Dirk Nowitzki

Discussion in 'NBA' started by JD074, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. pistol pete

    pistol pete Guru

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    Giovani,

    if Dirk were black they would be on him about not having won a championship.
    Since he is white they just try not to talk about him. I think it helps Dirk some allowing him to
    go out there and just play basketball.

    I really appreciated the Bird-Nique style duel in game 1.If the Mavs and Heat advance and want to hype the Final into a Bird (Dirk) vs. Magic (Lebron) thing then that would be great. Dirk doesn't have Bird's three rings but his numbers are great. If Dirk wins a ring then he could end his career right up there with Bird among the all-time greats.
    I think a title this year and one next year would make Dirk's accomplishment almost as good as Bird's. Remember, Bird had that Hall of Fame front line. Also, two Finals MVP awards would tie him with Larry Legend.

    I really hope that Dirk gets a ring. Great player, a real professional. I also think that Kidd, Peja, Marion, and Terry have Been great pros who deserve a ring. A title would really validate Kidd's standing as one of the top 4 or 5 point guards ever. Having a pass-first point guard winning a ring as one of the main stars would be great. Hasn't really been done since Magic. Stockton came close though (twice).

    A championship would validate the Mavs philosophy of great shooting, passing, finesse, and team play. Great scorers who have a great team dynamic.

    Dirk reminds me some of Hakeem Olajuwon. Great fundamentals to go along with great size and length. Hakeem had a great career for awhile, as well as a Finals loss, then won an NBA championship by playing awesome, then came back and won an MVP award and another championship. With that two year run he went from being a very good player and all star to being a first ballot Hall of Famer and one of the 10 or 12 greatest NBA players ever.
     
  2. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    Great article on how Dirk is defying stereotypes...

    http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2011/05/18/1896596/mavericks-nowitzki-outplays-all.html

    Mavericks' Nowitzki outplays all the stereotypes</font>
    By JOHN SMALLWOOD - Philadelphia Daily News
    Wednesday, May 18, 2011

    It's probably the most negative label in sports - "Soft."

    I'm not sure what its true definition in sports is because "soft or being soft" tends to evolve depending on whom you want to tag with it.

    Dallas Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki has that label.

    Depending on whom you ask, Nowitzki, a former NBA Most Valuable Player, is soft because he's from Germany and plays a passive-aggressive European style; because he is a seven-footer but doesn't like to mix it up in the paint; because he crumbles under the pressure of the playoffs and takes the Mavericks flaming out with him.

    It's all a bunch of hooey, and most of it is generated from American stereotypes about what basketball players look like and how that should translate into the style they play.

    Seven-footers are supposed to be guys who play with their backs to the basket, mix it up down low and provide an intimidating presence.

    They aren't supposed to play the game 18 feet from the basket.

    But if it makes that player into one of the top 10 players of his generation, which Nowitzki is, why not?

    Why would anyone want to change Nowitzki's game when it has been so successful in the NBA?

    "When you're a big guy and you're a jump shooter, that's automatically a label of being soft," said Nowitzki, who scored 48 and made 24 of 24 free throws in the Mavs' victory over the Oklahoma City Thunder in Game 1 of the Western Conference finals on Tuesday.

    That's just prejudicial thinking.

    The reality is that a "soft" player couldn't have accomplished anything close to what Nowitzki has in his career.

    How is it "soft" to average 23 points and 8.4 rebounds in a 13-year career during which he has played at least 73 games in every season except his rookie one?

    How does a "soft" player make 10 consecutive All-Star teams, All-NBA first team four times and All-NBA second team five times, and be named the 2007 MVP?

    A "soft" player cannot.

    People say Nowitzki, 32, is the best European player in NBA history, and that is true.

    But "European" is an unnecessary qualifier that actually works to distract from how great a player Nowitzki has been over the last decade.

    If we consider active players with at least a 10-year resume in the league, Nowitzki is right there with Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Jason Kidd, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen as the best players.

    Only O'Neal, Garnett, Duncan and Bryant have made more All-Star teams.

    Historically, Nowitzki ranks 23rd on the NBA all-time scoring list with 22,792 points.

    He scored 1,681 points this season.

