2013 NFL Season Week 10

GiovaniMarcon

Mentor
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
1,231
Location
Westwood, California
John Gruden looks like one of those lesbian chicks from West Hollywood or Chelsea or some other gay city who ventures outside of her native land, where she looks like she's really going for the "I'm a guy, HONEST!" aura, but in the back of people's minds they're thinking, "dude you can totally tell this *** is a dumpy chick because of her pudgy body and sloppy ape tits and Renaissance fair gay nerd hair."

On a side note, at least Leonard gets to run the ball and people see it. Even if the Black loser was the one who got to eat the icing on the cake, everyone can see it was Leonard who moved the chains.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,290
Location
Pennsylvania
Gruden is a piece of sh*# and has been for years.I've hated that ahole ever since he killed Alstott's career by giving the ball to Pittman and "Caddy" instead of the best RB on the team,although i will admit that "Caddy" could have been a good RB if he hadn't destroyed both knees but Pittman was crap.

Gruden is a shameless flatterer and a Caste whore. He compliments White players, but slobbers to a ridiculous degree over blacks. Tirico is a pompous nerd who never deviates from Caste terminology and stereotyping.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
I think its ref bias, you can't deny that they are more strict about calling holding whenver a White back is in. I saw multiple instances of holding when Rainey was in, pretty sure the guy on the edge was held on the td run otherwise he would have never made it to the perimeter and scored.

or sumos try less to not get caught holding, or a combo of both

As I've said before, it's worse then an intentional conspiracy against White running backs, if that was the case then there would be a possibility of it being uncovered, some people would rebel against the unfairness, or they could just change their mind. Instead it's a subconscious bias so it needs no reinforcement, cannot be uncovered, and is difficult to change. White ref sees a White guy get a good gain, and at some level see's a "hold" that he has seen all game and finally decides to call it.
 

jaxvid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Messages
7,247
Location
Michigan
Gruden is a shameless flatterer and a Caste whore. He compliments White players, but slobbers to a ridiculous degree over blacks. Tirico is a pompous nerd who never deviates from Caste terminology and stereotyping.

Exactly!! You can hear the excitement in their voices when Rainey makes a gain. When Leonhard does it they are blah about it and go on about the blocking or how the QB made a good call, like the QB ever makes a call anymore.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,290
Location
Pennsylvania
As I've said before, it's worse then an intentional conspiracy against White running backs, if that was the case then there would be a possibility of it being uncovered, some people would rebel against the unfairness, or they could just change their mind. Instead it's a subconscious bias so it needs no reinforcement, cannot be uncovered, and is difficult to change. White ref sees a White guy get a good gain, and at some level see's a "hold" that he has seen all game and finally decides to call it.

Or it could be that we notice the calls a lot more because we're so tuned in to the rare Whites who get a chance at running the ball and want so badly for them to succeed. I've never noticed White college RBs getting significantly more holding calls on their runs than black ones. It didn't happen to Hillis when he was starting, and I don't notice it when Woodhead is getting rushes.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,290
Location
Pennsylvania
Hopefully the Dolphins will clean house and get Belichick disciples as their next coach and GM. I don't think Tannehill will get dumped; his talent is clear, he just has no chance with that atrocious o-line.
 

dwid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
4,254
Location
Louisiana
Or it could be that we notice the calls a lot more because we're so tuned in to the rare Whites who get a chance at running the ball and want so badly for them to succeed. I've never noticed White college RBs getting significantly more holding calls on their runs than black ones. It didn't happen to Hillis when he was starting, and I don't notice it when Woodhead is getting rushes.
Hillis was getting hit in the backfield at times so I dunno how much actual holding was going on if they can't stop that from happening.

I recall Woodhead having some plays called back. Pats vs Cards comes to mind, big play for a td, phantom holding called on Gronk.

it could be that we notice them more, similar to how it seems like Whites get injured more but considering the ratio of Whites vs blacks and the injuries, its actually less, but I dunno, I'll have to look more into it which would involve looking through the forums of everytime someone is complainin of holding
 

Westside

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
7,703
Location
So Cal
Its really too bad that Leonard did not get to break that long run that Rainy got to seal the game. Giovanni gotta disagree with you. The people here at CF will side with you. But the hordes of DWFs and corrupt media will only credit the affelete with the long run and TD. And the caste system beats on to my discontent.
 

newguy

Guru
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
129
I know Leonard is just running out the clock on the last two plays, but couldn't he just pick up a few yards instead of completing destroying his stat line to go under 3yards per carry?
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,290
Location
Pennsylvania
Hillis was getting hit in the backfield at times so I dunno how much actual holding was going on if they can't stop that from happening.

