2019 MLB Season

[Shadowlight]

The history of success for the slighter non power hitting white speedster in MLB in modern times has been scant to say the least. Most of these type of players get stuck in the minors and disappear as if they never existed.

So why even bring this up I ask myself? The odds are pretty strong Astros speed demon OF Myles Straw will fail like most of the others. Straw is a fringe prospect who was not drafted high and is 24. Sounds like another career minor leaguer. He got a brief taste of the big leagues last year and was just called up this weekend. He went 0-4 Saturday but yesterday his tools were in full view going 3-4 with 3 stolen bases. He manned LF. I pray for his success despite the bad odds. He has startling speed.

Teams have very little interest in white speedsters like Straw.

The only recent speedster to have hung around lately is Brett Gardner who is still with the Yankees 13 years on. Brett was a back up for two years but stole 39 bases during that time. He became a starter at the age of 26 and the rest is history. A solid clutch player who plays the game the right way. Not a star per say but still a valuable cog for the Yankees all these years. And one of my favorite players.

The A's Billy Burns was heading down that same path when at 25 he batted .294 in 320 at bats with 26 stolen bases in 2015. Like Gardner he had warp speed. He slumped a bit the next year and the lights went out fast. He was traded to KC who disposed of him the next year. He has never been back. This is a full example of the lack of patience teams have with non power hitting white speedsters. Virtually no interest in watching their careers grow.

Even going back to the Braves Brett Butler back in the early 80's. Despite the hype, Brett didn't become a full time player until he was 26. And after showing his talents as a leadoff speedster he was quickly traded to the Indians. And then he bounced around a lot for a player of his caliber.

Same thing with Scott Podsednik. A 100 meter track star Pod took forever to get a chance at the big league level. He rotted in Seattle and then with the Brewers in 2003 he broke through at 27. Yet they got rid of him too despite his production. He was the rare white speedster CF in recent times that won a World Series which was with the White Sox in 2005. But they got rid of him too and like most white speedsters not named Brett Gardner Pod bounced around teams too.

Garrett Hampson is a Rockies IF speedster who just got called up again but is struggling to hit .200. The leash will tighten on him in a hurry if he doesn't hit better. He is also 24.

Off the top of my head only the Nationals Trea Turner comes to mind in recent history as a first round speedster non known for power who has secured a spot at a relatively young age. He became a full time starter at 24 in 2016. Yet even Trea was traded by the team that originally drafted him, the Padres.

The above scenarios and players are still rare which makes the odds of Straw actually becoming a full fledged starter in MLB highly doubtful. But for the moment I want to enjoy his big game yesterday as he was able to put his supersonic speed into play.

See below article and highlights of Straw creating havoc on the base paths.

https://www.mlb.com/news/myles-straw-leads-astros-to-sweep

 

[TwentyTwo]

Excellent baseball thread! Need to come visit more often! Trout & Bregman are my favorite players! Always enjoy the speedsters too...i remember Meadows & Frazier in that same Draft. Wonder what Trae Turner's 40 time is??

In tonight's MLB Draft...Arizona State OF Hunter Bishop (6'-5" 210) was Selected 1st Round / #10 Overall by SF Giants. He was a Big Time WR Prospect in HS & was set to play Football at Washington. ; thought had the chance to play NFL ball. But chose baseball instead. Wonder what he thinks of David Sills going Undrafted??

 

[Shadowlight]

Hunter Bishop has a lot of raw talent but the concern is he swings and misses too often. While he doesn't quite have the speed of former MLB player Drew Stubbs, who also was a star WR in high school, Bishop could follow a similar path. I hope he does one better because Stubbs missed the boat even though he did play in the big leagues.

if Bishop pans out and becomes a solid MLB player I won't have a beef. If he fails then put him on the long list of white football stars who made the wrong choice.

As for Trea Turner his 60 yard dash times could be as low as 6.25 ( range) which is literally flying. In college he did run the 40 yard dash and the readings are 4.37 and 4.27. These are unofficial times and perhaps they were run on different years?

The fastest white baseball prospect I recall in the past 25 years or so was Chad Green who went to Kentucky. I have mentioned him before and maybe will again soon but he also was a two sport athlete that Lou Holtz when he was at Notre Dame football was recruiting hard. He definitely chose the wrong sport.

