Secession?

Jimmy Chitwood

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
8,975
Location
Arkansas
i know very little about this topic, but i've been hearing a growing number of folks talking about it. several states appear to be considering it... i'd like to hear what my fellow CFers think about this issue.

Firestorm Brewing between U.S. States and Federal Government
the meat of the article:
Could this be an ominous shadow drawing on the end of the United States of America? For years the Federal Government has presumed to be the all-powerful force governing our country, but it just could be that the Federal Government only exists at the pleasure of the state governments and the citizens thereof. States declaring sovereignty sounds like an act of secession and revolution. However the federal government can apparently be dissolved and another one formed anew at the discretion of the states. The existing Federal government may not leave willingly like so many European governments that are replaced routinely and it may engage a military effort with our own soldiers or the likes of a Black Water illegal military invasion to retain total control over us.

United States Federal Government laws are often in violation of the Tenth Amendment, which is perturbing, these events. This is predicated on an earlier provision of the Articles of Confederation, which states that, "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation [now Federation] expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled."

A growing number of states are declaring their sovereignty afforded under the U S Constitution's Tenth Amendment however the conventional news media are not telling you about what is happening. The State of Washington on Wednesday - 11 February 2009 and most recently, New Hampshire [2009], Montana [2009], Hawaii [2009], Michigan [2009], Missouri [2009], Arizona [2008], Oklahoma [2008], Georgia [1996], and California [1994] all of which have introduced bills and resolutions declaring and reaffirming their sovereignty. Some other states have done this in the past but then let the issue go. Additionally, the states of Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are considering similar measures. More well may follow, such as Wyoming and Mississippi.

The Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791 and states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Historically, this was done to reassert the assignment of the remaining rights to the states and the people of our country if they were not specifically delegated by our Constitution to the United States Government. Further, Amendment Nine on the Construction of the Constitution, Ratified on 15 December 1791 states, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

The Arizona State Legislature is currently formulating a bill that declares their state sovereignty. Their bill further asserts their state's right during martial law to call back servicemen to protect Arizona state, "...if the President or any other federal entity attempts to institute martial law or its equivalent without an official declaration in one or more of the states without the consent of that state ..." There is more near the end of this article.

A lot of this recent activity has come about due to the reckless demise of the banking system now and also in memory of the past during the great depression that fomented during 1929. There is a Russian academic, Igor Panarin who recently predicted that the United States would break apart into about six separate regions by 2010. Predictions of similar persuasion have been made before, rather they are right or not some big problems may soon ensue.

Much of the presidential character of the cabinet assembled by President Obama is representative of that of the previous administration. Obama perhaps is keeping the Adage, "keep your friends close and keep your enemies even closer." A disrespect for our so-called leaders is met from our so-called leaders disrespect for us the citizens of our country. Should this be the case yet again, this would establish further reason for the states course of recent action

It may seem ironic that as we have a President from the land of Lincoln, and one who admires Lincoln, that another civil war could be brewing ...

Texas Representatives introduce resolution asserting Sovereignty
A number of proposals from previous administrations and some now pending from the present administration and from congress may further violate the Constitution of the United States; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the 81st Legislature of the State of Texas hereby claim sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the Constitution of the United States...

H.C.R. 50 serves "as notice and demand to the federal government, as our agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers" and that "all compulsory federal legislation that directs states to comply under threat of civil or criminal penalties or sanctions or that requires states to pass legislation or lose federal funding be prohibited or repealed."

...

Texas joins Washington, New Hampshire, Arizona, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, California, and Georgia, states that have all introduced bills and resolutions declaring sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment. Colorado, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Alaska, Kansas, Alabama, Nevada, Maine, and Illinois are also considering such measures.

"While the ramifications of these resolutions are still uncertain, one thing is clear," writes Barbara Minton. "People are sick and tired of the federal government's usurpation of power not granted to it by the Constitution. They have had enough of fear based economic terrorism and underhanded promotion of policies and procedures that bypass public scrutiny and the will of the people."

...
 

Menelik

Mentor
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
1,175
Location
Georgia
Good points but I don't see the union dissolving any time soon.
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,193
Location
Pennsylvania
The fact that it is being widely discussed now for the first time is an ominous sign, at least from the point of view of those who believe in an all-powerful Washington, D.C. Prior to a year ago, all the serious secessionists in this country could fit together in a small-sized meeting room. Now talk ofsecession is not only all over the Internet and talk radio, some 20 states have introduced pro-state sovereignty, anti-central government legislation of one type or another. A NWOby Poll a few months ago found some 20 percent of respondents agreeing with the right of the states to secede. Over half said the political system in this country is broken. Cutting Washington down to size, or withdrawing from it altogether and returning control of our lives to far more manageable scales, is being seen more and more every day as the only way out of this mess.


Here's another interesting article. I find these almost every day.


http://suicideofthewest.com/?p=803


Note: the poll mentioned above is z o g b y (filtered out when spelled without spaces)Edited by: Don Wassall
 

Europe

Mentor
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,642
Thomas Naylor of the Second Vermont Republic wrote an essay called "Minority STates not Minority Rights", but I can't find it on their website anymore. It's a good site if you haven't seen it yet. George Kennan even is quoted on the site.
 

Colonel_Reb

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
13,987
Location
The Deep South
Well, the U.S. government never tried Jefferson Davis. I think the reason being is that if they had, the Constitutionality of secession would have been proven andLincoln'swar would have been exposed.
 

Europe

Mentor
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,642
Isn't the reason they added an amendment stating that states couldn't secede is because they thought that it was legal when the South did it?
 

Don Wassall

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
31,193
Location
Pennsylvania
Europe said:
Isn't the reason they added an amendment stating that states couldn't secede is because they thought that it was legal when the South did it?


None of the amendmentsdeal withsecession. From the establishment's viewpoint, the way the War Between the States played out codified theprinciple that no region or state may ever leave the union.


Even individuals and groups secede at their own risk, as the Weaver family in remote Idaho and the Branch Davidians in Waco found out in aterminal way.
 

Europe

Mentor
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,642
Don Wassall said:
Europe said:
Isn't the reason they added an amendment stating that states couldn't secede is because they thought that it was legal when the South did it?


None of the amendments deal with secession.  From the establishment's viewpoint, the way the War Between the States played out codified the principle that no region or state may ever leave the union.


Even individuals and groups secede at their own risk, as the Weaver family in remote Idaho and the Branch Davidians in Waco found out in a terminal way.

Thanks for the clarification. I went back and read the essay from Naylor and the constitution doesn't say you can't, so that's where I was confused. Don't the originalists like Justice Scalia believe that if the constitution doesn't prohibit or authorize something then the federal gov't has no say in a matter? So therefore ,states have a right to secede? I'd like to ask that question to Scalia?
 

DixieDestroyer

Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
9,464
Location
Dixieland
The Libertarian based Free State Project (FSP) has some similarity to this discussion/subject. The Free State Project (FSP) is a plan to have 20,000 individuals move to a single state in the United States, with the intent of influencing local politics and policy in an effort to reduce the size and scope of government at the local, state, and federal levels. In 2003, the group chose New Hampshire, known for its "Live Free or Die" motto and absence of a state income tax and state sales tax, as its target.

FSP

***Interesting enough, WWE pro wrestler "Kane" (Glen Jacobs) is a staunch Libertarian involved in the FSP movement (& supported Ron Paul). Here's his poltical blog...

Adventures of American Citizen X
 
Top