9 Greatest Pitching Seasons

[sport historian]

Tonight, the new MLB Network listed the 9 Greatest Pitching Seasons of all time.

1. Pedro Martinez 2000
2. Walter Johnson 1913
3. Bob Gibson 1968
4. Dwight Gooden 1985
5. Greg Maddux 1995
6. Sandy Koufax 1965
7. Christy Mathewson 1908
8. Ron Guidry 1978
9. Steve Carlton 1972

 

[jaxvid]

Pedro Martinez number 1 WTF? That's some serious caste-clowning! Maybe number 20. Carlton in 1972 was the best, he won what--27 games when his team won about 60. I would also put Denny McClain's 31 wins in 1968 on the list. Three blacks in the top 4 and the one white guy is from 1913--what's the message there sports fans!!! Did you miss it, if so the caste-system isn't doing it's job.

 

[jaxvid]

I had to look it up.

Martinez 18-6, 217 innings, 284 SO. 1.74 ERA.
Gooden 1985 24-4 276.7 inn 268 K's1.53 ERA
Carlton 1972 27-10 346.3 inn 310 K 1.97 ERA (his team finished 59-97) UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

Walter Johnson 1913 36-7 346.0 2431.14

After checking it out it looks like the list is all about ERA, all the players on the list had very low ERA's during those seasons. Most of the lowest ERA's were from the old days, for instance Gooden's season ranks 41st on the list. Why they picked Walter Johnson's 1913 season and not about a hundred other white guys who had similar years back then is beyond me. Clearly the agenda was to insinuate that black pitchers are superior to white pitchers because of a couple of good years.

 

[Don Wassall]

Randy Johnson alone has had about a half dozen seasons that rank with Martinez in 2000 and Gooden in '85. How about:


1995: 18-2 214 innings 294 Ks


1997: 20-4 213 innings 291 Ks


2001: 21-6 249 innings 372 Ks


2002: 24-5 260 innings 334 Ks


How about Roger Clemens: 24-4 in '86, 20-3 in '01


Was it only starters? Dennis Eckersley and some other relievers have had amazing seasons.


Carlton's '72 season has to be #1. Nothing is comparable. Then maybe McLain in '68.Typical pandering. It's surprising Don Newcombe wasn't thrown on there somewhere.

 

[bigunreal]

What a predictable, politically correct list. Anyone with a knowledge about the history of the game should scoff at this list, particuarly their #1 choice. Yeah, I'm sure Pedro Martinez' unbelieveable 18 win season was the greatest ever for a pitcher.

So according to this list, no pitcher from 1913 to 1965 had a season worthy of note. Most bseball fans would consider this era to be the golden age of Major League Baseball. The great Walter Johnson had other spectacular seasons, and so did Christy Mathewson. Cy Young had several seasons that would have statistically shamed any of those on this list. Consider his 1901 season, when he went 33-10 with a 1.62 ERA (while completing 41 out of 43 starts). Even more impressive was Grover Cleveland Alexander's 1916 season, when he compiled a 33-12 record, with 16 shutouts and a 1.55 ERA, not to mention 45 complete games.

What about Lefty Grove's great 1931 season? He went 31-4, with a 2.06 ERA, in the midst of the most friendly era to hitters in Major League history. How about Dizzy Dean's 30-7 1934 season, the last 30 win season in National League history? Also, not including Denny McClain's 1968 season, while predictable, is inexcusable. I still regard McClain's 31 wins as the most underrated accomplishment in the history of sports. No one had won 30 games in the Major Leagues for over 30 years prior to McClain's feat, and no one has since. That seems to me to be the very definition of greatness.

I know that Greg Maddox is held in high regard by most here on this forum, but to include his 19-2 1995 season, where he only started 28 games (with 10 complete and 3 shutouts), is just ridiculous. Only Martinez' season is less noteworthy on that list. Gibson's season was great, but came at the apex of the pitcher friendly era and included only 22 wins. I can't quibble too much with the inclusion of Guidry's '78 season. Gooden's season was great, but Clemens had a very simliar '86 season and wasn't included. The inclusion of Koufax's '65 season makes no sense; he had a better season in '66, so I don't understand the thinking there. Steve Carlton's '72 season was definitely one of the best.

