Early look at 2011 NFL draft
- Thread starter whiteathlete33
- Start date
I find it interesting that right after itturns outthat Blaine Gabbert scored a phenomenal 42 on his Wonderlic, that Pat Kirwan of NFL.com writes that Gabbert's "completion rate on throws beyond 15 yards is down near 30 percent," a stunningly low, Kordell Stewart like accuracy rate. I didn't follow Missouri much last season; isKirwan's stat close to being on the markor is it thetypical Caste-esetactic of counteringa White athlete's strong positiveswith a concocted or overblown negative?
Edited by: Don Wassall
Edited by: Don Wassall
Mighty Joe
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 78
White players have been putting up some great workouts from the various pro days,proving their as athletic as any in the draft.Dane Sanzenbacher a guy seen as too slow by some run a 4.48 on his pro day and with his blazing agility times from the combine is probably the most athletic reciever in the draft and should be a 2nd or 3rd round pick but probably wont.THe Browns fans would love Cleveland to draft him,they seem to be rooting for their team to draft White players,another guy they love is Mathews.Ross Homan another guy scouts discredited as being slow run in the 4.60 range.Dexter Larrimore an underrated DT had a good workout too running 5.16 and putting up 32 reps on the bench.
TE Mike McNeil run a 4.61,a time that should get him drafted.Gabe Miller a DE/OLB run a 4.6 and put up 33 reps on the bench numbers that would have ranked among the best for his position at the combine.He could be another unheralded gem like Zomb
LB Jason Werner is another great prospect,he has the size and athleticism scouts supposedly crave running two times in the 4.4 range.He should have been invited to the combine.Division 11 OLB Marc Schiechl a guy the Packers and Broncos are high on had a freakish workout running a 4.64 40 at 250,broad jumping 10 feet 5 and benching 38 reps.Edited by: Mighty Joe
TE Mike McNeil run a 4.61,a time that should get him drafted.Gabe Miller a DE/OLB run a 4.6 and put up 33 reps on the bench numbers that would have ranked among the best for his position at the combine.He could be another unheralded gem like Zomb
LB Jason Werner is another great prospect,he has the size and athleticism scouts supposedly crave running two times in the 4.4 range.He should have been invited to the combine.Division 11 OLB Marc Schiechl a guy the Packers and Broncos are high on had a freakish workout running a 4.64 40 at 250,broad jumping 10 feet 5 and benching 38 reps.Edited by: Mighty Joe 
TwentyTwo said:
I think Chris Prosinski will be a better NFL safety than Tyler Sash (if they both got fair chances). I think Sash can be an above average safety in the NFL but Prosinski looks to be better even though he doesn't have the interceptions. The front 7 wasn't as good as Iowa's which could be the reason but he did have a ton of pass deflections. I hope he gets a real shot. Hopefully his pro day has elevated his stock. I remember seeing Cody Grimm on film and thinking he would be one of the better dbs from that draft year, he fell to the 7th but wound up being a good starter in his first year and looks like he will only get better. He showed a lot of potential in just 9 games started with 57 tackles and 2 interceptions which would be over 100 tackles for a regular season and 3 interceptions, comparable to guys like Eric Berry and Earl Thomas and their rookie seasons. Hopefully he can come back just as strong after his injury. That is if Raheem sticks with him, Ronde Barber did come out and say the best players on the Bucs in terms of football ability were Talib and Grimm.
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa3Sk2JyETc[/TUBE]
As far as Blaine Gabbert, he has had some accuracy issues but has all the measurables Josh Freeman had, only he is way smarter and much faster. Plus I have heard that Missouri has terrible coaching and didn't put him in the best situation. He has shown tons of dedication working on his game and watching film. He has been working with a pro style qb coach his entire college career working on dropping back, nfl throws, on his off time and was the number 1 pro style qb coming out of high school.
I think it is ridiculous that the combine analysis of guys like Kerrigan and Brooks Reed haven't changed since they actually performed. They both read something like "doesn't have the athleticism, not the kind of guy that will dominate or turn heads at the combine", both were top performers and it put Reed on the map as potential first rounder. Reed got his 10 yard split down to 1.54 at his pro day, .01 difference from the 1.53 by Mark Ingram that everyone drools over.
Tommy Connors has the skills to play on Sunday but he hasn't been happy with his 40 which scouts will put a lot of emphasis on for a White player, especially one from a smaller school. Ive seen him play and he is just miles above his competition, I am trying to get the footage from the Tulane game, he was unstoppable for most of it, he left the game for a little while with a minor injury but played through it. He would be better than someone like Roman Harper, the in the box type safety that blitzes alot, actually made the pro bowl even though he cost the Saints the Seattle game and Sam Bradford was able to catch up with him.
Ricky Elmore was invited, he came in weighing less than ideal at 255 and ran around a 4.8. If here black they would say it doesn't matter and for people to watch the film. Instead hes going to fall. I wouldn't be surprised if winds up like Rob Ninkovich who is around the same weight and was said to be too small to be a DE in the 4-3 and too slow to be an olb in the 3-4. He was drafted in the 5th (where Elmore is projected to go) and bounced around for a while and finally got a real shot with the Patriots and had 63 tackles and 4 sacks last year in 10 starts.
Nice to see McKnight put himself on the map with that pro day. I wish they would have just said his actual time or in the 4.4 range.
