Kraj vs. Fragomeni for WBC title

[Charles Martel]

It was announced today by the WBC that David Haye is giving up his cruiserweight title, and has requested the WBC rank him at heavyweight.

Rudolf Kraj will face Giacobbe Fragomeni for the vacant title.

Haye vacates WBC title



Edited by: JD1986

 

[Guest]

While technically correct per the WBC rankings, that is a pathetic title match.

I wonder what happens to the WBO belt.

 

[Charles Martel]

While technically correct per the WBC rankings, that is a pathetic title match.

Nothing pathetic about it.

Rudolf Kraj (14-0, BoxRec #4 cruiserweight) is a world class fighter - he had an excellent amateur record, and is undefeated as a pro. His last fight was a wide decision win over previously undefeated African-American Matt Godfrey.

Giacobbe Fragomeni, 25-1, is a highly-regarded veteran boxer. His only professional loss was to David Haye.

Edited by: JD1986

 

[Blue Devils]

Kraj-vs-Fragomeni should be a good one. I'd favor Kraj by decision.

 

[Guest]

I always wonder why people/fans get excited about the cruiserweights. To me it is nothing more than a purgatory for fighters who can't make weight(lazy)for Light Heavyweight or fighters that are not big enough to compete at today's heavyweight level.

I if I was Lord King I would do away with it. To me it is just a waste of the fighter's time and people who watch them. The only fighter to rise out of that division was a blown up light heavyweight in Evander Holyfield.I doubt that we will ever see a cruiserweight become Heavyweight Champ. Just another scheme to make money off the fans. But not me.

 

[Blue Devils]

I always wonder why people/fans get excited about the cruiserweights. To me it is nothing more than a purgatory for fighters who can't make weight(lazy)for Light Heavyweight or fighters that are not big enough to compete at today's heavyweight level.

That's true about the weight. Look at Haye if Cruiser was still 190 he would have never been able to make the weight instead bulking up to heavy where he would have been KTFO. One of my favorite fighters of all time was a Cruiser. Vassiliy Jirov. I always thought Jirov benefited from the 190 weight limit. At 190 he had unlimited stamina but whenever he went 200+ he got sluggish. I thought he beat Mesi and Norris. He was beating Moorer before getting caught and the loss to Toney was debatable. Although I'm a bit biased

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wolYEZSwrnQEdited by: shawn1262231

 

[Guest]

S1262231, Jirov proves my point perfectly. He could have ruled at light heavyweight for years, but refused to condition down to 175 lbs. He had no business thinking he could have fairly competed at heavyweight with the likes of Wlad, Lewis and even Moorer.

He could have won that fight with Toney if he had boxed more intelligently towards the end. He did beat Mesi and Norris, just waited to long to pour it on. He wasted his career thinking he could be a heavyweight, Lt Heavy was were it was for him and many others who thought they were big enough for today's heavyweights.

 

[white is right]

I used to think this way. But with the size gap between heavyweight and cruiserweight getting larger, this division is needed more than ever. Also the division has better quality fighters now that the gap has increased. I also agree that jump to heavyweight is so large now that it may be impossible for another cruiserweight to win a heavyweight belt.

 

[Guest]

WIS your right about the size gap, but this division will never attain the notoriety or acclaim that light heavyweight or heavyweight fighters will. It will always remain a "purgatory" way station for fighters trying to figure out how to best win fights, all the while the boxing world passing them by.

These multiple weight divisions ruined boxing in a way by having soo many "champions". Again, if I was Lord King I would decree that boxing go back to the origianal eight divisions to see who really is bad ass!

 

[white is right]

You have a point about the division being a bastard division. But at one time when boxing had the original 8 divisions, the light-heavyweight division had the same problems. Tommy Loughran, Billy Conn, Bob Foster and Micheal Moorer(Moorer skipped the cruiserweight class too) all left the division to try earn bigger purses in the heavyweight division.

 

[Guest]

WIS, what problems, Billy Conn almost beat the great Joe Louis, if he listened to his corner and boxed the last couple of rounds. I suspect Billy came into that fight at 180 lbs. He just got cocky and lost to a better big man.

Roy Jones put 15 lbs on and beat Heavyweight titlist John Ruiz. Good for him. Where is the problem. If light Heavyweights want the glamour and money put on some muscel weight and beat some heavyweights at their game.James Toney thought he could eat baby back ribs three times a day and lost to limited Sam Peter.

He should have stayed at light Heavyweight and made more money there. Forget the cruiser division.

The only problem I see is the lack of discipline from fighters to maintain their weight at Lt Heavy. The only fighter I can remember who had good success at Heavyweight was Michael Moorer and he smartly skipped the 'soozerweights'.

 

[Guest]

Evander Holyfield along with alot of roids is the only cruiser that had great success at Heavyweight division. I think if Evander did not take roids he would not have had the success he acquired.

