Black vs White Pro Bowl

[Mischling3rdDegree]

Trying this topic again....

If the NFL Pro Bowl was played between an all-white team and an all-black team, which would have the advantage? I see a couple major problems for the black team:

- Kicking/punting. There are no black kickers or punters in the NFL; I'm not even aware of any in college football. Chad Johnson (WR) has kicked an XP before, but there's no reason to think he would have any kind of accuracy on FGs outside the red zone. I imagine most of his kickoffs would be out of bounds (offense starts on the 40) or short. Punts would have poor hang time, leading to longer returns.

- long snapper. I'm pretty sure there aren't any. This is not a skill you can get good at in just a few weeks before the pro bowl. Combined with the previous point, I see an embarassingly horrific kicking game for the black team.

And some areas where they would have a definite disadvantage:
- QB. Manning, Brees, Brady, etc vs.... Vick and poor washed-up McNabb.
- O-line.

On the other hand, they'd have better WRs and DBs. The conventional wisdom is that they'd also have better RBs, but even if that was true, it wouldn't matter. As long as the RB is at least decent, a good O-line is more important.

Thoughts?

 

[Liverlips]

Whites just play better together as a team. Less infighting and inflated egos. Plus, give some white tailbacks and DBs a chance and we will find that, amazingly enough, you don't have to be black to play these positions.

 

[Run Stuffing LB]

It already happens at the high school level and the Whites dominate.

 

[PhillyBirds]

Almost got me.

 

[Don Wassall]

I guess it makes for interesting speculation for some, but it's irrelevant when Whites are systematically shut out after high school, where as Run Stuffing LB notes, they dominate. Only a fraction of the Whites who could and should be playing in the NFL are.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

Even if the Black wide receivers were better, which I don't concede (though I do accept they're better at impersonating blind people with hands of stones), this advantage is at least partially canceled out by the incompetence of the majority of their quarterbacks.

I don't have any statistical evidence beyond my own biased observations, however it seems to me that Whites generally tend to succeed at any position in any sport when given the opportunity, however Blacks as a group tend to benefit from a cultural system that forces them to get chances they don't necessarily deserve...

-- and when they don't succeed (i.e, true franchise quarterbacks, elite swimmers, etc.) we're supposed to attribute their failure to racism or -- worse -- convince ourselves that what we are seeing actually ISN'T incompetence, but genius (see Michael Vick).

 

[Woody]

I would go with the All-Whites, for sure. Peyton Manning, Wes Welker, Austin Collie, Peyton Hillis, Clay Matthews, Eric Weddle....not short on talent at all. Also, if you make all the coordinators also match color the gap widens. Btw, Reggie Hodges is the punter for the Browns, and he's pretty good. (and black).

 

[whiteathlete33]

Of course blacks would have big advantages in receiver and running back. There is a very limited amount of white receivers in the league and even less white running backs. However, if the talented white high school running backs and receivers were recruited to major colleges and allowed to develop whites would be just as good. The playing field would have to be level from the bottom up.

 

[DWFan]

What I'm wondering is how the white team would handle corners. My experience playing football is *very* limited. There are some great white safeties in the league, and some of them were corners in high school or even as late as college, but having trained for and played as safety for years, would they still be able to do corner? If anyone has played either position I'd sure appreciate any reply!

 

[snow]

Matt Bowen explained it well, transitioning to safety from corner is much harder than the other way around. Guys like Weddle, Gregory would have no problem.

 

[DWFan]

Matt Bowen explained it well, transitioning to safety from corner is much harder than the other way around. Guys like Weddle, Gregory would have no problem. 

I'd have to say the white team would win for sure then.

 

[DWFan]

Oh sorry might have read the message wrong. You meant corner-->safety, right?

 

[white is right]

The modern safety is so much larger than the modern corner back. Most safeties of either race aren't agile enough to play corner back in the NFL due to the size they carry. Essentially the modern safety is the size of a 1970's linebacker. When most of the safeties were White and some corners were White, the size difference was minimal. I wonder with rules changes being implemented by the league will safeties change back to the type that played in the 70's.

 

[DWFan]

Great answer white is right! Thank you!

 

[Don Wassall]

White is Right has sneaky speed.

 

[snow]

Yes I was saying guys like Weddle are natural cornerbacks that had to transition to safety, the transition back to corner would be so much easier. Most safeties are bigger, but white ones tend to be smaller, since they are usually suited for cornreback.