 

[Truthteller]

One of the Latin players I've often thought was very likely a Steroid creation, is Phillies outfielder Odubel Herrera. The other night I was watching the Dodgers game and the announcer said Herrera was suspended. Considering Herrera had only 14 HR's in 612 minor league games (2604 PA's), then suddenly became a slugging outfielder with light-tower power in Philly, I assumed he was finally popped for Steroids. Turns out MLB's lax testing did not catch him. He was suspended for Domestic Violence (Roid Rage?), so he'll be out for quite a while -- perhaps the balance of the season? Anyhow, Phillies have moved vastly underrated athlete and potential Gold-Glove shortstop Scott Kingery to centerfield. Hate to lose a quality white shortstop, but at least Kingery can start every day now, then move back to SS some day?

In recent years the Phillies have mostly been a Latin/Dominican team (every day lineup) and I've rooted against them. Things got so bad last year that Philly legend Mike Schmidt was almost fired as a TV broadcaster for merely suggesting that Herrera might not be a great fit as team captain because he wasn't fluent in English. Schmidt apologized to the Marxist media a million times and kept his job. But signing Bryce Harper and trading for J.T. Realmuto, to go along with 2018 token cracker/starter Reese Hoskins, makes them more watchable. In the short-term, they will still be a team I will continue to root against -- in terms of making the playoffs. But that could change soon.

They have Mickey Moniak, the #1 overall pick in the 2016 draft. Moniak has not been a smash success at an early age, like Mike Trout and Harper were, but he recently turned 21 and he's steadily improving. And don't forget, unlike a lot of these Dominican "teen phenoms", it's doubtful Moniak is a serious steroid user. Speaking of potential steroid freaks, Phillies current third baseman is starting to fade fast (Yasiel Puig style) after looking like the greatest prospect on the planet a few years ago. So much so, that the Phil's used their 3rd overall pick in 2018 on Wichita State's Alec Bohm, who is widely compared to Kris Bryant. Centerfielder Adam Haseley, a top 10 pick in 2017 recently promoted to AAA, is another to watch. And unlike Moniak, he's really lit things up in the minors. Although, in fairness, Adam played big time college ball; Mickey signed out of high school.

One last point on the Phillies: African American outfielders Nick Williams and Aaron Altherr were both highly regarded prospects that had decent seasons in the last two years. I'm sure Philly DWF's saw them as long-term, entrenched starters as recently as 12 months ago. Currently both appear to be "busting" at the ages of 25 (Williams) and 28 (Altherr) and could be out of the Majors soon. Altherr was cut last week and picked up by the Mets. He's currently hitting .054 this season, after hitting .272 with 19HR's and 65 RBI's in 2017. Williams is hitting .165 with 1 HR and 4 RBI's after strong 2017/2018 seasons.

Hate to quote myself, but things are evolving much faster than I expected in Philadelphia! In one of the quickest turnarounds from totally Caste the last several years (usually only 1 to 2 white starters -- including pitcher), to possibly white friendly, Philadelphia started 7 whites last night?

Shades of the 1993 N.L. Champion Philadelphia Phillies, who Keith Oberdorkk of BSPN often complained about on Sports Center (around 1994/95) for being too white and "lacking diversity"? Olberclownn constantly railed about the mid-1990's Phillies having 8 to 9 starters most nights. I wonder why he didn't hold your average NBA and NFL team to the same standard?

As noted above, the the Phillies are without slumping outfielder Odubel Herrera due to a domestic violence suspension -- which could end his season and career in Philly? Andrew McCutchen recently tore his ACL -- out for the season; at his age, career could be in jeopardy?

Phillies recently traded for Jay Bruce, who hit 2 HR's and drove in 6 runs last night. Also, top prospect Adam Haseley has been summoned to the majors, he turned 23 earlier this spring. Looking ahead, Phil's Dominican 3B, who was once considered a rising superstar, continues to hit some HR's (who isn't between the juiced the balls and steroids?), but has been terrible in just about every other aspect and could be gone soon! How long before we see their other top prospect, Alec Bohm, who is widely compared to Kris Bryant?

By the way, once highly regarded African American prospects/outfielders Nick Williams and Aaron Altherr (now with Mets) have been demoted to the minors on consecutive days, due to stunning (bad) batting averages.


One more quick note: Older (28) prospect Garrett Cooper got off to horrific start for the horrid Miami Marlins and it looked like BSPN and Baseball America types would be proven correct, predicting he'd be a career minor leaguer. Not so fast, the 6'6" Cooper from Auburn is suddenly one of the hottest hitters in baseball. Keep an eye on him.

 

[Booth]

I think about Kirk Gibson and what he could have done if chose football instead of baseball. He ran a 4,28 forty for the football scouts and decided to play baseball. I don't know if he thought he would a longer career in baseball or not but he stayed hurt a lot in pro ball. I would have loved to seen him burning those blacks dbs for long tds.

