Doug Flutie for Hall of Fame
- Thread starter Freedom
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College Hall of Fame, yes. CFL, why not. NFL? Why, just because he's scrappy little Dougie Flutie? I think not. He did not have a HOF career in the NFL. Sorry. My answer is no.
Your suggestion is rather trollish. But wait a minute, I see your location. Massachusetts, eh? Okay, sticking up for your homeboy. Understandable.
But really find another cause. Like unseating Fathead Ted from his throne. Is he gonna die in that seat, or what?Edited by: Hockaday
Your suggestion is rather trollish. But wait a minute, I see your location. Massachusetts, eh? Okay, sticking up for your homeboy. Understandable.
But really find another cause. Like unseating Fathead Ted from his throne. Is he gonna die in that seat, or what?Edited by: Hockaday
Location isn't a huge factor here. I am from Massachusetts and in Massachusetts for Christmas and then some. I am not responsible for the political situation because I have never even been old enough to vote.
Flutie was HOF caliber. It was clearly coaches faults that he never started during his prime in the NFL. He went USFL because the NFL didn't want him. Besides, if it claims to be the Pro Football HOF, it should honor the best in all leagues and not just in the NFL.
Secondly, how is that trollish? I praise a white athlete. Edited by: Freedom
Flutie was HOF caliber. It was clearly coaches faults that he never started during his prime in the NFL. He went USFL because the NFL didn't want him. Besides, if it claims to be the Pro Football HOF, it should honor the best in all leagues and not just in the NFL.
Secondly, how is that trollish? I praise a white athlete. Edited by: Freedom
Leonardfan
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Didn't Warren Moon get recognized for his CFL achievements when being inducted into the NFL hall of fame? I am not sure but I am pretty sure he did.
Moon made it based on what he accomplished in the NFL, though he also had a great CFL career. Flutie wasn't treated fairly by the NFL, but he shouldn't go in the Hall of Fame based on what could have been rather than what was.
Flutie was held back in the NFL by what was perceived as a lack of height to get the job donerather than theCaste System.
Flutie was held back in the NFL by what was perceived as a lack of height to get the job donerather than theCaste System.
Flutie was the most exciting QB to watch in my opinion in the last couple of decades. Unfortunetly, the NFL never really gave him a fair shot. When he came back to NFL late in his career with the Bills, the Bills won 13 games. He nearly had them in the superbowl had it not been for Andre Reed stupidly pushing a referee when they were on the one yard line on the final drive. That stupid act alone may have sealed Flutie's fate. The next year he again lead them to a great record only to be replaced by the forgettable Rob Johnson in the playoff game. The Bills lost that game - the music city miracle: justice was served. Since benching Flutie, the Bills have never been the same.
Flutie's treatment in the NFL above all shows what a copycat league the NFL is. The NFL never thinks outside the box especially when it comes to white players. Flutie also willingly played for the league minimum and no team was willing to give him a shot. That's amazing considering that Kordell Stewart was starting for years at the time.
If it was the Football Hall of Fame instead of the NFL's hall of fame, Flutie would be in it. I hope they replay the Miami game on ESPN classic soon. Watching that game, how could anyone think that Flutie could not play in the NFL.
Flutie's treatment in the NFL above all shows what a copycat league the NFL is. The NFL never thinks outside the box especially when it comes to white players. Flutie also willingly played for the league minimum and no team was willing to give him a shot. That's amazing considering that Kordell Stewart was starting for years at the time.
If it was the Football Hall of Fame instead of the NFL's hall of fame, Flutie would be in it. I hope they replay the Miami game on ESPN classic soon. Watching that game, how could anyone think that Flutie could not play in the NFL.
foreverfree
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Hockaday said:
Probably.
John
(who's visited BC and sat in Alumni Stadium)Edited by: foreverfree
If a guy doesn't play much when he is good, should his lack of playing time be considered his fault?
Now, I realize that not receiving fair treatment may not be considered when selecting a player as great, but what about every single Negro Leaguer in the hall.Edited by: Freedom
Now, I realize that not receiving fair treatment may not be considered when selecting a player as great, but what about every single Negro Leaguer in the hall.Edited by: Freedom
Freedom said:
Darn right!
Lots of those players would be Hall of Famers if it weren't
for unfair treatment. But that treatment was much more underhanded. I needed a Heisman Trophy winner who was a college superstar and delivered in the NFL when given a shot, to demonstrate a much more blatant case of unfair treatment.
