400 meter resurgence

[mattharper]

Hey WL is it me or do there seem to be a lot more white 400 runners running sub 45 in the last 4 or 5 years as opposed to 20 years ago? I have been following track since 1988 and until Potter, Wariner and others showed up it seemed like for 17 years the only whites to run sub 45 was Englands Rober Black and Iwan Thomas and Germanys Thomas Sholenweib. <div>Coincidentally I looked up 60 meter dash times from ten years ago and we had 10 or 11 guys going sub 6.60 like Gabor Dobos, Roland Nemeth, Theodorides, Lovegren, Papadias, Pavlakakis and others we now only have 1 sub 6.60 in Lemaitre. Do you think white sprinters are starting to move away from the shorter sprints and concentrating on the 200 and 400? Just a thought.</div>

 

[mattharper]

Sorry Roger Black not Rober Black.

 

[white lightning]

Great question Matt. Yes I do think more whites are running the quarter. Ever since Wariner proved that whites can dominate the event, more white sprinters have taken up running the 400. Europeans have also been known for a great combo of sprint, strength and endurance. It is the perfect fit in my opinion. I do think that Wariner was mostly responsible for getting the movement starting and I believe that guys like Lemaitre and Guliyev and do the same thing for the 100 &amp; 200 meters. There is no reason why we cannot compete over the shorter distances. We just need more guys to take up the event who have the genetics and the desire to train to be the best.

One thing I love about Lemaitre is how much he hates to lose. Wariner is the same way. You have to be that type of competitor to become the best. These guys have what it takes! Keep up the great posts my friend.

 

[GiovaniMarcon]

I really hope Solinksi can help spark more interest in kids to take up the 5k and 10k track race.

Obviously, from a stereotypical standpoint, Solinksi is a hulking guy and all wrong for the 5000 and 10000, yet if he can dip under 27 minutes in the 10k (BTW -- something Jon Entine flat out said was "impossible" for a White to do), imagine what shorter, skinnier kids can do, too?

 

[mattharper]

Thanks White Lightning. One more question. What is really wrong with elite white 100 meter sprinters? I dont think its genetic. Other than Shirvington, Lemaitre, and Macrozanaris most whites run that one fast 10.1 race and they never come close again. COme on I mean like Papadias, Hoogmoed, Chirs Choidis, Theodoridis, Yepishin, Pavlakakis, Rurak, Dologgodin, Marcolidis, Stefano Tillio, Cerute, DiGregorio, Tomassichio, Darius Kuc, Lucas Chyla, Marsh from australia, Steve Brimacomb, Ross ( I dont think hes Aboriginal ), Shingo Kawabata, ( I can name at least 7 Japanese sprinters that have hit 10.1 the last decade) , Kosenkow, Unger and so many others. <div>I remember hearing Armin Harry worked at a bank full time in Germany and never got the chance to train full time. Is it me or do many of these above mentioned sprinters have to work full time to support themselves and all the good black sprinters ( at least in America ) dont have to work at all and get paid to train year round. There have been to many white sprinters that get so close and they just dissapear and I could have metioned Pickering or the Canadian guy who ran from Syracuse U. and got injured.</div>

 

[Observer]

I remember hearing Armin Harry worked at a bank full time in Germany and never got the chance to train full time. Is it me or do many of these above mentioned sprinters have to work full time to support themselves and all the good black sprinters ( at least in America ) dont have to work at all and get paid to train year round. There have been to many white sprinters that get so close and they just dissapear and I could have metioned Pickering or the Canadian guy who ran from Syracuse U. and got injured.</div>

mattharper, interesting. You earlier mentioned Mitch Potter as a pre-400 resurgence person. Actually, both Potter and Steele, both from the UofM, running the #1 and #3 times in the world in the NCAA finals in their junior year. And then somewhat sub-par senior years for both of them. This is the part that ties in with what you mention about working. Basically, as I understand, both of these excellent 400 men were busy with senior year classes (one was fulfulling student-teaching requirements at another location) and simply could not get the time in to do enough training.

Unless someone is a truly off-the-chart talent (like Wariner), it seems that these white kids, at least in America, often have other options that seem more prudent to pursue. My impression is that Australia is somewhat the same way. I'm glad to see Jordan Boase giving it a good run. He is a serious talent and it'd be nice to see what he can do if he stays healthy. I have no idea what kind of income he has from the shoe endorsements (I think with Nike).

If I'm from Ethiopia, for instance, and I know that I'm not good enough to win on a regular basis, but still can place 5th or 6th; well, that might earn me a good sum of money relative to living standards in my home country. However, such an income would probably not be a great amount if living in a white country.

 

[j41181]

Andrew Rock... he was the best white 400 runner behind Wariner then.

