have come from Oswald's rifle. Since Oswald wasn't a very good shot, and he would likely have been nervous by that point, it's not surprising that he missed. JFK was also a bit farther away when the second shot was fired.

The third shot, a perfect hit with an exploding bullet, came from a different direction. The exploding bullet is inconsistent with Oswald's rifle as well as the shell casings found where Oswald alledgedly fired from.

Please read the book Final Judgement. You'll see it's not a wild conspiracy theory, it's actually a carefully researched document. Perhaps after you read it, you may change your mind. I've not studied the assassination in detail like Michael Collins Piper has, so the book will provide far better answers to all of your questions than I'm able to give.

 

[Average American]

Please read the book Final Judgement. You'll see it's not a wild conspiracy theory, it's actually a carefully researched document. Perhaps after you read it, you may change your mind./FONT]

Fair enough.. I should give the book a fair chance..

In terms of Oswald's killing of Tippit.. I don't view that as 'stupid'. I think Tippit stopped him because Oswald fit the description sent out. A witness described Tippit as pulling up on Oswald & engaging him, then leaving his squad car.. meaning he may have been getting ready to detain Oswald (?) It would have been a reasonable, calculated move on Oswald's part to kill Tippit in order to secure his escape. And if that wasn't the case, & it was purely panic on Oswald's part.. it would also be a reasonable emotion after killing the president & knowing a serious manhunt was on.

Booth broke his leg after shooting Lincoln, unforeseen things happen in a high pressure escape y'know..

 

[Bronk]

You mistake my bluntness for anger. You sure have a lot of questions for someone that seems to know the answer. Why is it not important that ruby was a jewish gangster? In all other large crimes such as assasinations the background of the assasin is of upmost importance. But apparently we are suppose to ignore such evidence in this case as it may upset the delicate flowers in our midst. How do you know ruby killed Oswald because he was a glory hound? Do you have proof or are you just repeating what the box told you?

Was Ruby a gangster?

As a youngster he had a very loose connection at the lowest levels to the Capone gang, i.e. he ran errands for a couple of members. That's nothing. The Capone gang was well neutralized even before WWII, so even if Ruby had been a more significant member of that crew, he wasn't involved post WWII. Also, there was almost no outside (Mafia) organized crime activity in Dallas in 1963 and Ruby appeared on no Dallas PD CID (Criminal Intelligence Division) lists of organized crime figures.

Why didn't Ruby shoot Oswald on Friday night when he had three good chances? How do conspiracists explain Sunday morning and the Western Union office? Also, if Ruby was to rub out Oswald to keep him from talking, who was supposed to keep Ruby from talking?

I do research -- it's my job -- and don't rely on the musings of conspiracy peddlers who can't make a credible, verifiable case. I started out believing in conspiracy but I don't like being lied to and manipulated which is exactly what the leading and lesser conspiracy book writers have done.

 

[Charles Martel]

Was Ruby a gangster?

As a youngster he had a very loose connection at the lowest levels to the Capone gang, i.e. he ran errands for a couple of members. That's nothing. The Capone gang was well neutralized even before WWII, so even if Ruby had been a more significant member of that crew, he wasn't involved post WWII. Also, there was almost no outside (Mafia) organized crime activity in Dallas in 1963 and Ruby appeared on no Dallas PD CID (Criminal Intelligence Division) lists of organized crime figures.

Why didn't Ruby shoot Oswald on Friday night when he had three good chances? How do conspiracists explain Sunday morning and the Western Union office? Also, if Ruby was to rub out Oswald to keep him from talking, who was supposed to keep Ruby from talking?

I do research -- it's my job -- and don't rely on the musings of conspiracy peddlers who can't make a credible, verifiable case. I started out believing in conspiracy but I don't like being lied to and manipulated which is exactly what the leading and lesser conspiracy book writers have done.

Have you read Final Judgement?

I agree some of the conspiracy theories are misleading and confusing, and created for the purpose of making money and, in the case of the movie JFK, distracting from the truth.

But Final Judgement is honest. You'll see it was carefully documented and well-researched.

 

[Don Wassall]

Carcharias,

Sport Historian never said he was Jewish. This is how threads degenerate into name calling and flaming. And even if he said he was Jewish, it doesn't automatically discredit his opinions.

Everyone involved in this thread has strong opinions on the JFK assassination. Let's keep the discussion at a high level.

 

[Bronk]

Have you read Final Judgement?

I agree some of the conspiracy theories are misleading and confusing, and created for the purpose of making money and, in the case of the movie JFK, distracting from the truth.

But Final Judgement is honest. You'll see it was carefully documented and well-researched.

No, I have not read that. I seriously doubt that Israel had anything to do with killing JFK. Israel in 1963 had zero to gain from assassinating JFK and a whole lot to lose.

I called my friend who has done a ton of research on the Kennedy assassination (I've traveled with him to Dallas three times to help him do research and interviews) to ask if there was any connection between Ruby and the Capone gang and he said that no serious evidence exists about that.