Without roids Evander would have always been a light Heavyweight.

 

[Charles Martel]

I used to think this way. But with the size gap between heavyweight and cruiserweight getting larger, this division is needed more than ever. Also the division has better quality fighters now that the gap has increased. I also agree that jump to heavyweight is so large now that it may be impossible for another cruiserweight to win a heavyweight belt.

I agree with this.

Back in the days when boxing was the most popular sport in the US, many if not most heavyweights were cruiserweight size. Marciano weighed in the 180s for his title fights, and others such as Jack Sharkey and Jack Dempsey fought at what would be cruiserweight today. Their fights were far more entertaining than many of the current heavyweight fights.

The last pro fight card I attended, the first fight was at cruiserweight, with two white guys, one of them Nick Ring in his first pro match. It was highly entertaining and competitive, and the crowd loved it. The last fight of the night (the heavyweight main event) had a big Nigerian and a defensive-minded American negro. It was terrible, they moved too slowly, and were hardly able to connect. The crowd booed.

I think the cruiserweight division will eventually become one of the most popular divisions in boxing, and feature many of the best fighters. With that wide 25 pound gap (175 to 200) there are many boxers whose ideal weight is cruiserweight.

 

[Guest]

JD1986 I agree with your analysis regarding the cruisers being more entertaining and competitive than most heavyweights today, but the Heavyweight division will always be looked at as the Holy Grail of Boxing. This site even states so. I do not agree with it being the Holy Grail, but the masses do and the media. And with that comes the money, glamour and noteriety, hence the draw to the HW division.

The cruisers have been around almost 30 years. They will never become the most popular division. Those roles are reserved for welter, middle, light heavyweight and heavyweights. Those weights in between are just ways to make more money. I say go back to the 8 divisions and 15 rounds for championships.

If cruisers are so much better, then a cruiser should be able to go up and slain a big heavyweight like Dempsey did against Ferpo(spelling?),Jones over Ruiz or Holyfield beating 'big daddy' Bowe. When boxing added all these unneccassary weights it took some of the luster off the current champions reign.

 

[JD074]

I always wonder why people/fans get excited about the cruiserweights. To me it is nothing more than a purgatory for fighters who can't make weight(lazy)for Light Heavyweight or fighters that are not big enough to compete at today's heavyweight level.

Do you think Adamek is "lazy?"

 

[JD074]

WIS your right about the size gap, but this division will never attain the notoriety or acclaim that light heavyweight or heavyweight fighters will.

And? Why is that such a big deal? All that matters is whether a fight is good or not. If it's entertaining, it's entertaining, if it's not, it's not. There are boring fights in every division, and there are exciting fights in every division.

These multiple weight divisions ruined boxing in a way by having soo many "champions".

Well, another way to reduce the number of champions is to have one champ per division. That would be nice!

 

[JD074]

WIS, what problems, Billy Conn almost beat the great Joe Louis, if he listened to his corner and boxed the last couple of rounds. I suspect Billy came into that fight at 180 lbs. He just got cocky and lost to a better big man.

Roy Jones put 15 lbs on and beat Heavyweight titlist John Ruiz. Good for him. Where is the problem.

The problem is that Louis would be a small HW today. Ruiz is a small HW today. Conn or Jones couldn't beat Wlad, Vitali, or Lewis.

If light Heavyweights want the glamour and money put on some muscel weight and beat some heavyweights at their game.

They can put on muscle, but they can't add three or four inches to their height!

James Toney thought he could eat baby back ribs three times a day and lost to limited Sam Peter.

He should have stayed at light Heavyweight and made more money there. Forget the cruiser division.

Yeah, but he beat Ruiz, too! (Obviously it was changed to a "no contest" because he failed a drug test, but we all know that he would've beat Ruiz regardless.) Toney was just too small for the division.

 

[JD074]

Sorry for the multiple posts, guys. I've only been frequenting CF a couple of times a week (except for particular threads that I've bookmarked,) so I'm a little behind the discussion.

JD1986 I agree with your analysis regarding the cruisers being more entertaining and competitive than most heavyweights today, but the Heavyweight division will always be looked at as the Holy Grail of Boxing. This site even states so. I do not agree with it being the Holy Grail, but the masses do and the media. And with that comes the money, glamour and noteriety, hence the draw to the HW division.

So you think that the Cruiserweight division is more entertaining than the HW division, but you want to get rid of it and force Cruisers to bulk up and fight less entertaining fights because of what the "masses and the media" think?

 

[Guest]

JDO74, I think you have missed my point. I would not force the cruisers to bulk up, just fight at a weight your best at and beat a heavyweight. Boxing doesn't need all of these different weights. Whats next a 'super cruiser or super heavyweight division'.