The question is why Chase Reynolds wasn't invited yet Taiwan Jones was, both from the same conference. Taiwan didn't participate in any of the drills so it was a waste. They both will be at Hawaii's pro day.Edited by: dwid
heres another White safety
Colin Jones TCU
Final Results for S Colin Jones from TCU's Pro Day (and where he would've placed among DBs at the Combine, including corners):
H:5'11"
W: 202
40yd: 4.34
225 Bench: 20 (T-9th)
Vertical: 37.5 (T-8th)
Broad Jump: 10'4" (T-10th)
3-Cone: 6.54s (3rd)
20yd Shuttle: 4.05s (6th)
60yd Shuttle: 11.03 (5th)
Thats 2 athletic White guys running in the 4.3 range, but they play safety when none of the guys at the combine could go sub 4.5 (only 3 ran in the 4.5 range), amazing isnt it? No one knows whether these guys would run those times electronically but we'll never know because they weren't invited. They would definitely time in the 4.4 range at the combine if they didn't manage to get in the 4.3 range. Only 2 cornerbacks ran sub 4.4 in this year's draft.
Jones was used a lot like Grimm in college, close to the line of scrimmage, kind of a hybrid type, had 80 tackles last season, 3 sacks and an interception. A shame him and Chris Prosinski never got a shot to play corner. I guess its lack of that magical "hip wiggle" that can't be measured.Edited by: dwid
Colin Jones TCU
Final Results for S Colin Jones from TCU's Pro Day (and where he would've placed among DBs at the Combine, including corners):
H:5'11"
W: 202
40yd: 4.34
225 Bench: 20 (T-9th)
Vertical: 37.5 (T-8th)
Broad Jump: 10'4" (T-10th)
3-Cone: 6.54s (3rd)
20yd Shuttle: 4.05s (6th)
60yd Shuttle: 11.03 (5th)
Thats 2 athletic White guys running in the 4.3 range, but they play safety when none of the guys at the combine could go sub 4.5 (only 3 ran in the 4.5 range), amazing isnt it? No one knows whether these guys would run those times electronically but we'll never know because they weren't invited. They would definitely time in the 4.4 range at the combine if they didn't manage to get in the 4.3 range. Only 2 cornerbacks ran sub 4.4 in this year's draft.
Jones was used a lot like Grimm in college, close to the line of scrimmage, kind of a hybrid type, had 80 tackles last season, 3 sacks and an interception. A shame him and Chris Prosinski never got a shot to play corner. I guess its lack of that magical "hip wiggle" that can't be measured.Edited by: dwid
TheAnimal
Guru
Don Wassall said:
Kirwin is most definitely off the mark unless he confused sCam with Blaine somehow. Gabbert is accurate in the short, intermediate and deep game. They're throwing him under the bus because they want the inferior first rounder to be the first QB off the board.
I've watched alot of Gabbert and his game is fine, the only thing he needs is some strong coaching as well as experience staying calm in the pocket, he wasn't very trusting of his line in College. Everything else is fine. He can make all of the throws, he's accurate, has good field awareness, GREAT work ethic and discipline, his release is lightening fast, solid mechanics, everything you want in a QB.
Mines nose tackle Blaine Sumner (WHITE) wowed the weight room crowd by bench-pressing 225 pounds a whopping 52</font> times</font>.
The 6-foot-2, 330-pound Sumner's total eclipsed the NFL combine record
of 49 set by former Oregon State defensive tackle Stephen Paea,
according to NFL.com.
Small school guy, Colorado School of Mines
Vertical: 33.5"Â
Broad: 8'6"Â
40 yard: 5.15
20 yard split: 2.94
10 yard split: 1.71
Short Shuttle: 4.50
L Drill: 7.49
All this in addition to a 1,000 lb squat
Thats pretty good for a guy that is 330 pounds, much better than someone like Mount Cody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CObtOq1MRA&feature=related
Very productive 4-year-starter, small-school pure nose.
'07: 33 total tackles, 7 TFLs, 6.5 sacks.
'08: 32-4.5-1.5
'09: 33-7-4, along with 2 hurries and a FR.
'10: 32-6.5-.5, along with 2 FRs, and 3 blocked kicks.
Also ran the ball occasionally in SY or goal line. Career rushing mark: 26-38-3.
and I looked up his picture, he is white, just whatever you do, don't google his name on images. Just look it up on the school's website. Trust me. There is another Blaine Sumner that pops up.
This guy should be getting more attention, not only does he have this freakish physical skillset, Colorado School of Mines is a very tough school offering only engineering degrees, he made the Dean's list while getting Bachelors and Masters. If he were black his name would be everywhere.
Edited by: snow
The 6-foot-2, 330-pound Sumner's total eclipsed the NFL combine record
of 49 set by former Oregon State defensive tackle Stephen Paea,
according to NFL.com.
Small school guy, Colorado School of Mines
Vertical: 33.5"Â
Broad: 8'6"Â
40 yard: 5.15
20 yard split: 2.94
10 yard split: 1.71
Short Shuttle: 4.50
L Drill: 7.49
All this in addition to a 1,000 lb squat
Thats pretty good for a guy that is 330 pounds, much better than someone like Mount Cody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CObtOq1MRA&feature=related
Very productive 4-year-starter, small-school pure nose.
'07: 33 total tackles, 7 TFLs, 6.5 sacks.
'08: 32-4.5-1.5
'09: 33-7-4, along with 2 hurries and a FR.
'10: 32-6.5-.5, along with 2 FRs, and 3 blocked kicks.
Also ran the ball occasionally in SY or goal line. Career rushing mark: 26-38-3.
and I looked up his picture, he is white, just whatever you do, don't google his name on images. Just look it up on the school's website. Trust me. There is another Blaine Sumner that pops up.
This guy should be getting more attention, not only does he have this freakish physical skillset, Colorado School of Mines is a very tough school offering only engineering degrees, he made the Dean's list while getting Bachelors and Masters. If he were black his name would be everywhere.
Edited by: snow
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
<DIV id=main>
<DIV =navigation>
<DIV =alignleft>« Older Entries
<DIV =alignright>
<DIV =post>
<H2 id=post-75025>
<DIV id=nfl-cat>Pro DaysKerrigan shows why he could be first-roundsteal</H2>
Posted: March 15th, 2011 | Gil Brandt | Tags: Ryan Kerrigan, Joe Cullen, Purdue pro day
<DIV =entry>
If you didn't know already, this is a deep draft class along the defensive line. So finding a good one shouldn't be too difficult.
