how teams do not detect white talent: FORLAN

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by frederic38, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    diego forlan is a blond uruguayan foward, of french, italian and basque descent

    he is mainly known for having been elected "best player" of the 2010 world cup, and for having been the top scorer during this competition

    for a lot of soccer fans, this has been a surprise, but forlan has been an excellent player for a long time now

    let's have a look at his carrer:


    first, he tried to become professional in a french club , maybe because of his french roots: this club was "as nancy lorraine"
    but, surprisingly, this bad french club refused this young player
    http://www.footmercato.net/ligue1/transferts/quand-nancy-a-refuse-diego-forlan_50937
    at that time, nancy was in second division (!)

    so he returned in uruguay
    he made his first professional matches with argentinian team "Independiente", and caught the eye of sir alex ferguson because of his scoring abilities

    so he came in england for 6 millions pounds
    but manchester decided to sell him, despite the superbs goals he scored
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLrALYBDrBc
    officially, he left because he was not good enough
    but there may be another reason
    forlan said in an interview after his 2010 world cup, that he did not score a lot of goals for manchester, because he did not play
    "it is difficult to score when you don't play"
    he said he only played 5 minutes at the end of every match
    meanwhile, he scored the most beautifull goal of the 2002 world cup
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NSK10_svI

    he got sold to villareal, for a ridiculously low price
    for his first season with villareal, he became the season's top-scorer, won the european golden boot award, and qualified villareal for their first ever champions league
    the next season, he created a big surprise, allowing villareal to attain the semi-finals of the champions league, losing narrowly against arsenal
    for his third season, he scored 19 goals

    after all these accomplishments, real madrid or italian club didn't buy him
    he was bought by atletico madrid....
    for his first season, he scored 23 goals, and allowed atletico madrid to qualify for champions league, for the first time in the decade
    for his second season, he became the season's top scorer, and won the golden boot award for the second time (no player ever won this trophy three times)
    for his third season, he won the europa league, plating a major role (he scored almost all the goals of his team since the semi finals)

    but again, after all these accomplishments, he stayed at atletico madrid, no club wanted him

    then came the 2010 world cup, where everybody discovered him

    but even after that world cup, forlan said it in an interview, he got no offer!

    this is the incredible story of one of the most overlooked players of all time
     
  2. American Freedom News
  3. Liverlips

    Liverlips Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,197
    A very sad story. Is he still with Atletico Madrid at least?

    I was so happy when Uruguay beat the last African team (maybe it was Ivory Coast?) in the World Cup last year.
     
  4. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    there are rumors that he could play for a turkish club, or an english club, maybe tottenham

    this guy should play for real madrid or inter milan, it's a shame
     
  5. Matra1

    Matra1 Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    527
    Location:
    Outside North America
    he won the europa league, plating a major role (he scored almost all the goals of his team since the semi finals)

    Forlan may be the best free kick taker in the world. Also he can score long distance goals from both feet.

    The day after he helped put out Liverpool I remember discussing this with some Liverpool supporters at a pub in Hungary. They pointed out that Forlan did not do well at Man United - but that was some time ago. We guessed that maybe the English game is too fast. That's not a put down of Forlan. I've noticed the English game has so much emphasis on speed that you don't see all that much skill. The teams are just too hurried with an incredible number of goals being lucky, scrappy or from crosses so often skillful players get dragged down in the EPL. Perhaps Forlan was used properly at United. I'd like to see him paired with Ronaldo at Real Madrid or even go to Serie A.
     
  6. Matra1

    Matra1 Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    527
    Location:
    Outside North America
    there are rumors that he could play for a turkish club

    That would be a tragedy.
     
  7. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    he wasn't titular this year in atletico madrid, so the most important is change
    and perhaps the turkish club will play champions league
    but i agree, he should play in italy or real madrid
     
  8. Matra2

    Matra2 Master

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,249
  9. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    forlan needs to come back to south america, brazil (sao paulo) there he would get the respect he deserves
    because he is never interviewed in europe, every year he says nothing and ends in a bad club

    the article is basically a translation of forlan's post match interview
    http://rutube.ru/tracks/4664403.html?v=e474a00ae7f9369198ba766025c7f66a
    (at the end of the video)

    i want to see him win the libertadores
    forlan has played just 2 champions leagues with villareal and atletico
    what a shame!
    and he was semifinalist with villareal, but lost with atletico against fc porto

    atletico did 2-2 in their first match against fc porto, and forlan scored
    so they had to score in the second match....but the coach decided to put forlan on the bench..........atletico didn't score.....he really is one of the most underrated players
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  10. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    [video=youtube;yGFGNxYn4hE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGFGNxYn4hE&feature=related[/video]

    forlan to inter milan :wof:
    he needs to win the champions league
     
  11. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    when forlan left atletico, he told in an interview that he thanks spain, the country of his grand mother (basque actually), for allowing him to play, when english premier league didn't allow him to play
    it is interesting to note that forlan already speaks italian, because he studied in a bilingual college
    (this one: http://www.scuolaitaliana.edu.uy/hhome2.cgi?,0,1)
     
