the next step for white US heavyweights

[referendum]

This was touched on in another thread but I felt it deserved its own thread. There is a nice squad of white American heavyweight boxers out there, but they seem stuck in a rankings rut. Unlike the Slavic fighters who have stampeded to the front of the rankings and taken the title belts, with more waiting in the wings in the eliminator fights, White Americans don't seem to be in any big fights.
It seems that fighters like Mollo and Fields, Mesi, Minto etc. keep fighting obscure journeymen. Is this their choice, or is it hard to arrange a fight with a top calibre opponent. I do believe one boxer (Minto?) fought against Krasniqi in some eliminator fight a while ago, but outside of that it doesn't seem that anyone is stepping up to the plate, or being allowed to, if thats the problem. Meanwhile, all the top non-US white fighters seem to be slugging it out in higher profile, higher ranked opponent matches.
JD, I'd like to hear your take on this. I'm new to the boxing scene, but its frustrating seeing time go by without any of the american whites make a rise to the top rank, which boxers like Chagaev, Povetkin, Ibragimov etc. have been able to do.
Edited by: referendum

 

[white is right]

Mollo is rumoured to be fighting Golota on a King promoted card soon. I have heard it was going to be the Jones-Trinidad card in MSG. Fields was rumoured to fight Hasbeen Rockhead, that fight fell through. Mesi can't get real fights because of his medical cloud and Minto is on the comeback trail. I hope this helps.

 

[Liverlips]

We have a lot of white American heavies around the B level and a few who might be able to take it farther. Joe Mesi might have won a belt in 2004 if he did not get banned for suffering a head injury.

Tye Fields
Joe Mesi
J.D. Chapman
Mike Marrone
Mike Mollo
Brian Minto
Adam Richards
Joey Abell
Tony Grano
Chauncey Welliver

I know I am in the minority, but I think Fields has the best shot at getting a championship belt. He is big, strong and has lots of stamina and heart. He is getting a little old (32) and needs to step up the pace though. I hope that fight with Rahman comes through because Tye will KO Hasim.

 

[Guest]

Fields has been in the pros for nine years and he's still fighting no one but losers. I don't know what the story is there. If Baby Joe can really come back, I think he's head and shoulders above the rest.





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[Tired old White]

The promoter for Pavlik - Miranda made a statement that it was difficult to match Pavlik with quality opponents. A similar statement was made after Maglinagi - N'Dou. Sounds like the talented US whites are being ducked. I bet the ducking is even worse for the Heavy weights with all the Slavic fighters flooding the division.

 

[Charles Martel]

JD, I'd like to hear your take on this. I'm new to the boxing scene, but its frustrating seeing time go by without any of the american whites make a rise to the top rank, which boxers like Chagaev, Povetkin, Ibragimov etc. have been able to do.

I think their management holds them back from fighting better opposition for some reason. Some say JD Chapman looked better two years ago than he does today, because he's not improving against tomato cans. His last opponent, Marcus Rhodes, was KOed by Butterbean a few years ago. Ty Fields is almost past his prime but he still hasn't fought even a fringe contender.

A few young black fighters such as Eddie Chambers have stepped up, and the Hispanic Arreola has fought some decent opponents. With the exception of Malik Scott, their opposition has generally been better than the white boxers.

I believe there's a kind of caste system in American boxing, where the people with influence seem to want the top fighters to be black men. Remember, there is still a very strong Jewish influence in American boxing, more so than in Europe. JD Chapman and some of the other white boxers have Jewish promoters, and Mollo and others are promoted by Don King. If they have an equal chance of making money with their black and white fighters, who will they give the best opportunity to?

 

[white is right]

There also was in the past thing of protecting white heavyweights (North American ones), because eventually they could be ranked high enough to get big money fights. This protection probably ruined some prospects. I recall Duane Bobick rotting on the vine because of this. Cooney and Morrison to lesser extent were guided like this. Once these guys stepped they generally failed because they didn't have tough fight experiences to fall back on. In the lighter divisions white fighters were never kept on tight leashes like this and more became organizational champions because of this. If Pavlik was a heavyweight I don't think he would have fought Miranda before fighting Taylor and he might not have had the experience to rally back when he was badly wobbled in the second round.

 

[Hockaday]

There also was in the past thing of protecting white heavyweights (North American ones), because eventually they could be ranked high enough to get big money fights. This protection probably ruined some prospects. I recall Duane Bobick rotting on the vine because of this. Cooney and Morrison to lesser extent were guided like this. Once these guys stepped they generally failed because they didn't have tough fight experiences to fall back on. In the lighter divisions white fighters were never kept on tight leashes like this and more became organizational champions because of this. If Pavlik was a heavyweight I don't think he would have fought Miranda before fighting Taylor and he might not have had the experience to rally back when he was badly wobbled in the second round.