That being said, since Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan is rated below many of the same players at his position, whoever ends up with him in the middle to late first round could wind up with a steal of a pick.
Kerrigan (6-foot-4, 274 pounds) proved that on March 11 at the Boilermakers' pro day with a solid workout in front of 23 teams indoors on FieldTurf.
Jacksonville Jaguars defensive line coach Joe Cullen was on hand to work out Kerrigan. Surprise, surprise, Pat Kirwan, in his latest mock draft, has Kerrigan going to Jacksonville with the 16th pick. He might be on to something.
That would be a great value for the Jaguars, who could use a good edge rusher. Kerrigan led the Big Ten last season in combined hurries and knockdowns with 24.5, two ahead of Wisconsin's J.J. Watt, one of the players generally rated ahead of him. Kerrigan is a guy who makes things happen.
Other notables to work out:
OLB Jason Werner (6-3 5/8) â€" He ran 4.50 seconds twice in the 40-yard dash, 4.39 in the short shuttle and 6.80 in the 3-cone drill. He had a 31-inch vertical and a 9-9 broad jump, and completed 28 bench-press repetitions at 225 pounds. He did position workouts.
TE Kyle Adams (6-4 ¾, 257) â€" He ran 4.85 and 4.83 40s, 4.35 short shuttle and 7.10 3-cone drill. "¦ He had a 33-inch vertical and a 10-2 broad jump, and he did 24 strength lifts.
RB Dan Dierking (5-9 ¼, 194) â€" He ran 40s of 4.53 and 4.55, a 4.19 short shuttle and a 6.84 3-cone drill. He had a 33-inch vertical and a 9-6 broad jump, and he completed an impressive 31 bench presses. He is an outstanding special teams player.
<DIV =navigation>
<DIV =alignleft>« Older Entries
<DIV =alignright>
<DIV =post>
<H2 id=post-75025>
<DIV id=nfl-cat>Pro DaysKerrigan shows why he could be first-roundsteal</H2>
Posted: March 15th, 2011 | Gil Brandt | Tags: Ryan Kerrigan, Joe Cullen, Purdue pro day
<DIV =entry>
If you didn't know already, this is a deep draft class along the defensive line. So finding a good one shouldn't be too difficult.
That being said, since Purdue DE Ryan Kerrigan is rated below many of the same players at his position, whoever ends up with him in the middle to late first round could wind up with a steal of a pick.
Kerrigan (6-foot-4, 274 pounds) proved that on March 11 at the Boilermakers' pro day with a solid workout in front of 23 teams indoors on FieldTurf.
Jacksonville Jaguars defensive line coach Joe Cullen was on hand to work out Kerrigan. Surprise, surprise, Pat Kirwan, in his latest mock draft, has Kerrigan going to Jacksonville with the 16th pick. He might be on to something.
That would be a great value for the Jaguars, who could use a good edge rusher. Kerrigan led the Big Ten last season in combined hurries and knockdowns with 24.5, two ahead of Wisconsin's J.J. Watt, one of the players generally rated ahead of him. Kerrigan is a guy who makes things happen.
Other notables to work out:
OLB Jason Werner (6-3 5/8) â€" He ran 4.50 seconds twice in the 40-yard dash, 4.39 in the short shuttle and 6.80 in the 3-cone drill. He had a 31-inch vertical and a 9-9 broad jump, and completed 28 bench-press repetitions at 225 pounds. He did position workouts.
TE Kyle Adams (6-4 ¾, 257) â€" He ran 4.85 and 4.83 40s, 4.35 short shuttle and 7.10 3-cone drill. "¦ He had a 33-inch vertical and a 10-2 broad jump, and he did 24 strength lifts.
RB Dan Dierking (5-9 ¼, 194) â€" He ran 40s of 4.53 and 4.55, a 4.19 short shuttle and a 6.84 3-cone drill. He had a 33-inch vertical and a 9-6 broad jump, and he completed an impressive 31 bench presses. He is an outstanding special teams player.
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
Some news from pro days around the country.
Elmore (6-4 5/8, 256) â€" He ran a 4.86 and 4.83 40, a 4.58 short shuttle and 7.29 three-cone. He had a 34 1/2 vertical and 9-7 broad jump
<DIV =entry>
Pro days represent a chance for top-tier prospects to cement their status or answer any questions that might linger about their game. However, for players like Kent State safety Brian Lainhart, a good workout can get you drafted.
Lainhart, who wasn't invited to the combine, showed good change of direction during his positional workout. He was among 15 players at the event and posted several impressive numbers Wednesday in front of 11 teams.
Lainhart (6-foot 1/4, 211 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.66 and 4.64 seconds, had a 4.32 short shuttle and 6.63 three-cone drill, all of which came indoors, on AstroTurf. He also had a 37 ½-inch vertical, a 10-5 broad jump and did 23 reps on the bench press.
Edited by: celticdb15
Elmore (6-4 5/8, 256) â€" He ran a 4.86 and 4.83 40, a 4.58 short shuttle and 7.29 three-cone. He had a 34 1/2 vertical and 9-7 broad jump
<DIV =entry>
Pro days represent a chance for top-tier prospects to cement their status or answer any questions that might linger about their game. However, for players like Kent State safety Brian Lainhart, a good workout can get you drafted.
Lainhart, who wasn't invited to the combine, showed good change of direction during his positional workout. He was among 15 players at the event and posted several impressive numbers Wednesday in front of 11 teams.
Lainhart (6-foot 1/4, 211 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.66 and 4.64 seconds, had a 4.32 short shuttle and 6.63 three-cone drill, all of which came indoors, on AstroTurf. He also had a 37 ½-inch vertical, a 10-5 broad jump and did 23 reps on the bench press.