 

[foobar75]

Let's have a little fun with this hypothetical. I have come up with the following Pro Bowl roster for whites:

Offense
QB: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers
RB: Peyton Hillis, Danny Woodhead, Toby Gerhart
FB: Heath Evans
WR: Wes Welker, Austin Collie, Kevin Walter, Danny Amendola
TE: Jason Witten, Chris Cooley
Tackle: Joe Thomas, Jordan Gross, Michael Roos, Jake Long
Guard: Steve Hutchinson, Chris Snee, Chris Dielman, Alan Faneca
Center: Nick Mangold, Shaun O'Hara

Defense
DE: Jaren Allen, Kroy Biermann, Aaron Kampman
DT: Justin Smith, Kyle Williams, Gregg Kelly
OLB: Clay Matthews, Brian Cushing, Paul Posluszny, Barret Ruud
ILB: James Laurinaitis, Brian Urlacher
CB: Eric Weddle, Steve Gregory, Jim Leonard, Jon McGraw
FS: Reed Doughty, Cody Grimm
SS: Sabby Piscitelli

Special Teams
Punter: Andy Lee
Placekicker: Billy Cundiff
Kick Returner: Marc Mariani
Special Teamer: Zak DeOssie

Naturally, I had to tweak this roster a little bit, moving 4 safeties to play CB. Also moved Poz and Ruud to OLB, from their natural position of ILB, since we have two capable players there already. The rest of the players all play their natural positions.

As I see it, the biggest glaring weakness against a black team will come in the WR department. But the 4 WRs on this roster are all extremely talented athletes, who are quick, run solid routes, and have great hands. So what they may lack in straight-line speed should be made-up with these other qualities and the right game plan.

Another area of concern is CB, however, I think all 4 that I have here have played corner at one point or another in college, and possess all the requisite talent to play the position. I have no doubt they'd make the transition seamlessly.

This team has a decided edge with QB, OL, LB, and some of the special teams positions. I'd say things would be even with TE, DE and FB, while the black team would have a slight edge with interior DL and Secondary. With the emergence of Hillis, Woodhead, and what we know Gerhart can do, especially behind a good line, I think the RB is another toss-up.

So, despite all the discrimination and racism faced by white football players starting with HS->College->NFL, you take the best of them here, and I think they should win a hypothetical game like this without much of a problem.Edited by: foobar75

 

[snow]

dont forget Matt Jones, 6'6 4.3 speed, they never utilized his speed. I think Tommy Z would make an excellent corner as well he was supposed to play it at Notre Dame but they switched him. Id add Mike Wright on the line. This would definitely be a great team. Then you could have some guys like Riley Cooper (good combo of speed and size) and Chad Hall who could play rb/wr and special teams, of course some would have to be inactive on game day
Edited by: snow

 

[whiteathlete33]

Foobar, I'd go with Clark over Cooley.

 

[Mischling3rdDegree]

Thanks Woodie; I'd honestly never heard of Reggie Hodges before. Based on his picture I would guess his ancestry is 51% European, but fine, he can be black if he wants to. It looks like this will be his breakout year; he didn't put up good numbers in past seasons.

 

[white is right]

Guys if the game is tight going down to the last two minutes the Black all star team lead by Mcnabb will have problems in their two minute drill and his cardio might not be up to snuff to finish the drill. Also with a 14 wonderlic score he won't be creative.....

Just think if Mcnabb pulls his hamstring, sitting on the bench waiting to go in is Radio with a wonderlic score of 6....

Edited by: white is right

 

[northwinds]

@Foobar 75: I consider it a good thing that your initial list left off Dallas Clark and Jordan Shipley.......if there is so much white talent in the league that you can leave those guys out of the discussion then we have made some strides in the right direction..

 

[DWFan]

Guys if the game is tight going down to the last two minutes the Black all star team lead by Mcnabb will have problems in their two minute drill and his cardio might not be up to snuff to finish the drill. Also with a 14 wonderlic score he won't be creative.....

Just think if Mcnabb pulls his hamstring, sitting on the bench waiting to go in is Radio with a wonderlic score of 6....

haha did he really get a 14? The media always goes overboard trumpeting his supposed intelligence and "classiness".

 

[snow]

Guys if the game is tight going down to the last two minutes the Black all star team lead by Mcnabb will have problems in their two minute drill and his cardio might not be up to snuff to finish the drill. Also with a 14 wonderlic score he won't be creative.....

Just think if Mcnabb pulls his hamstring, sitting on the bench waiting to go in is Radio with a wonderlic score of 6....

not only that but who would start at the other positions? Moss? Ochocinco? Albert Haynesworth? Revis? Talk about a group of guys that would be hard to deal with.

 

[backrow]

the only clear advantage i can see is at the corner, and that's only because there's no white corners in the NFL(outside of Gregory, who played a bit in pros). i'll take Collie, Shipley, Decker, Walter over Wayne, Fitzgerald, Harvin etc. Hillis and Woodhead for 1-2 combo. Fullback like Evans to play a bit or someone like Karney, Hedgecock to pave the way. Kyle Williams, Gregg and Wright at DTs. tons of good, young linebackers and star ends to chose from (even if Allen is having a slower year, and so is Kampman to certain extent). Weddle and Zbikowski or Leonhard at safeties- and this team is looking mighty good!