    If Nowitzki averages 1,500 points over the final three seasons of his current contract, he will move into the top 10 ahead of players like Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Allen Iverson and Charles Barkley.

    At some point, Nowitzki will become the first European player inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame strictly because of his NBA career.

    If that translates into playing "soft," then put Nowitzki on my team.

    Are Philadelphia fans glad the Sixers passed on the "soft" Euro kid and selected "St. Louis-hard" Larry Hughes a spot before Nowitzki in 1998?

    Much of Nowitzki's reputation comes from the fact that despite Dallas winning at least 50 games for 11 consecutive seasons, the Mavericks have not won a championship.

    Whether it is fair or not, Nowitzki, as the Mavs' superstar player, pulls the heaviest baggage.

    That's just the way things work.

    But in Nowitzki and the Mavericks' defense, they play in the same division as the San Antonio Spurs, who have won four NBA titles since Nowitzki was drafted.

    The Los Angeles Lakers, who are also in the Western Conference with Dallas, have won five titles in the same span.

    San Antonio and the Lakers, the two teams Dallas has to get through just to get out of the West, have played in 11 of the last 12 NBA Finals.

    Dallas made it to the Finals in 2006, but that is when Nowitzki's "soft" label went viral.

    After the Mavericks won the first two games, the Miami Heat, led by Finals MVP Dwyane Wade and O'Neal, won four straight to take the title.

    Nowitzki, the regular-season MVP, averaged 22.8 points and 10.8 rebounds in the Finals but was said to have come up small during Dallas' greatest moments of need.

    Again, that's the criticism that comes with being a star player, but the legacy of Nowitzki choking in the playoffs has been greatly exaggerated.

    Through his career, Nowitzki has actually performed better against amped-up playoff defenses.

    During the regular season, Nowitzki has career averages of 23 points and 8.4 rebounds in 36.5 minutes.

    In the playoffs, Nowitzki averages 25.8 points and 10.6 rebounds in 41.4 minutes. His free-throw attempts also climb from 6.5 in the regular season to 8.8 in the playoffs.

    During Nowitzki's time in the NBA, Reggie Miller, Iverson, LeBron James and Dwight Howard all lost in their only appearance in the Finals, but none of them was labeled "soft."

    The difference is nothing more than American stereotyping of European players - labels that don't apply to Nowitzki.
     
  3. whiteathlete33

    whiteathlete33 Hall of Famer

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    Good read!! [​IMG]
     
  4. Deadlift

    Deadlift Hall of Famer

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    Dallas is unable to play effective D.

    Jason Kidd is ROBOTIC, and this was very visible in Game 2. Terry is a defensive liability. Dirk had stiff-hips on several occasions. Haywood is WEAK. They really could use Marcin Gortat about now.

    They could use an "upgrade" to DeShawn Stevenson and Corey Brewer as well. OKC is looking like they are the team with the deeper bench.
     
  5. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    That was gutsy coaching by Scott Brooks, he actually benched Westbrook for the WHOLE 4th period, and Dallas underestimated the likes of Collison (clutch FT's), Maynor, and Harden.

    Dallas better make some adjustments for Game 3, and Dirk had better let go that missed FT and focus on the next game. But, I imagine the critics will use that missed FT to label him SOFT and CHOKER again.

    The Dallas bench appears to have met their match.
     
  6. Kaptain

    Kaptain Master

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    Peja and Barera need to playing more minutes. Peja is a good defender, there is no reason he shouldn't be playing over 1/2 of the minutes. Terry and kidd should be sitting more.
     
  7. ToughJ.Riggins

    ToughJ.Riggins Hall of Famer

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    I agree that Peja and Barea need to play more, but I think at the expense of Marion and Kidd. Terry has been clutch this playoffs. Marion missed a few easy layups in game two.

    Game two got too rough (street ballish). Barea was rammed into with a bigger player's arm/shoulder a couple times when he was back peddling and he had his arms straight up and his body completely vertical when he was impacted. Durant pushed off on his shot a few times and I saw Harden do this once as well. Dirk had a shot or two that he looked to have pushed off or lowered his shoulder into a lateral player with his arms straight up also though. A couple times a Thunder player was sent to the line where it didn't look like he was fouled either.