Edited by: celticdb15
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
Chase Reynolds pro day numbers
Reynolds was at 4.58 and 4.61. He said his training in Florida, part of which was spent with Olympian sprinter Ato Boldon of Trinidad, was time well-spent.
"Absolutely," he said. "Just seeing guys and the way they were doing things... A lot of it is just technique. I think it definitely helped. We had former NFL scouts helping us down there."
The day began with the lifts and jumps, and Reynolds allowed that his bench press - he got 225 pounds up eight times - was not yet up to par.
"After the Cat game I'm still healing up," he said. "That's not bad considering I couldn't even bench a month ago. But I knew I had to pick it up out here."
Reynolds' time in the 3-cone drill was 6.80 and he did the 20-yard shuttle in 4.25 seconds. Beers rated those times high.
Reynolds was at 4.58 and 4.61. He said his training in Florida, part of which was spent with Olympian sprinter Ato Boldon of Trinidad, was time well-spent.
"Absolutely," he said. "Just seeing guys and the way they were doing things... A lot of it is just technique. I think it definitely helped. We had former NFL scouts helping us down there."
The day began with the lifts and jumps, and Reynolds allowed that his bench press - he got 225 pounds up eight times - was not yet up to par.
"After the Cat game I'm still healing up," he said. "That's not bad considering I couldn't even bench a month ago. But I knew I had to pick it up out here."
Reynolds' time in the 3-cone drill was 6.80 and he did the 20-yard shuttle in 4.25 seconds. Beers rated those times high.
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
Pete Prisco: Purdue defensive end Ryan Kerrigan sacks the try-hard racial stereotypes.
<H1 ="storyhdl">Purdue's Kerrigan sacks the try-hard stereotypes</H1>
<TABLE style="BACKGROUND: url(http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/cbss/ui5/authors/70x60/3708.jpg) white no-repeat left top; HEIGHT: 60px" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 80px" vAlign=top>
<DIV ="spacer10">By Pete Prisco
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
March 15, 2011Tell Pete your opinion! </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>
<DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px" ="story- hasByline">
Terrelle Pryor is fast. The Ohio State quarterback usually runs away from defenders, even swift defensive backs, with his long stride. He has been timed in the 40 under 4.4 seconds, which is blazing fast. That's why one play of the many that I watched when studying Purdue defensive end Ryan Kerrigan caught my eye. Terrelle Pryor didn't run away from him. Kerrigan actually closed on him.
That's big-time speed for a 6-foot-3, 267-pound defensive end. And it's also why any comparison of Kerrigan to Aaron Kampman and Kyle Vanden Bosch, two NFL defensive ends, does him a disservice. I think Kerrigan is compared to those defensive ends for one reason: Like them, he's white. The NFL Draft stereotypes are almost never fair. Yet we hear them every year heading into the draft. This year, Cam Newton is almost always compared to Vince Young, in part because both are black quarterbacks who move around. Unfair. They aren't as alike as you might think.
Last year, receiver Jordan Shipley, coming out of Texas, was often compared to New England's Wes Welker, even though Shipley ran much faster. I actually asked Shipley, who just finished his rookie season with the Bengals, his thoughts about the comparison. He wanted no part of that talk. It's a touchy subject for sure, but let's be real: Labeling and comparing a player based on race happens.
"Comparing current NFL players to current college players is very common, especially in the spring as things intensify for the draft," one NFL general manager said. "At least coming out of college, Ryan is a better pass rusher than Aaron and Kyle. I don't see Cam like Vince either. I think you have to be careful to compare players for only one reason."
For Kerrigan, the comparisons usually come with phrases such as try-hard, effort-player, never quits. They also might be costing him money. Speed rushers go in the top-10 of the draft; effort rushers go mid-first round to late-first round. In his mock draft for NFL.com, Pat Kirwan writes that Kerrigan plays with a high motor. Our top-notch guys from NFL DraftScout.com wrote this in their analysis of him: "Hustle pass-rusher; does not have exceptional closing burst."
When they did a comparison of their top 50 players to a current NFL player, guess the player they used for Kerrigan? Vanden Bosch.
The analysis was this: Given the successful career of Vanden Bosch and former Big Ten star Aaron Kampman, it's unlikely Kerrigan -- an underrated athlete who plays with a high-running motor -- will fall out of the first round like Vanden Bosch (second) and Kampman (fifth) did.
At least they said he's an underrated athlete.
Truth is, the kid is plenty athletic. The Pryor play is just one example of why Kerrigan doesn't deserve to be placed into the same bin as those two.
<TABLE width=250 =" mRight10 fLeft"><T>
<T>
<TR ="title">
<TD>More on NFL Draft</TD></TR>
<TR ="subtitle">
<TD>Related links</TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top ="row1">
<TD>
</TD></TR>
<TR ="subtitle">
<TD></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top ="row1">
<TD>
</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>
That play came in 2009, Kerrigan's junior season. Lined up at left end, he was blocked for a moment by Ohio State's left tackle. As Pryor dropped into the pocket, Kerrigan began to beat his man. That led to Pryor scrambling left.
Kerrigan came at him from 10 yards away, closed fast, and nearly tripped up a scrambling Pryor. His dive at his feet just missed.
The stat sheet didn't give Kerrigan credit for much of anything since Pryor began his scramble before Kerrigan flushed him. But it's one play that shows just how explosive Kerrigan can be off the edge.
There are others who displayed his speed, but there are also several examples of his power. In a game against Wisconsin, Kerrigan lines up at left end. At the snap, he engages the tight end and quickly sheds the block. That's where the tackle is waiting. He then bull-rushes the tackle, knocking him back, and sacks Wisconsin quarterback Scott Tolzien. The score at the time: Wisconsin 24, Purdue 0. That's speaks volumes about the kid's drive.
