Extra Point
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The Vikings' decision to stop targeting Thielen the second half of the season may have cost them a playoff spot.
2018 NFL Week 17
- Thread starter The Sapient
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Shadowlight
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So much to say and so little time and I might be splitting up posts because I expect to be interrupted. Won't be back on the grid until sometime Thursday at the earliest.
Some random thoughts.
First if you have insomnia I have just the remedy. Watch a Titans football game. Good God they are beyond boring. Horrible franchise.
By the way I enjoyed all the posts above and yes we are all licking our wounds from that dreadful Vikings loss. I have a slightly different take. I wasn't some big Kirk Cousins fan before the season but he won me over with the way he connected with Adam especially early in the season. And while it is true Cousins has not come up big in big games I can't put the blame squarely on him. In every Vikings game I watched he was under tons of pressure. And they had no running game for most of the season. That OL played terrible all year long.
I would not fire their coach Zimmer but he did get on my nerves this year. But the clincher was the DE Everson Griffen incident which was discussed here at CF. Simple. If a player has a depression problem I suppose (aren't we all depressed?) some time out for treatment is OK. But that isn't what happened here. This guy went full psycho threatening to kill people. At that second he should have been kicked off the team for good. So now what? If this crazy person goes off his meds he might just shoot up the whole team? Terrible decision by the Vikings and don't think his teammates haven't been on pins and needles since Griffen returned.
The Vikings defense didn't play ferocious football either. Harrison Smith is their best defender and I thought LB Ben Gideon played solid down the stretch but they have a lot of issues. Cousins in my mind is a franchise QB so there is no need for them to address that spot. Too bad the media will put the blame on him and nobody else. His sideline thing with Thielen was just a family thing. No need to for us to be worried. They have a strong bond.
Coupled with that Vikings loss is this hyper annoying Lamar Jackson media lovefest. What the hell were the Browns doing down the stretch? They saw a full scale blitz four straight times and they couldn't adjust with a searing draw play or something? Knocked the Steelers out dammit to hell.
Go back to the 2017 draft. I wrote about week or two before the draft CM was climbing way up the draft boards and might reach number one. Looking back he probably should have been the first pick. If not him then TE George Kittle who already just two years in is at a Travis Kelce level. Big play Kittle should be his name. And TJ Watt who played his heart out yesterday could have been a top 5 pick in retrospect.
Hopefully part two coming. Being interrupted.
Some random thoughts.
First if you have insomnia I have just the remedy. Watch a Titans football game. Good God they are beyond boring. Horrible franchise.
By the way I enjoyed all the posts above and yes we are all licking our wounds from that dreadful Vikings loss. I have a slightly different take. I wasn't some big Kirk Cousins fan before the season but he won me over with the way he connected with Adam especially early in the season. And while it is true Cousins has not come up big in big games I can't put the blame squarely on him. In every Vikings game I watched he was under tons of pressure. And they had no running game for most of the season. That OL played terrible all year long.
I would not fire their coach Zimmer but he did get on my nerves this year. But the clincher was the DE Everson Griffen incident which was discussed here at CF. Simple. If a player has a depression problem I suppose (aren't we all depressed?) some time out for treatment is OK. But that isn't what happened here. This guy went full psycho threatening to kill people. At that second he should have been kicked off the team for good. So now what? If this crazy person goes off his meds he might just shoot up the whole team? Terrible decision by the Vikings and don't think his teammates haven't been on pins and needles since Griffen returned.
The Vikings defense didn't play ferocious football either. Harrison Smith is their best defender and I thought LB Ben Gideon played solid down the stretch but they have a lot of issues. Cousins in my mind is a franchise QB so there is no need for them to address that spot. Too bad the media will put the blame on him and nobody else. His sideline thing with Thielen was just a family thing. No need to for us to be worried. They have a strong bond.
Coupled with that Vikings loss is this hyper annoying Lamar Jackson media lovefest. What the hell were the Browns doing down the stretch? They saw a full scale blitz four straight times and they couldn't adjust with a searing draw play or something? Knocked the Steelers out dammit to hell.