  12. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Inter got rid of Eto'o (exiled to some Russian wasteland) and brought in Forlan. And they kept Sneijder... Good job!
    Although, in keeping with their name ("Internazionale"), they are hardly signing any Italians for years now (Ranocchia and Pazzini are the only ones). However, they have relied on some good white players from Argentina.
    Now let's hope the player's strike will be called off and Serie A will start sooner rather than later. I rather enjoy watching the Italian league as opposed to the English one for obvious reasons...
     
  13. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    often, i don't understand what inter tries to do
    buying etoo was an enormous mistake, he was old, and even older because like all african players, he gave a fake age when coming to europe, actually he is older (and, also, he is a bad player)
    when inter won the champions league two years ago, etoo played, because he was important marketing-wise, but he played as a left back in the most important matches, milito was the only foward
    and milito scored the two goals of his team in the final

    but, the year after this, the new coach decides to play with etoo as a foward, and milito never played
    why?
    of course they lost the serie A and the champions league this year, but it was predictable

    now they buy forlan, but why do they buy the japanese? (i won't even write his name), the nigerian, the ghanean? why the french-dutch piece of **** luc castaignos (black)?
    they bought an argentine this year, from velez sarsfield, but i watched the copa america, and he is nothing special (argentine clubs are really ****ty right now, like argentine national team)

    and i'm happy that they buy few italian players, because i think they are bad

    they will win next year's champions league, but after that, the main white players will be too old....

    the main players for me:

    the brazilians: julio cesar (white, italian)
    lucio (white, italian) : he is the best player of the team for me
    motta (white, italian)
    maicon (mestizo)

    the argentines: cambiasso (italian and french)
    zanetti (italian)
    milito (south italian)
    samuel (jew)

    + chivu (he is very good, very very good)

    they are all very old, wich is good, because you can't win a champions league with teenagers, but i see nobody in the club to replace them
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2011
  14. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Some of the choices above were made by previous coaches (especially Benitez), so currently there is a mishmash of players.
    The Japanese (Sumitomo) is an interesting case. I think he was at least in part a marketing move as big European teams try to put Asians in to create a "brand" in Asia. See ManU with Park (Corean) - and then the Glazers (the Jewish owners of ManU) go to Singapore and try to sell a batch of ridiculously overpriced ManU stock to the Asian public. They also think they can sell more merchandise in that "huge market". It's all calculated to create a "global brand" and squeeze even the last penny out of the fans or the fashion concious...

    Regarding Forlan, he won't be able to play in Champions League, at least not in the group stage, as he played in the pre-group rounds for Atletico... big problem for him and Inter!!! Supposedly they were not aware of this little detail.
    And I don't think they will win CL, not even Serie A this year.
    I love Forlan, btw.
     
  15. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    you are 100% right about the big teams trying to have players from asia to gain bigger audience
    it's the same with real madrid
    florentino perez said few years ago that he was trying to buy a lot of muslim players to attract fans from the arab world

    about inter, forlan won't play the first part of the champions league, but inter will qualify, and forlan will come in the second phase in february

    who do you think will win serie A this year? i don't see a team better than inter right now in italy
    and who is your favorite in CL?
     
  16. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Regarding Serie A, I believe the favorite is still AC Milan. They lost Pirlo, which is an excellent middlefielder, but they did great without him last year when he was injured for most of the season and they are strong in MF with Van Bommel (excellent defensive MF in my opinion), Aquilani and others. In attack they still have the "Swede" Ibrahimovic and the white Brazilian Pato, granitic defense with Nesta & co. They will be the team to beat and are stronger than Inter.
    Apart from Milan, Juve will be stronger this year with the arival of Pirlo and Vucinic from Roma. They got rid of some annoying blacks this year - Sissoko to PSG, and Traore (who didn't play much but was promptly snatched by Arsenal).
    Inter is at the same level as Juve, maybe slightly stronger... depends how Forlan fits in.
    In CL I think this year Real might be stronger than last year, but Barcelona with the arival of Fabergas will again be almost unbeatable. I like Barca although I am aware that the team that wins too much ends up being disliked by many. However, I like their playing style of passing and moving the ball and of ball possession and technical skill, rather than the physical play like the PL teams full of black body-builders with marble feet. Barcelona players are so short that they rarely do crosses from a corner, but their skill with the ball is great. In addition, I like their nationalistic phylosophy where they favor the players from Catalonia first and foremost, Spain second, rest of the world third. I think something like 6-7 players were born in Barcelona (or immediate outskirts). This splendid "our guys", "nationalistic" and "local-patriotic" attitude used to be common until 20+ years ago, but is unheard of today. Modern football's "big" teams look more like multinational companies - faceless, identity-less, globalistic, black-hearted money-machines. Being a fan of Inter Milan, Real Madrid or ManU must more and more feel like supporting CocaCola, IBM or General Electric.
     
