The GOAT White of all time? please!

[registered1]

No one gets it.





not in the mma forum nor in the boxing forum.


here's your answer.


[url]http://videos.caught-on-video.com/Player.aspx?fileid=9996B05 F-B04B-410C-9515-8A724E2BB15C[/url]


He's not the best "white" HW of all time... He's the best HW , period.


and no, he's not american. But you guys are missing the picture. He's a living legend. We're in 2006 , and no one even realises how intelligent, different, tactical,strong, multi dimensional , complete..How superior this guy is, when compared to every HW.


A guy like this? Instant takedown...and bye bye... No reach advantage....No sweet science (cause it's useless on the ground) , no " fly like a butterfly and sting like a bee" or any of that sh*t...which only works if you're forced to only use your punches & nothing else.


And the ufc is pure american propaganda. don't be fooled by the current LHW and HW fighters of the ufc , they would get murdered , even by innexperienced top boxers (black or white). They do have their good share of real talents in the lower divisions (such as Hughes, St Pierre , Penn, Anderson Silva).


the so called champ "chuck liddell" was owned by a black athlete (quinton jackson)and treated like a "can" in japan back in 2003. Liddell is extremely one dimensional. he had his good share of surprisingly great victories ,sobral, ortiz, couture, randleman (almost was a fluke) ,Overeem (was lucky that his opponent had no stamina), Metzger..... But a guy like this , is a false hope for the fans.


The very same fighter wouldn't last long in a fighting grand prix and would be exposed by the more versatile elites such as Rogerio Nogueira & ricardo aronafor example..and a bunch of others too actually which I won't bother to mention here..


Tim Sylvia? Arlovski?..In japan, they'd be concidered like D level fighters at best.. If you're desperate to root for a white american at least, pick Josh Barnett or something. or hell, even ufc's Jeff Monson.


But if we're talking about the real deal? look no further.


He's a beast.
<LI>Russian Combat Sambo Champion (Moscow championship, 2002)
<LI>World Combat Sambo Champion (heavyweight division) (Saloniki, Greece, 2002)
<LI>World Combat Sambo Champion (absolute division) (Panama, 2002)
<LI>World Combat Sambo Champion (heavyweight division) (Prague, Czech Republic, 2005)</LI>


Moscow International Tournament 100 kg weight 3rd place


A-Tournament Sofia 100 kg weight 3rd place


Dutch Grand Prix Rotterdam 100 kg weight - 7th place


Russian Championships Kstovo (absolute division) 3rd place
<UL last="null">
<LI>Rings King of Kings Heavyweight Tournament Champion (2001)
<LI>Rings World Absolute Class Tournament Champion (2001)
<LI>PRIDE Heavyweight Champion (3/16/2003-present)
<LI>PRIDE Heavyweight Grand Prix Tournament Champion (2004) </LI>[/list]


(current HW champ and concidered to be the best ever in mixed martial arts)

 

[White Shogun]

I don't know who you are, registered1, but I doubt you will find anyone on this forum who will argue with you against the greatness pf Fedor Emilianenko.

However, it would have been nice had you posted about Fedor without having to disparage Liddell, and in roundabout fashion, Couture, and Metzger. After all, if Liddell is a nobody and he beat Couture, Metzger, Overeem, and Randleman, what does that make them? And why do you consider Liddell's wins over the latter two as flukes yet are not willing to say the same about Jackson's win over Chuck?

If you spend some time browsing the forum, you will find very little interest here in rooting for a fighter simply because he is American. White, yes, but American? No. Personally, I think Josh Barnett has a great chance to win the Pride OWGP, but I'm not rooting for him because he is American. I root for him because he is white. But then again, so is Cro-cop (whom you failed to mention in your post), and Nog and Silva are Hispanic/Brazilian.

I don't know how you came to post here at CF, but if you decide to stay, check out the mixed martial arts section of the forum. We have some good threads going around fight time each month.

 

[registered1]

I'll tell you something.


Couture, metzger , what are they in all of this? bashing liddell doesn't tarnish these guys you know why? Because boxing fans as much as Kickboxing and mma fans alike know that "styles make fights". Besides, Couture lost vs liddell but the guy was way, out of his prime.


It's like celebrating McBride's victory over tyson. The guy is done...past prime... liddell's victory over a past prime couture wasn't as significant as couture owning liddell the first time around...


Btw, I'm not even mentioning Mirko crocop cause..Well...cause it's pretty obvious..(to most fans at least...) He's a top 3 HW...


the point is... I'll usually root for white fighters. But I'm not living in denial either..And when something is wrong or when a fighter (of any racial background) is more skilled. I'll admit it.


I respect Gomi (japanese fighter) as well as Kid Yamamoto (P4P one of the best , not counting emelianenko).


And even though , kevin randleman is an inconsistent fighter, I realise that (fluke or not) He defeated Mirko once (yeah, mirko won the rematch). and that he's an incredible athlete and wrestler and has victories over such names as Ninja Rua, Rentato Sobral too.


I respect Yoshida. (judo legend).


The reason why I'm not going easy on Liddell is because the guy is too one dimensional and the only reason why he's the current LHW champ of the ufc is because he had to deal with a past prime couture, a physically weaker Jeremy Horn and that's it.. he's not dealing with what pride fc has to offer...anyway, We'll see what happens vs Sobral.


I know that the odds of winning are on liddell's side but you never know. And it's a shame because sobral is without a doubt,a more rounded fighter. But Liddell's sprawl generally saves his ass.