I agree. White is Right is right.

 

[Guest]

The next step is for Fields and Mollo to get matches against contenders. If Bergeron gets a match against a good boxer then Fields and Mollo certainly deserve one.

 

[JD074]

Remember, there is still a very strong Jewish influence in American boxing, more so than in Europe. JD Chapman and some of the other white boxers have Jewish promoters, [snip]

So does Pavlik. Arum stood up for Kelly and said that he was being denied opportunities because he was a "white kid from the Midwest." His statements both support the idea that there is prejudice against white fighters, but also debunks the idea that all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters.

One possibility is that some of these white American fighters simply aren't that good. But you all are right that we need to see them against stiff opposition to know for sure. We found out where Abell stands, hopefully we'll soon see where Fields, Chapman, Mollo, and the rest stand. I don't know about Fields and Chapman, but Mollo seems really talented. He wiped out a fighter (McBride) who gave Golota all he could handle. Edited by: JD074

 

[Charles Martel]

Remember, there is still a very strong Jewish influence in American boxing, more so than in Europe. JD Chapman and some of the other white boxers have Jewish promoters, [snip]

So does Pavlik. Arum stood up for Kelly and said that he was being denied opportunities because he was a "white kid from the Midwest." His statements both support the idea that there is prejudice against white fighters, but also debunks the idea that all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters.

No one posted that "all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters" - that's hyperbole, exaggerating what I posted to make it seem extreme and irrational!

Arum's attempting to get Pavlik on HBO doesn't necessarily mean there are no Jewish promoters who are prejudiced against white boxers, anymore than some Jews disapproval of Israel's bombing of Lebanon last summer means that there were no Jews who approved of it! Arum is just ONE individual, and he was going against the wishes of the Jewish establishment in the sport of boxing by suggesting Pavlik had great potential and should be featured on HBO! He could get away with it because he's Jewish himself and is one of the most influential boxing promoters.

Arum has been promoting top level boxers for over 35 years, but as far as I know, Pavlik is his first top level white fighter. Arum's greatest concern right now is probably the decline in the popularity of boxing during the last 15 years, and he has an idea that the sport can win back some of the "middle American" boxing fans with an exciting young fighter like Pavlik! At Arum's age, the popularity of his sport - boxing - is probably more important to him than following along with the old Jewish hatred of white gentiles.

Anyway, if you think all Jews think the same way, do a google search for Israel Sharak and read some of what he's written! Most Jews DO always support black fighters over white ones because they don't like white gentiles, but that doesn't mean every Jew in the world is like that.
Edited by: JD1986

 

[Guest]

"No one posted that "all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to
destroy white fighters" - that's hyperbole, exaggerating what I posted
to make it seem extreme and irrational!"

Well said, JD!



"Israel's bombing of Lebanon last summer..."

Israel dropped 4 MILLION fragmentation bombs on the civilian population of Lebanon last year, all paid for by US taxpayers. Hillary Clinton and the Bush crime gang and all the rest of them were screaming for more blood, but Barak Obama did the bitch Hillary one better. He went to Israel to demonstrate his support for their ongoing war crimes.

God bless the righteous Jews, like Israel Shahak and Israel Shamir.

GO RON PAUL!!!




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[JD074]

No one posted that "all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters" - that's hyperbole, exaggerating what I posted to make it seem extreme and irrational!

Relax. I've read Kevin MacDonald, I know where you're coming from. But I'm not exaggerating, and you know it. All this Jewish stuff just gets old after awhile. It can't possibly be good for the site. Let's stick to talking up the athletes.


Oh, and what do you think about my second point? Is it possible that some of these guys just aren't that good? Not every HW can be as good as Wlad, Iggy, or Sasha, you know!

Edited by: JD074

 

[Charles Martel]

No one posted that "all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters" - that's hyperbole, exaggerating what I posted to make it seem extreme and irrational!

Relax. I've read Kevin MacDonald, I know where you're coming from. But I'm not exaggerating, and you know it. All this Jewish stuff just gets old after awhile. It can't possibly be good for the site. Let's stick to talking up the athletes.


Oh, and what do you think about my second point? Is it possible that some of these guys just aren't that good? Not every HW can be as good as Wlad, Iggy, or Sasha, you know!

Is it possible because you know how much influence certain people have, reading posts mentioning them makes you nervous? I know where you're coming from, there's good reason to fear them. However, I think it's good for people to become aware of WHY white athletes are discriminated against.

