Fifty years since the JFK assassination: do you believe the official version?

[Charles Martel]

It's been 50 years now since JFK was assassinated.

Do you believe the official version?

Do you think the Warren Commission did their job and came to correct conclusion, that there was just a lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald?

Or was Oswald just a "patsy" like he said before Jack Rubinstein shot him? Were there more people involved?

 

[Charles Martel]

Final Judgment

http://100777.com/node/191

When New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison charged businessman Clay Shaw with participation in the JFK assassination conspiracy Garrison stumbled upon the Israeli Mossad connection to the murder of President Kennedy. Shaw served on the board of a shadowy corporation known as Permindex. A primary shareholder in Permindex was the Banque De Credit International of Geneva, founded by Tibor Rosenbaum, an arms procurer and financier for the Mossad.

What's more, the Mossad-sponsored Swiss bank was the chief "money laundry" for Meyer Lansky, the head of the international crime syndicate and an Israeli loyalist whose operations meshed closely on many fronts with the American CIA.
The chairman of Permindex was Louis M. Bloomfield of Montreal, a key figure in the Israeli lobby and an operative of the Bronfman family of Canada, long-time Lansky associates and among Israel's primary international patrons.

In the pages of "Final Judgment" the Israeli connection to the JFK assassination is explored in frightening--and fully documented--detail. For example, did you know:

. That JFK was engaged in a bitter secret conflict with Israel over U.S. East policy and that Israel's prime minister resigned in disgust, saying JFK's stance threatened Israel's very survival?

. That JFK's successor, Lyndon Johnson, immediately reversed America's policy toward Israel?

. That the top Mafia figures often alleged to be behind the JFK assassination were only front men for Meyer Lansky?

. That the CIA's liaison to the Mossad, James Angleton, was a prime mover behind the cover-up of the JFK assassination?

Why didn't Oliver Stone, in his famous movie "JFK" not mention any of this? It turns out the chief financial backer of Stone's film was longtime Mossad figure, Arnon Milchan, Israel's biggest arms dealer.

The very fact that the Israeli lobby has gone through such great lengths to try to smear Michael Collins Piper and to try to discredit Final Judgment gives the book great credibility. If the book was really so silly or so unconvincing, it doesn't seem likely that groups such as the Anti-Defamation League would go out of their way to try to suppress the book as they have.

The fact is that Piper demonstrates that Israel did indeed have a very strong motive to want to get JFK out of the way and that numerous people who have been linked in other writings to the JFK conspiracy were (as Piper documents) also in the sphere of influence of Israel's Mossad. Not only Clay Shaw in New Orleans, but also James Angleton at the CIA, who was Israel's strongest advocate at the CIA and also the CIA's liaison to the Mossad. The Israeli connection is indeed "the missing link in the JFK assassination conspiracy."


The fact is that Piper's book documents (quite clearly, in my estimation) not only the means, opportunity and the motive for Israeli Mossad involvement in the assassination (working in conjunction with the CIA), but it is also quite a fascinating and very interesting read. "Boring" is the last word I'd use to describe the book, and it is certainly not "poorly written."

What's more, the book is not--I repeat--not "anti-Semitic" and the book has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the Holocaust. In fact, anybody familiar with any of the standard writings on the JFK assassination will recognize the names of some of the key players in the scenario Piper documents: Clay Shaw, David Ferrie, Guy Banister and James J. Angleton of the CIA--and none of them were Jewish. So where this reviewer gets off saying that Piper finds "a Jew under every rock" is beyond me.

I have read literally hundreds of books and magazine articles and other material on the JFK assassination and not in a single one of them--with the exception of Final Judgment--did I ever learn that President John F. Kennedy was trying to stop Israel from building the nuclear bomb and that this literally touched off a "secret war" behind the scenes between JFK and Israel's prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, who resigned (among other reasons) in disgust over JFK's policies with Israel. In fact, Israeli historian Avner Cohen in his book, Israel and the Bomb, documents this quite thoroughly.

And in Final Judgment Piper also outlines some interesting Israeli connections by people who have been linked to the JFK assassination and cover-up, including Clay Shaw of New Orleans.

Even Israeli journalist Barry Chamish has written in an Internet review of Final Judgment that he finds Piper's Israeli connection (via Shaw and Permindex) quite convincing.

 

[Charles Martel]

Firearms experts say the first bullet that hit JFK was perfectly consistent with with the casings in the book depository, and with the rifle and with the angle that Oswald would have been shooting from.

The second shot missed, which makes sense considering Oswald wasn't a highly skilled marksman, based on his military record.