    It still looked as though the Thunder had 5 or 6 calls go their way they shouldn't have and the Mavericks only had 2 or 3. That shouldn't happen in Dallas!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
     
  8. celticdb15

    celticdb15 Hall of Famer

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    Yeah officiating has really pissed me off. I hate how they baby Durant, just because he is a twig and can't handle a little contact. Doesn't mean they should call fouls on DeShawn Stevenson for playing tough D! Also did you guys see that foul they called on Terry, where supposedly fouled James Harden on that 3 pointer? The ref immediately blew his whistle and Harden executed a 4 point play. There was another foul they called on Dirk where he didn't even touch the OKC player but was called for a foul.
    I think Dallas wins this series based on they will not give up or pout as Russell Westbrook did in the face of adversity. I'm glad Scott Brooks sat him for the 4th quarter. Dallas could be a dominant team if they had Gortat, I'd like to see them draft Jon Leuer, I think he could contribute immediately off the bench and play solid D, get rebounds, and add a scoring element.
     
  9. icsept

    icsept Master

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    I guess this is the defacto Dallas playoff thread...

    Deshawn Stevenson is horrible - I have no idea how this guy has survived in the league for 10 years. He is a low percentage shooter and prone to turnovers. His defense is useless because he doesn't have the respect of the refs and is constantly called for fouls. Dallas definitely misses Caron Butler. There is no use for Stevenson, so you might as well go with as much offense as possible, and keep Peja and JJ in the game.

    I know its for TV, but Dallas is getting screwed by having to play Saturday and the Heat don't play until Sunday. Dallas needs as many days off between games as possible. They are about 10 years older than the Thunder across the board.

    Thunder's bench couldn't miss a shot last night, but that won't happen every night. This will probably go 7 games with Dallas winning. Hopefully they will have something left for the Finals.
     
  10. pistol pete

    pistol pete Guru

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    In game 2 the Mavs were about by double digits then took Dirk out of the game for his normal rest. I thought they should have left him in there and really stomped on their throats and gotten the lead to 20. But the Thunder came back and made it a game by the end of the first half.

    What is hurting the Mavs is the Thunder's bench. Jame Harden was on fire and Nick Collison was kicking butt.

    Shawn Marion missed some layups and floaters which didn't help the situation.Now the Mavs need to win one in OKC then come back and win game 5 in Dallas.
     
  11. stik

    stik Newbie

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    Even though I'm not a big Barkley fan, I respect the fact that he said Dirk is right now the best player in the NBA. I love the fact Dirk is finally getting his just dues as being a great basketball player, long overdue.
     
  12. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    Mavs 93, Thunder 87

    Wow.... congrats to the Mavs for playing THRU the refs yesterday! NONE of the calls were going the Mavs way at ALL, even though they were getting HACKED! Yet the refs tried everything they could to get OKC back in the game to spoon-feed them the w... FAIL! [​IMG]

    Way to go Mavs, nice win!
     
  13. Deadlift

    Deadlift Hall of Famer

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    The "PTB" is simply trying to justify their ridiculous HYPE of guys like Durant and D-Rose. While the media prefers Miami to come out of the East, they would still very much LOVE a "Durant -vs- Rose" NBA Finals. That's the worst case scenario in my view. Sure, both of them are ball-hogs and neither possess "all-world skills".. but that's just it, neither are deserving of a RING right now!

    The PTB would say, "see, these guys are GODS, we told you so! These are young SUPERMEN and they will save the NBA.."

    With Lebron and D-Wade, it's a completely different, and, to me, less nauseating situation. BOTH are veterans now and both play DEFENSE. Lebron has also dished out assists ever since he stepped foot in the NBA (unlike Kobe and D-Rose).


    P.S. -- In yesterday's game, Durant should be given an "assist" because he continues to think of himself as a sniper (from 3 point range).. when he isn't! ZERO for 8, I love it!!
     
  14. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    I'm so happy the Mavs got the win. Like you guys said, the refs were far from kind and Dirk had an average game. Despite it all, they did what they had to do. I still think game 4 is huge. They have the Thunder on their heels and they are second guessing themselves a little. Now is time for that killer instict. I'm hoping for another sensational game from Dirk and his teammates. If they can steal game 4, I believe the series will be about over. Oklahoma is too young and immature to bounce back from a 3-1 deficit. Come on Mavs. GET THIS NEXT GAME!
     