Is it possible that some of these American white guys ARE really good, but are/were being held back? Ty Fields is getting past his best fighting age, and still hasn't stepped up. Why? Is it a coincidence that very talented white boxers sometimes get misdiagnosed with AIDS (Morrison)? Or that the best American white heavyweight of the past ten years, Joe Mesi, was stopped from fighting when he was about to go for a title, because of supposed brain damage, which has since been found to be not serious after all? Something rotten is going on, but you feel I shouldn't post about it because "it gets old after awhile".

If ALL white men had the courage to stand up for themselves and for their people, there would be no caste system in sports.

Think about this: there was a WBO light heavyweight title fight in Germany today. I watched it on Sopcast, and it was clearly a fairly wide decision win for the white guy Zsolt Erdei over the mixed race fighter, Tito Mendoza. The two gentile judges had it 116-112 and 117-111 for Erdei, scores that made sense. But the Jewish judge Glenn Hirch scored the fight a ridiculous 111-117 for Mendoza!! If there would have been two Jewish judges, Erdei would have lost his title.Edited by: JD1986

 

[freedom1]

If Tommy Morrison would've taken some different steps, e.g, boxing Ray Mercer, slugging with Lennox Lewis (instead of trying to box him), and wearing a condom, he would've done more damage to the Caste System than all the Slavs combined. Tommy was fast, exciting, handsome and loaded with charisma. Above all, he was American. The great grandson of John Wayne would've caught the American public's attention. He would've become as famous as Ali and Tyson. We need someone like him to get over the hump.

 

[Bart]

If Tommy Morrison would've taken some different steps,... he would've done more damage to the Caste System than all the Slavs combined.

I always liked Tommy and wished he hadaccomplished more, but unfortunately he didn't. It is the Slavs along with other Euros who have demolished black boxers in recent years. Youtube is filled with images of Negroes being pummeled, knocked out, and reduced to bloody pulps by the likes of fighters whose names most of us still can't pronounce correctly. Fact is the Klitschkos and the Russkieshave done more damage to the heavyweight caste system than all of the American boxers combinedduringthe last 50 years.

 

[freedom1]

I was talking about the public apathy.

 

[Guest]

Matchmaking in boxing is another crooked f'd up thing. There should be a more systematic and rational system. The way it is, the gangsters, tv stations, and moneybags arrange the fights. What if baseball was run that way? So then nobody would feel like playing the Yankees.



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Edited by: werewolf

 

[JD074]

Is it possible because you know how much influence certain people have, reading posts mentioning them makes you nervous? I know where you're coming from, there's good reason to fear them.

You're hilarious! I'm not afraid of Jews. And I'm certainly not "nervous" over writing about them on a message board. That would be truly crazy-paranoid!

I just don't think that Jew-bashing helps this site, or white athletes. Think about that for a second, if you don't mind. How exactly are we helping white athletes? Wouldn't it serve them better if we were simply an information source for white athletes, so that people could come here and learn about so many white athletes that they've never heard of before? That's really what they need. Publicity. Recognition. Respect.

However, I think it's good for people to become aware of WHY white athletes are discriminated against.

Occam's razor. White athletes are discriminated against because of a stereotype- propagated primarily by White gentiles like Fischer Deberry, Paul Hornung, Jimmy the Greek, etc.- that we're athletically inferior to blacks. There ya go. No Jew-bashing necessary.

Is it possible that some of these American white guys ARE really good, but are/were being held back?

Of course. It's also possible that at least some of them suck.

If ALL white men had the courage to stand up for themselves and for their people, there would be no caste system in sports.

Absolutely. Damn those white male Gentiles! They've really screwed over our athletes!!

But the Jewish judge Glenn Hirch scored the fight a ridiculous 111-117 for Mendoza!! If there would have been two Jewish judges, Erdei would have lost his title.

The Internet rumor is that he made a mistake! Geez. What an idiot, either way.

 

[Amren.com]

No one posted that "all the powerful Jews in the sport are trying to destroy white fighters" - that's hyperbole, exaggerating what I posted to make it seem extreme and irrational!

Relax. I've read Kevin MacDonald, I know where you're coming from. But I'm not exaggerating, and you know it. All this Jewish stuff just gets old after awhile. It can't possibly be good for the site. Let's stick to talking up the athletes.


Oh, and what do you think about my second point? Is it possible that some of these guys just aren't that good? Not every HW can be as good as Wlad, Iggy, or Sasha, you know!

Is it possible because you know how much influence certain people have, reading posts mentioning them makes you nervous? I know where you're coming from, there's good reason to fear them. However, I think it's good for people to become aware of WHY white athletes are discriminated against.