 

[sport historian]

The problem with Bob Gibson being rated so high is that 1968 was a year in which pitchers dominated. Sandy Koufax was the most respected pitcher of that era and was rated ahead of Gibson when both were active.

 

[Don Wassall]

1968 was far and away the worst year for hitters ever. Carl Yastrzemski led the AL in batting that year with a .301 average. The second place batter (Danny Cater if I remember correctly) hit but .290. In 1969 the pitching mound was lowered and the strike zone narrowed, four expansion teams entered MLB, and hitting quickly rebounded.


If they were going to pander they should have included Juan Marichal over Pedro Martinez. Marichal won 20 games six times in seven seasons in the '60s, including marks of 25-8, 25-6, and 26-9 in '68. I always liked watching him pitch as a kid because of his huge leg kickduring his windup. (He also clubbed black catcher John Roseboro in the head with a bat in '65, maybe the worst case of barbaric behavior in baseball history.)

 

[sport historian]

For most of the 1960's, Juan Marichal was also rated ahead of Bob Gibson. This changed after Gibson won 3 games in the 1967 World Series, but some people still though Marichal was the better pitcher.

There were several raps against Marichal. One was that he was "afraid" to pitch against certain teams (Reds and Braves), and that he fattened his record against the weaker teams. Bill James, in his 1987 Baseball Abstract, found these charges were untrue. In fact, Marichal pitched his best against the top teams according to James. Although the Giants only won one pennant, Marichal did win a lot of games in the pennant races, beating the Dodgers far more than they beat him. His lifetime record against LA was 37-18, more than 40 points better than his career winning pewrcentage. Marichal beat Don Drysdale often.

The Giants had a practice of not pitching Marichal against the other team's best, such as Koufax and Gibson. In his book, Gibson claimed that "Marichal would duck me." The truth was that this was a strategic decision by Giant manager, Herman Franks.

Gibson is seen as better than Marichal because of the Series games he won on national TV. While Gibson's 1968 season is supposed to be the 3rd best in baseball history, Marichal was 26-9 that year. Gibson was 22-9 in 1968.

 

[Don Wassall]

Here's a Sports Illustrated cover fromAugust of 1965showing Marichal's amazing leg over the head windup with the headline "Latin Conquest of the Big Leagues," showing how old MLB's obsession with "hispanics" is as well as SI's love of the Caste System. Marichal's unprovoked bloody assault on John Roseboro occurred soon after this issue came out:

Marichaltrying to club Roseboro again. Sandy Koufax (left) is among thosetryingtoend the assault:

Edited by: Don Wassall

 

[white is right]

The two best seasons I have ever seen were Guidry's and Goodens. Guidry was so dominant and nearly did thirty. Gooden had power and maybe the craziest sweet curve ball a power pitch has ever had. I'm not certain but I think Gooden was introduced to cocaine during the 85' season so that season could be even greater if he was tuned up while he pitched.....

As for Marichal did Roseboro call him black? That would put me in a homicidal mood....

 

[GWTJ]

Greg Maddux in 1994 & 1995 was the most dominant pitcher in MLB history. His stats compared to the rest of the pitchers those years in MLB was the greatest differential ever. When compared with the league batting average and league ERA, Maddux had the most dominant 5 year run in MLB history. Even better than Koufax. SI did an article on him in the mid 90's comparing the numbers.

Every pitchers stats need to be compared to other pitchers that year and the stats of the hitters as well. Martinez could have had the best season ever if the rest of the pitchers in MLB were not close to him. It is relative.

The caste system seems to have forgotten Vida blue. He had a stellar season in 1971. He was 24-8 with 24 complete games(8 shutouts). In 310 innings pitched he struck out 301 batters. He had an era of 1.82 and had a WHIP of 0.952. He also had a pretty solid career finishing up with a 209-161 record over 17 seasons. His lifetime ERA is 3.27. Not too shabby.

