Racist player replacement

[White Shogun]

The Brunell-Campbell and Leftwich-Gerrard conversations have generated some interesting viewpoints, so I thought I'd devote a separate thread to some of the other situations in the league and get the board's opinion. I will list some teams in which I believe there are racial dynamics in play at the quarterback position.

Your thoughts?

Atlanta Falcons
I believe Schaub is a better quarterback and should replace Vick immediately. But it isn't going to happen.

Tennessee Titans
The Titans screwed Billy Volek. Period. Their situation was almost exactly like the Redskins, but they jettisoned their QB in waiting for a rookie, and basically gave up on the season before it even started. Part of the reason for this is I do not believe the Titans wanted to bench McNair (black) for Volek (white), because they'd be accused of racism. Well, guess what - picking up Young didn't spare them those charges, did it? I can't imagine how bad it would have been had they stuck with Volek!

Baltimore Ravens
They had a young quarterback of the future in Kyle Boller, who, despite some struggles, appeared to have turned it around at the end of last season. But instead of seeing what he could do, they dump him for the aging veteran, Steve McNair. How much longer is McNair going to play? Does anyone really believe that McNair is responsible for the Ravens 7-2 start, and not the Raven's resurgent defense?

Jacksonville Jaguars
I don't believe the Jags would have benched Leftwich for Gerrard if Gerrard was white.

Miami Dolphins
If Culpepper hadn't been injured, what are the odds Joey Harrington would have seen the field, despite Culpepper's atrocious play the first few games of the season?

Seattle Seahawks
There isn't a quarterback controversy in Seattle (yet.) But how many teams send their backup quarterbacks back to school to learn how to read a playbook?

Philadelphia Eagles
Fooled ya. There is no controversy in Philadelphia and there shouldn't be.

New Orleans Saints
Just wanted to point out how well the Saints are playing without Aaron Brooks.

 

[Guest]

Your thoughts?

Atlanta Falcons
I believe Schaub is a better quarterback and should replace Vick immediately. But it isn't going to happen.

There are MANY fans who would agree with this.

it will not happen anytime soon, though, because Vick is worth tens of millions of dollars. We know he isn't that great of a QB, but the fact is he's gonna be around for a while to come.

Schaub should best seek another team.

Tennessee Titans
The Titans screwed Billy Volek. Period. Their situation was almost exactly like the Redskins, but they jettisoned their QB in waiting for a rookie, and basically gave up on the season before it even started. Part of the reason for this is I do not believe the Titans wanted to bench McNair (black) for Volek (white), because they'd be accused of racism. Well, guess what - picking up Young didn't spare them those charges, did it? I can't imagine how bad it would have been had they stuck with Volek!

The reason is simply the fact that they wanted a new, young QB to build the franchise around. It was either Leinart or Young. They could not simply bass up on all of those talented passers who could potentially be franchise players.

With Volek, I doubt things would have been too terrible, but I suppose the Titans simply wanted a QB of the future to develope.
It's the same reason the Cards drafted Leinart with Warner still around, or the reason the Broncos picked Cutler while Plummer was still there.

It's just how the league seems to operate.

Baltimore Ravens
They had a young quarterback of the future in Kyle Boller, who, despite some struggles, appeared to have turned it around at the end of last season. But instead of seeing what he could do, they dump him for the aging veteran, Steve McNair. How much longer is McNair going to play? Does anyone really believe that McNair is responsible for the Ravens 7-2 start, and not the Raven's resurgent defense?

Alright, we just have to be honest here: Kyle Boller was not that great. He isn't still young anymore. He had 3 entire years to develope as a player, and he was given every chance. He was just bad, and he could not lead the team to wins.
He finished 2005 with 11 TDs and 12 ints.
They've all seen what he could do. And it wasn't that much.

If that's racism, then it was also racist for the Lions to bring in Kitna and cut Harrington who had been playing poorly.

McNair came in, and so far, he's been leading this team to wins. This is something Boller, for whatever reason, could not do. His leadership has, for whateer reason, gotten this team a winning record.

It's not a racial issue. The same thing could have happened if, say, another old veteran had been released and brought in. McNair leads his team well, andso they win.
Boller couldn't do that. Why, I don't know.

