First let me say that I'm as big a dirk fan as there is,BUT! What the hell happened to him? He looked like he just didn't give a damn. He was just going through the motions. All he did was stand on the peremiter and pass the ball. A MVP does not pass the ball in critical situations. The Guy is 7 ft. tall. Nobody on Golden State was even close to that size. He should have punished those midgets all night long. I'm so dissapointed I could cry. He's been my favorite player since Larry Bird. I've bragged so much on him the last few years. Now I'm going to look like the biggest idiot in the world. I just hope he can bounce back. I also hope that Avery Johnson will run the offense through him more like Don Nelson did. He's got to put the team on his shoulders and carry them win or lose.
dirks meltdown
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Everyone slumps, it's part of being human. Black athletes disappear all of the time and it never makes a difference. Donovan McNabb fell apart in the Super Bowl and he bounced back and for some reason the media hardly criticized him at all
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Meltdown? Meltdown does not really cover what happened last night. What the hell was that? I've never seen any player fold like that ever. That was the worst Nowitzki has EVER played. Literally. I'm not exaggerating. His worst game as a professional basketball player and it was all his fault, and his alone. I'm at a total loss to explain what happened there.
Holy heck, I think they might actually reconsider giving him the MVP after that. Good grief, that was a legendary collapse.
Holy heck, I think they might actually reconsider giving him the MVP after that. Good grief, that was a legendary collapse.
White Shogun
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Any chance Dirk might have been following the directions of his coach? Just asking. I didn't watch the game (none this season, as a matter of fact), nor have I read any articles on the subject, but I thought I'd ask anyway.
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White Shogun said:
Absolutely no chance in the world. He literally did NOTHING for the entire game. He did not even try to play. It was mind boggling.
I've never seen anything like it in professional sports. This was nothing like "falling apart" or "having a bad game". Those are worlds apart from what happened to Nowitzki. Falling apart or having a bad game imply the player was trying. Nobody can honestly say Dirk Nowitzki was trying to do anything last night. Holy crap, last night may actually have been the worst choke of all time in professional basketball. This will go down in history. "Game 6" will become a legendary choke. Nowitzki's whole career is on the line. Guys, I'm not exaggerating here! You can't overstate how badly Dirk screwed up.
I'm still kind of in a daze, since I've been watching him for 6 years now. Is this the same player that exploded on the Spurs only one year ago?
Edited by: nevada
I'd love to sing Dirk's praises as much as anyone here, but he was totally pathetic in the entire series, except for that brief stretch at the end of game five, leading them to a comeback win. As much as I agree that black stars collapse too, I've never seen a basketball player of Dirk's caliber literally quit like he did last night. But this isn't the first time I've questioned Dirk's heart and will to win. A few years back, when Nash was still with Dallas, and they had the whitest team the NBA had seen since the Celtics of Larry Bird's era, Dirk was injured and, imho, just wimped out and refused to play through pain in the deciding games of the playoffs. He was soundly criticized by all the talking heads, of course, but for once I had to agree with them. Dirk should have been able to at least suit up and cheer his team on from the bench (he didn't even do that). Golden State is a ridiculous team that barely slipped into the playoffs. There is nobody on that team that should be able to stop Dirk, but they thoroughly shut him down. I can't imagine Koby Bryant disappearing like that (and no one despises him more than I do). Unfortunately, the media will use Dirk's absurd playoff performance to further solidify the myth that basketball is a black man's game. I already heard one jock-sniffer opine that "Dallas will never win a championship as long as Dirk Nowitski is their best player."
I have to disagree with you fellas' assessments. Dirk was triple teamed anywhere inside the three point line. He tried to force some shots in the first half and they didn't fall. The smart thing to do when you are double and triple teamed is to pass. His teamates should have made shots when he passed. One problem was his teamates don't swing the ball around fast enough like they used to when the team was whiter. I've been watching the Mavs in the playoffs for several years now and Dirk has always played well in the playoffs. Now all of the sudden everyone is branding him a choke artist. Nellie and the warriors have their number right now. Some teams just match up with you well. And the warriors played out of their minds. Stephen Jackson made seven threes in a row. They could have beat anybody playing like that. That being said, Dirk's defense looked like the old Irk Nowitzki from his rookie season. And he should have fouled someone hard to illustrate how he was being manhandled out there.
Detroit Lions
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I dunno KG, I think you're kinda reaching on this one. Dirk wasn't shooting 50%, winning 67 games, going to the finals, or winning MVP's when his team was whiter. Come to think of it, Steve wasn't winning MVP's until he left Dirk and joined an all-black team as well. To blame Dirk's awful performance on his black teammates after they just carried him is a little odd.