Go back to the 2017 draft. I wrote about week or two before the draft CM was climbing way up the draft boards and might reach number one. Looking back he probably should have been the first pick. If not him then TE George Kittle who already just two years in is at a Travis Kelce level. Big play Kittle should be his name. And TJ Watt who played his heart out yesterday could have been a top 5 pick in retrospect.
Hopefully part two coming. Being interrupted.
Shadowlight
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I was in a very bad mood last night. But I take some solace in a few things that happened Sunday.
That Cole Beasley catch was the catch of the year. You cannot get anymore clutch than that. And nice to see Cole bounce back after an off season with a 65-672-3 stat line his second best season as a pro. It looked like for while there he would be out of work. Nice overall game for him and the Cowboys.
And heartwarming to see Packers edge player Kyler Fackrell pick up 10.5 sacks a year. Remember he didn't start every game. He is now the Packers best defender and I suspect Clay Matthews will be moving on so Kyler should be seen as the leader of the Pack--no pun intended. The similarities to late blooming Bryce Paup are eerie. Of course the idiot Packers traded Bryce and he went on to have arguably the greatest season ever by an edge player with the Bills.
Next up part three.
That Cole Beasley catch was the catch of the year. You cannot get anymore clutch than that. And nice to see Cole bounce back after an off season with a 65-672-3 stat line his second best season as a pro. It looked like for while there he would be out of work. Nice overall game for him and the Cowboys.
And heartwarming to see Packers edge player Kyler Fackrell pick up 10.5 sacks a year. Remember he didn't start every game. He is now the Packers best defender and I suspect Clay Matthews will be moving on so Kyler should be seen as the leader of the Pack--no pun intended. The similarities to late blooming Bryce Paup are eerie. Of course the idiot Packers traded Bryce and he went on to have arguably the greatest season ever by an edge player with the Bills.
Next up part three.
Shadowlight
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Sorry for splitting up my posts but I knew I would have issues today. In closing just want to name check four rookies I like a lot. It is not a list necessarily of the best rookies perhaps but just players that I have latched onto.
Before that a quick word about two 2 year players who saw their roles increase a bit this season. Taysom Hill brought back the old Paul Hornung do everything player and it will be fascinating to see how the Saints utilize him in the playoffs.
And on the surface Ryan Switzer was a middle of the road punt and kick returner. This year he did catch some passes and even lined up as a RB from time to time. But the real secret to returning kicks is to be smart and don't do anything stupid. Just last night hyped Titans' CB Adoree Jackson muffed a punt and basically cost his team the game. Switzer not only was flawless on that score but he never put his team in a bad position on punt returns always making the correct decision and or making a tough over the head catch to prevent his team from being pinned in deep. Nothing flashy but it is these little details that add up to winning football. I still want to see Switzer play in space on offense.
TE Mark Andrews of Baltimore ( not to mention Hayden Hurst another terrific talent) is a dangerous deep threat and will be integral to the Ravens success going forward. When the Ravens chose QB Lamar and the two TEs in the draft I said right here they were planning to move out Joe Flacco. They use the TEs to bail out and cover up Lamar's weaknesses as a passing QB.
DE Sam Hubbard of the Bengals was thought of as a stiff by many experts but he was solid in his debut finishing with 6 sacks in mostly limited play although he was starting lately due to injuries. Looks like a solid 10 year plus player and it is neat he is playing in his hometown. Had several big flash plays too. The Bengals did the right thing by just firing their long time HC. You have to close the deal and Marvin Lewis failed in that area.
Dallas got the steal of the draft with LB Leighton Vander Esch. He is the closest thing I have seen to Brian Urlacher and that is saying something. I think LB Sean Lee is healthy again and S Jeff Heath has been spectacular this season. Yes having three great white defenders is enough to catapult the Cowboys to the top of the line in the NFC for me now that the Vikings are out. And they have WR Cole Beasley too!! I am allergic to teams that have no white presence on defense. Sadly I think their QB will let them down in the playoffs. Hope I am wrong. Dreaded Seattle is up next.
There were some grave disappointments this year none greater than S Troy Apke and WR Trey Quinn being shelved due to injuries. The Apke situation had me bummed out beyond belief.
Also was very upset the way the Patriots treated WR/PR Riley McCarron. Poor fellow makes one error that didn't affect the outcome of the game and he is shown the door before you can say a word. Also upset that this year's WR group never were able to emerge mainly due to injuries. Hopefully they reemerge next season and beyond and become steady NFL players.