Jacksonville Jaguars
I don't believe the Jags would have benched Leftwich for Gerrard if Gerrard was white.

Well, that's something we'll never know. But I do know that the main reason Leftwich was benched was because gerrard is a running QB, and running QBs supposedly bring more out of this offense.

It was a stupid decision anyway. People do not give leftwich nearly enough credit.

Miami Dolphins
If Culpepper hadn't been injured, what are the odds Joey Harrington would have seen the field, despite Culpepper's atrocious play the first few games of the season?

Culpepper was supposed to be a franchise QB, and they invested a ton of cash into him.

Harrington was a guy who had had a VERY bad time in Detroit and was simply reviving his career.
That's the reason. People weren't going to bench the supposed franchise for a QB who is widely considered a bust.

However, in any case, it happened, and it's turned out somehwat ok for the Phins as Joey is leading them to a couple of good wins.

Seattle Seahawks
There isn't a quarterback controversy in Seattle (yet.) But how many teams send their backup quarterbacks back to school to learn how to read a playbook?

Lol, yeah, that was amazing.

Personally, I'm just rooting for Gibran Hamdan over there. He's been in camp with them for like 3 straight years, and he only just earned a roster spot like 4 weeks ago with them.
I want to see Seneca moved so he can somehow make the team, but unless Seneca starts playing really badly, it won't happen.

Philadelphia Eagles
Fooled ya. There is no controversy in Philadelphia and there shouldn't be.

Indeed.

New Orleans Saints
Just wanted to point out how well the Saints are playing without Aaron Brooks.

Brooks is really just not that great. Brees is a MASSIVE upgrade, and it's paying dividends for them now.

 

[Jimmy Chitwood]

The reason is simply the fact that they wanted a new, young QB to build the franchise around. It was either Leinart or Young. They could not simply bass up on all of those talented passers who could potentially be franchise players.

With Volek, I doubt things would have been too terrible, but I suppose the Titans simply wanted a QB of the future to develope.
It's the same reason the Cards drafted Leinart with Warner still around, or the reason the Broncos picked Cutler while Plummer was still there.

It's just how the league seems to operate.

yes, that's how the league operates, but you'll notice that A)Leinart only started playing when Warner couldn't hack it; B) Cutler is on the sidelines holding a clipboard despite his high draft status; and C)Volek was a young QB already on the roster "that they could build the franchise around."

Volek had already proven himself to be a top-tier QB. he has the highest passing total of any NFL QB over his first 10 games EVER. why would you want to get rid of that kind of player for an unproven rookie? well, according to the Titans coaches it was because they didn't want a QB controversy if Volek played well! WTF?!? so instead of having a proven but young passer that could give them a chance to make a playoff run, they play an unproven rookie and count this season as a "learning experience... hopefully the Titans fans will learn as well, and not spend the several hundred bucks on tickets again next year for a proven loser.

Alright, we just have to be honest here: Kyle Boller was not that great. He isn't still young anymore. He had 3 entire years to develope as a player, and he was given every chance. He was just bad, and he could not lead the team to wins.
He finished 2005 with 11 TDs and 12 ints.
They've all seen what he could do. And it wasn't that much.

McNair came in, and so far, he's been leading this team to wins. This is something Boller, for whatever reason, could not do. His leadership has, for whateer reason, gotten this team a winning record.

It's not a racial issue. The same thing could have happened if, say, another old veteran had been released and brought in. McNair leads his team well, andso they win.
Boller couldn't do that. Why, I don't know.

First of all, Boller's numbers then were better than Err McNair's are now, so giving mcnair credit for winning is kinda silly. the Ravens defense and special teams are what's winning games in Baltimore, not mcnair's fabled "leadership" skills.

if we're looking at just numbers, mcnair can't hold a candle to Brunell, either. furthermore, byron leftwich has only thrown fewer than 10 INTs once in his 3 full seasons and is averaging 15 TDs and 10 INTs over the same period, but he's still supposed to be "developing" and "is on track to become a star." how does that work?

Culpepper was supposed to be a franchise QB, and they invested a ton of cash into him.

Harrington was a guy who had had a VERY bad time in Detroit and was simply reviving his career.
That's the reason. People weren't going to bench the supposed franchise for a QB who is widely considered a bust.