It seems like Vida Blue was a one year wonder for the A's in 1971 but he came up in 1969 and his last season was 1986 when he went 10-10 for the SF Giants.

I don't want to sound like I am excited about his success, but I find it interesting that he has been forgotten by the caste media.

Edited by: GWTJ

 

[jaxvid]

It seems like Vida Blue was a one year wonder for the A's in 1971 but he came up in 1969 and his last season was 1986 when he went 10-10 for the SF Giants.

I don't want to sound like I am excited about his success, but I find it interesting that he has been forgotten by the caste media.

Blue didn't have a very good career, like all black pitchers with the possible exceptions of Gibson and Ferguson Jenkins. I'm sure they didn't forget him but they probably thought that a list of:

Martinez
Gooden
Gibson
Jenkins
Blue
Newcombe
Marichal
Tiant
Sabbitha
Satchel Paige

as the 10 greatest pitching seasons of all time would be obvious to even the DWF's.

 

[Don Wassall]

Vida Blue had a long career for a black pitcher, but he still followed the basic pattern of the few that have been successful in that they lost their early dominance rather than maintaining it. In the last half of his career Blue was basically a .500 pitcher and even though he pitched 17 years he only won 209 games. Marichal's last good year came when he was 33. Gibson was a late bloomer but had only a ten year stretch of domination, ending when he was 36. Great white pitchers remain dominating into their late 30s and sometimes into their 40s.


The only exception I can think of is Luis Tiant, who had three 20 win seasons in his mid-thirties, but he had a lot of mediocre and downright bad seasons in his long career.


Dontrelle Willis is a great example of the black "shooting star" who quickly burns out. I'll be surprised if Crispy Creme Sabathia has many more elite seasons.


The same pattern seems to hold true with black quarterbacks (and black athletes in general). Warren Moon is the only one who had staying power. Maybe McNabb will be another but at 32 and his record of injuries I'd bet against him being one of the stars at his position for another six seasons.

 

[Bart]

What a predictable, politically correct list. Anyone with a knowledge about the history of the game should scoff at this list, particuarly their #1 choice. Yeah, I'm sure Pedro Martinez' unbelieveable 18 win season was the greatest ever for a pitcher...

What about Lefty Grove's great 1931 season? He went 31-4, with a 2.06 ERA, in the midst of the most friendly era to hitters in Major League history.

I had forgotten about Lefty Grove. And yes, hisERA was extremely low considering the league averages in that day were sky high.As has been mentioned there are many other candidates who should have made the list. How about Tom Seaver in in 69? He was 25-7 with a2.2 ERA. I'd even be tempted place Warren Spahn's 63 season in there. He was 23-7 with an ERA of 2.6. Not bad for a guy who started the season at 42 years of age! That was well before steroids.

 

[Bart]

I had to look it up.

Martinez 18-6, 217 innings, 284 SO. 1.74 ERA.

You know what is funny? They had Maddox listed as # 5 on that list for his his 95 season. I checked his stats. He had one more win,and four fewer losses than Pedro, and even hisERA was lower!! Insane.


In addition to winning the Cy Young that year he also received the Gold Glove award. Edited by: Bart

 

[Bart]

The problem with Bob Gibson being rated so high is that 1968 was a year in which pitchers dominated.

I believe that year saw the lowest league earned run average since the dead ball era, and hasn't been that low since.

 

[sport historian]

One reason they gave for making Martinez No. 1 was that his ERA was 1.74, while the league average in 2000 was over 5.00. This didn't stop them from placing Bob Gibson at No. 3 in "The Year of The Pitcher."

 

[Bart]

I would also put Denny McClain's 31 wins in 1968 on the list.

McClain was 31-6 with an ERA of 1.96. If Gibson can get raves for his recordthat same year of 22-9 and a very low ERA of 1.12, so should McClain, and much more so. Era is important, but Gibson had 3 more losses, and 9 less wins. All things considered, McClain smokes Gibson.