"I feel like I'm a good pass rusher," Kerrigan said. "I can get after the passer. But I'm also athletic enough to drop into coverage and be able to cover tight ends and linebackers."
Some teams think he's athletic enough to play standing up as an outside 3-4 linebacker. I see him as a 4-3 end. To help prepare for a possible transition, Kerrigan spent time working on linebacker drills and did some at the Purdue pro day last week.
Kerrigan ran the 40-yard dash in 4.67 seconds at the combine and had a 33-1/2 inch vertical leap at 267 pounds. That's not quite the 40 time that Dwight Freeney put up when he came out, which was 4.48, but it's also faster than many scouts expected and much quicker than the 4.8 that Kampman ran coming out of college.
At Purdue, Kerrigan had 33 1/2 sacks and 14 forced fumbles, which tells you he's the sack-fumble kind of player that good pass rushers need to be.
"Our motto at Purdue was it's not enough just to get the sack or get the tackle, but you wanted to force a fumble and get the ball back for your offense," Kerrigan said. "We really tried to do that every game."
The more I watch this kid, the more I like him. The eye in the sky doesn't lie, and it shows he has the explosive ability to get to the quarterback. Edited by: celticdb15
<H1 ="storyhdl">Purdue's Kerrigan sacks the try-hard stereotypes</H1>
<TABLE style="BACKGROUND: url(http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/cbss/ui5/authors/70x60/3708.jpg) white no-repeat left top; HEIGHT: 60px" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 80px" vAlign=top>
<DIV ="spacer10">By Pete Prisco
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
March 15, 2011Tell Pete your opinion! </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>
<DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px" ="story- hasByline">
Terrelle Pryor is fast. The Ohio State quarterback usually runs away from defenders, even swift defensive backs, with his long stride. He has been timed in the 40 under 4.4 seconds, which is blazing fast. That's why one play of the many that I watched when studying Purdue defensive end Ryan Kerrigan caught my eye. Terrelle Pryor didn't run away from him. Kerrigan actually closed on him.
That's big-time speed for a 6-foot-3, 267-pound defensive end. And it's also why any comparison of Kerrigan to Aaron Kampman and Kyle Vanden Bosch, two NFL defensive ends, does him a disservice. I think Kerrigan is compared to those defensive ends for one reason: Like them, he's white. The NFL Draft stereotypes are almost never fair. Yet we hear them every year heading into the draft. This year, Cam Newton is almost always compared to Vince Young, in part because both are black quarterbacks who move around. Unfair. They aren't as alike as you might think.
Last year, receiver Jordan Shipley, coming out of Texas, was often compared to New England's Wes Welker, even though Shipley ran much faster. I actually asked Shipley, who just finished his rookie season with the Bengals, his thoughts about the comparison. He wanted no part of that talk. It's a touchy subject for sure, but let's be real: Labeling and comparing a player based on race happens.
"Comparing current NFL players to current college players is very common, especially in the spring as things intensify for the draft," one NFL general manager said. "At least coming out of college, Ryan is a better pass rusher than Aaron and Kyle. I don't see Cam like Vince either. I think you have to be careful to compare players for only one reason."
For Kerrigan, the comparisons usually come with phrases such as try-hard, effort-player, never quits. They also might be costing him money. Speed rushers go in the top-10 of the draft; effort rushers go mid-first round to late-first round. In his mock draft for NFL.com, Pat Kirwan writes that Kerrigan plays with a high motor. Our top-notch guys from NFL DraftScout.com wrote this in their analysis of him: "Hustle pass-rusher; does not have exceptional closing burst."
When they did a comparison of their top 50 players to a current NFL player, guess the player they used for Kerrigan? Vanden Bosch.
The analysis was this: Given the successful career of Vanden Bosch and former Big Ten star Aaron Kampman, it's unlikely Kerrigan -- an underrated athlete who plays with a high-running motor -- will fall out of the first round like Vanden Bosch (second) and Kampman (fifth) did.
At least they said he's an underrated athlete.
Truth is, the kid is plenty athletic. The Pryor play is just one example of why Kerrigan doesn't deserve to be placed into the same bin as those two.
<TABLE width=250 =" mRight10 fLeft"><T>
<T>
<TR ="title">
<TD>More on NFL Draft</TD></TR>
<TR ="subtitle">
<TD>Related links</TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top ="row1">
<TD>
</TD></TR>
<TR ="subtitle">
<TD></TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top ="row1">
<TD>
</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>
That play came in 2009, Kerrigan's junior season. Lined up at left end, he was blocked for a moment by Ohio State's left tackle. As Pryor dropped into the pocket, Kerrigan began to beat his man. That led to Pryor scrambling left.
Kerrigan came at him from 10 yards away, closed fast, and nearly tripped up a scrambling Pryor. His dive at his feet just missed.
The stat sheet didn't give Kerrigan credit for much of anything since Pryor began his scramble before Kerrigan flushed him. But it's one play that shows just how explosive Kerrigan can be off the edge.
There are others who displayed his speed, but there are also several examples of his power. In a game against Wisconsin, Kerrigan lines up at left end. At the snap, he engages the tight end and quickly sheds the block. That's where the tackle is waiting. He then bull-rushes the tackle, knocking him back, and sacks Wisconsin quarterback Scott Tolzien. The score at the time: Wisconsin 24, Purdue 0. That's speaks volumes about the kid's drive.
"I feel like I'm a good pass rusher," Kerrigan said. "I can get after the passer. But I'm also athletic enough to drop into coverage and be able to cover tight ends and linebackers."
Some teams think he's athletic enough to play standing up as an outside 3-4 linebacker. I see him as a 4-3 end. To help prepare for a possible transition, Kerrigan spent time working on linebacker drills and did some at the Purdue pro day last week.