However, in any case, it happened, and it's turned out somehwat ok for the Phins as Joey is leading them to a couple of good wins.

please explain why Fumblepepper was the "franchise." he had ONE good year, and other than that has sucked harder than one of those Oreck vacuums. the ONLY reason he is hyped so much is because he's a black QB. why else would the Dullphins be dumb enough to spend that kind of money on such a bum?

it has turned out fairly well, despite the ineffectiveness of Miami's all-black offensive line which resulted in a lot of poor offensive performance. fortunately, Welker is playing well for them or they wouldn't have any wins.

Personally, I'm just rooting for Gibran Hamdan over there.

see, this is what we talk about a lot on here. blacks routinely and without hesitation cheer for other blacks. but i, as a white man, am supposed to be somehow enlightened and "not see color" or some crap. me rooting for guys who look like me is evil but blacks cheering on a black speed skater or quarter back or whatever is somehow okay? can you say "double standard" class?

btw, Hamdan did look awfully good in NFLEurope this summer before he got hurt.

New Orleans Saints
Just wanted to point out how well the Saints are playing without Aaron Brooks.

Brooks is really just not that great. Brees is a MASSIVE upgrade, and it's paying dividends for them now.

aaron brooks is possibly the worst QB ever to routinely, and repeatedly be inserted as a starter. at best, he should be an emergency third stringer because of his long tenure in the league. this dude is completely awful, and if talent were truly all that matters he would NEVER had a chance in the NFL.

 

[Guest]

yes, that's how the league operates, but you'll notice that A)Leinart only started playing when Warner couldn't hack it; B) Cutler is on the sidelines holding a clipboard despite his high draft status; and C)Volek was a young QB already on the roster "that they could build the franchise around."

Volek had already proven himself to be a top-tier QB. he has the highest passing total of any NFL QB over his first 10 games EVER. why would you want to get rid of that kind of player for an unproven rookie? well, according to the Titans coaches it was because they didn't want a QB controversy if Volek played well! WTF?!? so instead of having a proven but young passer that could give them a chance to make a playoff run, they play an unproven rookie and count this season as a "learning experience...

Well, it has happened before(brees and rivers in Diego, etc) but in any case, it may seem unfair that Volek was shipped off.
However, the league has done this before, not only to white QBs.

Why did the Chargers ship Drew Brees off and begin to play a guy who'd barely played prior to that time(Rivers)?
In any case, Volek is a great QB, and i do hope he gets another starting job someplace, but I just think this type of thing happens to QBs regardless of race.
Remember, Young replaced not only Volek, but McNair as well.
Why draft Regie Bush when you alredy have a 1000 yard rusher(McCallister)? We all know McCallister will need to be traded soon enough.

Willis McGahee was drafted in 2003. That was the same year that Travis Henry had 1300 yards rushing. Next thing we know, Travis is being shipped off.

What's up with that?

When you've got a first round draft pick, they just tend to take over eventually. It never seems fair(like the way Brunell was benched, or when Mcnair was simply shipped off after the draft when Young came) but it just seems to be how the league operates.

First of all, Boller's numbers then were better than Err McNair's are now, so giving mcnair credit for winning is kinda silly. the Ravens defense and special teams are what's winning games in Baltimore, not mcnair's fabled "leadership" skills.

Boller finished his season with 11 tds and 12 ints, and a 58% completion percentage.
McNair right now at the halfway point has 10 tds, 9 ints, and a 60% completion percentage.

His QB rating is 5 points higher than Bollers right now.

Their stats are somewhat similar. Steve is playing with almost the smae offense(same wideouts, same tight end in heap, same RB, same O line)
The defense has not changed significantly, except for the main fact that they have a rookie safety out there in place of depth.

These teams aren't varying.

Steve is winning because he's just a better leader. It's that simple. And it isn't that hard to believe given the fact that Steve is a veteran, and Kyle has never had a really good season.

if we're looking at just numbers, mcnair can't hold a candle to Brunell, either.

Probably not, no.

However, for some weird reason, he wins with his team. Boller couldn't do it with the same squad, and Brunell hasn't been able to do it this year with his.

furthermore, byron leftwich has only thrown fewer than 10 INTs once in his 3 full seasons and is averaging 15 TDs and 10 INTs over the same period, but he's still supposed to be "developing" and "is on track to become a star." how does that work?