  17. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    first, thanks for your predictions, i always enjoy discussing predictions

    juventus improved this year, but there is no player in this team that really stands out
    they have world class players like toni, amauri, quagliarella, buffon
    they will place well, but milan ac and inter are still better i think

    about milan ac, they were the best last year, but inter did really improve
    think about it: they played with etoo and biabiany as fowards, with sometimes pandev and milito, and this year as fowards they have pazzini, forlan, milito and zarate
    this is a huge improvement
    i remember last year when pazzini came to inter
    it was embarassing for etoo
    inter palermo: 2-0 for palermo, inter playing with etoo
    then pazzini came in
    he scored two goals and obtained a penalty
    [video=youtube;NmcwEyDvoyQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmcwEyDvoyQ&feature=related[/video]

    and forlan needs no introduction

    in comparison, milan ac has pato, wich is i think the most skilled player right now, even better than messi
    but, he has to play with ibrahimowicz and robinho, and both are really individualists, so pato gets really few balls during a match
    the same happens with brazil national team
    pato has so much talent that he needs to play like a real foward(while he usually plays as a winger) and with players that are here to pass him the ball

    you mentionned milan ac granitic defence, but inter is better in that department also i think
    because milan ac bought two left backs, taiwo and emmanuelson, both blacks, and taiwo is really bad
    nobody understood why milan bought taiwo, he was critisised in france, and you know that in italy, defences are slightly better than in france :biggrin:
    they also bought mexes, so mexes should play, because he was expensive
    so there is a place left, or two if they play with three central defenders, for : yepes, nesta, and thiago silva
    these three are world class, but mexes is not

    while the central defence of inter, with samuel and lucio, is perfect (last year samuel was injuried for a long time, also a thing that will improve)


    van bommel is strong, but motta is better :biggrin:


    about the CL, i will be happy if barcelona win it , because of all the reasons you gave
    barcelona will be better than last year, and they won it last year, so they obviously are expected to win
    the best central defenders for me are lucio-coates (i put them together bcause they play the same way) , then the italians (nesta for example) and then puyol is in the list
    he is almost impossible to beat in one-on-one, because he is so powerfull, and explosive
    only denilson was able to get passed him :biggrin:
    [video=youtube;8eZ5MCUWRvw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eZ5MCUWRvw[/video]


    regarding the big clubs, this is why i do not support a team, i support players, because these teams are always changing and i don't want to support players that i don't like
    i support players i can identify with (=that look like me or come from the same region)


    a last fact about forlan: inter bought him for only 5 millions euros, he was for example cheaper than djibril cissé :cry:

    as i said, i am confident about forlan winnig the CL this year
    inter-barcelona, amongst others, will be a beautifull match to watch
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011
  18. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    forlan scored in his first match with inter milan
    he played very well
    snejder gave him good passes

    inter lost, but don't pay too much attention to this result
    it was against palermo in palermo, they always are difficult to beat there

    and at one point, inter had the lead, and then there was 2-2
    the coach then decided to try to win this game, substituting a attacking player (ricardo alvarez) to cambiasso
    they didn't win, but they tried
    they could have kept the score to 2-2, but they wanted something else than a draw


    here is forlan's match
    [video=youtube;KqoSPEZb8P0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqoSPEZb8P0&feature=plcp&context=C3d598c9U DOEgsToPDskKxrjGP3189HhtmDrGrzCwp[/video]

    i hope the video doesn't get censored :police:

    the goal:
    [video=youtube;BV0jIYuEe_E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV0jIYuEe_E&feature=plcp&context=C37c7c6eU DOEgsToPDskJhf3kVYLnMbD-v-k3WZSAh[/video]
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  19. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Forlan is great, but inter was dissapointing. Palermo is a weaker team this year - they sold Javier Pastore and Antonio Nocerino, some of their best players. And against such a team Inter concedes 4 goals!? Obviously, they have some issues in defence.
    Have you seen the Juve match againsta Parma (4-1)? Pirlo played fantastic with two great assists (I just love this kind of "passing" players), and Marchisio (the "little prince") scoring an outstanding goal from one of these (their 4th goal). For now the most convincing team, but it's only the first game.
     