Also bewildered that Miami couldn't find a way to get ultra athlete Mike Gesicki the ball. Many other teams are featuring white TEs. It is becoming the "thing to do." What is their problem?
Finally the emerging Fairy Tale that has the makings of a Hollywood movie with Gary Cooper in the starring role. The polite quiet easy going soft spoken young man who everyone likes but have there doubts about when it comes to handling high society when all of a sudden he hits it big. That would be Bills QB Josh Allen to a tee. If Baker Mayfield is the brash young star like Bryce Harper in baseball then Josh would play the role of Mike Trout. Great talents, different personalities.
But Josh is in the perfect spot for him despite the fact the Bills probably have less talent on their roster than any other team in the NFL. Allen showed off all of his tremendous gifts yesterday and the hope is they give this man teammates who are worthy. And then perhaps the Bills will be a player again in the NFL. Then their die hard fans who have to suffer through horrific winters will be lustily cheering on their new folk hero Josh Allen as he leads the charges through the gates.
His pass completion to long time Buffalo favorite retiring DT Kyle Williams was like a symbolic passing of the baton.
Before that a quick word about two 2 year players who saw their roles increase a bit this season. Taysom Hill brought back the old Paul Hornung do everything player and it will be fascinating to see how the Saints utilize him in the playoffs.
And on the surface Ryan Switzer was a middle of the road punt and kick returner. This year he did catch some passes and even lined up as a RB from time to time. But the real secret to returning kicks is to be smart and don't do anything stupid. Just last night hyped Titans' CB Adoree Jackson muffed a punt and basically cost his team the game. Switzer not only was flawless on that score but he never put his team in a bad position on punt returns always making the correct decision and or making a tough over the head catch to prevent his team from being pinned in deep. Nothing flashy but it is these little details that add up to winning football. I still want to see Switzer play in space on offense.
TE Mark Andrews of Baltimore ( not to mention Hayden Hurst another terrific talent) is a dangerous deep threat and will be integral to the Ravens success going forward. When the Ravens chose QB Lamar and the two TEs in the draft I said right here they were planning to move out Joe Flacco. They use the TEs to bail out and cover up Lamar's weaknesses as a passing QB.
DE Sam Hubbard of the Bengals was thought of as a stiff by many experts but he was solid in his debut finishing with 6 sacks in mostly limited play although he was starting lately due to injuries. Looks like a solid 10 year plus player and it is neat he is playing in his hometown. Had several big flash plays too. The Bengals did the right thing by just firing their long time HC. You have to close the deal and Marvin Lewis failed in that area.
Dallas got the steal of the draft with LB Leighton Vander Esch. He is the closest thing I have seen to Brian Urlacher and that is saying something. I think LB Sean Lee is healthy again and S Jeff Heath has been spectacular this season. Yes having three great white defenders is enough to catapult the Cowboys to the top of the line in the NFC for me now that the Vikings are out. And they have WR Cole Beasley too!! I am allergic to teams that have no white presence on defense. Sadly I think their QB will let them down in the playoffs. Hope I am wrong. Dreaded Seattle is up next.
There were some grave disappointments this year none greater than S Troy Apke and WR Trey Quinn being shelved due to injuries. The Apke situation had me bummed out beyond belief.
Also was very upset the way the Patriots treated WR/PR Riley McCarron. Poor fellow makes one error that didn't affect the outcome of the game and he is shown the door before you can say a word. Also upset that this year's WR group never were able to emerge mainly due to injuries. Hopefully they reemerge next season and beyond and become steady NFL players.
Also bewildered that Miami couldn't find a way to get ultra athlete Mike Gesicki the ball. Many other teams are featuring white TEs. It is becoming the "thing to do." What is their problem?
Finally the emerging Fairy Tale that has the makings of a Hollywood movie with Gary Cooper in the starring role. The polite quiet easy going soft spoken young man who everyone likes but have there doubts about when it comes to handling high society when all of a sudden he hits it big. That would be Bills QB Josh Allen to a tee. If Baker Mayfield is the brash young star like Bryce Harper in baseball then Josh would play the role of Mike Trout. Great talents, different personalities.