I recall Woodhead having some plays called back. Pats vs Cards comes to mind, big play for a td, phantom holding called on Gronk.

I'm not saying holding has never been called on big plays by Whites, it's my opinion that it doesn't happen appreciably more often to them than blacks and I don't see how it advances our viewpoint to claim that it does as it comes across as bitter complaining or "out there" bigunrealitismongering. (Is that a word?)
 

MetalHed

Guru
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
397
Location
South Carolina
John Gruden looks like one of those lesbian chicks from West Hollywood or Chelsea or some other gay city who ventures outside of her native land, where she looks like she's really going for the "I'm a guy, HONEST!" aura, but in the back of people's minds they're thinking, "dude you can totally tell this *** is a dumpy chick because of her pudgy body and sloppy ape tits and Renaissance fair gay nerd hair."

I call it the "English archer" hairdo!
 

dwid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
4,254
Location
Louisiana
I'm not saying holding has never been called on big plays by Whites, it's my opinion that it doesn't happen appreciably more often to them than blacks and I don't see how it advances our viewpoint to claim that it does as it comes across as bitter complaining or "out there" bigunrealitismongering. (Is that a word?)

its not bigunrealitis where i think they sit in a room and plan this stuff out it just shows that refs don't think Whites can legitimately make big runs without holding or some type of edge. Just like they use their craftiness and sneaky speed to get open as wide receivers, how else do you explain a big play by a runningback besides athleticism? its probably why it has been so hard for Whites to gain ground at the position. Theres only so much credit you can give to the line, once that back gets the second level its all on him.

Wegher comes to mind, his biggest run, he had broken out some 20 yarders, but as soon as he hit that hole and was open field flag was thrown. Like I said, Ill have to pay attention to it more rewatching the games and compare it to black backs. I do no that there was holding for Rainey so he could get to the edge, and then they threw the defenders off of them and they knocked into each other and tripped over themselves and one fell down, brilliant strategy though.

and for Woodhead to have that 30 yard td run come back was bad, it cost them the game and a big play, he hasn't had many long rushes and receptions, his game has been more about quickness, playing in 4 receiver sets there are more defenders to make miss, instead of the typical get to the second level make one or two dbs miss, that was one of his few opportunities.

I think this is the first play where someone mentioned refs throwing flags for Whites when they get a big run and it was first brought to my attention, yeah there was holding but it didn't affect the run

[video=youtube;XB5nG_HpYCk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XB5nG_HpYCk#t=25[/video]

26 seconds in, the ref waited until he saw that Wegher made a nice cut and had open field in front of him, now I didn't know Wegher had the speed to take it the distance but he did.
 
Last edited:

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,290
Location
Pennsylvania
I would think that blacks trying harder for their own (or not as hard for Whites) would be a factor moreso than referees deciding that a White man couldn't possibly make a nice run without holding and then throwing a flag even if he didn't see any holding. When I see a White guy running behind a sumo line I figure he doesn't have a chance, but that's also because Whites are better all-around linemen.
 

Truthteller

Mentor
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
1,205
I think all things considered, Brian Leonard had a good night running behind a crappy, Summo O-Line. If he ran behind a Patriots, Packers or Eagles type line, maybe it would've been a different story?

His final stats were 20 carries, 57 yards. Wasn't great, but with a little luck, he could've had a great night. He had runs of 10 & 6 yards wiped out by very questionable holding calls. The 6 yard call was an absolute farce...He also had a 2 yard run negated by a hold.....In addition, he was asked to run around and take a loss of 5 yards at the end of the game in order to run out the clock and secure the win. He did that on the next play, too, and gained only 1.

So, he had 3 carries for 18 yards washed away by holding....and had 2 carries for -4 yards to run out the clock. So, with out the holds and the planned negative runs at the end, he would've had 79 yards on 21 carries. That would've been a nice night.

Also, I wonder how weenie world will describe the Dolphin running game. A trio of affletic backs had 0 yards on 13 carries for Miami. That's not a typo, they were bad beyond belief. I'm sure our Kosher friends over at weenieworld will blast Leonard for being too slow, while excusing the Dolphins backs ineptness due to a poor line.