Is it possible that some of these American white guys ARE really good, but are/were being held back? Ty Fields is getting past his best fighting age, and still hasn't stepped up. Why? Is it a coincidence that very talented white boxers sometimes get misdiagnosed with AIDS (Morrison)? Or that the best American white heavyweight of the past ten years, Joe Mesi, was stopped from fighting when he was about to go for a title, because of supposed brain damage, which has since been found to be not serious after all? Something rotten is going on, but you feel I shouldn't post about it because "it gets old after awhile".

If ALL white men had the courage to stand up for themselves and for their people, there would be no caste system in sports.

Think about this: there was a WBO light heavyweight title fight in Germany today. I watched it on Sopcast, and it was clearly a fairly wide decision win for the white guy Zsolt Erdei over the mixed race fighter, Tito Mendoza. The two gentile judges had it 116-112 and 117-111 for Erdei, scores that made sense. But the Jewish judge Glenn Hirch scored the fight a ridiculous 111-117 for Mendoza!! If there would have been two Jewish judges, Erdei would have lost his title.

Good grief. I saw the results of that fight and it was the first time I saw a split decision with such a wide disparity. I was wondering what the hell that was about.

 

[Guest]

" White athletes are discriminated against
because of a stereotype- propagated primarily by White gentiles like
Fischer Deberry, Paul Hornung, Jimmy the Greek, etc.- that we're
athletically inferior to blacks. There ya go. No Jew-bashing necessary."


Jimmy the Greek? Say what? he was instantly fired and blacklisted almost twenty years ago for daring to contradict the official party line and mentioning that American Negroes had been selected and bred for physical strength, even though he did it in the context of saying that they were superior athletes for that reason.

Just look up WHO CONTROLS THE MEDIA - and the bought and paid for politicians and the financial system.



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Edited by: werewolf

 

[JD074]

Jimmy the Greek? Say what? he was instantly fired and blacklisted almost twenty years ago for daring to contradict the official party line and mentioning that American Negroes had been selected and bred for physical strength, even though he did it in the context of saying that they were superior athletes for that reason.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to what we're talking about. Are you saying that people didn't want him to admit that blacks are athletically superior?

Just look up WHO CONTROLS THE MEDIA - and the bought and paid for politicians and the financial system.ww

I don't need to. I've read all that stuff. This site is about SPORTS. Can't you go to Stormfront to talk about Jews?

 

[Charles Martel]

JD074, I think it's okay to mention Jews and Jewish prejudice against white men here, as long as it relates to boxing. Jimmy the Greek and the others you mentioned worked for Jewish bosses, and that's why they sounded so biases against white athletes.

When I mentioned I wish all white men would stand up for themselves and their race, I was referring to your fearfulness in mentioning the anti-white influence of Jews in sports, as judges (Lederman in Pavlik's last fight, Hirch in Erdei's weekend fight, etc.) as broadcasters (Cosell, Kellerman, Atlas, etc.) as media barons, and so on. It's not a "conspiracy" as such, it's their deep-rooted fear and hatred of white gentiles, and an ancient Talmudic religious belief that we "goyim" are subhuman (the word "goyim" also means "animals on two legs" or "cattle").

That being said, I do agree that Werewolf's frequently using the word "cannibal" and implying that black people are not human (Platov thread) is going too far, and is perhaps not good for this website. And since there are at least 100 other websites with forums where he can freely discuss the overall Jewish control of the media and their powerful lobby (such as crescentandcross.com and wakeupfromyourslumber.com), we should focus on boxing here.

 

[Guest]

I do agree that Werewolf's frequently using the word "cannibal" and implying that black people are not human...


___________________


Hey, I'm a fair guy. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I called them semi-human. I thought they'd take that as a compliment.



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[Guest]

werewolf wrote:

<table bgcolor="#999999" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<t><tr>
<td><table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%">
<t><tr>
<td ="text">Jimmy
the Greek? Say what? he was instantly fired and blacklisted almost
twenty years ago for daring to contradict the official party line and
mentioning that American Negroes had been selected and bred for
physical strength, even though he did it in the context of saying that
they were superior athletes for that reason.</td>
</tr>
</t></table></td>
</tr>
</t></table>





I'm not sure what your point is in relation to what we're talking
about. Are you saying that people didn't want him to admit that blacks
are athletically superior?


____________________________________________________________ ____


What's my point? What's YOUR point? You're the one who brought up (the blacklisted) late Jimmy The Greek. You wrote:

"Occam's razor. White athletes are discriminated against
because of a stereotype- propagated primarily by White gentiles like
Fischer Deberry, Paul Hornung, Jimmy the Greek, etc.- that we're
athletically inferior to blacks. There ya go. No Jew-bashing necessary.
"

Occam's razor defintion: "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best.", so what's that gobbledy******* of yours supposed to mean? White athletes are discriminated against because of Jimmy The Greek and Roger Hornung, huh? Gimme a f'ing break!






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