Like I said before Billy Conn a light heavyweight was on the brink of beating Joe Louis for the real World Heavyweight Championship. He probably went into the ring between 175 and 180 lbs. Louis at the time was between 210 and 215 lbs. Billy did not bulk up he just fought at his ideal weight and came within inches of beating Louis, if he didn't get cocky.

Having the cruiserweights is unneccessary in my opinion. Again where is the problem. Either fight at 175 lbs and win or fight at 175+ and beat a true heavyweight for ultimate glory and recognition. Demesy did it to Farpo, Jones did it, Evander did it, and Toney almost did it with the aid of banned substances.

Lastly, I don't think all cruisers are more entertaining than all Heavyweights. but some are. No one is forced Jones, Evander nor Toney to bulk up. They did it on their own free will. I am sure Ruiz would have been ok with Jones coming in at 175 lbs.

 

[Guest]

Last point, former heavyweight titlist Chris Bryd who fought at the highest levels as a heavyweight with some success is by passing 'no mans land' cruisers to campaign as a light heavyweight now! There are great fights for him there, Joe Calzadge, Roy Jones, Dawson etc. He knows where the money is and the quality of opposition. He appears to be a cool person and knows cruisers are for dreamers, once weres and never will bes.

And just as a preemptive line of defense, I will always root for white fighters in boxing, but will give credit were credit is due. The caste system gets no play between men who have the courage and talent to fight at the highest levels and step into the squared ring!

 

[whiteathlete33]

I cant wait for Adamek vs. Cunningham in the cruiserweight division. I think Adamek has a good shot in the cruiserweight division seeing how he dominated Bell who is a great boxer. I hope Kraj is for real as he really hasnt fought any tough competition.

 

[JD074]

JDO74, I think you have missed my point. I would not force the cruisers to bulk up, just fight at a weight your best at and beat a heavyweight.

But who can do that? Little guys like Byrd, Toney, and Ibragimov can't beat the Klitschko's or Lewis. No way. These guys, in their prime, would be much more entertaining and competitive at Cruiser than HW. Look at Sultan. His last three fights sucked @ss. He's way too conservative. If he were aggressive against Briggs or Wlad, he would've gotten knocked out cold. He'd be so much better at 200. It's a Catch 22. Talented fighters don't want to fight at 200 because it's a weak division, it's a weak division because talented fighters choose not to fight there. Let's see... Haye, Adamek, Macca, Ibragimov, Cunningham, Chambers, Mormeck (if he's still fighting,) Jirov, Huck, perhaps Povetkin, Kraj, Minto, perhaps Mollo... looks good to me!

Boxing doesn't need all of these different weights. Whats next a 'super cruiser or super heavyweight division'.

Like I said, one champ per division would reduce the numbers of champions by 75%. Not bad! And, from a purely racial perspective, we would still have plenty of white champs. From lightweight to HW: Casamayor or Campbell, Hatton, Mayweather, Phillips (I guess,) Pavlik, Calzaghe, Calzaghe, Haye, and Klitschko. I'm just not a purist about this. 7-8 pounds seems like a big enough jump for one weight to the next. Maybe it could be bumped up to 10.

Like I said before Billy Conn a light heavyweight was on the brink of beating Joe Louis for the real World Heavyweight Championship.

And how would would either fare against Wlad, Vitali, or Lewis?

Demesy did it to Farpo, Jones did it, Evander did it, and Toney almost did it with the aid of banned substances.

Again, Jones and Toney beat a small HW in Ruiz. Dempsey would get destroyed by Wlad/ Vitali/ Lewis. Holyfield did well. That's one.

Lastly, I don't think all cruisers are more entertaining than all Heavyweights. but some are.

And that's all that matters. That, and white fighters doing well.

Edited by: JD074

 

[JD074]

Last point, former heavyweight titlist Chris Bryd who fought at the highest levels as a heavyweight with some success is by passing 'no mans land' cruisers to campaign as a light heavyweight now! There are great fights for him there, Joe Calzadge, Roy Jones, Dawson etc.

Oops! He got knocked out.

 

[whiteathlete33]

There goes nevada again bashing whites fighters.

 

[Charles Martel]

Today we have a couple of excellent young cruiserweights in action:

Alexander Frenkel (14-0, age 23) fighting American Corey Phelps and Marco Huck (20-1, age 23) against Frantisek Kasanic.

Another cruiserweight, Enad Licina (13-1, age 28) will be on the card as well against African-American DeLeon Tinsley. Licina recently defeated another African-American, Kendrick Releford, who gave Tye Fields and Chazz Witherspoon difficult fights.

livestream is at this site:

livestream for Huck, Frenkel and Pianeta

It works best in WinAmp (usually not choppy) or Windows Media Player.Edited by: JD1986