  20. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    inter tried something new this year
    they tried to play with 3 defenders (3-4-3)
    but they were not ready
    for example at the start of the match, forlan played on the left, zarate on the right, and milito as foward
    after 30 min, the coach changed it all, and sneijder came in in place of zarate
    and they played with two fowards
    so they are obviously not ready

    juventus really impressed, but parma is really weak, they didn't even play with crespo...
    i am not worried about inter, they have so much experience
     
  21. Giles Daldanus

    Giles Daldanus Guru

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    161
    Location:
    Europe
    Forlan is an excellent player and has mesmerizing skills! He also tends to be influential in derby matches and is noted for his sportsmanship (I think that he has never been sent off).

    I am surprised that Inter are crumbling so fast, though...They lost (without Forlan) 0:1 at home to Trabzonspor (who are not even the Turkish Superlig Champions, but finished in second place and administratively replaced Fenerbahce, as UEFA excluded the latter from the competition due to match-fixing allegations).
     
  22. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    yes, and also he never simulates, dives, or even criticize the referee's decision


    for the match against the turkish club, inter played without samuel, motta, stankovic, forlan, milito, chivu ect (and also the "turks" scored on their only semi-occasion)
    i am not worried, their champions league group is really easy
    but the coach might get fired for this bad start
    luis figo is rumored to be the next coach
    let's see what they can do against AS roma in serie A

    as you said, forlan is the best in the important matches
    this is an important match, against a good team
    AS roma lost their first match, but really impressed, played very well (their coach is barcelonian luis enrique, rumored to be barca's next coach after guardiola, so as roma tries to play like barcelona)
     
  23. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Watched a peice of the Inter match against Roma today (0:0). Forlan played OK. While Inter was trying to score, Forlan got replaced around 70th minute by Muntari from Ghana (who was horrible and is not even an attacker) ...while Pazzini was on the bench?! Inter's coach is retarded.

    On the Roma side I saw a really good defender - Simon Kjaer from Denmark. The black Brazilian defender from Inter - Jonathan - was unwatchable...
     
  24. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    yes
    the coach was scared, he didn't want to lose
    it seems pazzini will only play in champions league :noidea:
    forlan is the kind of player that needs to play all the match
    he can score at every moment, even if he doesn't look good,if he plays badly

    i saw kjaer at the last world cup
    i think it's a good thing for him to play in italy, where good defenders are appreciated

    what was bad about jonathan?
    i saw him play, and he looked skilled (better than obi )
    but i didn't saw him defend, so maybe he doesn't know how to defend
    maicon will come back from injury, and jonathan will go back on the bench i think
    obi shouldn't play, but nowadays you HAVE to play with an african player
     
  25. Porthos

    Porthos Mentor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2011
    Messages:
    520
    Location:
    California
    Jonathan:
    - Positioning: he is a Brasilian defender and therefore tends to go forward a lot, but instead of doubling down on the wing (as a fullback should usually do), he goes in the middle - somebody explain to him he is not a striker
    - therefore he is not providing crosses (I don't remember a single one in this game - and I watched mostly the last 25 minutes or so)
    - even with all his attacking tendencies, he seems to not be able to dribble/take out a defender, no ability/will to risk
    - today, basic technique errors (at one point comical: kicks to the left, ball goes to the right etc.) - I believe you he is skilled if you say so, but today he was "mister marble feet"
    - because he tends to go forward too much, his contribution in defence is more than modest
    - slow for a fullback
     
  26. frederic38

    frederic38 Hall of Famer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,774
    Location:
    france-grenoble
    yes, he is relatively slow
    but for example nagatomo is faster, but less powerfull

    about his positioning, it's a new trend created by uruguay and followed by a lot of teams recently:
    in uruguay, there are no middlefielder, there are defensive players (the central defenders, gargano, perez, ect) and fowards (cavani, suarez, forlan, hernandez ect)
    and the full backs play like fowards (fucile, alvaro perreira, maxi perreira, caceres,
    inter tries to play like that, but with 3 central defenders (zanetti-rannochia, lucio and samuel between the two)
    so nagatomo, obi and jonathan (and later in the season maicon) will play very offensively

    however, i saw jonathan walking in some defensive actions for inter: this is typical south-american lack of consistency

    forlan's match against as roma:

    [video=youtube;iG7cDvPj0wE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG7cDvPj0wE&feature=plcp&context=C3e17d6bU DOEgsToPDskJF3cpAQYMYKvccl6WcK-2d[/video]

    also, good maych once again from sneijder, and first good match for zarate (he was horrible in the first two matches)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012

Share This Page