Leftwich in 2005 had 15 TDs, and 5 INTs in just 11 games. he had the 9th best passer rating in the NFL. He had one of the better TD:INT ratios in the league.

That's why people were saying he could be a star, and he can.

But there's no point arguing about this, since many of these fans as well as much of the coaching staff are now on the Garrard bandwagon. Leftwich is probably going to get screwed now in Jacksonville because he isn't "mobile" enough.

Never mind that he can throw efficiently, is a great leader and a true warrior in terms of toughness.

please explain why Fumblepepper was the "franchise." he had ONE good year, and other than that has sucked harder than one of those Oreck vacuums. the ONLY reason he is hyped so much is because he's a black QB. why else would the Dullphins be dumb enough to spend that kind of money on such a bum?

He had 3 good seasons: 2000, 2003 and 2004.

Right now, he's riding off of the momentum from those good years. I'm saying that they saw him as a franchise QB, while Joey, who has not had as many good years at all, was simply seen as a bust trying to revive his career.

The reason he's hyped so much is because he had one really good year(2004), and a couple of other decent ones. He was hyped just as much as Drew Bledsoe was when he showed up in Dallas.
In any case, it hasn't all panned out yet, and we don't know if it will.

it has turned out fairly well, despite the ineffectiveness of Miami's all-black offensive line which resulted in a lot of poor offensive performance. fortunately, Welker is playing well for them or they wouldn't have any wins.

Do you really have to single them out simply because they are black?

see, this is what we talk about a lot on here. blacks routinely and without hesitation cheer for other blacks. but i, as a white man, am supposed to be somehow enlightened and "not see color" or some crap. me rooting for guys who look like me is evil but blacks cheering on a black speed skater or quarter back or whatever is somehow okay? can you say "double standard" class?

You'd have a point, dude...if Gibran Hamdan was black. He isn't, however, so now you're just getting angry for nothing

But in any case, who said that there were not white QBs who i root for? I root for white athletes as much as the next guy. QBs I'm rooting for now include: Jason Fife, Drew olson, Corey Bramlet, Matt Baker, and Quinton Porter.

Just because I don't agree with you on every case of what is racist and what is not does not mean that I have something against white athletes or whatever.

 

[Matt_Bowen_Fan]

Well, it has happened before(brees and rivers in Diego, etc) but in any case, it may seem unfair that Volek was shipped off.
However, the league has done this before, not only to white QBs.

Why did the Chargers ship Drew Brees off and begin to play a guy who'd barely played prior to that time(Rivers)?

Totally different. Brees had an injured shoulder, plus, they had a case where they had two starting quality QBs who were both young, and wanted to play. Brees would have asked for a deal if Rivers had started, and it rarely hurts to let a young QB ride the pine for a year or two.

Why draft Regie Bush when you alredy have a 1000 yard rusher(McCallister)? We all know McCallister will need to be traded soon enough.

He was perhaps the best talent available, but more important in Bush's case, he brought media attention and flash to a downtrodden city. He's not ever going to be an every down back like McAllister is, and N.O. is doing a good job of getting him the ball a lot, but he's in no way a replacement.

Willis McGahee was drafted in 2003. That was the same year that Travis Henry had 1300 yards rushing. Next thing we know, Travis is being shipped off.

What's up with that?

RBs are disposable. Use them up, and get rid of them. Denver does this constantly, and gets great draft picks/trades, etc for theirs. Let someone else pay them, and draft another.

When you've got a first round draft pick, they just tend to take over eventually. It never seems fair(like the way Brunell was benched, or when Mcnair was simply shipped off after the draft when Young came) but it just seems to be how the league operates.

Both of those instances seem quite fair to me.

Boller finished his season with 11 tds and 12 ints, and a 58% completion percentage.
McNair right now at the halfway point has 10 tds, 9 ints, and a 60% completion percentage.

His QB rating is 5 points higher than Bollers right now.

Err McNair and Pro Boller make for an interesting duo. They're both inconsistent, and can be truly atrocious.

Their stats are somewhat similar. Steve is playing with almost the smae offense(same wideouts, same tight end in heap, same RB, same O line)
The defense has not changed significantly, except for the main fact that they have a rookie safety out there in place of depth.