But Josh is in the perfect spot for him despite the fact the Bills probably have less talent on their roster than any other team in the NFL. Allen showed off all of his tremendous gifts yesterday and the hope is they give this man teammates who are worthy. And then perhaps the Bills will be a player again in the NFL. Then their die hard fans who have to suffer through horrific winters will be lustily cheering on their new folk hero Josh Allen as he leads the charges through the gates.
His pass completion to long time Buffalo favorite retiring DT Kyle Williams was like a symbolic passing of the baton.
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Rotoworld has assessed that Zenner is not good enough to be a starter despite being the best RB on the Lions with a 4.8 YPC average. Has Blount ever been described as not good enough to be a starter? Zenner is just 27, the article states his age as going on 28 - true but just typical wordsmithing to make him appear too old already - why not just round his age up to 30? The rotowriter also writes that Green Bay was depleted on defense missing the sure fire future hall of famers Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark. What a joke. It's just so hard for them to compliment Zenner in anyway.
Rotoworld:
Zach Zenner rushed 21 times for 93 yards and a touchdown in the Lions' Week 17 win over the Packers, adding a 30-yard reception.
It was a strong day, albeit against a packed-in defense missing both Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark. Featured over LeGarrette Blount down the stretch, Zenner ended up rushing for over 45 yards in each of his final four games. posing a 4.81 YPC on the year. Going on 28, Zenner is not good enough to be a feature back but will undoubtedly remain in the 2019 Lions' 53-man roster mix.
Rotoworld:
Zach Zenner rushed 21 times for 93 yards and a touchdown in the Lions' Week 17 win over the Packers, adding a 30-yard reception.
It was a strong day, albeit against a packed-in defense missing both Mike Daniels and Kenny Clark. Featured over LeGarrette Blount down the stretch, Zenner ended up rushing for over 45 yards in each of his final four games. posing a 4.81 YPC on the year. Going on 28, Zenner is not good enough to be a feature back but will undoubtedly remain in the 2019 Lions' 53-man roster mix.
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WHO is this spineless goof ball writer for Rotoworld? Bet he never did more than star for his JV HS Golf team. If only Zach could just replace his name w Ezekiel Zenner or Davonte Zenner...Then you know what the True story would be...Quality All-purpose Running Back w nice upside that just needs opportunities. He is in his Prime! But Nope... little Fullback Zach huffed & puffed his way blah blah
2,000 YARDS....3 STRAIGHT SEASONS ...On ANY LEVEL(including FCS) that is IMPRESSIVE!Yet still..UNDRAFTED!
+ 99 Yard TD Run vs. FBS Kansas
40 yard TD Run vs. Nebraska...202 yards rushing total
75 yard Run vs. SEC Missouri
Yet some little weasels masquerading as so-called Draft Experts had him as a 220lb Fullback in the Draft
START TIMING 40 Yard Dashes in PADS at the Indy Combine...Zenner is as fast as Mark Ingram & TJ Yeldon..yet they are never spoken of in this way!
Just like 4.52 Jordy Nelson in his prime out running 4.34 DB Dee Milliner / NY Jets for 80 yard TD...in PADS!!
2,000 YARDS....3 STRAIGHT SEASONS ...On ANY LEVEL(including FCS) that is IMPRESSIVE!Yet still..UNDRAFTED!
+ 99 Yard TD Run vs. FBS Kansas
40 yard TD Run vs. Nebraska...202 yards rushing total
75 yard Run vs. SEC Missouri
Yet some little weasels masquerading as so-called Draft Experts had him as a 220lb Fullback in the Draft
START TIMING 40 Yard Dashes in PADS at the Indy Combine...Zenner is as fast as Mark Ingram & TJ Yeldon..yet they are never spoken of in this way!
Just like 4.52 Jordy Nelson in his prime out running 4.34 DB Dee Milliner / NY Jets for 80 yard TD...in PADS!!
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Just found out that Nick Vigil had 17 tackles against the Steelers on Sunday, 12 of them solo! He started off the season great too, but a knee injury Week 6 short-circuited what would have been an All-Pro season statistically otherwise. And he's yet another White linebacker who was more or less written off before the season as backup material.