 

[Don Wassall]

Kirk Gibson was a great athlete and just had the look and attitude about him of one. Here's a few highlights from his Michigan State career. BTW this video has just 260 views in the nine months since it was posted.

 

[FootballDad]

I think that Gibson made the right choice though. He was an outstanding baseball player and an exceptional leader. Some of my favorite years of being a Dodgers fan were the Kirk Gibson years. Even in baseball, he ended up with bad knee injuries, I wonder if he would have had an injury-plagued NFL career had he chosen that path.

 

[La France Blanche]

I was thinking about this while watching Mike Trout at bat. To cut down on intentional walks, the league should institute a rule where if a batter walks on four balls and zero strikes, any man on base advances one base whether or not he's forced.

 

[Flint]

Gibby is a big home town hero here in Detroit. He was a guy that performed in the clutch. Still very popular. He does the Tigers TV broadcasts and is suffering from Parkinson's. It's unfortunate to see a great athlete going down hill but he has handled it with class.

While I'm glad he chose baseball he would have been a beast in football too.

 

[Shadowlight]

Kirk Gibson was a great athlete and just had the look and attitude about him of one. Here's a few highlights from his Michigan State career. BTW this video has just 260 views in the nine months since it was posted.

All of this Kirk Gibson talk was going to trigger me because he is one of those touchstone athletes for me (see Rex Chapman) who I still think about. I still continue to hope another similar player comes along. One has not unfortunately.

Despite the fact he bagged an MVP with the Dodgers in 1988 ( and he played hurt hero in their World Series win) and had several very good years with the Tigers I feel like Booth above he was actually a better football prospect.

I never heard of Kirk Gibson the WR until some college all star game was on TV and he caught a long TD. I forgot about him for a spell after that but then his name started to crop up with the Tigers. Then SI put him on the cover and it set my hair on fire.

His 4.25 or 4.28 speed in the 40, depending on which source, was revelatory. He was projected to probably be drafted in the top ten and would have been the first WR off the board. But he was dead set on playing baseball. The Cardinals even drafted him late in the hope he would change his mind and choose football over baseball. I thought my God is this Mickey Mantle? Athletically he was as close as a human being could get. Raw strength and speed beyond comprehension. And he was a natural with long limbs, ranginess and a barrel chest. The guy was a monster. He was like some thoroughbred horse. Sparky Anderson thought he was the next Mickey Mantle early on.

People point to Bo Jackson as the athletic wonder of the age but hell Kirk was looser and less stiff than Bo. And a better baseball player. The media portrays Kirk limping around the bases and focuses on Bo running fast but for my money Kirk was the better overall athlete.

At 22 Kirk got his first taste of the big leagues. Watching him ferociously swing the bat and run the bases like a cheetah was exhilarating. He managed 175 at bats the following year and batted .263 but things weren't progressing as fast as people wanted including me. He batted .328 in his third season (1981) and stole 17 bases in 290 at bats. Strangely he only managed 266 at bats the next year. Injuries? I don't remember of course. But he settled in at CF in 1983 with 401 at bats but only hit .227. He did manage 9 triples. He was already 26 and all that Mickey Mantle talk turned out to be a distant whisper.

1984 was the a magical year for the Tigers as they ran roughshod over everyone to win the World Series. Kirk had his best season yet clobbering 27 home runs and 10 triples to go along with 29 stolen bases and hit a solid .282 in 531 at bats. Oddly I think he started playing a lot of RF at that time. I would have to research what year he was moved from CF to RF? I just remember him standing out in RF the year they won it all.

The next three years were solid but for some reason Kirk landed with the Dodgers in 1988 and had his best year ever. After that, like Mantle, he was injury prone and the rest of his career was unremarkable. In fact I think he was always dealing with various ailments. He retired after the 1995 season. He had a comeback season of sorts in 1994 after returning to Detroit and hit 23 home runs and batted .276. But he was still a shell of his former self as his broken down body let him down. My memory of Kirk gets sketchy . Gibson's prime occurred with Larry Bird's rise in the NBA.

Did he choose the wrong sport? That is a bar room debate that could last for days. Given the historical moments he was involved with in baseball things turned out pretty well for Kirk despite the overall sense he underachieved.

But when you think about his size at 6'3" and 225 pounds and his rocket ship speed you wonder if he might have been a Hall Of fame talent as a WR in football. The ultimate deep threat. We will never know.

I am still waiting for the next Kirk Gibson though. So far no luck.

