Greatest White Sprinter of All Time

[white lightning]

Ok just for fun I'm posting this poll. It will last for 1 month so you have plenty of time to vote for the greatest white sprinter
of all time. It's not as easy as many would think. Bobby Morrow won gold medals in the 100 & 200 Meters at the 1956 Olympics
and also got a 3rd gold medal in the 4 x 100 Relay. Valeriy Borzov did the same for the Soviet Union in 1972 in the Olympics. Allan Wells was
the gold medal winner in the 1980 Olympics as the Worlds Fastest Man. Lemaitre went sub 10 four times in 2011 and just missed
going 6 times that year. He won medals at the world championships and the olympics. Ramily Guliyev is one of the best 200 meter
sprinters in championship history. Please vote and break down why you chose who you voted for? Thanks for particpating guys!

 

[white lightning]

This was very tough. As much as I love Christophe Lemaitre and what he did for the sport for me it came down to 2 sprinters. They
were Bobby Morrow (US Sprinter) and Valeriy Borzov (Soviet Union Sprinter). Bobby Morrow as I said above won 3 gold medals
at the 1956 Olympic Games in Melbourne. I was close to voting for him but decided on Valeriy Borzov. Why do you ask? First off
Valeriy Borzov won the double olympic gold medal in the 100 & 200 meters at the 1972 Olympic Game in Munich. He also had a medal
in the 4 x 100 Relay in Munich. In addion to this he won 5 Olympic Medals over 2 Olympic Games. He almost went sub 10 and sub
20 back in the days with horrible tracks & shoes compared to modern day technology. My point is that he was so good he was like
Lemaitre back in the late 60's to 70's. Borzov also served on the International Olympic Committee for many years. He gets my vote!

 

[freedom1]

I voted for Borzov based on his peak in 1972. On the biggest stage, he ran a 10.07 on a slow track with 0.0 wind. If it would have been a fast track with 2.0 wind, he would have broken the 10.00 then. I think that year he was unbeatable. In the final, he had no one to push him. He would have defeated Rey Robinson, or Eddie Hart. I almost wonder if someone gave them those two the wrong information just to keep them from being beaten by the super white man.

In terms of just pure ability, it's Lemaitre all the way. Look at what he did with hardly any training or confidence.

 

[jacknyc]

I agree with your comments Freedom1.
Talent - Lemaitre
Performance - Borzov

Morrow matched Borzov's performance with 100m and 200m gold, but Borzov did it more recently, so I give his performances a slight edge.
Allan Wells was very, very close to matching Morrow and Borzov. He definitely belongs in the conversation.
And finally, I would put Pietro Mennea in the conversation, as he was an Olympic Champion at the 200m and also held the WR for 17 years.

 

[white lightning]

I was very tempted to put Kostas Kenteris in this topic as well. Regardless of the accusations you know how many olympic and world championship sprinters have never been busted yet everyone know they were on PED's.. Ben Johnson wasn't the only one doing what so many have done and and the majority of them get away with it. It's sad.. Yeah both Pietro Mennea and Kostas Kenteris should be in this debate!

 

[white lightning]

More on Kostas Kenteris as written by Wikepedia.

Konstantinos "Kostas" Kenteris, also spelled as Konstadinos "Costas" Kederis (Greek: Κωνσταντίνος "Κώστας" Κεντέρης pronounced [konsta'dinos ce'deris]; born July 11 1973) is a Greek former athlete. He won gold medals in the 200 metres at the 2000 Summer Olympics, the 2001 World Championships in Athletics and the 2002 European Championships in Athletics, making him the only European sprinter (along with Linford Christie) to win the gold medal in all three major competitions and the only European World Champion in the 200 metres races. Additionally, he has won two gold, three silver and two bronze medals in the European Cup, as well as three gold medals in the 200 metres at the Athens Grand Prix Tsiklitiria. He is also a 14-time golden medalist at the Greek Athletics Championships and a five-time golden medalist at the Greek Indoor Athletics Championships. He withdrew from the 2004 Summer Olympics, held in his home country, after a doping violation (failed to attend drug test).
Kenteris was named the Greek Male Athlete of the Year three times, for the years 2000, 2001, and 2002. He was named the Best Balkan Athlete of the Year two times, for the years 2000 and 2001.

 

[HaywoodZarathustra]

Borzov was greatly feared by people. Here's a toast to his abilities.

 

[freedom1]

Borzov really had the swagger that year. That's a good thing, but I wish he would not have done that arms raised thing when he crossed the line as I think he would have had slightly faster times. It's relevant in that his time in the 200 at the Olympics was 20.00.

 

[white lightning]

Borzov really had the swagger that year. That's a good thing, but I wish he would not have done that arms raised thing when he crossed the line as I think he would have had slightly faster times. It's relevant in that his time in the 200 at the Olympics was 20.00.

Not only did he raise his arms which slowed him down alot but he also dipped way before the finish line. Two big mistakes. Could have
easily ran 19.95 or so in my honest opinion!

 

[jacknyc]

I was checking the all-time European 200m list.
I did not realize it, but Ramil Guliyev has run sub 20, eight different times!!
Very impressive!
That raises my rating of him.

In contrast, Christophe Lemaitre, who is the same age as Guliyev, only ran sub 20, twice.
Also Guliyev's fastest 200m time is faster than Lemaitre's - Guliyev 19.76; Lemaitre 19.80.
So Guliyev is/was definitely a better 200m sprinter than Lemaitre.

 

[white lightning]

I was checking the all-time European 200m list.
I did not realize it, but Ramil Guliyev has run sub 20, eight different times!!
Very impressive!
That raises my rating of him.