Carolina Speed
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Zenner is faster and quicker than both Ingram and Yeldon!.....and more explosive, etc...
Zenner,
40 time 4.60
Vert: 41
3 cone drill 7.08
20 yard shuttle: 4.14
Ingram,
40 time 4.66
Vert:31.5
3 cone drill: 7.13
20 yard shuttle 4.62!!! WTC!
Yeldon,
40 time: 4.61
Vert: 36
3 cone drill: 7.19
20 yard shuttle: 4.22
Someone needs to send these NFL combine numbers to the idiot writer, NFL commisoner, or whoever will listen! Ryan Nall and Zach Zenner not starting RB's in the NFL is plain out racism, discrimination, etc.
The fact that these two athletes aren't starting makes me sick!
It's like I keep saying, the white starters in the NFL, McCaffrey, Kuechly, H. Smith, JJ Watt, Kelce, Kittle, etc. have to be the best athletes on the planet because they have to be the best at their position to be given the honor of playing in the NFL!! You can only be a white RB in the NFL if you run 4.45 40 as did CM, etc. Yet you can run a 4.9, Emmitt Smith and black and play for years!
Can someone please start a thread for combine number comparison between white players and black players? Something we can quickly reference. I would like a file or something that records these numbers.
Thanks
CS
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CS, why not start it yourself beginning with your post above? We can add some classic articles to it, like this one by Jimmy Chitwood:
Heisman Candidate or Blocking Fullback? The Difference is Apparently Only Skin Deep
http://www.castefootball.us/index.p...ifference-is-apparently-only-skin-deep.15156/
And this classic by J. B. Cash:
The Racial Caste System in Sports
http://www.castefootball.us/index.php?threads/the-racial-caste-system-in-sports.8644/
And build it from there, and it'll be pinned at the top of the NFL Forum.
Carolina Speed
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Ok Don. I'll try. I guess I'm trying to think of creative thread, something that ties it all together. I'm not very creative, but I'll give it a shot.
I don't mean to put you on the spot, my apologies. Give me several days as I have a lot of important work to do in the first week or so of January, but then I'll start the thread by writing an introduction and putting links to the two articles I mentioned above, and others I find or that others recommend. And then we can start putting in 2018 Combine and Pro Day comparisons, and older ones if we want (or put the older ones in a thread specifically for past comparisons and examples of racial discrimination). Like any good thread it will take shape as it goes.
If anyone remembers or can find some good threads or posts from the past, pm them to me. We have hundreds, probably even thousands of posts on this general subject, but they're scattered across the forums going back to 2004. Which is why a thread like Carolina Speed is talking about is a good idea.
If anyone remembers or can find some good threads or posts from the past, pm them to me. We have hundreds, probably even thousands of posts on this general subject, but they're scattered across the forums going back to 2004. Which is why a thread like Carolina Speed is talking about is a good idea.
Carolina Speed
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So, I was working it as we speak, but I can stop it. I would like someone more qualified to start it and then we add the information we have and add to it as we go along. So, I will not post what I've started, right, it's ok with me?
If you want to wait a week or so for me to get it started, let's do that. If you want to start it now that's fine too. Either way works. It's the factual information it contains that's the most important thing.
Carolina Speed
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Let's wait. I want this done correctly! I would like to add that these combine numbers/comparisons should reach down to high school level, because it starts even before high school. I had my son doing combines in the seventh grade. I think many white kids get discouraged from certain positions as early as their early teens, although their numbers were as good or better than their black counterparts, thus keeping them from competing for RB, WR, or even the CB positions. Fortunately, my son was one of those who generally won his combine, but there were other white kids every bit as good as black players who finished on a lower tier.
Hopefully, we kind find some if not most of the information that's been posted on CF since 2004. I hope we can get other guys to research and add to this important thread!
Deadlift
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Over half of the league is awful. It's win or go home now. Your suggestion that PHI/CHI is an even matchup on paper is correct, with slight edge going to the home team. If CHI wins, they go to Rams. Rams - who do have some serious flaws - should still pull out the W. They should have more strength and endurance and hunger if this matchup happens.
If PHI wins, they go to New Orleans to face a team that usually has a quality gameplan to break-down their opponent. I think NO wants PHILLY.