But I am happy Mike Trout is around anyway who has quickly become one of my all time favorite baseball players. And Trout is a better player than Gibson was no question about that.

 

[sport historian]

All of this Kirk Gibson talk was going to trigger me because he is one of those touchstone athletes for me (see Rex Chapman) who I still think about. I still continue to hope another similar player comes along. One has not unfortunately.

Despite the fact he bagged an MVP with the Dodgers in 1988 ( and he played hurt hero in their World Series win) and had several very good years with the Tigers I feel like Booth above he was actually a better football prospect.

I never heard of Kirk Gibson the WR until some college all star game was on TV and he caught a long TD. I forgot about him for a spell after that but then his name started to crop up with the Tigers. Then SI put him on the cover and it set my hair on fire.

His 4.25 or 4.28 speed in the 40, depending on which source, was revelatory. He was projected to probably be drafted in the top ten and would have been the first WR off the board. But he was dead set on playing baseball. The Cardinals even drafted him late in the hope he would change his mind and choose football over baseball. I thought my God is this Mickey Mantle? Athletically he was as close as a human being could get. Raw strength and speed beyond comprehension. And he was a natural with long limbs, ranginess and a barrel chest. The guy was a monster. He was like some thoroughbred horse. Sparky Anderson thought he was the next Mickey Mantle early on.

People point to Bo Jackson as the athletic wonder of the age but hell Kirk was looser and less stiff than Bo. And a better baseball player. The media portrays Kirk limping around the bases and focuses on Bo running fast but for my money Kirk was the better overall athlete.

At 22 Kirk got his first taste of the big leagues. Watching him ferociously swing the bat and run the bases like a cheetah was exhilarating. He managed 175 at bats the following year and batted .263 but things weren't progressing as fast as people wanted including me. He batted .328 in his third season (1981) and stole 17 bases in 290 at bats. Strangely he only managed 266 at bats the next year. Injuries? I don't remember of course. But he settled in at CF in 1983 with 401 at bats but only hit .227. He did manage 9 triples. He was already 26 and all that Mickey Mantle talk turned out to be a distant whisper.

1984 was the a magical year for the Tigers as they ran roughshod over everyone to win the World Series. Kirk had his best season yet clobbering 27 home runs and 10 triples to go along with 29 stolen bases and hit a solid .282 in 531 at bats. Oddly I think he started playing a lot of RF at that time. I would have to research that.

The next three years were solid but for some reason Kirk landed with the Dodgers in 1988 and had his best year ever. After that, like Mantle, he was injury prone and the rest of his career was unremarkable. In fact I think he was always dealing with various ailments. He retired after the 1995 season. He had a comeback season of sorts in 1994 after returning to Detroit and hit 23 Home Runs and batted .276. But he was still a shell of his former self as his broken down body let him down.

Did he choose the wrong sport? That is a bar room debate that could last for days. Given the historical moments he was involved with in baseball things turned out pretty well for Kirk despite the overall sense he underachieved.

But when you think about his size at 6'3" and 225 pounds and his rocket ship speed you wonder if he might have been a Hall Of fame talent as a WR in football. We will never know.

I am still waiting for the next Kirk Gibson though. So far no luck.

But I am happy Mike Trout is around anyway who has quickly become one of my all time favorite baseball players. And Trout is a better player than Gibson was no question about that.

I recall reading a comment by Kirk Gibson when he signed with the Tigers. It seems the Darryl Stingley incident influenced him not to play pro football. Stingley was a WR with the Patriots who was paralyzed from the neck down after a hit by Raider DB Jack Tatum in a 1978 preseason game. Gibson thought the pro DB's "would kill you."

As a baseball player Gibson was always injury prone. He would hurt himself swinging in the batting cage.

Gibson never lost the football mentality and carried it into baseball. I once saw an interview where he said "In football I learned to defeat the opponent mentally and physically." Gibson had football speed, which is way faster than baseball speed. Gibson easily stole bases and could score from second on a wild pitch.

 

[Shadowlight]

Gibson had football speed, which is way faster than baseball speed

As a history buff I enjoy sports historian's posts. But I cannot let this comment stand. Kirk Gibson had extraordinary speed. To say that football speed is way faster than baseball speed does not compute for me.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt regarding context but if you are saying the top end speed of football players is faster than the top end speed of baseball players I not only disagree but the evidence suggests the reverse could be true.

Granted stolen base numbers don't obviously always reflect a player's speed. It was said Dodgers CF Willie Davis was their fastest runner despite the fact Maury Wills stole a lot more bases. And Davis hit a lot of triples.

