Bute vs Grachev

[Westside]

Lucian has been a favorite fighter of mine for the past 5 or 6 years. When he got beat by Frochy I was kinda of surprised. I thought Bute would box circles around him in the early rounds then drop the hammer in the championship rounds on Carl. I was so wrong. Frochy stepped it up and brutalised Bute in their fight, with the KO.

I don't know much about Grachev, but hoping Bute can right his ship and be dominate with a KO. I'm kinda wondering why Lucian is taking this fight at 175 lbs. Regardless hoping he looks sensational, gets the rematch with Frochy and chips land where they land.

I think Ward will be going to 175 lbs so a meeting of Bute and him maybe in the future, depending on how Lucian looks Saturday. One thing I know if Bute uses his intelligence and skills he rules the 168 lbs division.​

 

[Liverlips]

I'm not a big Bute fan and would rather see Grachev win here. I cheer for Lucian as one of our guys, of course. But I sense he can be a bit soft at times. I am glad he was exposed by a fellow white fighter and not by Ward.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

I'm not a big Bute fan and would rather see Grachev win here. I cheer for Lucian as one of our guys, of course. But I sense he can be a bit soft at times. I am glad he was exposed by a fellow white fighter and not by Ward.

Im a *Huge* Lucian Bute fan, lol. I support all European boxers of course, but my "personal favourites" would be Bute, Sturm, Klitschko Brothers, and probably Art Abraham.

I live in Toronto which is not too far (about a 5 hour drive) from Bute's adopted hometown of Montreal. Many times I travel to Montreal on vacation. Montreal really is a boxing hotbed, not only of Canada, but in global terms.

Also allow me to point out a problem with your comments here:

I am glad he was exposed by a fellow white fighter and not by Ward.

Triangle theories don't work in boxing. Just because fighter A (Bute) loses to fighter B (Froch), who in turn lost to fighter C (Ward), doesn't necessarily prove or mean that fighter A will lose to fighter C.

In fact, what's interesting about Froch and Bute is that they recently had a common opponent leading up to their fight - Glen Johnson, Bute dominated him, Froch beat him in a close fight.

You would think from that observation that Bute would dominate Froch, but it didn't turn out that way did it?

Triangle theories don't work.

Admittedly, I thought Bute would beat Froch by decision or late stoppage, and I was wrong. But I do think there is a chance (10-20%) that Bute wins a rematch, and I do think that Bute has a better style suited for fighting Ward. Unquestionably he's faster and a better boxer than Froch.

So, in my opinion, Bute would still pose a lot of problems for Ward, even now.

As for a white fighter beating Ward, I think Bute or Kessler, not Froch, has the best chance of doing that.

I also think there is a chance Bute comes back and upsets Froch in the rematch. I also hope it happens as I'm a huge Lucian fan, and I'm not a big Carl supporter.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

Bute-Grachev is an interesting fight, Bute is a guy who a few months ago was P4P level, and since his loss needs redemption. Grachev is a tough guy who has a kickboxing background (similar to Vitali Klitschko), came to boxing late and has recently KO'd a few overrated, undefeated Negroes in fights he was supposed to lose.

I'm a big supporter of both men and in a way I'm disappointed that one of them will lose.

Grachev has been matched extremely hard in his career, first against Negroes or half Negroes (Vladine Biosse, Ismayl Sillakh) that were supposed to beat him, but Grachev pulled off 2 or 3 upsets already and made it to this fight. Here he is again being matched in a fight he's expected to lose.

Grachev's management is not building him up correctly. He really needs more experience before a fight of this magnitude. He's been matched very hard early in his career and I don't like that approach. He's given no soft touches and unfortunately I expect him to get knocked out and outclassed by Bute.

Grachev's management has been sending him to the wolves, and I really feel he'd have a better chance in a fight like this if he was further developed, say, had about 5 more fights against B and C level. He's stepping up to A level and I don't think its going to go well for him.

If Lucian is on his game, he really should knock Grachev out.

As it stands, it might be a good idea to get some rounds in and build some confidence ahead of the Froch rematch.

My prediction: Bute W stoppage mid to late rounds. Grachev is a live underdog, but I really think this is too much, I'd give him a generous 10% probability to win.

 

[Charles Martel]

Streams for the fight here:

http://forum.wiziwig.eu/threads/788...d-Fighting-Weekly-Schedule-(1st-Nov-5th-Nov)?

And here:

http://www.vipboxsports.eu/sports/boxing.html

 

[Liverlips]

"As for a white fighter beating Ward, I think Bute or Kessler, not Froch, has the best chance of doing that."

Don't forget that two judges had the fight only 115-113 for Ward and that Froch was coming on the lasst few rounds (and suffered a broken nose early on that hindered his breathing for a lot of the fight).

I am not sold on Kessler. I did not like his fight against Ward and he fights so infrequently now.

 

[Charles Martel]

Video of Bute-Grachev:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNVtmznK_sc

 

[werewolf]

Grachev won that fight. I knew they were going to rob him if he didn't get a KO when I heard the biased announcers and saw that phony tv scorecard that kept giving rounds to Bute that Grachev had clearly won.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

Wow, first of all congrats to both men on a great fight. Really enjoyed watching it!

I was watching the fight socially with friends, and I was not studying/scoring the fight so I won't state my exact score, but the impression I got is that it was a close fight, and that perhaps Bute had pulled it out by winning the last 2 rounds. Many of the rounds from round 4-10 were close, Grachev had his best moments in round 5 and Bute had the best round of the fight in round 12. So, I thought it was a close fight.

Denis Grachev is such a tough guy and made an excellent fight, he managed to hurt Bute in round 5 and for a minute it looked like a repeat of the Froch fight. Bute was taking shots and ran for the last minute of the round.

Lucian Bute had a huge round 12, I thought a definite 10-8 round despite there being no knockdown. I'm still surprised how Grachev managed to stay on his feet, he took an absolute beating in the 12th. It was brutal.

I'm a big fan of both fighters, so part of me is happy to see Lucian win and another part of me is also disappointed to see Grachev lose.

Fortunately, for Grachev there are good losses and bad losses. This is a good loss. Grachev actually raised his stock in this performance and probably secured another payday. Or he could take an alternate route and have 1 or 2 tuneups, use this experience to improve, and perhaps titlechallenge in a few fights. Grachev is one hell of a tough guy and I could possibly see him picking up a title depending on who he fights.

I've seen Bute look a lot better in the past. I'm not sure what's going on with him, personal issues, or he is simply wearing down after a long amateur and pro career. He seems to have lost just a bit of his foot speed and that is causing him to take punches that he never used to take 1 or 2 years ago. I've also seen more leverage on his punches in the past. Where was the body uppercut that he made famous (remember his KO's of Zuniga, Andrade, both came from uppercuts to the solar plexus)? Something has changed in Bute and it's not good. He used to be a better, faster, and more offensive fighter.

All that said, I'm a big fan of both guys! Great fight and I really enjoyed it. As a final point, Bute really hurt Grachev badly in the last round, and had he done that earlier in the fight, he would have definitely knocked Grachev out. I'm wondering why Bute waited so late in the fight to let his hands go? Grachev was hurt very badly and had Bute started that attack 1 or 2 rounds before, he would have won by KO, then there'd be no conversation about scoring.

I hope Grachev uses this loss well, in regard to securing a future payday, titleshot, or improving his game. He's a joy to watch and just such a tough customer! I also hope Bute can simulate his performance in round 12 in future fights.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Wow, first of all congrats to both men on a great fight. Really enjoyed watching it!

I was watching the fight socially with friends, and I was not studying/scoring the fight so I won't state my exact score, but the impression I got is that it was a close fight, and that perhaps Bute had pulled it out by winning the last 2 rounds. Many of the rounds from round 4-10 were close, Grachev had his best moments in round 5 and Bute had the best round of the fight in round 12. So, I thought it was a close fight.

Denis Grachev is such a tough guy and made an excellent fight, he managed to hurt Bute in round 5 and for a minute it looked like a repeat of the Froch fight. Bute was taking shots and ran for the last minute of the round.

Lucian Bute had a huge round 12, I thought a definite 10-8 round despite there being no knockdown. I'm still surprised how Grachev managed to stay on his feet, he took an absolute beating in the 12th. It was brutal.

I'm a big fan of both fighters, so part of me is happy to see Lucian win and another part of me is also disappointed to see Grachev lose.

Fortunately, for Grachev there are good losses and bad losses. This is a good loss. Grachev actually raised his stock in this performance and probably secured another payday. Or he could take an alternate route and have 1 or 2 tuneups, use this experience to improve, and perhaps titlechallenge in a few fights. Grachev is one hell of a tough guy and I could possibly see him picking up a title depending on who he fights.

I've seen Bute look a lot better in the past. I'm not sure what's going on with him, personal issues, or he is simply wearing down after a long amateur and pro career. He seems to have lost just a bit of his foot speed and that is causing him to take punches that he never used to take 1 or 2 years ago. I've also seen more leverage on his punches in the past. Where was the body uppercut that he made famous (remember his KO's of Zuniga, Andrade, both came from uppercuts to the solar plexus)? Something has changed in Bute and it's not good. He used to be a better, faster, and more offensive fighter.

All that said, I'm a big fan of both guys! Great fight and I really enjoyed it. As a final point, Bute really hurt Grachev badly in the last round, and had he done that earlier in the fight, he would have definitely knocked Grachev out. I'm wondering why Bute waited so late in the fight to let his hands go? Grachev was hurt very badly and had Bute started that attack 1 or 2 rounds before, he would have won by KO, then there'd be no conversation about scoring.

I hope Grachev uses this loss well, in regard to securing a future payday, titleshot, or improving his game. He's a joy to watch and just such a tough customer! I also hope Bute can simulate his performance in round 12 in future fights.

I don't believe that's the case at all. I'm a very big supporter of white fighters but in this case I can't find a reason to root for Bute any longer. As much as I hate to say it,Bute hasn't lost anything. He's just has been a very protected and over rated fighter his whole career. Froch blew him out and in a rematch he will do the same. Grachev is a good fighter, but Bute was a superstar and no way a guy like Grachev should have given him a fight like this and possibly won the fight.

You think Bute will even give Ward any competition? You are mistaken. Ward will destroy him at this point. I believe the man to beat Ward at 168 is Kessler. I know he can do it. He needs to prepare a bit better this time around and get a fight with him in Europe where Ward won't get away with his nonsense.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

I can't find a reason to root for Bute any longer.

Fair enough, but I will always root for Bute. I've literally been watching all of his fights and following him as a fan since about 2004 or 2005, that's a long time. Ive watched him develop, become a champion, lose his title to Froch, and now his comeback with Grachev.

I'm a big Bute fan and I always will be, regardless of whether he wins or loses his upcoming fights.

as much as I hate to say it,Bute hasn't lost anything. He's just has been a very protected and over rated fighter his whole career.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But saying that Bute is "protected" is buying into and agreeing with Negro worshipping, HBO, American propaganda.

Bute had solid wins over top5 fighters in his weight class: Sakio Bika (very tough African contender who had a decent effort against all time great Joe Calzaghe), Librado Andrade, and Glen Johnson (actually, I thought Bute beat Johnson better than anyone in over 10 years including Carl Froch). He also had stellar knockouts against "name" opponents like Edison Miranda, JP Mendy and so on.

While his wins are not All Time Great level, please understand he was pruposefully not invited into the Super 6 Tournament. And that said, his wins over Bika, Andrade, Miranda, and Johnson are all very decent names on his resume. You can't ask for more than to beat top5 ranked opponents in his weightclass.

Bute was not and never has been protected. He has always wanted to fight the best and he even LEFT HIS OWN COUNTRY on his own accord (was not obligated or forced to) to fight Froch in England. When has any American ever done that? When will Ward do that? Never.

You think Bute will even give Ward any competition? You are mistaken.

I think the Bute of 2 years ago definitely would have. Bute used to be extremely fast, extremely lethal punching power, just a deadly combination. Note that 2 common opponents, Sakio Bika and Edison Miranda. Bute KO'd Miranda impressively in 3, Ward won a somewhat difficult decision. Bute beat Bika, and to be honest I thought Bika/Ward was close to a draw.

Bute's movement seems to be slowing down a bit and its causing him to get hit with shots he never used to take VS Froch or Grachev.

I'm not saying that Bute is old, or damaged goods. But I have seen him look better 1 or 2 years ago than he does now and I hope he can find a way to recapture that form moving forward.

In any case, I'm a big Bute fan always will be. Glad to see him win last night and of course I wish him the best in his future fights.

I'm also a big fan of Grachev and I'll be supporting him in future fights! Great performance from him last night.

 

[whiteathlete33]

Fair enough, but I will always root for Bute. I've literally been watching all of his fights and following him as a fan since about 2004 or 2005, that's a long time. Ive watched him develop, become a champion, lose his title to Froch, and now his comeback with Grachev.

I'm a big Bute fan and I always will be, regardless of whether he wins or loses his upcoming fights.



You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But saying that Bute is "protected" is buying into and agreeing with Negro worshipping, HBO, American propaganda.

Bute had solid wins over top5 fighters in his weight class: Sakio Bika (very tough African contender who had a decent effort against all time great Joe Calzaghe), Librado Andrade, and Glen Johnson (actually, I thought Bute beat Johnson better than anyone in over 10 years including Carl Froch). He also had stellar knockouts against "name" opponents like Edison Miranda, JP Mendy and so on.

While his wins are not All Time Great level, please understand he was pruposefully not invited into the Super 6 Tournament. And that said, his wins over Bika, Andrade, Miranda, and Johnson are all very decent names on his resume. You can't ask for more than to beat top5 ranked opponents in his weightclass.

Bute was not and never has been protected. He has always wanted to fight the best and he even LEFT HIS OWN COUNTRY on his own accord (was not obligated or forced to) to fight Froch in England. When has any American ever done that? When will Ward do that? Never.



I think the Bute of 2 years ago definitely would have. Bute used to be extremely fast, extremely lethal punching power, just a deadly combination. Note that 2 common opponents, Sakio Bika and Edison Miranda. Bute KO'd Miranda impressively in 3, Ward won a somewhat difficult decision. Bute beat Bika, and to be honest I thought Bika/Ward was close to a draw.

Bute's movement seems to be slowing down a bit and its causing him to get hit with shots he never used to take VS Froch or Grachev.

I'm not saying that Bute is old, or damaged goods. But I have seen him look better 1 or 2 years ago than he does now and I hope he can find a way to recapture that form moving forward.

In any case, I'm a big Bute fan always will be. Glad to see him win last night and of course I wish him the best in his future fights.

I'm also a big fan of Grachev and I'll be supporting him in future fights! Great performance from him last night.

How would Bute fare against the top of the division like Kessler, Ward, Dirrell, and others. I don't see him winning against those guys. You can't be a top fighter and left a guy Like Grachev give you such a hard fight. Grachev isn't the cream of the crop.

Please don't mention Bika, Johnson and Andrada. Bika has always been a joke. Johnson was a shell of his former self when he fought Bute and Andrade had him down.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

How would Bute fare against the top of the division like Kessler, Ward, Dirrell, and others. I don't see him winning against those guys. You can't be a top fighter and left a guy Like Grachev give you such a hard fight. Grachev isn't the cream of the crop.

Please don't mention Bika, Johnson and Andrada. Bika has always been a joke. Johnson was a shell of his former self when he fought Bute and Andrade had him down.

Bika is not a joke. He went 12 rounds, and even managed to win about 3 , with an in his prime Joe Calzaghe, the greatest super middleweight of alltime. Bika also gave Ward probably the hardest fight of his career, many people thought it was a draw.

Bika is far from a joke and Bute beat him in a much better fashion than did either Calzaghe or Ward.

Grachev looked very tough last night. I think he would give a decent fight to anyone at 168, and possibly I could see him winning fights against name guys like George Groves, Robert Stieglitz, James DeGale, Thomas Oosthuizen and so on. They'd all be interesting fights.

I'm not saying Grachev is a world beater, but he's very tough and his aggression and toughness alone will make him competitive in a lot of fights.

Bute does seem to be slowing down, declining, and going through a bad spot in his career. But thats not a reason to stop supporting him. Many fighters go through bad patches in their career and eventually come back even better!

Nothing irritates me more than people saying Bute was protected or overrated. He gets no credit for voluntarily defending his title in the Uk, meanwhile Andre Ward cheats and violates Super 6 rules by refusing to leave USA.

For you to say that Bute is protected shows that you can't separate yourself from Negro worshipping propaganda from HBO and Showtime.

The only protected fighter at 168 is Ward, who refuses to fight outside his comfort zone where he is allowed to hold, headbutt, and cheat. He's had a lot of things given to him.

I would have more respect for Ward if he actually fought someone of note outside the States.

 

[Charles Martel]

Lucian Bute was at his peak from 2007 to 2011, but hasn't looked as fast in his past two fights. And against Johnson, he lacked intensity and I didn't think he was as sharp as usual.

I think the 2007-2011 version of Bute would have an excellent chance of beating Ward, but the current faded version we saw last night will not be successful against any top 5 super middleweight.

Like the above poster, I'll always be a Bute fan. He was one of the ten best white fighters from 2007-2011 and gave us some impressive performances during that time such as the fights with Bika, Berrio, Andrade II and the KO of Miranda.

That's the way it is in sports, the peak of many athletes at the highest level often doesn't last longer than 5 years or so (of course, there some who are at their best for longer).

To possibly replace Bute, we have some very good emerging talents at 168 and 175 like Tommy Oosthuizen and Sergey Kovalev who will likely be at their peak during the next few years.

 

[BoxingSpecialist2]

Lucian Bute was at his peak from 2007 to 2011, but hasn't looked as fast in his past two fights. And against Johnson, he lacked intensity and I didn't think he was as sharp as usual.

I think the 2007-2011 version of Bute would have an excellent chance of beating Ward, but the current faded version we saw last night will not be successful against any top 5 super middleweight.

Like the above poster, I'll always be a Bute fan. He was one of the ten best white fighters from 2007-2011 and gave us some impressive performances during that time such as the fights with Bika, Berrio, Andrade II and the KO of Miranda.

That's the way it is in sports, the peak of many athletes at the highest level often doesn't last longer than 5 years or so (of course, there some who are at their best for longer).

To possibly replace Bute, we have some very good emerging talents at 168 and 175 like Tommy Oosthuizen and Sergey Kovalev who will likely be at their peak during the next few years.

Excellent post, and fully agree with you on all points you make. Especially those I took the liberty of bolding.

 

[werewolf]

I'd put Grachev on a weight training program. He's a slugger but his punches need more power. I'd put some more weight on him and maybe move him up a couple of weight classes. If his punches were stronger I think he he could have knocked out Bute. On the other hand, aside from the final round, Bute looked sluggish and pretty unimpressive.