However, they say the third shot - the shot that that killed JFK and blew a large hole in his skull - must have been a different kind of bullet, one that would "explode on impact". This kind of bullet is inconsistent with the empty casings in the depository, and must have been fired from a very different angle than the location of Oswald in the book depository.

 

[Awake in America]

Firearms experts say the first bullet that hit JFK was perfectly consistent with with the casings in the book depository, and with the rifle and with the angle that Oswald would have been shooting from.

The second shot missed, which makes sense considering Oswald wasn't a highly skilled marksman, based on his military record.

However, they say the third shot - the shot that that killed JFK and blew a large hole in his skull - must have been a different kind of bullet, one that would "explode on impact". This kind of bullet is inconsistent with the empty casings in the depository, and must have been fired from a very different angle than the location of Oswald in the book depository.

That's interesting, because my take on the film has always been that the first shot did not come from Oswald. I always thought that when JFK raised his hands up, he had been hit in the neck, probably from the grassy knoll. After that, when his wife obviously sees that something is wrong, Oswald missed JFK, but hits Connelly, then Oswald hits JFK in the head for the kill shot.

I have no idea what happened, other than Oswald did act, but not alone, and not on his own orders.

 

[joegoofinoff]

Unbeknownst to me at the time, JFK made a speech several months before and said Vietnam was a civil war and he was going to take our advisers out and he was going to wash his hands of the whole business. That was when it was decided he was done. They had the bum, lbj waiting there and they knew he'd toe the line and the slobs (military industrial complex) could have their war.
I've always thought that.

joegoofinoff...

 

[Charles Martel]

That's interesting, because my take on the film has always been that the first shot did not come from Oswald. I always thought that when JFK raised his hands up, he had been hit in the neck, probably from the grassy knoll. After that, when his wife obviously sees that something is wrong, Oswald missed JFK, but hits Connelly, then Oswald hits JFK in the head for the kill shot.

I have no idea what happened, other than Oswald did act, but not alone, and not on his own orders.

The first shot is controversial too, even though it was consistent with Oswald's rifle and casing.

It's called the "magic bullet" because it changed direction several times as it first went through JFK and then through Connelly. Some believe there were actually two shots close to the same time, one hitting JFK and another hitting Connelly.

But that being said, firearms experts say it's not impossible both men were shot by the same bullet and the bullet changed direction several times.

What's more strange is that the last bullet exploded as it entered JFK's head, while the "magic bullet" remained perfectly intact as it went through both men.

 

[Colonel_Reb]

I don't buy the official version. Methinks there was much more to the assassination than what the gubmint says meets the eye.

 

[DixieDestroyer]

Like 9/11, the "official" fedgov explaination of JFK's 'neutralization' is BS. I believe he was likely greased for 'crossing' the Central Bank$ter Cartel & non-submission to the z10nist agenda.

FYI, here's a video of the secret service agents being told to stand down...right before the lead started flying.

http://www.infowars.com/the-video-that-proves-a-conspiracy-to-kill-jfk/

 

[Charles Martel]

I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened that day.

But most of us realize there is more to it than the official version, and Oswald did not act alone.

 

[foreverfree]

I'm reluctant to give a definite no or a definite yes to this, mainly because this has never been a fiercely burning question for me.

But the OP obviously wants a majority result on this, so he only gave two choices. So I probably won't vote.

John

 

[Kaptain]

Jack rubenstein. Anybody who believes that this guy who just happens to come from less than 2 percent of the ethnic population killed Kennedy for love of country is a fool. That's all I need to know. Of course he died before trial.

 

[Matra2]

I believe in quite a few conspiracy theories but the JFK ones are all nonsense. The most common conspiracy theory about his murder is that it was carried out by right wing militarists. That's odd considering that JFK was a warmonger and a friend of the military industrial complex who came to power touting the non-existent missile gap.

 

[Charles Martel]

Jack rubenstein. Anybody who believes that this guy who just happens to come from less than 2 percent of the ethnic population killed Kennedy for love of country is a fool. That's all I need to know. Of course he died before trial.

My parents and I were watching the Oswald news conference live on TV, and I still remember their immediate reaction when Rubinstein shot Oswald. We all felt it must have been done to keep him quiet about others who were involved in the assassination.

 

[Bronk]

Jack rubenstein. Anybody who believes that this guy who just happens to come from less than 2 percent of the ethnic population killed Kennedy for love of country is a fool. That's all I need to know. Of course he died before trial.