But for the sake of measuring things consider this. Deion Sanders was generally considered the fastest man in football when he played. 4.2 speed etc. And in general he was an extremely fast baseball player. He led the league in triples with 14 in only over 300 at bats in 1992. But he also led the league in caught stealing in 1994 with 16 in 54 attempts. And he wasn't close to the leaders in steals that year which included players like Otis Nixon, Vince Coleman, Kenny Lofton and Marquis Grissom. To put it mildly those guys could fly.

Even in his one big stolen base season in 1997 where Sanders stole 56 bases he still trailed four other players including Nixon, Chuck Knoblauch, Tony Womack and Brian Hunter. And Brady Anderson stole 31 bases that year and was caught only once.

Sure there are a lot of slow baseball players but if one was to ask me which sport has the fastest top end players I would probably lean towards baseball. Baseball historically has had players with otherworldly speed. Mickey Mantle and Richie Ashburn, just to name two, could burn rubber like the Road Runner in that cartoon.

 

[La France Blanche]

Semi-personal note. Peter Lambert made his major league debut today, starting for the Rockies and striking out nine, walking one, and giving up only four hits and one run, in 7 innings en route to picking up the win over the Cubs. He also hit a single in his first major league at-bat.

My younger brother went to high school with Peter. This kid's got a bright future ahead of him.

 

[sport historian]

As a history buff I enjoy sports historian's posts. But I cannot let this comment stand. Kirk Gibson had extraordinary speed. To say that football speed is way faster than baseball speed does not compute for me.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt regarding context but if you are saying the top end speed of football players is faster than the top end speed of baseball players I not only disagree but the evidence suggests the reverse could be true.

Granted stolen base numbers don't obviously always reflect a player's speed. It was said Dodgers CF Willie Davis was their fastest runner despite the fact Maury Wills stole a lot more bases. And Davis hit a lot of triples.

But for the sake of measuring things consider this. Deion Sanders was generally considered the fastest man in football when he played. 4.2 speed etc. And in general he was an extremely fast baseball player. He led the league in triples with 14 in only over 300 at bats in 1992. But he also led the league in caught stealing in 1994 with 16 in 54 attempts. And he wasn't close to the leaders in steals that year which included players like Otis Nixon, Vince Coleman, Kenny Lofton and Marquis Grissom. To put it mildly those guys could fly.

Even in his one big stolen base season in 1997 where Sanders stole 56 bases he still trailed four other players including Nixon, Chuck Knoblauch, Tony Womack and Brian Hunter. And Brady Anderson stole 31 bases that year and was caught only once.

Sure there are a lot of slow baseball players but if one was to ask me which sport has the fastest top end players I would probably lean towards baseball. Baseball historically has had players with otherworldly speed. Mickey Mantle and Richie Ashburn, just to name two, could burn rubber like the Road Runner in that cartoon.

At the ABC Superteams competition in the 1970's, defensive linemen Randy White, Too Tall Jones, and Harvey Martin easily outran baseball base stealers whom they outweighed by 60-70 pounds.

In his MVP year, Kirk Gibson stole 31 bases in 35 attempts. Stealing bases is a matter of technique as much as speed. Neon Deion didn't bother to learn base stealing mechanics but would easily beat the players you mentioned in a sprint. Easily.

Your comparison of Willie Davis and Maury Wills proves my point.

 

[Shadowlight]

Your comparison of Willie Davis and Maury Wills proves my point.

I have to admit I am completely lost in space here. I have no idea what you are talking about SH. In a recent side by side comparison current speedster Billy Hamilton ran out a triple faster than Deion Sanders. I brought up Sanders because he was considered the fastest NFL player for years. Sure that isn't an exact science but to suggest baseball players aren't even in the same ballpark as football regarding speed rings hollow to me.

The history of baseball is full of players with blinding speed so I can't even begin to digest what you are saying. And many of those speedsters were white.

Yes stolen bases don't always reflect pure speed but it is a useful indicator in general.

As for Willie Davis ( of the Dodgers) he played baseball. And he ran a 9.5 100 yard dash in high school which would have made him the fastest or closest to fastest football player of that period.

Many baseball players through the years were sprint champs in high school. Scott Podsednik was one. And he wasn't even considered the fastest player in his draft. That belonged to McKay Christensen who yes played high school football but ultimately chose baseball like a lot of two sport athletes end up doing.



I could write a book on the subject of baseball speedsters but when watching footage of Mickey Mantle run in his youth I wouldn't bet against him in any race against a football player. A speeding locomotive pretty much describes Mickey Mantle when he was running.