He's a great player who just choked. He wasn't tripled-teamed. Stephen Jackson played him straight up for most of the game with an occasional double. He just couldn't elude him long enough to get his shot off.
He's a great player who just choked. He wasn't tripled-teamed. Stephen Jackson played him straight up for most of the game with an occasional double. He just couldn't elude him long enough to get his shot off.
When Dirk attempted to post up, two warriors (at least) guarded him. On those high screen and rolls, he always had a smaller player on him and the double team would come from his blind side as soon as he tried to back the player down. It was a smart game plan by Don Nelson, but as soon as Dirk posted and drew the attention of two or three warriors, that should have created enough space for Dirk's teammates to take advantage. They kinda did in the first half. When the Mavs doubled Baron Davis in game six, his teammates made the mavs pay. They had to go back to single coverage. Besides, Dirk only played badly in 2 of the six games. You would think he was the worst player in the history of basketball judging by some of these posts. I'm not ready to give up on him. I'll bet blacks aren't blasting Shaq, Wade and Kobe because they're out. Or how about superstar Garnett because his team didn't even make the playoffs. Dirk's had some clutch performances in the past like I said and I'll borrow from a yahoo columnist:
Yet, understand this: He isn't a loser, and he isn't doomed to this fate. Nowitzki has done too much, in too many important spots, to validate him as a forever failure. Just a year ago, he had 37 points and 15 rebounds in a Game 7 Western Conference final victory over the Spurs. He dropped 50 points in Game 5 of the conference finals, alone out-scoring Phoenix in the fourth quarter.</font>
But it's always "what have you done for me lately?" with fickle fans. If there is no loyalty here then where is it going to be?
Yet, understand this: He isn't a loser, and he isn't doomed to this fate. Nowitzki has done too much, in too many important spots, to validate him as a forever failure. Just a year ago, he had 37 points and 15 rebounds in a Game 7 Western Conference final victory over the Spurs. He dropped 50 points in Game 5 of the conference finals, alone out-scoring Phoenix in the fourth quarter.</font>
But it's always "what have you done for me lately?" with fickle fans. If there is no loyalty here then where is it going to be?
I don't know Detroit, looks like you're stretching a bit too. The tale of the
stats...
Nowitzki
14/16, 14 pts, 12 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
27/15, 23 pts, 7 reb, 0 assists  ;Win
37/16, 20 pts, 12 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
49/19, 23 pts, 15 reb, 3 assists  ;Loss
57/15, 30 pts, 12 reb, 3 assists  ;Win
62/13, 8 pts, 10 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
Shooting Percentage, Rest of Team
136.6%   Loss
249.2%   Win
337.5%   Loss
442.6%   Loss
551.6%   Win
641.7%   Loss
Bench Performance
11/8, 13 reb, 4 assists Loss
24/17, 19 reb, 5 assistsWin
37/23, 13 reb, 3 assistsLoss
46/21, 4 reb, 3 assists Loss
58/21, 11 reb, 3 assistsWin
610/26, 10 reb, 3 assistsLoss
Pretty sh*tty play by the supporting cast too, don't you think? Baron
Davis ran wild on Harris and Terry, and who was guarding Jason
Richardson?
The rest of the Mavericks choked when the double teams went on
Nowitzki. The lack of assists proves it. They played crappy defense
because they have been riding Nowitzki's and Howard's scoring off their
own shot all year. Stackhouse played like crap most of the time too.
The rest of the team was not only responsible for letting Dirk down, they
were responsible for losing the series, period. No one player saves the
team all the time. Its a team game. And the Mavs are not as good a team
as most think they are. Dirk had two good games that the rest of the
team, especially the bench, threw away. In both games that Dirk played
poorly, the rest of the team did not pick up the slack. That's how
important Dirk is to this team, and why they live or die on him most
often.
And who is responsible for making adjustments when the game plan goes
sideways? Hmmmmm.......
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the supporting cast is black, aren't
they?Edited by: PitBull
stats...