I think the evidence shows that he did just that and I am far from a fool. I am also not a pro-government dupe or a Zionist-anything. I need to know much more than just the name Rubenstein.

I moved from conspiracy believer to seeing that the weight of the evidence is that Oswald shot JFK and seems to have done so all by his lonesome, in part, by studying the ludicrous theories propagated by the conspiracy loonies whose books and pamphlets are a joke.

I do not believe that we know the full nature of Oswald or all the facts of the assassination, but the bulk of the evidence supports the Warren Commission Report, rickety as it is.

 

[Kaptain]

I think the evidence shows that he did just that and I am far from a fool. I am also not a pro-government dupe or a Zionist-anything. I need to know much more than just the name Rubenstein.

I moved from conspiracy believer to seeing that the weight of the evidence is that Oswald shot JFK and seems to have done so all by his lonesome, in part, by studying the ludicrous theories propagated by the conspiracy loonies whose books and pamphlets are a joke.

I do not believe that we know the full nature of Oswald or all the facts of the assassination, but the bulk of the evidence supports the Warren Commission Report, rickety as it is.

So I guess what you are saying is that you will believe "rickety" evidence just because you disagree with "lunatic" theories? The sucky official story is ok bc joe blow wrote a pamphlet theory. Yah, that makes a lot of sense.

If the official Story was a conspiracy wouldn't The conspirators also put out a lot bs false theories just to chase simple minded people like you into believing the official story?

So tell me why jack rubenstein killed Oswald. In place of missing facts insert common sense. Did the Jewish gangster strip bar owner love Kennedy that much? That is the official story based on anything but fact.

 

[Bronk]

Why do conspiracists get so ((((ANGRY)))) when someone dare state that Oswald killed JFK and did it on his own? What kind of personal stake do you have in the believing in conspiracy? Conspiracists are no different from leftists who cling to their false beliefs long after they've been proven wrong.

Ruby killed Oswald because he was a nut who thought he'd be hailed as a hero. Why did Ruby not kill Oswald on Friday night in the Dallas police station when Oswald passed near him at least twice? How could Ruby have timed his shooting of Oswald in the basement? He was in the Western Union office just minutes before he shot Lee Harvey. What about those who saw Oswald fire from the Depository and those watching one floor below him who heard the shots, the recycling of the rifle and the shells hit the floor?

The only thing rickety about the Warren Commission Report is the way it was put together (the formatting) and that it was too hasty. Any conspiracy theory you want to pick falls apart like a cheap suit halfway through the its thesis.

 

[Bronk]

So I guess what you are saying is that you will believe "rickety" evidence just because you disagree with "lunatic" theories? The sucky official story is ok bc joe blow wrote a pamphlet theory. Yah, that makes a lot of sense.

If the official Story was a conspiracy wouldn't The conspirators also put out a lot bs false theories just to chase simple minded people like you into believing the official story?

So tell me why jack rubenstein killed Oswald. In place of missing facts insert common sense. Did the Jewish gangster strip bar owner love Kennedy that much? That is the official story based on anything but fact.

Common sense isn't so common and filling in the blanks with guesswork is a poor way to arrive at a conclusion.

Also, don't let your anti-Jewish sentiments blind you to the hard evidence. That Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK does not diminish your worldview in any way.

 

[sport historian]

Why do conspiracists get so ((((ANGRY)))) when someone dare state that Oswald killed JFK and did it on his own? What kind of personal stake do you have in the believing in conspiracy? Conspiracists are no different from leftists who cling to their false beliefs long after they've been proven wrong.

Ruby killed Oswald because he was a nut who thought he'd be hailed as a hero. Why did Ruby not kill Oswald on Friday night in the Dallas police station when Oswald passed near him at least twice? How could Ruby have timed his shooting of Oswald in the basement? He was in the Western Union office just minutes before he shot Lee Harvey. What about those who saw Oswald fire from the Depository and those watching one floor below him who heard the shots, the recycling of the rifle and the shells hit the floor?

The only thing rickety about the Warren Commission Report is the way it was put together (the formatting) and that it was too hasty. Any conspiracy theory you want to pick falls apart like a cheap suit halfway through the its thesis.

An excellent analysis.

JFK was killed by a communist, namely Oswald, who was about as far to the left as someone could be in 1963. The liberals at the time couldn't accept this and a few years later were insisting the "Far Right" led by the CIA did the deed.

Never mind the CIA has always been led by Ivy League liberal types.

Oswald, incidentally, was described once as a "fanatical supporter of integration." Like other leftist integration (now called "diversity") fans, Oswald made sure he lived in white neighborhoods.