The other Heisman case was Eric Crouch. But that was very different. Crouch was a wishbone QB whom the Rams had drafted at WR. The NFL long had a policy of making option QBs safeties(I believe from old wishbone Texas/Oklahoma) and Michael Vick was one of the few people(white or black) that was allowed to play running quarterback. The league's unfair treatment of Crouch was much more underhanded and subtle because running "new breed" quarterbacks in the pros have been a relatively recent phenomenon.
Anyways, I wanted to show unfair treatment of a very respected and prolific college player as opposed to some DIII star or walk on.
Lots of those players would be Hall of Famers if it weren't
for unfair treatment. But that treatment was much more underhanded. I needed a Heisman Trophy winner who was a college superstar and delivered in the NFL when given a shot, to demonstrate a much more blatant case of unfair treatment.
The other Heisman case was Eric Crouch. But that was very different. Crouch was a wishbone QB whom the Rams had drafted at WR. The NFL long had a policy of making option QBs safeties(I believe from old wishbone Texas/Oklahoma) and Michael Vick was one of the few people(white or black) that was allowed to play running quarterback. The league's unfair treatment of Crouch was much more underhanded and subtle because running "new breed" quarterbacks in the pros have been a relatively recent phenomenon.
Anyways, I wanted to show unfair treatment of a very respected and prolific college player as opposed to some DIII star or walk on.
Flutie was not a victim of the Caste System. Eric Crouch was. Bottom line: Doug Flutie played in 13 NFL seasons. His career completion percentage was a modest 54.7%. He threw 86 TD passes and 68 interceptions. He was a good quarterback but far from a Hall of Famer. But if you want to organize a campaign to have Flutie elected to the NFL Hall of Fame, good luck.
White Shogun
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If Vick makes the HOF, then Flutie should, too. They have similar career numbers.
The difference of course is that Flutie made a career at backup quarterback with his numbers, while Vick is still starting and still considered part of the 'new breed' of NFL quarterback.
The difference of course is that Flutie made a career at backup quarterback with his numbers, while Vick is still starting and still considered part of the 'new breed' of NFL quarterback.
No doubt he doesn't make the nfl HOF, even though he is one of the most FAMOUS players. Stats and superbowls get you in the HOF. Flutie spent his NFL years playing for bad teams - his stats weren't as great as his play. The prime of his career was spent in Canada of course.
In college he set the record for career passing yards. In the CFL he still holds the single season record for yards and TD's. He was voted the CFL's greatest player of all time.
In college he set the record for career passing yards. In the CFL he still holds the single season record for yards and TD's. He was voted the CFL's greatest player of all time.
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Regarding Flutie, the Pro Football Hall of Fame selectors never have liked players who played much of their careers in leagues other than the NFL. This is true of the CFL, especially. Warren Moon had a very long career in the NFL and put up some big numbers. Flutie's career does not merit HOF selection.
I remember an article by HOF voter Larry Felser in the 1970's, in which Felser wrote that even AFL players of the 60's could gave trouble getting in. As it turned out, big-name players who spent most of their time in the AFL, such as Lance Alworth, did get voted in.
I remember an article by HOF voter Larry Felser in the 1970's, in which Felser wrote that even AFL players of the 60's could gave trouble getting in. As it turned out, big-name players who spent most of their time in the AFL, such as Lance Alworth, did get voted in.
foreverfree
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Freedom, Canton's not the only place you should call regarding Flutie's enshrinement. He's not in the Canadian Football HOF either (though Moon is).
http://www.footballhof.com/famers/players.asp?id=1
It appears Moon is the first member of both the CanFHOF and PFHOF. And looking at the list, the CanFHOF has a couple of Simpsons enshrined, neither named Homer J., Bartholomew K. or Orenthal J.
Seeing Dieter Brock's name on the CFHOF list brought back memories of seeing him on ESPN in the early 80s quarterbacking Winnipeg before coming south to join the Rams. Same for Condredge Holloway with the Argos.
JohnEdited by: foreverfree
http://www.footballhof.com/famers/players.asp?id=1
It appears Moon is the first member of both the CanFHOF and PFHOF. And looking at the list, the CanFHOF has a couple of Simpsons enshrined, neither named Homer J., Bartholomew K. or Orenthal J.
Seeing Dieter Brock's name on the CFHOF list brought back memories of seeing him on ESPN in the early 80s quarterbacking Winnipeg before coming south to join the Rams. Same for Condredge Holloway with the Argos.