If McClain was black, that season would be chronicled as one of the most incredible achievements in the history of sports, not just baseball.

 

[jaxvid]

Denny had a high kick pitching motion too.

Edited by: jaxvid

 

[PhillyBirds]

One thing you have to think about though, is what statisitcs the show's creators used to determine this list. While it seems unlikely that the MLB Network delved very deep into advanced sabermetrics, wins are not a very good indicator of how good a pitcher is by himself. A hurler's wins and losses are largely dependent on the defensive and run-scoring capabilities of the team behind him.

No doubt the editors are racially biased in this regard, as they bumped Pedro to the top. But ideally a list like this would implement some of today's advanced baseball statistics, such as Defense Independent Pitching Statistic (DIPS, or FIP, Fielding Independent Pitching).

In baseball, defense-independent pitching statistics (DIPS) measure a pitcher's effectiveness based only on plays that do not involve fielders: home runs allowed, strikeouts, hit batters, walks, and, more recently, fly ball percentage, ground ball percentage, and (to a lesser extent) line drive percentage. Those plays are under only the pitcher's control in the sense that fielders (not including the catcher) have no effect on their outcome.

Let's have a look at Pedro and Randy Johnson's lines from that 2000 season, and try to find some whopping difference:

RJ: 248.2 IP, 347K = 12.56 K/9 IP
PM: 217.0 IP, 284K = 11.78 K/9 IP

RJ: 2.53 DIPS
PM: 2.17 DIPS

No huuuuuuge differences here.

Another stat to consider is BABIP. Batting average on balls in play (abbreviated BABIP) is a statistic measuring the percentage of plate appearances ending with a batted ball in play (excluding home runs) for which the batter is credited with a hit.

BABIP can show that a pitcher had a fluky season; consistently high or low BABIP are hard to maintain.

RJ: 2000: (.336) 2001: (.283)
PM: 2000: (.253) 2001: (.322)

Pedro had a good fluky season; Randy had a bad fluky season. Simple as that in this particular regard.

Much can be gleaned by looking past the "sexy" numbers like Wins and ERA. The deeper you go, the more bias you can uncover in a list like this.

Sorry for that. I've become a little bit of a baseball nerd in the past year. Numbers like this are fun to me (how sick is that?

)!
Edited by: PhillyBirds

 

[jaxvid]

A hurler's wins and losses are largely dependent on the defensive and run-scoring capabilities of the team behind him.

Which means that Steve Carlton's winning nearly half his teams games in 1972 for a last place team surely indicates he was better then the other guys on the list all of whom played on winning teams. I don't have the stats at hand but I would bet Carlton set some kind of winshares record for that year.

 

[PhillyBirds]

Carlton was one of the exceptions that comes around every once in a while. He was so thouroughly dominant that he won in spite of being on a terrible Phillies team. His position that far down on the list is about as egregious a placement as could be made.

I don't have the stats at hand but I would bet Carlton set some kind of winshares record for that year.

He sure did. Carlton won 27 of his teams 59 games, resulting in an MLB-record 46% winshare.Edited by: PhillyBirds

 

[jaxvid]

As far as I'm concerned Steve Carlton in 1972 had the greatest season ever as a pitcher, maybe even as a ballplayer (Ruth's 1927 might rival it) but Martinez' 2000 season doesn't even come close. It's a flat out joke to even mention them in the same breath, but such is the caste-system.

 

[Don Wassall]

I know that Greg Maddox is held in high regard by most here on this forum, but to include his 19-2 1995 season, where he only started 28 games (with 10 complete and 3 shutouts), is just ridiculous.

Don't forget that the 1995 season was shortened to 144 games because the 1994strike didn't end until the owners were about to use replacement players to begin the season.


So Maddux lost four or so starts, which makes his 19-2 record that much more impressive. Same for Randy Johnson's 18-2 that year. '95 was Maddux's peak year in an all-time great career; he would win his fourth straight Cy Young Award that season. Given the juiced ball and all the juiced hitters, Maddux's remarkable 1995 season was very worthy of inclusion.