  15. GiovaniMarcon

    GiovaniMarcon Mentor

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    It would be so great if Nowitzki were able to get the Mavs past this round and eventually win the championship.

    That, on top of the Packers winning the Superbowl and other recent, high-profile White triumphs in a multitude of sports can help do a lot to smash ridiculous stereotypes.
     
  16. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    Yup, good thing Westbrook and Harden tried to play hero ball. Funny to watch Durant stand around hoping Westbrook decides to give him the ball.
     
  17. guest301

    guest301 Hall of Famer

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    The Mavs are a veteran team playing with a controlled desparation and that will get them past the Thunder in six or less. In the NBA, experience carries you a long way. Dirk knows how to be a closer in the last ten minutes and demand the ball and Durant doesn't.
     
  18. Toby Hillis

    Toby Hillis Guru

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    Prophecy
     
  19. foobar75

    foobar75 Master

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    WOW!!! What a game, Dirk with 40 pts and the Mavs win in OT. This has to be the year for Dirk to finally win that elusive ring! After tonight's game, I'm now convinced. [​IMG]
     
  20. BeyondFedUp

    BeyondFedUp Master

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    Just ended the game with a 17 to 2 run to tie it and then won it in OT. Dirk ends up with 40, awesome!
     
  21. white lightning

    white lightning Hall of Famer Staff Member

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    Ok guys. For anyone who doesn't think Dirk is an all time top 10-15 player, you better think again. He is that good. Dirk always has been but he just never had the supporting cast. If only Steve Nash, Collison, Lafrentz and some others would have stayed there. Even M.Finley was a good player. The thing is though that Dirk never complained. He always stayed loyal to the city and the team. That is rare these days. Just ask Lebron James.

    The guy is just amazing. His ability to shoot a basketball is just like Bird! He is top ten in my honest opinion. I want him to get that ring so bad! Let's go Mavs. End it in five. Don't underestimate this team. Put the nails in the coffin on Wed. Night and move on to the Championship.

    I'm so pumped right now. Dirk Mania running wild! Absolute Legend!!![​IMG]
     
  22. foobar75

    foobar75 Master

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    Just watched some of the post-game coverage on ESPN, and all their analysts are in shock-and-awe mode! They cannot believe what Dirk is doing. He's an unstoppable force, a 7-footer who can shoot it from anywhere, by any means necessary. Several of his baskets should have been "and 1"s, giving him 45 pts. That one off-balance shot from the corner within the final minute was sick!
     
  23. texasheat

    texasheat Newbie

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    I've been watching Dirk for 10+ years down here in Dallas and I am in shock-and-awe mode as well! He's obviously been a top notch player for years now but he is taken it to the next level this playoffs. The shots he made in the 4th quarter were nothing short of ridiculous!! The Mavs have been in Dallas since 1980 & I can't recall a bigger win in franchise history. I mean, to come back from 15 down with less than 5 minutes to go. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????
     
  24. j41181

    j41181 Master

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    Tonight's performance no doubt raised the bar even HIGHER for Dirk. Prior to facing Oklahoma, most fans and critics alike would consider Nowitzki a Top 30-50 All-Timer at best. Now, after dropping 2 EPIC 40-points games (48 & 40 points) against a very young, "athletic", and very lengthy Thunder team, the latter of which is more amazing, because it came in an amazing 15 point deficit comeback win (with less than 5 minutes to go, and overtime), Dirk is now officially a Top 10-20 All-Timer.

    A return trip to the Finals, and winning the NBA title (to go with the Finals MVP), will AUTOMATICALLY thrust Dirk Nowitzki into ANYONE'S Top 5-10 All-Time lists.

    Let's also give tremendous credit to Dirk's teammates, namely Kidd, Terry, Chandler, Haywood, and Marion. Their defensive hustles and clutch plays helped make Dirk's night all the more LEGENDARY.

    Way to go, Dallas!!!! [​IMG]
     
  25. DWFan

    DWFan Mentor

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    I hate watching basketball but I have to admit that this is awesome!
     

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