Also, based on what I saw of Rainey tonight, I doubt he can carry the ball that much. He's listed at 5'8", but is probably closer to 5'6" and isn't all that bulked up. Looks like a 10-12 carry a game back. Big question, if James is out, will they sign someone off the street to screw Brian over? I hope not!
 
L

Lew

Guest
I know Leonard is just running out the clock on the last two plays, but couldn't he just pick up a few yards instead of completing destroying his stat line to go under 3yards per carry?
Unfortunately for Leonard he's a white guy, so by nature he feels he needs to put the team ahead of his individual achievements.
 

dwid

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
4,254
Location
Louisiana
well you want your linemen to hold a little bit on some plays, just be slick about it, I think its a ref problem because it is subjective, an article put it in better perspective than me, although I disagree about it being the ONLY call that is subjective, just the one that comes up the most:

"Holding, unlike every other call in football, is purely subjective. Sure, there's a textbook definition:
"Article 3: Illegal Block by Offensive Player. It is a foul if an offensive blocker:
(c) Uses his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. Material restrictions include but are not limited to: I. grabbing or tackling an opponent; II. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or III. pulling him to the ground.
Penalty: For holding by the offense: Loss of 10 yards."
...but the whole point of blocking is to "materially restrict an opponent," or "alter the defender's path or angle of pursuit."
Then, the rule spells out an incomplete list of specific acts that are definitely holding. But what else is holding? That's a gray area."

So far this season Scott Green has worked seven games and called holding 15 times for 127 yards. Ron Winter has also worked seven games. He's called holding 36 times for 335 yards.
Clearly, holding is in the eye of the beholder.





but reading comments, its affected black players as well, and games so like I said i will have to take a closer look at it. You have to remember refs are human, they are going to make mistakes, but they also probably have personal bias, and as much as they try not to let it affect the game, i am sure it does at some level. There was ref recently fired because of all the pictures of him in Saints gear on facebook, he was just stupid enough to have that on facebook. You can tell by some of the comments on soundfx that some of these refs are no different than dwfs so I dont know what to say.

This is the Woodhead one:
[video=youtube;VKqd_8pAbKw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKqd_8pAbKw[/video] boy does he cover 30 yards quick (well closer to 35), I think he did it in 4 seconds with pads on while pausing waiting for blocking twice and changing direction not going in a straight line ending up closer to the other side, I think thats pretty close to his 40 time, in pads, 35 yards in a straight line would be about 3.8 seconds for a 4.34 40.

just like other rules, its not benefiting Whites. The whole defenseless receiver hasnt really protected our guys, Ive seen White guys still get laid out with no call then a call against a White d player if his helmet even comes close to a black players helmet.
 
Last edited:

white is right

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
10,150
I think all things considered, Brian Leonard had a good night running behind a crappy, Summo O-Line. If he ran behind a Patriots, Packers or Eagles type line, maybe it would've been a different story?

His final stats were 20 carries, 57 yards. Wasn't great, but with a little luck, he could've had a great night. He had runs of 10 & 6 yards wiped out by very questionable holding calls. The 6 yard call was an absolute farce...He also had a 2 yard run negated by a hold.....In addition, he was asked to run around and take a loss of 5 yards at the end of the game in order to run out the clock and secure the win. He did that on the next play, too, and gained only 1.

So, he had 3 carries for 18 yards washed away by holding....and had 2 carries for -4 yards to run out the clock. So, with out the holds and the planned negative runs at the end, he would've had 79 yards on 21 carries. That would've been a nice night.

Also, I wonder how weenie world will describe the Dolphin running game. A trio of affletic backs had 0 yards on 13 carries for Miami. That's not a typo, they were bad beyond belief. I'm sure our Kosher friends over at weenieworld will blast Leonard for being too slow, while excusing the Dolphins backs ineptness due to a poor line.

Also, based on what I saw of Rainey tonight, I doubt he can carry the ball that much. He's listed at 5'8", but is probably closer to 5'6" and isn't all that bulked up. Looks like a 10-12 carry a game back. Big question, if James is out, will they sign someone off the street to screw Brian over? I hope not!
Look at the list of street free agents there are no glaring names out there beyond maybe Beenie Wells and he has been injury prone. Also a big back like him if he's not being trained at a speed and conditioning camp just won't be in shape if he wasn't in a camp earlier in the year.
 
Top