The Dallas police publicly announced they would transfer Oswald to the county jail at 10 am that Sunday. Ruby was still at home at this hour. He went to the telegraph office to send money to one of his strippers when Oswald was finally brought to the basement of police headquarters, which just happened to be across the street.

The idiot cop guarding the entrance moved aside when the van was being positioned and Ruby walked into the basement. A few seconds later, Oswald was brought out (far behind schedule) and Ruby seized the chance to make himself a hero, which he thought he would be after killing Oswald.

 

[sport historian]

So I guess what you are saying is that you will believe "rickety" evidence just because you disagree with "lunatic" theories? The sucky official story is ok bc joe blow wrote a pamphlet theory. Yah, that makes a lot of sense.

If the official Story was a conspiracy wouldn't The conspirators also put out a lot bs false theories just to chase simple minded people like you into believing the official story?

So tell me why jack rubenstein killed Oswald. In place of missing facts insert common sense. Did the Jewish gangster strip bar owner love Kennedy that much? That is the official story based on anything but fact.

Ruby told a friend who visited him in jail that he shot Oswald to show "a Jew had guts."

 

[Freethinker]

Firearms experts say the first bullet that hit JFK was perfectly consistent with with the casings in the book depository, and with the rifle and with the angle that Oswald would have been shooting from.

The second shot missed, which makes sense considering Oswald wasn't a highly skilled marksman, based on his military record.

However, they say the third shot - the shot that that killed JFK and blew a large hole in his skull - must have been a different kind of bullet, one that would "explode on impact". This kind of bullet is inconsistent with the empty casings in the depository, and must have been fired from a very different angle than the location of Oswald in the book depository.

One thing that always stood out to me was the rifle Oswald used. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was an old WWI rifle. I've seen and read a bunch of recreations of the shot, matching distance and angle, taken by expert marksmen and they had trouble hitting the target. Keep in mind the target was stationary and not moving like JFK was. Also, like you say Oswald was no expert marksman. Now I will concede that it is fully possible that Oswald did pull it off but if he did, he was extremely lucky in doing so.

When I look at the positive things Kennedy was trying to do and the long list of enemies he created (Federal Reserve, CIA and Dulles, organized crime syndicates, Israel, etc), I find it highly improbable that Oswald acted alone. That said, I plan to read alot more on the subject in the coming years as I believe that the assassination was a key turning point in this country's decline.

 

[Bronk]

One thing that always stood out to me was the rifle Oswald used. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was an old WWI rifle. I've seen and read a bunch of recreations of the shot, matching distance and angle, taken by expert marksmen and they had trouble hitting the target. Keep in mind the target was stationary and not moving like JFK was. Also, like you say Oswald was no expert marksman. Now I will concede that it is fully possible that Oswald did pull it off but if he did, he was extremely lucky in doing so.

When I look at the positive things Kennedy was trying to do and the long list of enemies he created (Federal Reserve, CIA and Dulles, organized crime syndicates, Israel, etc), I find it highly improbable that Oswald acted alone. That said, I plan to read alot more on the subject in the coming years as I believe that the assassination was a key turning point in this country's decline.

I will correct you on the rifle. It was not a WWI Mannlicher Carcano but a WWII version made in 1940.

Many, many people have pulled off Oswald's feat in re-enactments. Not counting the Warren Commission's own re-enactment, there are at least a dozen replications performed by television shows in the US and abroad that I can think of off the top of my head.

What positive things was JFK trying to do? None of those you mentioned, except maybe (MAYBE) Dulles, were enemies of JFK. Kennedy used the CIA liberally overseas. Organized crime may have hated his brother but they hated a raft of government officials that went after them a lot harder like Estes Kefauver. JFK was no threat to the Federal Reserve at all. Nor was he going to pull troops out of Vietnam. Ike had 6,000 advisors in SE Asia and JFK jacked that up to 16,000 in less than three years. Does anyone truly believe that the man who founded the Green Berets -- the foremost ANTI-INSURGENT military force in the world (Founded by a man that was a staunch supporter of Joe McCarthy, I might add) was actually going to pull out of Vietnam at the height of the Cold War?

JFK was no white knight anti-establishment figure. He was as much an insider and a defender of the status quo as anyone in D.C.

 

[Charles Martel]

When I look at the positive things Kennedy was trying to do and the long list of enemies he created (Federal Reserve, CIA and Dulles, organized crime syndicates, Israel, etc), I find it highly improbable that Oswald acted alone.