Kerrigan ran the 40-yard dash in 4.67 seconds at the combine and had a 33-1/2 inch vertical leap at 267 pounds. That's not quite the 40 time that Dwight Freeney put up when he came out, which was 4.48, but it's also faster than many scouts expected and much quicker than the 4.8 that Kampman ran coming out of college.
At Purdue, Kerrigan had 33 1/2 sacks and 14 forced fumbles, which tells you he's the sack-fumble kind of player that good pass rushers need to be.
"Our motto at Purdue was it's not enough just to get the sack or get the tackle, but you wanted to force a fumble and get the ball back for your offense," Kerrigan said. "We really tried to do that every game."
The more I watch this kid, the more I like him. The eye in the sky doesn't lie, and it shows he has the explosive ability to get to the quarterback. Edited by: celticdb15
Deadlift
Hall of Famer
"For Kerrigan, the comparisons usually come with phrases such as try-hard, effort-player, never quits. They also might be costing him money. Speed rushers go in the top-10 of the draft; effort rushers go mid-first round to late-first round."
So, is DaQuan Bowers a "speed-rusher?" I think not.. I watched the whole Clemson/NC State game, and NC State would have EASILY won if Russell Wilson didn't make a couple of HUGE mistakes.
I could explain some of the specific things I saw in that game, but I digress.. Clemson lost their Bowl Game and finished the season with a 6-7 record.
When I saw Suh as a Junior, I could not deny that he had a fluidity about him. As for Bowers, he has a good motor, but he doesn't "jump off the screen" at you.. if he were "White" -- he would be selected in the top of the 2nd Round like Vanden Bosch. But, Bowers' does not possess the "great physical strength" of KVB.
So, is DaQuan Bowers a "speed-rusher?" I think not.. I watched the whole Clemson/NC State game, and NC State would have EASILY won if Russell Wilson didn't make a couple of HUGE mistakes.
I could explain some of the specific things I saw in that game, but I digress.. Clemson lost their Bowl Game and finished the season with a 6-7 record.
When I saw Suh as a Junior, I could not deny that he had a fluidity about him. As for Bowers, he has a good motor, but he doesn't "jump off the screen" at you.. if he were "White" -- he would be selected in the top of the 2nd Round like Vanden Bosch. But, Bowers' does not possess the "great physical strength" of KVB.
yes apparently dwfs think Kerrigan isn't as athletic as someone like Justin Houston, despite having better measurables at the combine. Apparently it doesn't matter what a white athlete does, he has high production and the measurables match the flim, but somehow they think hes a workout warrior whose measurables don't match up on the field? and only gets his production from "overacheiving, hustling" etc. Don't ask me how that makes any sense. Apparently Justin Houston is just more "natural" but has less production because he "takes plays off" but can be "motivated by a good D-coordinator such as Gregg Williams for the Saints" It can't be possible that Houston has reached his maximum potential? Oh yeah and the whole SEC thing, even though his highlights have ULL, Colorado, Idaho St, Georgia Tech etc.
here is a dwf and his thought process.
"I will never use measurables to claim that Kerrigan is just as
fast/explosive as Houston in pads. Houston has an insane first step and
looks extremely quick on tape. Kerrigan has never looked as fast/quick
even though his measurables says he is.
"
"Do you take an overachieving guy over an athletically gifted specimen?"
I looked at both of them play, Kerrigan looks just as quick off the ball, if not quicker. The difference is he doesn't stop and will keep coming at you. I don't know if Houston is lazy, I just don't think he has the stamina to play like he does an entire game. He gets overpowered easily by bigger linemen. Ryan plays the same speed the entire game...fast. Not to mention some of the highlights of Houston look to have been sped up a little bit, you wouldn't notice it until downloading it and looking at the fans hands waving in the air after a play. Oh yeah and as far as the SEC thing, some of the best offensive linemen come from the Big 10.
Edited by: snow
here is a dwf and his thought process.
"I will never use measurables to claim that Kerrigan is just as
fast/explosive as Houston in pads. Houston has an insane first step and
looks extremely quick on tape. Kerrigan has never looked as fast/quick
even though his measurables says he is.
"
"Do you take an overachieving guy over an athletically gifted specimen?"
I looked at both of them play, Kerrigan looks just as quick off the ball, if not quicker. The difference is he doesn't stop and will keep coming at you. I don't know if Houston is lazy, I just don't think he has the stamina to play like he does an entire game. He gets overpowered easily by bigger linemen. Ryan plays the same speed the entire game...fast. Not to mention some of the highlights of Houston look to have been sped up a little bit, you wouldn't notice it until downloading it and looking at the fans hands waving in the air after a play. Oh yeah and as far as the SEC thing, some of the best offensive linemen come from the Big 10.
Edited by: snow
Here is another video of Blaine Sumner.
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D38T-0I24s[/TUBE]
Apparently scouts found him while looking at Marc </font>Schiechl, another white guy who teams like the Packers are looking at as a pass rushing olb. He holds the d2 career sack record with 45. ran 4.64-seconds in the forty, posted a
35-inch vertical jump and broad jump of 10-feet, 5-inches. he
also completed 38 reps on the bench. Primarily playing defensive end in
college, Schiechl measured 6-feet, 2.5-inches and weighed 251-pounds.
He was put through a battery of linebacker drills and looked terrific.
</span>When Sumner put up those freakish numbers, he was also invited to the pro day held at Air Force. Now some are saying Marc was able to get his production because of Sumner. I would like to see both of them make it, but if I had to pick one Id go with Sumner. We have quite a few white pass rushers in this draft, </span>not really any defensive tackles, and only a couple of defensive tackles in the league. I think Kelly Gregg is the only nose tackle, which is what Sumner projects to be. He is raw but looks to have a lot of potential. There are two black defensive tackles in the league that played d2, one is Trey Lewis who had almost identical measurables except for strength. Was drafted in the 6th and started until he tore his knee, and then tore it again falling down a flight of stairs.