Liddell's technic consists of throwing haymakers and avoiding the ground like the plague and that's pure BS because if it only takes a good chin and a haymaker to and some basic wrestling defense to own the competition... well, it certainly gives a negative image on the credibility of this sport...


I'll root for Real mmaers not "boxing" wannabes. i'm rooting for the guy who can sub, wrestle, defend and attack on the ground, use his kicks, his overall knowledge to annihilate his opponent.


mma is like a chess game. In which only the smartest , well rounded will survive. it demands all sorts of technics , from kickboxing, judo, sambo,bjj,wrestling...Liddell is the anti-mma.


When I'm watching this guy, I'm wondering what Wladimir , Brewster, Lyakhovich, Povetkin ,Sultan , Chagaev , Brock and hell even that fat ass piece of sh*t Toney would do witha good sprawl and some basics...


MMA should be dominated by the most complete athletes. Crocop used to use liddell's technic years ago (when he was still green). Now, he's a totally changed fighter and because of his persistance , He managed to stay on top of the food chain. (most kickboxers don't last long).


I wish Couture was still active and in his prime...and younger.. then it woulda been a different story... but alas..


Guys like Matt Hughes &amp; George s Pierre ARE giving a positive image of this sport!


Liddell? His days are numbered. Wait till Pride fc arrives in Vegas.


I don't like MMA because it's dominated by whites. because that's not entirely true. I like it because , Like soccer. it's a very international sport in which all races are fighting on equal ground. That's the beauty of it.


it gives the opportunityfor tons of different styles of fighters, (judokas, bjj experts, sambo fighters, muay thai etc...) to dominate while using their own specialtiesEdited by: registered1

 

[White Shogun]

I'm not even mentioning Mirko crocop cause..Well...cause it's pretty obvious..(to most fans at least...) He's a top 3 HW...

You don't mention Crocop because its pretty obvious he is a top three HW.. but you'll write an entire post about the heretofore anonymous Fedor Emilianenko?

I respect Gomi (japanese fighter) as well as Kid Yamamoto...I respect Yoshida

You left out Sakuraba, Chonan, Sakurai.. and don't forget Wanderlai Silva, Minotauro, etc...there are plenty of fighters of white, Japanese, and Brazilian descent who are worthy of respect. A Japanese or Brazilian win over the uber-black athlete is almost as good as a win by a white fighter.

..BS because if it only takes a good chin and a haymaker to and some basic wrestling defense to own the competition... well, it certainly gives a negative image on the credibility of this sport...

Sounds like a great description of Randleman and Quinton Jackson's technique. I prefer a good jiu-jitsu game to a standup brawl myself, but that's just me.

I don't like MMA because it's dominated by whites. because that's not entirely true.

Actually, it is dominated by whites. Compare MMA to the NBA, NFL, et al.

I like it because , Like soccer. it's a very international sport in which all races are fighting on equal ground. That's the beauty of it.

Good for you!

We know you're not one of those hated racists who would root for someone because of their skin color or nationality! Like all the Mexican fans who cheer for De La Hoya and Chavez, the Puerto Ricans who root for Trinidad, and the blacks who root for idiots like James Toney, because, well...

regsitered1, do you see anything in what you've written that could be seen as a double standard for white and black fighters? I'm asking you, because I see it. You imply that Randleman and Jackson are good because they beat Cro-cop and Liddell, with little more than gnp and striking. Yet, you dislike Liddell for the same reason. You'll describe Liddell's wins over Randleman and Overeem as somewhat of a fluke, but credit Randleman and Rampage for their victories over good white HW without mentioning the word 'fluke.'

You said:

But I'm not living in denial either..And when something is wrong or when a fighter (of any racial background) is more skilled. I'll admit it.

well, its okay to admit that a black fighter may not be that skilled or good, either, and in fact, might be hyped and praised a little too much simply because of his skin color. You know as well as I that there is a prevailing stereotype that blacks are superior to whites athletically, and most certainly are tougher and better fighters. Like you, I appreciate the fact that MMA puts everyone on equal footing, but I do worry that there will be some type of favoritism eventually shown to blacks when some network ambulance chaser discovers there aren't that many of them fighting on the teevee.

Take the chip off your shoulder and stay awhile. You might find that not all opinions here are the same,and you might even agree with some of what you find.

 

[Triad]

Besides, Couture lost  vs liddell but the guy was way, out of his prime...The reason why I'm not going easy on Liddell is because the guy is too one dimensional ...
Liddell's technic consists of throwing haymakers and avoiding the ground like the plague and that's pure BS because
mma is like a chess game. In which only the smartest , well rounded will survive. it demands all sorts of technics , from kickboxing, judo, sambo,bjj,wrestling...
MMA should be dominated by the most complete athletes.

So because you don't like his style Chuck Liddell isn't an upper level MMA fighter? So Couture went over the hill in the 2 1/2 years between their first and second fights? There's a 6 year age difference between Liddell and Couture, not a huge advantage.

Fortunately, there are plenty of fans who do appreciate Liddell's style because he's the top American draw in the sport. As for Barnett or Pride fighting in general -steroids are acceptable there.

Liddell career record 18-3, 11KO's, 1 submission; to date steroid free; has convincingly avenged 2 of his 3 losses and taken on all comers into his late 30's. His technique is LANDING haymakers, he knocks world class competition out with his hands and feet consistently. And avoiding takedowns in MMA is a skill. His style is largely reponsible for the popularity of MMA in the US over the last few years.

 

[Poacher]

Hey, I forgot, how'd that Cro-Cop/ Bob Sapp fight turn out?