The CIA had nothing to do with it and were not his enemies. His enemies were those who ran the Federal Reserve, some organized crime bosses (such as Meyer Lansky, a fanatical Zionist).

That said, I plan to read alot more on the subject in the coming years as I believe that the assassination was a key turning point in this country's decline.

It was indeed the turning point in American history. The supremacists' previous attempt to kill an American president failed. They became bolder after killing JFK and getting away with it.

There are many misleading conspiracy theories, created by the supremacists to confuse and distract us from the truth (example: the movie JFK).

The book Final Judgement is the only one you should read, it will clarify everything.

 

[sport historian]

I will correct you on the rifle. It was not a WWI Mannlicher Carcano but a WWII version made in 1940.

Many, many people have pulled off Oswald's feat in re-enactments. Not counting the Warren Commission's own re-enactment, there are at least a dozen replications performed by television shows in the US and abroad that I can think of off the top of my head.

What positive things was JFK trying to do? None of those you mentioned, except maybe (MAYBE) Dulles, were enemies of JFK. Kennedy used the CIA liberally overseas. Organized crime may have hated his brother but they hated a raft of government officials that went after them a lot harder like Estes Kefauver. JFK was no threat to the Federal Reserve at all. Nor was he going to pull troops out of Vietnam. Ike had 6,000 advisors in SE Asia and JFK jacked that up to 16,000 in less than three years. Does anyone truly believe that the man who founded the Green Berets -- the foremost ANTI-INSURGENT military force in the world (Founded by a man that was a staunch supporter of Joe McCarthy, I might add) was actually going to pull out of Vietnam at the height of the Cold War?

JFK was no white knight anti-establishment figure. He was as much an insider and a defender of the status quo as anyone in D.C.

Absolutely. By 1963 JFK was as solid a member of the liberal establishment as anyone.

Yes, Oswald's feat has been duplicated many times, by CBS back in the 1960's for instance. It was filmed by the way.

A friend of mine visited Dealey Plaza years ago and went to where Oswald fired the shots. He was struck by how close the shooter was to the motorcade and that it wasn't a difficult shot.

"Oswald was right on top of him," my friend told me.

 

[Bronk]

Absolutely. By 1963 JFK was as solid a member of the liberal establishment as anyone.

Yes, Oswald's feat has been duplicated many times, by CBS back in the 1960's for instance. It was filmed by the way.

A friend of mine visited Dealey Plaza years ago and went to where Oswald fired the shots. He was struck by how close the shooter was to the motorcade and that it wasn't a difficult shot.

"Oswald was right on top of him," my friend told me.

Yes, I've been to the Sixth Floor Museum and though you can't get to the actual window Oswald shot from (the sniper's nest is behind glass) he was right on top of JFK's car. Like Oswald, I was a Marine and Oswald used his USMC training to wait until the car turned the corner and he was behind the target. It was a classic ambush.

As for the movie JFK, can anyone tell us what the motive was for assassinating the president in that film? Although Jim Garrison was the hero of the movie, Garrison's actual theory's were discarded wholesale by Oliver Stone because Garrison had about eight or nine ideas, all of which were nutty (including his idea that the assassination was a homosexual "thrill killing").

If Caste posters are going to accept Oliver Stone as the authority on the JFK assassination, they can't very well say the Warren Commission Report is the work of hucksters!

 

[sport historian]

Yes, I've been to the Sixth Floor Museum and though you can't get to the actual window Oswald shot from (the sniper's nest is behind glass) he was right on top of JFK's car. Like Oswald, I was a Marine and Oswald used his USMC training to wait until the car turned the corner and he was behind the target. It was a classic ambush.

As for the movie JFK, can anyone tell us what the motive was for assassinating the president in that film? Although Jim Garrison was the hero of the movie, Garrison's actual theory's were discarded wholesale by Oliver Stone because Garrison had about eight or nine ideas, all of which were nutty (including his idea that the assassination was a homosexual "thrill killing").

If Caste posters are going to accept Oliver Stone as the authority on the JFK assassination, they can't very well say the Warren Commission Report is the work of hucksters!

The motive, according to Oliver Stone is that JFK was going to pull out of Vietnam, for which the Military Industrial Complex created an elaborate conspiracy to kill him.

Stone started out with Ferrie, Bannister, Shaw, and anti-Castro types in New Orleans. These are mostly a low-level bunch.

He used Donald Sutherland's character "X," to link them to the CIA-Industrial Complex in Washington D.C. This is the funniest part of the film.

If someone like "X" had testified at Clay Shaw's trial, he would have been slaughtered on cross-examination and laughed off the stand.