European Leagues' White-Black Ratios: 2012-2013

[Rebajlo]

real madrid is not playing with the best players, barcelona either, so i think that it's an unimportant match for both coatches

These "Super Cup" matches are a complete waste of time. In my opinion, they should all be scrapped...

 

[Arend]

These "Super Cup" matches are a complete waste of time. In my opinion, they should all be scrapped...

“Super Cup†matches only exist to generate more income or to exploit “new markets†in Asia or elsewhere. The modern German “Super Cup†was established in 2010, after the “original†Super Cup was scrapped in 1996 because basically nobody cared about it, the final of the Italian Supercoppa between Juventus and Napoli was played in Beijing.
In Germany at least the real fans stay away from these games.As much as I would like to see these completions scrapped, I don’t think that this is going to happen, simply because there is too much money at stake for the clubs, television, sponsors and the football associations. More games always mean more money, just like in the “Champions Leagueâ€, where Teams play that finished third or even forth in their National League.

 

[frederic38]

“Super Cupâ€￾ matches only exist to generate more income or to exploit “new marketsâ€￾ in Asia or elsewhere.

that's probably why the 3 arab/muslim players of real madrid all played (benzema, ozil, khedira)
there are so many "clasico" each year between real madrid and barcelona that it gets ridiculous

 

[Arend]

Borussia Dortmund - SV Werder Bremen 2:1

BVB:

Started: 10 Whites (7 Germans), 1 Turk
Finished: 11 Whites (7 Germans)

Bremen:

Started: 9 Whites (3 Germans), 2 Blacks
Finished: 9 Whites (4 Germans), 2 blacks

 

[frederic38]

Borussia Dortmund - SV Werder Bremen 2:1

BVB:

Started: 10 Whites (7 Germans), 1 Turk
Finished: 11 Whites (7 Germans)

Bremen:

Started: 9 Whites (3 Germans), 2 Blacks
Finished: 9 Whites (4 Germans), 2 blacks

that's a pretty important win i guess, dortmund is still strong and they might retain their title
and that's a team with 5 non-whites in the whole roster, in addition to starting the most whites in europe possibly (stoke in england started 11 whites but they didn't finish with 11 whites)


dortmund's goals were scored by 2 young germans, reuss and gotze, hopefully they can take khedira's place in the national team and cacau's place too (not sure if khedira will be titular this season for real madrid)
bremen's goal was scored by the "czech" fullback selassie

arend, i don't know if you follow the dutch league but i would like to see a break down, not too many teams but just a breakdown of a big team, or a team that starts a lot of non-whites
i'm interested in this because you said that the dutch league was possibly blacker than the french league

 

[Arend]

that's a pretty important win i guess, dortmund is still strong and they might retain their title
and that's a team with 5 non-whites in the whole roster, in addition to starting the most whites in europe possibly (stoke in england started 11 whites but they didn't finish with 11 whites)


dortmund's goals were scored by 2 young germans, reuss and gotze, hopefully they can take khedira's place in the national team and cacau's place too (not sure if khedira will be titular this season for real madrid)
bremen's goal was scored by the "czech" fullback selassie

arend, i don't know if you follow the dutch league but i would like to see a break down, not too many teams but just a breakdown of a big team, or a team that starts a lot of non-whites
i'm interested in this because you said that the dutch league was possibly blacker than the french league

I have stopped following the Eredivisie a few years ago because the League sucked at so many levels (The main reason was of course that they were too many foreign players). PSV, a top team in the Eredivisie has 50% whites and 50 % blacks, other teams have maybe the same percentage of whites while the other 50% account for Blacks, Muslims and North Africans. The situation improved the last few years, but is still pretty bad. By the way Götze plays as an attacking midfielder and Reus as a striker or winger, Khedira as a defensive midfielder so there is no possibility of Götze or Reus replacing Khedira

Greuther Fürth - Bayern München 0:3
Fürth:
Started: 8 Whites (7 Germans), 1 Turk, 1 Albanian, 1 Black
Finished: 9 Whites (8 Germans), 1 Turk, 1 Albanian
Bayern:
Started: 7 Whites (5 Germans), 3 Blacks, 1 Albanian
Finished: 8 Whites (6 Germans), 3 Blacks