Nowitzki
14/16, 14 pts, 12 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
27/15, 23 pts, 7 reb, 0 assists  ;Win
37/16, 20 pts, 12 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
49/19, 23 pts, 15 reb, 3 assists  ;Loss
57/15, 30 pts, 12 reb, 3 assists  ;Win
62/13, 8 pts, 10 reb, 2 assists  ;Loss
Shooting Percentage, Rest of Team
136.6%   Loss
249.2%   Win
337.5%   Loss
442.6%   Loss
551.6%   Win
641.7%   Loss
Bench Performance
11/8, 13 reb, 4 assists Loss
24/17, 19 reb, 5 assistsWin
37/23, 13 reb, 3 assistsLoss
46/21, 4 reb, 3 assists Loss
58/21, 11 reb, 3 assistsWin
610/26, 10 reb, 3 assistsLoss
Pretty sh*tty play by the supporting cast too, don't you think? Baron
Davis ran wild on Harris and Terry, and who was guarding Jason
Richardson?
The rest of the Mavericks choked when the double teams went on
Nowitzki. The lack of assists proves it. They played crappy defense
because they have been riding Nowitzki's and Howard's scoring off their
own shot all year. Stackhouse played like crap most of the time too.
The rest of the team was not only responsible for letting Dirk down, they
were responsible for losing the series, period. No one player saves the
team all the time. Its a team game. And the Mavs are not as good a team
as most think they are. Dirk had two good games that the rest of the
team, especially the bench, threw away. In both games that Dirk played
poorly, the rest of the team did not pick up the slack. That's how
important Dirk is to this team, and why they live or die on him most
often.
And who is responsible for making adjustments when the game plan goes
sideways? Hmmmmm.......
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the supporting cast is black, aren't
they?Edited by: PitBull
Colonel_Reb
Hall of Famer
Where are the great Caste Football conspiracy theorists now? Someone has to believe that he got paid off to play horribly, or had to do his worst because the mob was holding a relative hostage or some other totally plausible explanation.
G
Guest
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Nowitzki usually delivers and has never collapsed like that before, which makes it so hard to understand what happened.
And that was all Dirk. Anybody making excuses is crazy. Some of these excuses are downright ludicrous, even factually wrong. By the third quarter the Warriors were not even guarding him anymore. He was a complete non-factor. At one point he missed 10 shots in a row.
That was the worst game he has ever played. That was the worst an MVP candidate has ever played. That wasn't just a choke. It was one of the great chokes of all time. It was a total disaster.
And that was all Dirk. Anybody making excuses is crazy. Some of these excuses are downright ludicrous, even factually wrong. By the third quarter the Warriors were not even guarding him anymore. He was a complete non-factor. At one point he missed 10 shots in a row.
That was the worst game he has ever played. That was the worst an MVP candidate has ever played. That wasn't just a choke. It was one of the great chokes of all time. It was a total disaster.
Detroit Lions
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Bart said:
There are plenty of great players in every sport, including league MVP's, who happened to choke when they were needed to step up most. This time, Dirk just happened to be the victim. He melted down and laid a 2 for 13 egg when his team's season was on the line. It happens. Michael Jordan choked against the Magic in 1995. John Starks choked in his infamous 3-17 game. Michael Finley choked when he went 1-17. Kobe Bryant choked against Utah in '97. A-Rod chokesin the playoffs, and until early this year, got booed at Yankee Stadium.
It doesn't diminish his status as an excellent player who had a well-deserved MVP year. However, when you're the man, you get the lion's share of the credit for the successes (i.e. MVP award), and the lion's share of the blame for the failures. That's how it's always been, and Dirk's case is no different.. especially in light of how he played in the closeout game.
White Shogun
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Colonel_Reb said:Where are the great Caste Football conspiracy theorists now? Someone has to believe that he got paid off to play horribly, or had to do his worst because the mob was holding a relative hostage or some other totally plausible explanation.
Maybe the league paid him off so that Mark Cuban wouldn't get within sniffing distance of an NBA trophy...
On the Sport Illustrated NBA web site , they said an unnamed Warriors coach said before game 5 "Nowitzki looks scared of Jackson". Alot of people would be afraid of Stephen Jackson. He belongs in jail. He is one of the thugs who ran into the stands at a Pacers- Pistons game and began punching fans. He received one year probation but violated it when he discharged a pistol several times to intimidate another group of people outside a nightclub. He also was ejected twice in the first 5 games of the series which is grounds for a brief suspension. He is a good player and a thug, a perfect combination in today's NBA.