Perhaps you can convince some here and elsewhere on your argument but with me I am standing firm in my beliefs. Just the same I do enjoy your posts.

 

[Shadowlight]

While on the subject of speed Myles Straw of the Astros has made his presence felt in the few games he has played since being called up. See below and article and video of his key 11 second triple that set up the winning run last night. He is the fastest player in their organization.

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/MLB...-hits-blazing-11-second-triple/1171559919427/



The Astros have a lot of athletic white OFs and due to injuries (Springer) they are getting playing time and they are still winning. It helps to have 3B Alex Bregman who can field and hit for power.

Derek Fisher, another speedster, has played well in his limited but increased playing time and CF Jake Marisnick continues to play stellar defense with his speed and instincts in the outfield. Hitting has always been the issue with him but so far he is holding up fairly well in that department.

And they have another youngster OF in the minors Kyle Tucker who has hit 22 home runs this season already. He is 22 and a lot is expected out of him. While not a speedster per say he is a solid all around athlete. So there is a logjam of OFs with the Astros so expect at least one of them to be moved by next season.

Truthteller posted about these players last season and caught me by surprise with Straw. I rarely screw these matters up but I had forgotten that Straw was white.

 

[Truthteller]

Nice posts Shadowlight. I want to touch an several topics. I'll try to do it a briefly as possible:

Kirk Gibson: Do not remember Gibson as a football player, but it was noted repeatedly during his MLB career he was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals as a WR, so I knew he was good. Due to his size, I assumed he was a bigger, possession wideout/speed tight end type in the Jay Novacek mold? Boy was I wrong!....Didn't know how good he was, until I read in Pro Football Weekly (around 1999) about Randy Moss, who absolutely terrorized NFL DB's as a rookie. PFW asked a head scout if he had ever seen a prospect as good Moss. The scout said yes, Kirk Gibson at Michigan State. Wow! Scout might've been Gil Brandt? Since then, I've seen that scout's quote regarding Gibby on several football websites and message boards.

Myles Straw: Just looking at his name, can't blame you for assuming Straw was black. As I've noted many times I've locked ESPN/ESPN 2 on my sets (since 2016), because I despise the Marxist network so much, that I don't even want to spend a minute a day watching. I very rarely unlock it briefly (about 15 times a year) just to watch some NFL and MLB games. Nonetheless, when I'm out or elsewhere I will get nostalgic for a few minutes and watch/monitor it when it's on. The other night even ubber Social Justice Warrior Scott Van Pelt was drooling over Straw's speed. I seriously doubt many NFL DB's or WR's are faster than him. And there is no way any NFL defensive lineman can out run him.

Jack Mayfield: I see Straw is even playing shortstop due to injuries? In a recent post I mentioned the Astros brought up 29 year old rookie SS Jack Mayfield. At first glance, I thought Mayfield was white. Some here might still count him as white, but he's from Del Rio, Texas (4 miles from the border) and clearly of Mexican decent. Mayfield hit his first MLB HR last night, but is only 2 for 27. Unless he picks things up fast, he'll be a career AAAA (4A) player -- too good for AAA; but not MLB caliber. And his age does not help his cause going forward. That could open up a spot for the much younger Straw as a backup middle infielder/speed outfielder in the short term? Remember, due to bloated pitching staffs, A.L. teams usually have only 3 bench players. At points last season, Houston had a 2 man bench. Don't forget, every team must have a backup catcher, so A.L. bench spots are not easy to get.

Houston Astros: I've mentioned in recent posts how many great white prospects the Philadelphia Phillies have. Between acquiring Harper and Realmuto and the top picks rising, the Phil's have gone from clearly the least white friendly team in MLB for several years now, to one of the most white friendly teams today. You are correct, the Astros also have a ton of white prospects in the pipeline: Tucker, Fisher, Straw, Garrett Stubbs, A.J. Reed and others. That's not counting older prospects like Tyler White. Difference between the Phillies and Astros, however, is Philly's prospects are displacing mediocre or "troubled" MLB players. Tucker, Fisher and the others have to beat out some All-Star caliber players and have a tougher road ahead, like J.D. Davis, who they were forced to trade to the Mets due to roster issues.