Borussia M'gladbach - 1899 Hoffenheim 2:1
Gladbach:
Started: 9 Whites (4 Germans), 1 Albanian, 1 Mestizo
Finished: 8 Whites (4 Germans) 1 Albanian, 2 Mestizos
Hoffenheim:
Started: 7 Whites (4 Germans), 1 Turk, 1 Mestizo, 2 Mulatos
Finished: 7 Whites (4 Germans), 1 Muslim, 1 Asian, 2 Mulatos

 

[frederic38]

By the way Götze plays as an attacking midfielder and Reus as a striker or winger, Khedira as a defensive midfielder so there is no possibility of Götze or Reus replacing Khedira

yes, you're right
so gotze doesn't play because of ozil
ozil should play for turkey, and everyone would be happy

 

[Zeus]

Well Greek football and Greek Super League is not as significant as the Spanish, Italian, English or German, but it still ranks in the 10th position of UEFA (from 45 something in total) and the Greek national football team at the 11th Fifa position, so it's not that bad either.

I would like to mention that last Sunday, in the closing match of the first round, Panionios-Aris game, ALL 25 PLAYERS who played in the field for both team, were not only white, but also Greek, something which ODDLY was celebrated and mentioned by most media. Last time that happened was back in 15th of November of 1989, so you realize the significance of the specific match, by the gap of years that happened for the last time.

Olympiakos F.C. will represent Greece in CL and Panathinaikos in EU, two more teams play to qualify in EU, we will know tomorrow.

The goals and ambitions of the Greek Football League is very specific and openly admitted:

A) Don't end up like French, English, Italian and other leagues where most players (n some over 50%) are foreigners and build a nearly fully Greek championship.

B) Exporting Greek talented players ala Kyriakos Papadopoulos, Samaras, Ninis, Papastathopoulos etc in some of the best European Leagues.

C) The biggest goal of all, to build a very strong national Greek team, where the pool of talent will be way wider and deeper than in the 80's and 90's, when the " foreign player" madness had reached ultimate heights in Greece. I think we are in a good track on this one. Won Euro 2004, participated in Euro 2008 and 2012, Confederations Cup 2005 and
World Cup of 2010, tons of medals and finals in youth ages on European level, prove it.

Greek Super League is like 87% Greek right now (over 93-94% white i would guess), the bet is to have an over 95% Greek League by 2015-2016 and the youngest Championship in all Europe, we will see how this goes. Facts is that we export more players now than ever before and this "program" has not even functioned yet, it's still in a very premature stage. Maybe Greece slowly but surely becomes a powerhouse of football in national team level and a country which will export a lot of good players to the big Euro Leagues? We shall see.

I would like Frederic's opinion on this one.

 

[frederic38]

zeus, the italian league is disappearing, the spanish league seems to follow the same path
some other leagues are likely to become more powerfull because of this: some exotic leagues like china, or brazil, or relatively unknown european leagues
the german league has been on the rise for a long time, and their league should be a role-model for any league in the world as far as foreign players and football-business goes
then there are the russian league and the french league, where a lot of money was invested, sometimes not in a good way
for example for the first time in history this year, the russian league is broadcasted in france (on a minor pay channel, but it would have been unthinkable 10 years ago to watch the russian league on french TV)

by the way if giles wants to post about the russian league i would like to hear about it, they have some good teams rising, like zenith, and some that i don't like for example anzhi


russia is becoming a big name in the international competitions

greece should be a big team after their recent results, but the disgusting way in which they were treated at the latest euro champs shows that they are not respected yet

i don't know about the greek league, but it's good to hear that they have a healthy program, because since they are part of the european union, technically they could end up like the french league
the success of the senior national team have been followed by success in youth competitions, which is a very good sign, greece won't disappear and whatever they are doing, it works

UEFA need to respect these relatively young football nations because there is no way that italy was the 2nd best european team last year, yet they reached the final
you could see before the tournament that a team like italy had nothing special and would get annihilated by the other teams
same for germany (except that germany seems to have a bright future unlike italy, with many young prospects)
the same happened to uruguay in 2010, they weren't respected enough

we'll see at the next world cup if things have changed in the way FIFA acts towards teams like uruguay, greece, ukraine ect (if they manage to qualify)

platini changed some things in the champions league, so today teams from smaller federations have a chance to reach the champions league, so it should help greece and the other smaller leagues
in some cases it's disgusting because they field 6 brazilians or a lot of africans, but it was not the case with olympiakos last year

 

[frederic38]

i mentioned that malaga was in a bad situation financially and that they were losing all their players, but it seems to be better now that they qualified for champions league

they signed roque santa cruz and saviola, 2 excellent players, white south americans
i think that they could take valencia's 3rd place in the spanish league and do pretty well in champions league this year
they have 2 players from cameroon in the roster (a goalkeper, but he's second choice to an argentine, and a 16 years old striker)
then a "portuguese" of capeverdian descent, and 2 brazilians
the rest is white
they even have a white chilean of basque descent (the coach, manuel pellegrini, is from chile too)

 

[Matra2]

i mentioned that malaga was in a bad situation financially

What happened to their super rich Arab owners? They were supposed to be the next big thing.

 

[frederic38]

What happened to their super rich Arab owners? They were supposed to be the next big thing.

nobody knows, he disappeared and doesn't want to invest anymore

 

[Arend]

Some Games from last weekend Serie A/Bundesliga:

FC Bayern München - Vfb Stuttgart 6:1
0:1 Harnik, 1:1 Müller, 2:1 Kroos, 3:1 Gustavo, 4:1 Mandzukic, 5:1 Müller, 6:1 Schweinsteiger

Bayern: Started: 7 Whites, 1 Muslim, 3 Blacks
Finished: 7 Whites, 1 Muslim, 3 Blacks

Stuttgart: Started: 5 Whites, 2 Asian, 1 Mestizo, 1 Muslim, 1 Black, 1 Turk
Finished: 3 Whites, 1 Asian, 1 Mestizo, 2 Turks, 3 Blacks*

*Stuttgart finished with only 10 men due to a red card recieved by Vedad IbiÅ¡ević. Bayern again with the black central defence consisting of Boateng and Dante, and a great from Thomas Müller and Toni Kross against a very weak VFB.

Udinese Calcio - Juventus 1:4
0:1 Vidal, 0:2 Vucinic, 0:3 Giovinco, 0:4 Giovinco, 1:4 Lazzari

Udinese: Started: 7 Whites, 1 North African, 2 Mestizos, 1 Black
Finished: 5 Whites, 1 North African, 2 Mestizos, 2 Blacks*
*Red Card for Brkic

Juventus: Started: 9 Whites, 1 Black, 1 Mestizo
Finished: 9 Whites, 1 Black, 1 Mestizo

Inter - Roma 1:3
0:1 Florenzi, 1:1 Cassano, 1:2 Osvaldo, 1:3 Marquinho

Inter: Started: 7 Whites, 1 Asian, 2 Blacks, 1 Mestizo
Finished: 8 Whites, 1 Asian, 1 Black, 1 Mestizo

Roma: Started: 9 Whites, 2 Mestizos
Finished: 8 Whites, 2 Mestizos*

*Second yellow card for Osvaldo

 

[frederic38]

if bayern munchen keeps playing with black central defenders they won't be dangerous in champions league
they were at home, against a bad team, yet stuttgart scored first....
try this against real madrid, barcelona, chelsea, manchester city ect and you will have no chance

 

[Giles Daldanus]

the way the french player bertrand robert is not white, he has a french name because he's from one of those islands that france explored (reunion in his case)
people from "la reunion" look like this, for example see jeremy morel who plays for marseille
i decided to look him up because i suspected that he would be related to laurent robert, who played for newcastle, and he's his brother (i'll add him to my list of related french players

@Frederic, thanks, yes, I didn’t pay attention to his facial features and thought he was just a tanned white. I think that Morel could pass for a Southern Italian or as a local in some of the Balkan countries. The name sounds very French to me, maybe because my first association is with Maximilien Morrel from “The Count of Monte Cristo”

see that mellberg the swede does no longer play for olympiakos, it might hurt them, he was a world class player
i saw olympiakos vs marseille in champions league last season, olympiakos looked solid but the strikers were relatively toothless (it was mirallas who used to be a mediocre ligue 1 player)
these clubs that can't have the best foreign players should look in scandinavia or eastern europe instead of looking in the french league, some of these players are very good but they are underrated because they are not from a known nation
look at what miroslav stoch is doing in turkey for example

@Frederic, true, Mellberg could be a huge loss for them and will be difficult to replace, he was also very popular with the fans and was the type of player who was able to “rally the troop”s. You are right, I am surprised that the managers of the clubs from Balkan countries don’t sign that many Eastern European players (there are probably more Eastern Europeans and Scandinavians plying their trade in the Turkish League than in all the Balkan countries’ championships put together).

Man wow, thank you very much! Panathinaikos improved a lot, it became the blackest team i ever remember in Greek football some years ago. They had like 10 blacks in a roster of 23, I think in 2008-2009 season or so. Again, great job bro thanks

@Zeus, you are very welcome, I like looking up players, it’s interesting how the compositions of teams can sometimes change almost overnight…it’s good to hear that the Greek football authorities are now prioritizing local player development and are displaying ambition when it comes to the Greece national team.

The Northern Irish player would be goalie Roy Carroll. He was involved in a famous "non-goal" controversy. Here's why goal-line technology is necessary

@Matra, thanks for the clip, very difficult for the referee to make the correct call. The problem is that even if he were to see a replay on the screen, under the current rules he would not be allowed to reverse his decision (some experts blamed the 2006 World Cup final fourth official for instructing Horacio Elizondo to send off Zidane – becase he was alleged to have viewed television replays of the headbutt incident on a monitor positioned close to the officials' touchline). Carroll has excellent reflexes, but is prone to mental lapses at times.

poor malaga, last year they qualified for champions league but now they have big financial problems

Something worse happened to Partizan Minsk…they finished in first place in the Belarusian First League and were promoted to the top division of Belarus. Shortly before the start of the new season the main Lithuanian investor (Vladimirs Romanovs) suddenly decided to leave the club and Partizan were forced to cancel their participation in the championship due to a lack of funding…I feel for the supporters, as the team from Minsk is now playing in the fourth tier of Belarusian football.

by the way if giles wants to post about the russian league i would like to hear about it, they have some good teams rising, like zenith, and some that i don't like for example anzhi
russia is becoming a big name in the international competitions

I would say that the Russian League is at the crossroads…it can go the way of the “big five” leagues in the sense of partly compromising its identity or make a U-turn and manage to preserve its authenticity. If the decision were up to the fans, I would say that the latter would be more likely to happen, as nationalism is quite strong in this part of the world. However, it’s actually difficult to find a top division team that starts close to 90% Russians. Some teams like Amkar Perm and FC Krasnodar have almost exclusively Russians and other Eastern Europeans on their rosters, so to an extent they do retain their identities. Pan-Slavism appeals to many Russians. Ironically (despite these ethnicities’ virulent nationalism - as demonstrated by the fierce struggles against the Russian central authorities), the teams from the semi-autonomous Muslim regions (republics) like Dagestan and Chechnya (Anzhi Makhachkala and Terek Grozny) have many foreign footballers and do not cater to the needs of local players – ethnic Russians and ethnic Chechens/Dagestanis are very few. A number of teams like CSKA Moscow and Lokomotiv Moscow are not that different from Premier League or Serie A clubs. One of the issues in Russia is that there aren’t enough local coaches and there is also a lack of emphasis on tactics (though the mentality is changing in that respect). Russia has produced and continues to develop many talented players, but historically its national team pedigree has not reflected that…I think that their national side will continue to improve, but I am not convinced that Russian teams will be able to dominate the French or English ones any time soon.

 

[frederic38]

@Frederic, thanks, yes, I didn’t pay attention to his facial features and thought he was just a tanned white. I think that Morel could pass for a Southern Italian or as a local in some of the Balkan countries. The name sounds very French to me, maybe because my first association is with Maximilien Morrel from “The Count of Monte Cristoâ€￾

you're right, it's totally a french name, like robert (the other player from reunion) because we gave them french names when we took over the place
morel comes from "moor" and this name was given in france to people that acted like an arab or were tan (moor=arab)

 

[Europe]

I didn't want to start a new thread for this.

England u21's beat Norway 1-0. England had 9 whites starters including both forwards. One of whom scored.

Thomas Ince, the son a Paul Ince, also played. He is listed as a winger.

Norway had an Indian and it looked like an Arab.

 

[Matra2]

Norway had an Indian and it looked like an Arab.

An Indian? Off the top of my head I can't think of any top flight players from the Indian subcontinent (ie India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka). Sunderland's Michael Chopra might have been half-Indian but that's pretty much it.

 

[frederic38]

An Indian? Off the top of my head I can't think of any top flight players from the Indian subcontinent (ie India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka). Sunderland's Michael Chopra might have been half-Indian but that's pretty much it.

in france we had vikash dhorasoo
he was one of the biggest jokes in french football
i think that the country where the most indians play football is netherlands ( i know the narsingh brothers although they are also black, and aron winter, former token colored player from lazio)
also like rebajlo said yesterday there is andorra's most capped player who's indian :alien:

 

[Matra2]

Pure Indians/Pakistanis are virtually, if not totally, non-existentin European football. They only seem to be good at cricket, badminton, and field hockey.

 

[Arend]

in france we had vikash dhorasoo
he was one of the biggest jokes in french football
i think that the country where the most indians play football is netherlands ( i know the narsingh brothers although they are also black, and aron winter, former token colored player from lazio)
also like rebajlo said yesterday there is andorra's most capped player who's indian :alien:

Those dutch „Indians“ come from Suriname and are called Hindoestanen in the Netherlands. After Slavery was abolished in Suriname, the Dutch government feared that many former slaves would leave the plantations, so they signed a contract with British government to recruit workforce from India.

 

[frederic38]

an interesting story about zenith saint petersbourg, an almost all-white team until they bought hulk and witsel:

http://rt.com/sport/football/hulk-witsel-denisov-zenit-772/

Russian internationals Igor Denisov and Aleksandr Kerzhakov have been sent to train with Zenit’s reservists due to their dissatisfaction with the club’s 80-million-euro purchase of Hulk and Axel Witsel.

*Zenit haven’t won any of their three games since the very expensive rookies arrived in St. Petersburg, including a 3-0 hammering at the hands Malaga in the Champions League mid-week.

The irreplaceable defensive midfielder, who recently became the captain of the Russian national squad, didn’t appear on the pitch in Samara, telling the coach that he doesn’t feel capable of helping the team.

“Igor Denisov has been demanding a pay rise since spring despite having one of the biggest salaries in the club and in the whole Russian Premier League,â€￾ an unnamed source within Zenit told Fontanka.ru. “He thinks he’s worth more, but those claims don’t attract sympathy from the club’s administration.â€￾

Zenit’s purchase of foreign stars – instead of increasing his salary – became the last straw for Denisov, whose contract in St. Pete expires in three years.
The 28-year-old’s demands are backed by the other Russian internationals within the team – Aleksandr Kerzhakov, Vladimir Bystrov, Aleksandr Anyukov and Roman Shirokov.

“One can’t afford to throw away such players like Denisov,â€￾ Shirokov told Sport-Express newspaper.

 

[frederic38]

about zenith and their new colored players again:
denisov said that he didn't understand why hulk and witsel were paid that much
he said that he would understand if messi or iniesta would be payed this much because they are the best in the world (add by me: and they are white )
but he said that huk and witsel might not be a lot more better than the current russian players in zenith

personally i always liked hulk but witsel is nothing
it's a shame what is happening in zenith, they are destroying the club

 

[frederic38]

real madrid:

6 whites, 3 arab/turks, 2 brazilains (pepe and marcelo)

barcelona:

9 whites (7 spanish players) 2 brazilians

 

[bongiovani]

I think the Barcelona messi the best of today, but the left guardiola is a good coach.