Edited by: snow
[TUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D38T-0I24s[/TUBE]
Apparently scouts found him while looking at Marc </font>Schiechl, another white guy who teams like the Packers are looking at as a pass rushing olb. He holds the d2 career sack record with 45. ran 4.64-seconds in the forty, posted a
35-inch vertical jump and broad jump of 10-feet, 5-inches. he
also completed 38 reps on the bench. Primarily playing defensive end in
college, Schiechl measured 6-feet, 2.5-inches and weighed 251-pounds.
He was put through a battery of linebacker drills and looked terrific.
</span>When Sumner put up those freakish numbers, he was also invited to the pro day held at Air Force. Now some are saying Marc was able to get his production because of Sumner. I would like to see both of them make it, but if I had to pick one Id go with Sumner. We have quite a few white pass rushers in this draft, </span>not really any defensive tackles, and only a couple of defensive tackles in the league. I think Kelly Gregg is the only nose tackle, which is what Sumner projects to be. He is raw but looks to have a lot of potential. There are two black defensive tackles in the league that played d2, one is Trey Lewis who had almost identical measurables except for strength. Was drafted in the 6th and started until he tore his knee, and then tore it again falling down a flight of stairs.
Edited by: snow
Based on the similarity in size I thought it might be interestingto compare backs.
Here are the measurables:
Dan Dierking Purdue vs. Mark Ingram Alabama
40 Yd Dash 4.53 4.55 (Pro Day Result), 4.62 (Combine)
3 Cone Drill 6.84 7.13
Bench Reps 31 21
Vertical 3331.5
Based on the above, who is the most likely to be a great special teams performer?
Who will more than likely be picked in the 1st round?
Whowillbe relegated to fullback?
Here are the measurables:
Dan Dierking Purdue vs. Mark Ingram Alabama
40 Yd Dash 4.53 4.55 (Pro Day Result), 4.62 (Combine)
3 Cone Drill 6.84 7.13
Bench Reps 31 21
Vertical 3331.5
Based on the above, who is the most likely to be a great special teams performer?
Who will more than likely be picked in the 1st round?
Whowillbe relegated to fullback?
GreatLakeState
Mentor
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,057
Have followed this kid since high school Up North, Eric Gordon starting 4-yr lb at MSU, including one of their all-time best teams and has always put up big #s. Greg Jones got the hype, he was the smarter "old school" but stiffer of the two, but Eric made some big-time hits and stops over the years. Gordon, 5-11 1/2 225, wasn't invited to Indy, but blew the f up at MSU's pro day:
"Although not invited to the NFL Combine, All-Big Ten linebacker Eric Gordon displayed his athleticism with an outstanding performance at MSU's Pro Day. Gordon began the day with a 40.5-inch vertical leap, which would have placed him in the top 10 at the NFL Combine among all players. He then recorded a 10'7" broad jump, which also would've ranked among the top 15 at the NFL Combine. In addition, Gordon did 25 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press."
"Although not invited to the NFL Combine, All-Big Ten linebacker Eric Gordon displayed his athleticism with an outstanding performance at MSU's Pro Day. Gordon began the day with a 40.5-inch vertical leap, which would have placed him in the top 10 at the NFL Combine among all players. He then recorded a 10'7" broad jump, which also would've ranked among the top 15 at the NFL Combine. In addition, Gordon did 25 reps of 225 pounds on the bench press."
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
GLS great numbers from Gordon! Looks like it was a good day for white LBs from the Michigan schools. CMUs Matt Berning and Nick Bellore did well at the Chippewas pro day, with 20+ scouts in attendance. Bellore recorded 23 bench reps and ran a 4.65 and 4.73 40,while sticking to his agility times at the combine. Berning ran a 4.74 and churned out 28 reps on the bench press(the guy is a beast. very compact build, he looks like a tank!)
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=rivals-1200600
Here's an interview with both Berning and Bellore
http://www.cmuchippewas.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?SPSID=46371&SPID=4199&DB_OEM_ID=10500&id=759795&db_oem_id=10500
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=rivals-1200600
Here's an interview with both Berning and Bellore
http://www.cmuchippewas.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?SPSID=46371&SPID=4199&DB_OEM_ID=10500&id=759795&db_oem_id=10500
Ahmad Black, Safety for the Florida Gators, got his 40 yard time down to 4.74 at his pro day. He is 5'9 190 pounds. And people are still not knocking on him saying he can still play NFL, hes projected to go no later than the 5th. Can anyone think of a white guy with that kind of size and speed getting a chance? Kyle McCarthy and Matt O'Hanlon both had great college production, better size, and ran in the 4.6 range at the combine. The result? McCarthy is trying to make it as an UDFA for the Broncos and O'Hanlon is playing for the Omaha Nighthawks.
O'Hanlon was 5'11 200 pounds with 60+ tackles and 6 interceptions last year. McCarthy had 100 tackles each of his last two seasons and 5 interceptions his last at 6'1 210 pounds. Black had similar senior stats as McCarthy, 100+ tackles and 5 interceptions, but like I said, 5'9 190 pounds.
O'Hanlon was 5'11 200 pounds with 60+ tackles and 6 interceptions last year. McCarthy had 100 tackles each of his last two seasons and 5 interceptions his last at 6'1 210 pounds. Black had similar senior stats as McCarthy, 100+ tackles and 5 interceptions, but like I said, 5'9 190 pounds.
GreatLakeState
Mentor
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2005
- Messages
- 1,057
celticdb15 said:
Good find on the CMU guys. Hopefully Frank Zombo's success with the Packers helps their cause, plus if I recall correctly the MAC had the third-most # of alumni in the Super Bowl so teams will think of that when drafting.