(Olympics) Athens 2004
- Gold 4x400 m relay

(World Championships) Helsinki 2005
- Gold 4x400 m relay
- Silver 400 m (44.35)

Personal 400 m Best - 44.35

 

[white is right]

I remember hearing Armin Harry worked at a bank full time in Germany and never got the chance to train full time. Is it me or do many of these above mentioned sprinters have to work full time to support themselves and all the good black sprinters ( at least in America ) dont have to work at all and get paid to train year round. There have been to many white sprinters that get so close and they just dissapear and I could have metioned Pickering or the Canadian guy who ran from Syracuse U. and got injured.</div>

mattharper, interesting. You earlier mentioned Mitch Potter as a pre-400 resurgence person. Actually, both Potter and Steele, both from the UofM, running the #1 and #3 times in the world in the NCAA finals in their junior year. And then somewhat sub-par senior years for both of them. This is the part that ties in with what you mention about working. Basically, as I understand, both of these excellent 400 men were busy with senior year classes (one was fulfulling student-teaching requirements at another location) and simply could not get the time in to do enough training.

Unless someone is a truly off-the-chart talent (like Wariner), it seems that these white kids, at least in America, often have other options that seem more prudent to pursue. My impression is that Australia is somewhat the same way. I'm glad to see Jordan Boase giving it a good run. He is a serious talent and it'd be nice to see what he can do if he stays healthy. I have no idea what kind of income he has from the shoe endorsements (I think with Nike).

If I'm from Ethiopia, for instance, and I know that I'm not good enough to win on a regular basis, but still can place 5th or 6th; well, that might earn me a good sum of money relative to living standards in my home country. However, such an income would probably not be a great amount if living in a white country.

Yes there is no doubt that Western countries lose talent to other sports because unless your the champion or close to being a champion pursuing track and field is an economic waste of your time. The Canadian A card athlete earns about 1600 a month clear. You can earn that at nearly any warehouse job or labourer job.

 

[white lightning]

For the question about the lack of white sprinters in the 100 &amp; 200 meters. There are a multitude of reasons for this. One is racial stereotyping like what goes on in football and basketball. It is perceived that blacks are faster and there for many track colleges push their white athletes into the field events or into longer distances to compete. This is a shame as many potential sprinters are lost to other events.

Another factor is that whites go into many different sports. We actually dominate more sports than any other ethnicity. We are good at just about every sport known. Whites also pursue school on the average alot more seriously similar to asians. So many different diversions and alot of whites also become musicians. To excel at an indivual event takes alot of time and effort. Most are driven away by other interests, the family pushing them another direction and most coach's not believing in them.

There is no reason whites should not be competetive in the sprints. Whites did very well all the way up until the 1960's. After the civil rights movement, alot of sports including athletics starting going after the black athletes first and foremost. The stereotypes then came over the next 4 or 5 decades until we are where we are at today. Most of the good white sprinters both male and female come from Europe where the stereotypes are not as bad. America would be a hot bed for white sprinters if we could just get more participation. I hope the future will be better.

We need role models for the kids to look up to. Role models that look like the kids themselves. I really hope Christophe Lemaitre can have the same effect as Wariner. Now if we could only get a few guys from the US to excel in track and stick with the sport.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

For the question about the lack of white sprinters in the 100 &amp; 200 meters. There are a multitude of reasons for this. One is racial stereotyping like what goes on in football and basketball. It is perceived that blacks are faster and there for many track colleges push their white athletes into the field events or into longer distances to compete. This is a shame as many potential sprinters are lost to other events.

Another factor is that whites go into many different sports. We actually dominate more sports than any other ethnicity. We are good at just about every sport known. Whites also pursue school on the average alot more seriously similar to asians. So many different diversions and alot of whites also become musicians. To excel at an indivual event takes alot of time and effort. Most are driven away by other interests, the family pushing them another direction and most coach's not believing in them.

There is no reason whites should not be competetive in the sprints. Whites did very well all the way up until the 1960's. After the civil rights movement, alot of sports including athletics starting going after the black athletes first and foremost. The stereotypes then came over the next 4 or 5 decades until we are where we are at today. Most of the good white sprinters both male and female come from Europe where the stereotypes are not as bad. America would be a hot bed for white sprinters if we could just get more participation. I hope the future will be better.

We need role models for the kids to look up to. Role models that look like the kids themselves. I really hope Christophe Lemaitre can have the same effect as Wariner. Now if we could only get a few guys from the US to excel in track and stick with the sport.

white lightning hit the nail on the head with his above comments, and i've highlighted those that i found especially poignant. i will give just a couple of facts that provide some anecdotal evidence that he is correct.

in the state of Arkansas, last year the fastest senior in the state was a White kid (Neill Braddy) who won the big school state track championship in the 100, the 200, the 400, the long jump, and the 4x400 relay (if i recall correctly).

however, the year before the 3 fastest seniors (according to 40 times from football combines) in the state didn't even run track. instead, they all played baseball. oh, and they were White. of course, despite also being first-team all-state as defensive backs, wide receivers, and running backs, NONE of them were offered scholarships to play Division One football ... they all ended up playing Division One baseball, where fast, athletic White kids are allowed to be on the team.

many parents and kids have the impression that White athletes are inferior to their black peers, and so they steer (or are steered) into more White-friendly sports. this self-segregation is yet another aspect of the problem that perpetuates the Caste System.