These teams aren't varying.

That defense is much healthier than last season; Reed and Lewis both missed a number of games. 1st rounder Haloti Nagoti(sp) is the real deal, and Lewis beged for some big, run-stuffing tackles in the offseason. No, the D isn't quite the same.

Steve is winning because he's just a better leader. It's that simple. And it isn't that hard to believe given the fact that Steve is a veteran, and Kyle has never had a really good season.

Err McNair doesn't do stupid things like consistently fumble the snap either. I'm not a big Boller guy, but I'm not down on him either. He seems average at best, and those final four games he had, I know one was against the Packers, and I'm fairly sure the others were against teams resting their players or as bad as B-more was last season.

However, for some weird reason, he wins with his team. Boller couldn't do it with the same squad, and Brunell hasn't been able to do it this year with his.

Defense. The Ravens' D forces three and outs, forces turnovers, and puts points on the board. Brunell and the 'Skins O is likely scoring as many or more points than the Ravens' O, but they're not consistent, and the 'Skins D is horrendous. That's the key difference. Also, McNair isn't worried about making mistakes and losing his job to Kyle Boller, but Brunell sure was.

Leftwich in 2005 had 15 TDs, and 5 INTs in just 11 games. he had the 9th best passer rating in the NFL. He had one of the better TD:INT ratios in the league.

That's why people were saying he could be a star, and he can.

Leftwich is a QB that needs better receivers. I wish there was a QB stat for INTs from them going off the WRs hands. Brunell picked up two in a single game last seaosn that way.

But there's no point arguing about this, since many of these fans as well as much of the coaching staff are now on the Garrard bandwagon. Leftwich is probably going to get screwed now in Jacksonville because he isn't "mobile" enough.

Bah. The mobility thing is such a lie. Two of the best O lines in the NFL in the last 20 years proved that. Aikman couldn't run to save his life, and I recall heated, heated arguments about Doug Williams' broke down knees and legs(which, in the informed opinion of the time, was the primary reason to use a black QB).

Do you really have to single them out simply because they are black?

Actually, yes. Look at the best O-lines in the game today, and they are overwhelmingly white. Whites continue to be the best in the trenches, except at left tackle, where the supposed speed of 330lb blacks helps against speed rushers.

I love watching Chris Samuels get beat most weeks.

Just because I don't agree with you on every case of what is racist and what is not does not mean that I have something against white athletes or whatever.

Guilty pleasures, but I pull for Sean Taylor. I even proposed a "Free Sean Taylor Fund" when he was having his legal troubles.

Edited by: Matt_Bowen_Fan

 

[Bart]

Futuregohan:In any case, Volek is a great QB, and i do hope he gets another starting job someplace, but I just think this type of thing happens to QBs regardless of race.
Remember, Young replaced not only Volek, but McNair as well.


Well, it is not entirely correct to say Young also replaced McNair. The Titans had been feuding with McNair and locked him out of their facilities several weeks before drafting Young. It's not like McNair was bumped from his starting position because of the arrival of Young. Only Volek was.

 

[ToughJ.Riggins]

FutureGohan. You can't really compare running back replacements
with QB. An average life span for an NFL running back is
only 4
years because of injury. Plus McCallister has been plagued by
many injuries. I would agree that drafting Young to replace
Mcnair and Volek wasn't racist though . I think Volek has starting
ability but only showed that in limited action. I was disappointed
though since he had quite a repotoire with Drew Bennett. Vince Young
can run but he
will be a better passer than the "Michael Vick's" persay of the NFL, he
was awsome in the Rose Bowl. If
I was going to rank the starting Black QB's for their abilities and career potential</span> I would list it like this:




Good- Top 11 QB's in the league for their tenured career timespan or future potential</span>


Donovon McNabb


Steve McNair


Vince Young- future projection





Average-middle 10-


Daunte Culpepper-1 great 1 pretty good year out of 7


Michael Vick-not a good passer, but has a pretty good winning
percentage. Basically wins games only with his legs. Unlikely to win a
super bowl even with good teamates.


Byron Leftwhich?- injury? benching?





Bad performers: Bottom 11- Aaron Brooks- injured





INC. Jason Cambell...Am I missing any?








Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins