Cotto v. Mosley

Liverlips

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It is not exactly a caste match up, but I imagine most of us would cheer for the Hispanic (Cotto) over the black (Mosley). But Shane is really a decent guy and has never made any racist comments about whites. But then again, I met many of the PR Cotto fans at the Wlad-Peter fight in A.C. (Cotto was on the undercard) and they were all cheering for Wlad against Peter.

This is a classic match up of speed v. power and youth v. experience. I actually give a slight edge to Shane but since it is in NYC and the fans will be 100% for Cotto, I'd give him an edge if it goes to a decision.

The winner will fight the winner of Hatton-Mayweather in what will certainly be the superfight of 2008.
 

Charles Martel

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Shane Mosley's a polite, well-spoken man in contrast to the arrogant, childlike Mayweather. Miguel Cotto seems like a nice guy too.

This should be a great fight: Cotto's youth, toughness and aggressiveness vs. Mosley's experience, speed and technical skills. It's a pick 'em fight, a close matchup.
 
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I think this will be a good, close fight. If Shane begins to show his age it will be over. It is hard sometimes to predict a fight that is showcasing a fighter that is starting to get on in years a little bit. All that being said I think that Shane will win a close UD.

I will be rooting for Cotto.
 
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Both of these guys are great sportsmen. However, I still wonder how truthful Shane is about "not knowing" he was taking the BALCO roids. I suspect he did know, when he was awarded the decision against De La Hoya in their second fight(many felt Oscar won). That being said, I view this as a pick'em fight. Cotto wins if father time knocks on Shane's door. Shane wins if he still has that speed and the power of a middleweight. It should be a war. I guess it would good if Cotto won. We shall see.
 

Hockaday

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Interesting matchup. I would like to watch it, but these greedy bastards and their PPV. I hope they lose money.

Cotto's crew will be holding their breaths on this one. I think they know he has a soft spot on his chin. In two fights (I forget the oppponants) I've seen him out on his feet , but they didn't have the firepower to finish him. A close fight turned sudden Mosely knockout would not suprise me.
 

Liverlips

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In a slight blow to the caste system, Miguel Cotto wins a very close decision. Mosley shows Cotto can be hurt and backed up. A Hatton-Cotto match will be a war.
 
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I said before, caste system gets no play in boxing. A great fight with two outstanding fighters competing at the highest level. Cotto won by two to three points. Mosely is the exception to the rule. He was the comsument sportsman. He gave praise to Cotto and didn't make excuses or act like a ghetto child. I can't wait for Hatton to destroy or at least beat Mayweather, the utlimate ghetto child.

By the way, Cotto won with superior conditioning and a right jab I never knew he possessed. Hatton can beat Mayweather if he has superior conditioning. Hats off to Cotto who fought an excellent fight and for Mosely for being a great sportsman.
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White Shogun

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Kukulcan said:
I said before, caste system gets no play in boxing.

What do you mean by that?

Taylor and his retinue said the only reason Pavlik got the fight was because he is white.

Toney and others have said no white fighter would ever be heavyweight champion. Now they just say all the best heavyweight fighters are in the NFL or NBA.

White fighters were so absent from boxing for such a long time that every time one showed up, he was labeled 'the Great White Hope.'

Do you really think that the color of the fighters doesn't impact ticket sales? Or people's perceptions of that race's ability to fight? Do you think Hatton v Mayweather doesn't have racial implications?

C'mon, man.
 
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White Shogun, what I mean is that when two men are in the ring, and one clearly wins, like Cotto in this fight, the caste system gets no play. However, morons like Toney are just ignorant and can not accept reality. The drunk white fans and few (jew) telecasters are shills for the suppose it "dominate black affelet". Within the last two years the myth of blk dominance in boxing has being shattered. In boxing, of course promoters are going to hype the racial angle, it sells tickets and PPV. If a white fighter like Pavlik kicks ass of course he is going to become a cash cow. I think normal people are sick and tired of fighters like Mayweather who demonstrate dysfunctional(ghetto) behavior and disrepect for thier oppenents. The caste system is very limited in boxing, its who has the goods and who does not! When more white males realize this and more white coaches stop selling whites short in the NFL, the better the league/play will be. Frankly, I hold the most contempt for the SOB NFL coaches especially if there're white. I can not believe how they f. . . over their own! At least in boxing if you knock out your oppenent or clearly win the caste system gets no play. I hope I clearified myself.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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White Shogun said:
Taylor and his retinue said the only reason Pavlik got the fight was because he is white.

I still have respect for Taylor though. I think he was trying to be funny calling Pavlik the white ghost. He was responding to a journalist's question about why Pavlik has so much hype "b/c he's the white ghost." It seems like he was just mildly trash talking and trying to be funny. Plus when Taylor lost he gave Pavlik credit for fighting a great fight. And Taylor is coming right back to fight a rematch, which if Pavlik wins again will resolve any doubt about his win being "a fluke" to the "black power" ESPN jock sniffers. I respect Taylor's toughness and sportsmanship and think he is good for the sport unlike "lame brain big mouth Mayweather".
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Edited to add: The one area where the caste system exists in boxing is with some of the biased decisions favoring blacks on points. OR with Don King mostly only promoting black fighters! Don King is the reason American boxing is so black!Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 
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Tough J. Riggins. I will concede if the caste system rears its ugly head, it would be with the biased/corrupt decisions that black fighters get. Case in point, on under card of the Cotto/Mosely fight. A black fighter who was once good, Casamayor, got his ass kicked for 12 rounds by a Mexican American. Anyone who saw the fight knows this. Those f...ed up judges should be banned. The public/fans know who won that fight. If I was a top lightwieght contender I would shun Casamayor and not fight him. Send the message that this bull...t will not stand.
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Maple Leaf

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White Shogun, the simplest answer as to why the Caste system does not exists in boxing is:

Their is no INVISIBLE HAND in boxing, unlike the NFL. Whites cannot be excluded from participating, ultimately it is up to the individual to win.
 

jared

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The caste system definitely plays a part when you factor in the media. They largely just pretend boxing doesn't exist unless one of the big name blacks or hispanics is fighting. Title fights with white guys get barely a mention. Nobody in America even knows who Joe Calzaghe or Vlad Klitschko is. The casual US sports fan still assumes blacks are dominating boxing in all the divisions.
 

White Shogun

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Maple Leaf said:
White Shogun, the simplest answer as to why the Caste system does not exists in boxing is:

Their is no INVISIBLE HAND in boxing, unlike the NFL. Whites cannot be excluded from participating, ultimately it is up to the individual to win.

I don't know about an 'invisible hand,' but there are certainly people in charge of deciding who fights who and when. They can prevent fighters from making it big or they can hype fighters beyond their means. It seems pretty evident to me that his occurs all the time, just like jared said about Calzaghe and other white fighters. I mentioned the Calzaghe-Kessler fight to guys at work who although not boxing fans are familiar with the sport's names and history. They had never even heard of Calzghe.

And Kukulcan, I better understand your point and agree with you, once they're in the ring and the white guy wins, there isn't much they can say about it.
 

Colonel_Reb

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Like the hand is really invisible to begin with! I'm glad Cotto won.
 

Jimmy Chitwood

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Maple Leaf said:
White Shogun, the simplest answer as to why the Caste system does not exists in boxing is:

Their is no INVISIBLE HAND in boxing, unlike the NFL. Whites cannot be excluded from participating, ultimately it is up to the individual to win.

did you watch the Jermaine Taylor-Kelly Pavlik fight? there were THREE 'invisible hands' that had already given the win to Taylor had Pavlik not knocked him out.
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they were called the 'judges' and all 3 had Taylor WAY ahead at the time of the knockout, despite how close the fight was and how close the HBO scorers' had it.

there IS bias in boxing. and putting a guy on his back is the only way white men can overcome it.
 

Charles Martel

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Boxing was the first sport with the caste system, since it was largely run by Jews. Many of the judges, ring doctors, promoters, managers, and broadcasters were Jewish. By the sixties and seventies, more and more blacks were working as referees, judges and even promoters (King). White people were largely kept out boxing. The best White boxers were sometimes held back from getting title shots until they were past their prime. When they did get into big fights, they were often robbed by judges (or a hooked-nosed ring doctor would stop the fight prematurely, as in Quarry vs. Frazier).

The media hyped the black fighters, and created the illusion they were naturally better boxers. What's changed recently is that so many good fighters have come from Eastern Europe and Britain, that it's like a tidal wave that can't be held back. The caste media still ignores today's great White fighters like Calzaghe and Klitschko. It pays less and less attention to the sport of boxing, and sometimes negative articles appear about the "state of the heavyweight division". But it cannot stop people like Klitschko, Calzaghe, Ibragimov and others back from winning titles.

American white boxers are still held back by the caste system in boxing, but Kelly Pavlik has the solution for that: KO your opponents, don't let yourself be robbed by the judges!
 
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The media played a large role in the caste system in boxing.

Look at the treatment Gerry Cooney got after losing to Holmes.

Look at the skit on SNL after Bobick lost to Norton where they showed the fight and had a guy pretending to be Bobick saying "every day in America a white man is beaten up by a black man. Please help support job corps and the negro college fund to get blacks out of boxing and into other jobs so we can win".

Look at the movie "the great white hype". This went on for over thirty years.
 
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ToughJ.Riggins said:
I still have respect for Taylor though. I think he was trying to be funny calling Pavlik the white ghost.

Really? And would it have been just as funny if Pavlik made fun of Taylor's stutter and called him s**t skinned ?

And boxing was black long before Don King started promoting.Edited by: Trooper Thorn
 

Maple Leaf

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Gentlemen, you are still missing the point.

Caste Football is a term Don Wassal either coined or borrowed to label systematic discrimination against white athletes in the NFL and U.S. College football. The INVISIBLE HAND is the entire organization both amateur and professional that refuses to allow white athletes to play particular positions or mostly any position to keep white athletes out of the game. Why? That is another story which I have dealt with in great deal in the past.

Boxing is another matter.

White boxers are not and cannot be kept out of the ring to fight. The problem in the past in North America and in Western Europe is simply poor participation by whites in the sport, that is, few participants -not quality. In Eastern Europe the former Soviet Union would not allow fighters to compete professionally for various reasons both political and financial.

White fighters are not kept out of the ring, period. In fact, a promoter would be a fool not to promote white fighters. A promoter's dream is always to have excellent white fighters beat up on excellent black fighters. Those fights pay the most, they DRAW the most. Promoters love white fighters, always have. To illustrate this most clearly look at two black fighters: Mayweather and Roy Jones Jr.. Both fighters have many things in common. Both are, or were, excellent at their craft, both are immature and have bad manners, and both are poor draws -by themselves. When either fighter fought a little known black opponent, fans were not interested either to attend live or buy a ppv. When fans did attend their fights or buy ppv's they did so TO WATCH THEM LOSE. Compare those two fighters to someone like Arturo Gatti and the point becomes more salient. Gatti was a promoter's dream. Gatti filled arenas, earned good television ratings, and sold ppv's heavily. Gatti was not particularily good. Ask yourself the question, and be honest, who would you rather promote Gatti or Jones Jr.? The answer should be obvious, Gatti. Gatti made promoters money. I'll ask you another question, who would you rather promote Andy Lee or Chad Dawson? Obviously Lee is a good draw and Dawson is just a good opponent but not a draw himself.

White working class men like to watch their own kind beat the @##@ out of black men. It sells and when a commodity comes along that is good enough to sell it is sold. No, gentlemen, there is no Caste Boxing.

However, yes, there is corruption and crooked organizations and bought off judges and referees. Let's not forget it is a business.

Unlike the NFL and College football, there is no incentive to keep whites out of boxing, in fact, it is the opposite.
 

PitBull

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Nah, Maple Leaf. Your argument only makes sense if you think that making
money is the driving force behind the entire Caste System. Its not.
Corporations who hire lots of blacks lose a lot of money on them. But they
avoid lawsuits and bad press. See, the press has a lot of power--a LOT of
power. AA lawuits never ruin companies financially. Its the bad press they
want to avoid.
 
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Guest

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Excellent points Mapleleaf. Look at the up coming Jones / Trinadad fight. That fight will sell because Trinadad is a beloved fighter from Puerto Rico. Most will buy the PPV will do so to watch Trinadad beat Jones. However, I believe Jones will destroy Trinadad.

And money is the driving force behind boxing as well as entertaining and dramatic fights, like Pavlik/Taylor and Cotto/Mosely.

There is a another American white who can fight and his name is Andy Lee trained by Emanuel Steward.
 
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It does seem that all the successful white North American fighters are KO artist. After some of the squirlley scoring I have seen in American fights I believe if I were
an American boxer I would move to somewhere in Europe were there would be fewer judgers who would deduct points for my race. Lets face it in the US the white fighter almost has to win by a KO.
 

ToughJ.Riggins

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Trooper Thorn said:
And boxing was black long before Don King started promoting.

True, American boxing has had most of it's biggest stars black since Joe Louis other than Marciano. However, there were lots of great white champs in the depression era, Gene Tunney, Jack Dempsey, Jack Sharkey, James Braddock (who America loved) Max Schmeling (although he was German he moved to the U.S) and his win over Louis in Louis's early career. I was just making the point that Don King seems to have little interest in helping out white fighter's careers; and he is such a big name and corrupt promoter; it is a shame!

And BTW, I don't think Taylor is doing any damage to the white man with "silly" mild racial comments, it actually helps to pump up a fight. And Taylor is certainly not ducking white fighters and seems well mannered, so I have respect for him.

Edited to add: I only get mad at blacks when they systematically work to hold whites back as AA groups and many black football players (who are cynical of white athletic ability) do with their cohesive support for their own. There are fair minded blacks out there in sports; Tiki Barber is a good example of a black who does not doubt that whites can compete at athletic positions in the NFL. We need less Keshawn's and Irvin's in the booth and more smart blacks like Tiki. I don't know maybe I'm biased b/c I'm a Giants fan.
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Edited by: ToughJ.Riggins
 
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