JohnEdited by: foreverfree
foreverfree
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sport historian said:
Too few, apparently, to satisfy the Bills fan who came up with his own, well populated AFL HOF, existing only at http://www.conigliofamily.com/AFLHallofFame.htm .
JohnEdited by: foreverfree
Freedom,
On the surface, it's absurd to put a player like Flutie in the NFL Hall of Fame. However, you bring up some interesting comparisons in Warren Moon and the old Negro League baseball players. While Moon did have a decade or so of strong passing numbers, he made a name for himself in the CFL, and in articles and commentaries praising his selection, those CFL years were mentioned prominently and apparently taken into consideration. He also, we must always remember, never "won a Super Bowl," (or even played in one), which is supposedly the top criteria for "greatness" as an NFL QB. He also padded his stats tremendously in the NFL when he played with the gimmickly, run and shoot offenses of the Houston Oilers and Atlanta Falcons. The always criticized Jeff George even was able to put up an impressive statistical season with the Falcons with that offense. As for the old Negro Leaguers, here we have a group of "athletes" who either never played true organized baseball at a professional level, or played only briefly at the end of their careers, yet they have been elected into Major League Baseball's Hall of Fame in large numbers. It is, at this point, an automatic induction if some elderly black is mentioned as being a Negro League player, and his name goes before the HOF voters. I don't care about Flutie's stats- at least he had a career in the organization whose Hall of Fame we're talking about, unlike those Negro Leaguers. And I also agree that Flutie was disciminated against; if the Caste System didn't rule the NFL, he would have been allowed to be himself, which would have made him a smaller, slightly slower, much better passing version of Mike/Michael Vick. Flutie could have been a real force during his prime (as he was in Canada), with his fantastic scrambling ability. Now I am probably not being unbiased here, because first and foremost I truly admire Doug Flutie for being, from all accounts, a first class human being. How can anyone forget that ignorant scum Jimmy Johnson smashing a box of Flutie Flakes in a victory celebration after the Cowboys beat the Bills? Flutie's son suffers from a serious learning disorder, and he set up a foundation in his name; profits from the sale of Flutie Flakes' cereal went directly into research to study this disorder. Flutie is now a college football commentator on ESPN- perhaps he will be couragous enough to someday be the guy we've all been waiting for, who will publicly challenge the Caste System. BTW, I simply cannot believe Flutie is not in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame (while Moon is!) Flutie is almost certainly the most famous Canadian League player in history.
On the surface, it's absurd to put a player like Flutie in the NFL Hall of Fame. However, you bring up some interesting comparisons in Warren Moon and the old Negro League baseball players. While Moon did have a decade or so of strong passing numbers, he made a name for himself in the CFL, and in articles and commentaries praising his selection, those CFL years were mentioned prominently and apparently taken into consideration. He also, we must always remember, never "won a Super Bowl," (or even played in one), which is supposedly the top criteria for "greatness" as an NFL QB. He also padded his stats tremendously in the NFL when he played with the gimmickly, run and shoot offenses of the Houston Oilers and Atlanta Falcons. The always criticized Jeff George even was able to put up an impressive statistical season with the Falcons with that offense. As for the old Negro Leaguers, here we have a group of "athletes" who either never played true organized baseball at a professional level, or played only briefly at the end of their careers, yet they have been elected into Major League Baseball's Hall of Fame in large numbers. It is, at this point, an automatic induction if some elderly black is mentioned as being a Negro League player, and his name goes before the HOF voters. I don't care about Flutie's stats- at least he had a career in the organization whose Hall of Fame we're talking about, unlike those Negro Leaguers. And I also agree that Flutie was disciminated against; if the Caste System didn't rule the NFL, he would have been allowed to be himself, which would have made him a smaller, slightly slower, much better passing version of Mike/Michael Vick. Flutie could have been a real force during his prime (as he was in Canada), with his fantastic scrambling ability. Now I am probably not being unbiased here, because first and foremost I truly admire Doug Flutie for being, from all accounts, a first class human being. How can anyone forget that ignorant scum Jimmy Johnson smashing a box of Flutie Flakes in a victory celebration after the Cowboys beat the Bills? Flutie's son suffers from a serious learning disorder, and he set up a foundation in his name; profits from the sale of Flutie Flakes' cereal went directly into research to study this disorder. Flutie is now a college football commentator on ESPN- perhaps he will be couragous enough to someday be the guy we've all been waiting for, who will publicly challenge the Caste System. BTW, I simply cannot believe Flutie is not in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame (while Moon is!) Flutie is almost certainly the most famous Canadian League player in history.