Drew Henson: About two decades after Kirk Gibson came up, USA Today and others were buzzing about multi-sport star Henson. In football he was considered a future NFL Franchise quarterback. In baseball he was a considered a "can't miss/5-tool prospect". It was mentioned that if the Michigan native had stuck with hockey, he could've been a modern day Gordie Howe? Henson spent fall/winter quarterbacking at Michigan, where he sent Tom Brady to the bench at times. In the spring and summer he played 3B in the minors for the Reds and Yankees. Greatness was too follow for Henson in the early 2000's, right? Wrong, the modern day Kirk Gibson was a total dud. He eventually left Michigan to concentrate on baseball, but only got a brief look in MLB with the Yankees and was overwhelmed to the point he left baseball and jumped back to football. Around 2004 Dallas was struggling to replace Troy Aikman, so they eagerly signed Henson and allowed him to start. Another total train wreck. Perhaps he should've pursued an NHL career?

Herb Washington: Never saw him play/run; but I wish I did. Washington might've been the most unique player in MLB history for the dominant 1970's Oakland A's teams: He was a huge track star and held a full time roster spot as a "designated runner" or "pinch runner". As fast as he was and all the coaching he got, he was a limited impact base stealer, much like Deion Sanders: https://www.mlb.com/cut4/a-retrospective-on-designated-runner-herb-washington/c-239097862

 

[Shadowlight]

Yes the Drew Henson story is one hell of a cautionary tale. I remember all the next Elway talk but yes he came up short in both football and baseball. I thought he was a better football prospect but in retrospect it is hard to tell. Baseball is a much more difficult sport to master than football and I think athletes need to think long and hard before they dip their toes in baseball.

But it got me to thinking about former Arizona QB Keith Smith (1996-98) who took the more unusual route of playing baseball first before venturing into football. A star speedy SS at 5'10" 180 Smith was a high draft pick. But after a listless first minor league season where he batted a combined .237 with 15 SBs in 1994 Smith decided to go back to playing QB a position he starred at in high school as a star dual sport athlete.

His first season with the Wildcats was revelatory. Speeding through defenses as if they were standing still Smith was instantly one of the most explosive and exciting college football players that season. His running and passing ability drew rave reviews. His subsequent seasons were solid enough and there was some NFL talk but it never happened. But this was before small QBs (Kyler Murray anyone with Smith's 4.47 speed?) were seen as viable NFL options. I believe he played in the CFL?

See below an article that described all the excitement he generated. A baseball player ripping it up in football.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-11-15-sp-64876-story.html

 

[sport historian]

I have to admit I am completely lost in space here. I have no idea what you are talking about SH. In a recent side by side comparison current speedster Billy Hamilton ran out a triple faster than Deion Sanders. I brought up Sanders because he was considered the fastest NFL player for years. Sure that isn't an exact science but to suggest baseball players aren't even in the same ballpark as football regarding speed rings hollow to me.

The history of baseball is full of players with blinding speed so I can't even begin to digest what you are saying. And many of those speedsters were white.

Yes stolen bases don't always reflect pure speed but it is a useful indicator in general.

As for Willie Davis ( of the Dodgers) he played baseball. And he ran a 9.5 100 yard dash in high school which would have made him the fastest or closest to fastest football player of that period.

Many baseball players through the years were sprint champs in high school. Scott Podsednik was one. And he wasn't even considered the fastest player in his draft. That belonged to McKay Christensen who yes played high school football but ultimately chose baseball like a lot of two sport athletes end up doing.



I could write a book on the subject of baseball speedsters but when watching footage of Mickey Mantle run in his youth I wouldn't bet against him in any race against a football player. A speeding locomotive pretty much describes Mickey Mantle when he was running.

Perhaps you can convince some here and elsewhere on your argument but with me I am standing firm in my beliefs. Just the same I do enjoy your posts.

Yes, you're lost in space all right.

Speaking of Mickey Mantle, he tore up a knee in the 1951 World Series. He basically played on one leg the next 17 years.

 

[Booth]

When Charley Finley brought in Washington to steal bases everyone myself included thought it was another Finley gimmick. He proved me wrong by bringing in Maury Wills to instruct Washington how to steal bases. I believe he had limited success in his first year and was let go during his second year. He got more attention for getting picked off first base in the World Series than anything else I can remember.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

Trout 2-3 with a HR, Triple, 2R, 1 RBI, and a BB.

Quietly putting together another monster season. Leads the league in BB, OBP, OPS, OPS+, IBB, with 17 HR, 49 R.

Runs Scored
1. Betts • BOS 50
Bogaerts • BOS 50
3. Trout • LAA 49
4. Devers • BOS 47
5. Haniger • SEA 46

Home Runs
1. Sanchez • NYY 19
2. Bregman • HOU 18
Encarnacion • SEA 18
Rosario • MIN 18
5. Gallo • TEX 17
Trout • LAA 17
Springer • HOU 17
8. Chapman • OAK 16

 

[Shadowlight]

Yes, you're lost in space all right.