I don't understand it. How can the Mavericks be expected to win a playoff
series when they play such crappy defense, shoot poorly, pass the ball
around poorly, get crappy production from their bench, and make no
adjustments in their game plan? Any good team should be able to cope with
a bad game, even a very bad game, once and a while from their star player,
and still win. So what, the guy choked bad in ONE game. He didn't play
badly for the whole series at all! It just happened to be he last game in the
series. The game before, which COULD have been the last game, he
knocked down 30 points and had 12 boards. Put the blame where it
belongs--on the rest of the team--for not showing up.Edited by: PitBull
series when they play such crappy defense, shoot poorly, pass the ball
around poorly, get crappy production from their bench, and make no
adjustments in their game plan? Any good team should be able to cope with
a bad game, even a very bad game, once and a while from their star player,
and still win. So what, the guy choked bad in ONE game. He didn't play
badly for the whole series at all! It just happened to be he last game in the
series. The game before, which COULD have been the last game, he
knocked down 30 points and had 12 boards. Put the blame where it
belongs--on the rest of the team--for not showing up.Edited by: PitBull
it wasn't so much that he didn't shoot the ball well, his body language and his whole demeanor looked different than any other time I've seen him play. He looked like he was going through motion and wasn't really trying. The whole month of April his numbers were down which carried over into the playoffs. I have great respect for Avery Johnson, but sometimes I think the've tried to change Dirk's game to much. He will always be a scorer first and foremost. Like I said in my first post, Dirk needs to be the man win or lose. He should want the ball in his hands all the time, like Bird, Magic, Jordan or any of the other great ones.
ocaamikedm11
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It seemed to me that Golden State did play some zone in the series which gave them the ability to surround Dirk, forcing him to pass and make the rest of the team beat them. Dirk played horrible in game 7 but the fact that he was playing against a team whose coach knows Dirk inside and out probably didn't help.. He'll be back next year and have another shot at it.. and while the old whiter Mavs may not have been as good of an overall team, they certainly were too loaded offensively to disappear like these Mavs did in the third quarter during that stretch where it was like 23-0 run or whatever... That's not ALL Dirk's fault that the entire team could not score a point for such a large stretch of the game at a time where it was still very close. The whole team folded, not just Dirk. But the star player always goes down with the ship hardest, and rightly so.
ocaamikedm11
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And another point about the old whiter Mavericks teams, I never felt they were ever out of a game or completely in control. Even when down by 20 they had the offensive firepower to come back from any deficit and the porous defense to give it up.. They were very exciting to watch. Nash, Dirk, and Michael Finley were all go-to type players, something Nowitzki sorely lacks now. Josh Howard is emerging, but overall I don't see any other dominant offensive threat for the Mavs.
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ocaamikedm11 said:
This is the best team they've ever had. They've never so easily and so thorougly dismantled opponents like this before.After the 0-4 start, theywent 67-11. That's one of the greatest 78 game stretches inhistory.You don't have 9, 12, 13, and 17game winning streaks all in the same season without having a deep, quality team with several scoring options.
Josh Howard is a 19 point per game all-pro.Dan Patrick even called him the star of the team.Jason Terry averages 17 a game, and shoots 48% from the field at 6'2", including 44% from 3 point land.They're thebest 1-2-3 scoring comboin the league.Edited by: Detroit Lions
"You don't have 9, 12, 13, and 17 game winning streaks all in the same
season without having a deep, quality team with several scoring options."
The "quality team" didn't show up most of the series.
"Josh Howard is a 19 point per game all-pro. Dan Patrick even called him
the star of the team. Jason Terry averages 17 a game, and shoots 48%
from the field at 6'2", including 44% from 3 point land. They're the best
1-2-3 scoring combo in the league."
Yeah, but what does that matter when the guys they are supposed to be
guarding, Baron Davis and Jason Richardson, run wild on them? Why do
you only quote offensive stats, as if that defines a player, when defense
means just as much? What does it matter that you score 19 a game if the
guy you are guarding scores 25?
season without having a deep, quality team with several scoring options."
The "quality team" didn't show up most of the series.
"Josh Howard is a 19 point per game all-pro. Dan Patrick even called him
the star of the team. Jason Terry averages 17 a game, and shoots 48%
from the field at 6'2", including 44% from 3 point land. They're the best
1-2-3 scoring combo in the league."
Yeah, but what does that matter when the guys they are supposed to be
guarding, Baron Davis and Jason Richardson, run wild on them? Why do
you only quote offensive stats, as if that defines a player, when defense
means just as much? What does it matter that you score 19 a game if the
guy you are guarding scores 25?
Detroit Lions
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Did you read the post to which I was responding?The one where ocaamikedm11 lamented on their lackof offensive firepower?
Detroit Lions
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Detroit Lions said:
PitBull said:
Which explains perfectly why you took my reponse to himout of context.