In contrast, Christophe Lemaitre, who is the same age as Guliyev, only ran sub 20, twice.
Also Guliyev's fastest 200m time is faster than Lemaitre's - Guliyev 19.76; Lemaitre 19.80.
So Guliyev is/was definitely a better 200m sprinter than Lemaitre.

Great research jacknyc! To add to that don't forget he changed countries that he ran for so he had to sit out around 2 years I think
it was. Those years would have added to his prime sprinting years which would have most likely gave him more sub 20's!

 

[jacknyc]

Conversely, Lemaitre has seven sub-10 100 meter times (and one 10.00), while Guliyev has only one sub-10 time.

p.s. all Lemaitre's sub-10s (and his 10 flat) came in 2010 and 2011. He was great, but only for 2 seasons.

 

[mastermulti]

Conversely, Lemaitre has seven sub-10 100 meter times (and one 10.00), while Guliyev has only one sub-10 time.

p.s. all Lemaitre's sub-10s (and his 10 flat) came in 2010 and 2011. He was great, but only for 2 seasons.

I agree with Guliyev's greatness. I mean, who in the history of Azerbaijan has ever run without needing to catch something. There's no culture of sprinting for people who have to work their hands to the bone. I'll add to that the wasted years that Guliyev went through after the death of his dad and coach 3 weeks after he entered senior ranks (he was 20 years and 3 weeks when that happened) - he toughed his way through it and arranged a future with Turkey - which then meant he had 2 years of not competing. because Azerbaijan would not release him.
Turkey had to enlist "new Turks" from Jamaica etc to give him opposition. He came back to sprinting without even being able to keep from popping straight up after the start- he had the appearance of an untrained man but with huge natural speed.

I'm going with Guliyev as my favourite sprinter of this group even though he never did get those 100m starts right. His wonderful 200 record taking into account his toughness and will to succeed in an environment not geared to sprinting get him over the line for me. His personal attributes are a huge reason he succeeded in his chosen field.
His top 10 x 200m average is 19.95 seconds. Covid intervened and yet he still achieved a 10.16 even last year 2022 at 32 years old.
He also has longevity none on the list can come close to.

look at this race guys.

 

[booth]

Armin Hary was the first man to run 100 meters in 10 seconds. Nobody can take that away from him.

 

[mastermulti]

Armin Hary was the first man to run 100 meters in 10 seconds. Nobody can take that away from him.

But no-one gives credibility about non-electronic times. He'd probably be a 10.25e guy

 

[Thousand Okie]

It's very difficult to compare sprinters from different eras. Yes, electronic timing adds two tenths to times in the 100. However, the new rubberized asphalt track surfaces are at least two tenths faster in the 100 and probably five tenths faster in the 200. Moreover, sprinters don't run a full turn in the 200 today. I ran the sprints on the old dirt tracks and they varied greatly in quality. Some tracks were known as fast tracks. Most were not. Even the fastest of the fast dirt tracks in perfect conditions are no match for these tracks today. The artificial surfaces today provide spring. It's a very different feel. Armin Hary and Dave Sime would have broken electronically timed 10 flat if they had run on rubberized asphalt.

 

[freedom1]

It's very difficult to compare sprinters from different eras. Yes, electronic timing adds two tenths to times in the 100. However, the new rubberized asphalt track surfaces are at least two tenths faster in the 100 and probably five tenths faster in the 200. Moreover, sprinters don't run a full turn in the 200 today. I ran the sprints on the old dirt tracks and they varied greatly in quality. Some tracks were known as fast tracks. Most were not. Even the fastest of the fast dirt tracks in perfect conditions are no match for these tracks today. The artificial surfaces today provide spring. It's a very different feel. Armin Hary and Dave Sime would have broken electronically timed 10 flat if they had run on rubberized asphalt.

Yes, interesting points. Add in today's weight training and plyometrics programs with modern shoes, who knows what those guys could have run. Also, many of today's best times are chemically enhanced.

 

[jacknyc]

But no-one gives credibility about non-electronic times. He'd probably be a 10.25e guy

"His 10.0 WR has a side twist to it. Hary ran 10.0 HT twice because they annulled the first race from the flying start as seen in the video. His FAT (Fully Automatic Time) from the first race was 10.25 (10.0 HT) and 10.16 (10.0 HT) for the second race. And you wonder why I don’t like hand times?"

 

[booth]

He won a gold medal in the 100 meters and he is the last white man to set the record for the 100 meters.

 

[Carolina Speed]

I'm going to add one and a vote for Christian McCaffrey's grandfather Dave Sime. Sime passed up baseball and football careers to become the world's fastest sprinter, but never won Olympic gold. He was a victim a hard luck and unforgiving track and field rules.
He was a cinch to win the 1956 100 m, but he never got there. He pulled a groin muscle horseback riding the first time on a horse. He eventually tore it thus ending his 1956 Olympic dream.
Sime made it the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome, however, by then he was 24 years old and a Med-School student at Duke. He reached the finals of the 100 meters, but got off to a terrible start, but came back and was the first to cross the line ahead of Hary-with his foot and the rules say it's the torso that counts and Hary's chest out, go there first.
In the 1950's he broke or tied five world records outdoors and four indoors and in 1956 traded head to head victories with Bobby Morrow.
He became a sought after Ophthalmologist in Florida and passed away in 2016.

 

[white lightning]

In the 1950's he broke or tied five world records outdoors and four indoors and in 1956 traded head to head victories with Bobby Morrow.

I copied and pasted this about Dave Sime. I knew he was good but this tells me he was an all time great. I need to research him more. Yes
bad luck hurts so many athletes. Both Sime and Morrow graced this cover of Sports Illustrated. Both of these sprinters are legends!