Speaking of Mickey Mantle, he tore up a knee in the 1951 World Series. He basically played on one leg the next 17 years.

One leg? All those spectacular centerfield sprints are a figment of everybody's imagination? Yes his knee issues are legendary but he was timed to first base in a scorching 3.1 seconds as late as 1959. Pretty swift for a "one legged" player.

I have been charting baseball speed since the mid 1990's and when I have time I might just go through every year and point out all the white baseball speedsters that you somehow don't want to acknowledge. And a there are quite a lot of white speedsters on my lists. Many of them never have made the big leagues. Some made it up for a cup of coffee. I want to put it out in public.

And in an attempt to draw you back into reality they time most of the position players. Generally this occurs before drafts. The most notable test is the 60 yard dash just like the NFL times players use the 40 yard dash. The next speed number they look at is home to first.

So there is real and tangible evidence based on these times that prove that elite speed isn't just the domain of football players.

Myles Straw of the Astros was timed at 6.25 over 60 yards just to name one example of many and I have a ton of others I could point out. White players. That is right. There are many white super speedsters who have played baseball. 6.25 speed in the 60 is fast. Real fast. Not sure any current football players can run that fast?

When I have time I will start to list all the fast white baseball players I have charted over the years and list their verifiable 60 yard dash times. You think Mike Trout wouldn't look fast in a football uniform?

This whole conversation is getting my dander up because there is a not so subtle undertow that white baseball players can't compare to the mainly black football players in terms of speed which flies into the face of all the evidence I have accumulated over the years.

You need to go back to school and learn some more history. I am going to unleash information regarding white baseball speed players that will be eye opening to people with open minds.

It boils down to this. They time players in the 60 yard dash. They have actual tangible proof of speed. So a player runs a scorching 60 yard dash. It is notated. The player is very fast. The buck stops there.

[ I find it a bit strange I have to defend white athletes here at CF with a member]

 

[sport historian]

One leg? All those spectacular centerfield sprints are a figment of everybody's imagination? Yes his knee issues are legendary but he was timed to first base in a scorching 3.1 seconds as late as 1959. Pretty swift for a "one legged" player.

I have been charting baseball speed since the mid 1990's and when I have time I might just go through every year and point out all the white baseball speedsters that you somehow don't want to acknowledge. And a there are quite a lot of white speedsters on my lists. Many of them never have made the big leagues. Some made it up for a cup of coffee. I want to put it out in public.

And in an attempt to draw you back into reality they time most of the position players. Generally this occurs before drafts. The most notable test is the 60 yard dash just like the NFL times players use the 40 yard dash. The next speed number they look at is home to first.

So there is real and tangible evidence based on these times that prove that elite speed isn't just the domain of football players.

Myles Straw of the Astros was timed at 6.25 over 60 yards just to name one example of many and I have a ton of others I could point out. White players. That is right. There are many white super speedsters who have played baseball. 6.25 speed in the 60 is fast. Real fast. Not sure any current football players can run that fast?

When I have time I will start to list all the fast white baseball players I have charted over the years and list their verifiable 60 yard dash times. You think Mike Trout wouldn't look fast in a football uniform?

This whole conversation is getting my dander up because there is a not so subtle undertow that white baseball players can't compare to the mainly black football players in terms of speed which flies into the face of all the evidence I have accumulated over the years.

You need to go back to school and learn some more history. I am going to unleash information regarding white baseball speed players that will be eye opening to people with open minds.

It boils down to this. They time players in the 60 yard dash. They have actual tangible proof of speed. So a player runs a scorching 60 yard dash. It is notated. The player is very fast. The buck stops there.

[ I find it a bit strange I have to defend white athletes here at CF with a member]

I saw Mantle play on TV many times. Did you? Have you ever read a biography of Mantle? Mantle was so fast that even after the 1951 knee injury he still had great speed.

Funny thing, Mickey Mantle was my favorite baseball player as a kid and now I'm attacked on this Forum for not liking him.

My original comment concerned Kirk Gibson's great speed and had nothing to do with Mickey Mantle.

 

[knightedsoldier5000]

Trout goes 0-2 with 2 BB and 1 R scored - now tied for the AL lead in Runs Scored !!! Hooray!!

 

[Flint]

There is a White Renaissance in the game going on. I just checked the leader boards and about 15 of the 20 players with the top batting averages and HR leaders are white. That seems like something that hasn't been the case since the 1950's.

Why are the pale faces taking over despite the rush to add as many Hispanics and blacks to the game as possible?

These guys are young too. So this should not be a temporary thing.