Mighty Joe
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2008
- Messages
- 78
Dom DiCicco is another player disparaged by scouts for his supposed stiffness and lack of athleticism.His pro day numbers
40 4.62
3 cone 6.65
ss 4.12
Broad 10"7"
VJ 37"
His BJ would have been the top mark for his postion at the combine and VJ joint top.Bearing in mind that he weighs in at 230ibs his 40,SS and jumps would have been amongst the top marks posted by Linebackers aswell.
Dominant DIV 11 TE Ryan Travis,a player that could easily play wide out with his hands and route running put up a good workout running a 4.61 and recording a 6.9 SS.
40 4.62
3 cone 6.65
ss 4.12
Broad 10"7"
VJ 37"
His BJ would have been the top mark for his postion at the combine and VJ joint top.Bearing in mind that he weighs in at 230ibs his 40,SS and jumps would have been amongst the top marks posted by Linebackers aswell.
Dominant DIV 11 TE Ryan Travis,a player that could easily play wide out with his hands and route running put up a good workout running a 4.61 and recording a 6.9 SS.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
Is anyone here surprised that noone has said anything about moving Locker to wide receiver? It happened to Crouch, Frost(moved to safety), and Matt Jones. All three were very athletic quarterbacks.
celticdb15
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2007
- Messages
- 8,469
Yeah but Locker has a big time arm and he's played under Steve Sarkisian in a pro style offense.
whiteathlete33
Hall of Famer
celticdb15 said:
Jones, Frost, and Crouch had pretty good arms as well. It's kind of surprising that no one has mentioned Locker moving to receiver since white quarterbacks who can run are usually moved to another position.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
Unfortunately most white RB prospects stay on the bench in college, give up football entirely or normally- best case scenario- are forced to star at the lower levels. This is a bad year for white RBs unfortunately, but there are a handful of guys to talk about.
My top white RB prospects for the 2011 draft:
1. Chase Reynolds: His measurables and film put together have the look of a 3rd/4th round RB, but his production- although good- wasn't SPECTACULAR in the lower FCS level. He is defintely a guy who would have a shot to prove himself in a team's training camp if an afroletic player. Due to production and his small school resume I have him penciled in as a (Rank): 6th/7th rd.- Priority UFA prospect.
2. Kyle Minett: He has the look of a late round prospect when you compare his film and production to black players, but he's an FCS player and isn't expected to impress much with his measureables at his 3/22 Pro Day. I'll have to wait to see how he fares there.
Rank: Priority UFA?
3. Dan Dierking: I didn't get to watch this guy enough on film to give a scouting report. He had very average production for even a priority UFA type RB prospect, but impressed at his Pro Day with nice measurables. He is a good special teamer and could be a UFA gem for some team. He would have a chance to hang around on the fringes of the league if black (Garrett Wolfe?), but being white I think he will be quickly disposed of.
Rank: UFA
Patick Dimarco: He is a FB/H-back/HB tweener type. He could be a Brock Bolen type prospect in the NFL best case scenario. Rank: UFA/Tryout
5. James Berezik: Stands out as a good athlete on film, but had some character concerns at Grand Valley State. His production faded as his career progressed after he fell behind Blake Smolen two years ago.
Rank: Tryout? at best?
The best white RB/WR prospect Matt Sczcur has decided to play on the diamond instead of the gridiron. Sczcur could have been a great find for a team in the late 2nd round as IMO the most talented small school offensive skill player. His short area quickness is dazling and he has a good second gear as well as instincts/ vision. He is also quite tough for a diminuative player. He might have become a Percy Harvin type in the NFL as a receiver- or a bigger, but slightly poorer man's Danny Woodhead as a runner? I wish him success in baseball, but wish he would have chosen football.
Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
My top white RB prospects for the 2011 draft:
1. Chase Reynolds: His measurables and film put together have the look of a 3rd/4th round RB, but his production- although good- wasn't SPECTACULAR in the lower FCS level. He is defintely a guy who would have a shot to prove himself in a team's training camp if an afroletic player. Due to production and his small school resume I have him penciled in as a (Rank): 6th/7th rd.- Priority UFA prospect.
2. Kyle Minett: He has the look of a late round prospect when you compare his film and production to black players, but he's an FCS player and isn't expected to impress much with his measureables at his 3/22 Pro Day. I'll have to wait to see how he fares there.
Rank: Priority UFA?
3. Dan Dierking: I didn't get to watch this guy enough on film to give a scouting report. He had very average production for even a priority UFA type RB prospect, but impressed at his Pro Day with nice measurables. He is a good special teamer and could be a UFA gem for some team. He would have a chance to hang around on the fringes of the league if black (Garrett Wolfe?), but being white I think he will be quickly disposed of.
Patick Dimarco: He is a FB/H-back/HB tweener type. He could be a Brock Bolen type prospect in the NFL best case scenario. Rank: UFA/Tryout
5. James Berezik: Stands out as a good athlete on film, but had some character concerns at Grand Valley State. His production faded as his career progressed after he fell behind Blake Smolen two years ago.
Rank: Tryout? at best?
The best white RB/WR prospect Matt Sczcur has decided to play on the diamond instead of the gridiron. Sczcur could have been a great find for a team in the late 2nd round as IMO the most talented small school offensive skill player. His short area quickness is dazling and he has a good second gear as well as instincts/ vision. He is also quite tough for a diminuative player. He might have become a Percy Harvin type in the NFL as a receiver- or a bigger, but slightly poorer man's Danny Woodhead as a runner? I wish him success in baseball, but wish he would have chosen football.
ToughJ.Riggins
Hall of Famer
The good news is this is a good year for white DEs and Safeties compared to last! There are some good white TEs and LBs too- and as many as 6 white WRs could get drafted, although I'm only expecting 4 in Salas, Whalen, Sanzenbacher and Maehl.