BJJ on the street

[White Shogun]

What do you guys who've trained in BJJ or grappling arts think of their efficacy on the street? I don't mean in a fight or a challenge match but a genuine violent attack, where you must react in self-defense. Say like in a bar fight gone bad or a mugging or something like that? Would you feel safe trying to use BJJ on a paved street or against a guy who has friends with him?

I have some jiujitsu training (Gracie), and some various stand up styles ranging from TKD to military style combatives. I focused the past few years on lethal strikes as much as possible, avoiding takedowns and rolling on the floor.

I have an opportunity again to resume training in BJJ, and I have to say, old habits die hard. I'm breaking guard and jumping to my feet instead of securing side mount and going for the sub. I've done this on more than one occasion and now find myself wondering if I need to pursue grappling anymore. I enjoy it but I doubt its efficacy in a truly criminally violent situation.

So chime in and give me your thoughts, I've got an open mind and I'm listening.

 

[White_Savage]

Would you feel safe trying to use BJJ on a paved street or against a guy who has friends with him?

Being on your back is always bad, even in a ring fight. But if you happen to end up on your back, you'll be glad you know BJJ.

On the other hand, let me give you a crude sketch of a possible unarmed attacker. Bigger than you, or at least has longer arms, some boxing experience, not too bright. Get the picture? Taking him down might be the best strategic option. And if you take down/throw a guy on the street, how many of them will have the know-how or the will to hold you and prevent you from getting up and beating feet, if nessecary?

And all unarmed martial arts suck compared to even a simple knife.

Multiple opponents, such-like, once again, when we're talking realisic defenses, we're talking weapons. Or going down to the track and training your running-away technique.

 

[White Shogun]

Multiple opponents, such-like, once again, when we're talking realisic defenses, we're talking weapons. Or going down to the track and training your running-away technique.

See, thats the thing, White Savage. Therein lies the rub. I can't very well run away when I'm going for the armbar or rear naked choke.

The last couple years I trained mostly in learning to avoid takedowns, escapes. and getting to my feet in order to a) draw a weapon, b) run away, depending on the situation. We trained multiple attacker scenarios by trying to implement opponent stacking and use of barriers, and striking for the most vulnerable parts of the body, i.e. throat, eyes, and groin. And those were practiced in such a way as to try and avoid grappling as much as possible, to facilitate making your escape or moving to redirect another attack.

Its not that I don't know how to grapple or work on the ground; I'm rudimentarily skilled enough to work the guard and escape the guard, avoid arm bars, defend chokes, etc, but my training has mostly focused on striking vital targets even while grappling, such as groin shots and eye gouges, and then trying to get away.

I can tell that if I continue to take this class its going to take a major change in mind set for me. You know the old saw, you react the way you train? I saw first hand that much of what I have trained is working for me, because I was constantly either fighting to my feet or fighting the urge, lol.

Anyway, its always good to throw ideas around and see what others experiences are in training, and in Real Life (TM).

 

[Spooge]

When the time comes for me to be attacked( if unarmed) I would:
bite a nose off, tear ears off (like zippers when pulled top to bottom)
crush the frontal neck area (palm strike, tiger strike, closed fist,
etc.), plunge my thumbs into the eye sockets (while holding opponents
head with other fingers), grab and pull the testicles(with the entent
of removing them). These techniques require me to be close and
within reach. They are last ditch efforts to remain alive.
The first line of defense is of course to run, if that fails, then work
from a distance while looking for implements (boards, bricks, rocks,
anything to get the advantage). However, if one lives in a state
that allows such things, a gun, knife or combo of the two would be
ideal (I live in Montana, so concealed carry is not a problem) In
todays world confrontations should be viewed as life and death.
Gone are the days of black eyes and bruised egos, people are vicious
and in some cases a single blow to your head can be fatal. Give
no quarter and expect none put your opponent down and keep him
there. Oh and have a nice day : )

 

[GWTJ]

I'll share my experience with you guys. My friend got me into BJJ around 1993 or 1994. I know the first two UFC's had already happened. The manager of a local YMCA was taking lessons and some of the guys from the class would train there a couple of times a week. I started going a lot and was basically fresh meat for them. They did teach me moves though. I got choked out so much my neck and throat hurt for the first 6 months. I decided that I wanted to learn more and started taking classes. My instructor was Craig Kukuk. He now teaches in Idaho. This reminds me, I am going to start a thread about Craig. He is a great American white athlete that needs to be talked about.

Anyway, these classes were very expensive and I spent more time at the YMCA training for free than I did paying for classes. I have 3 children and I didn't have a lot of disposable cash. I finally got good enough, after about 3 years, that I could beat some blue belts. I decided that I knew enough to take care of myself in a confrontation and stopped taking classes.

Several years later, I was almost 40 years old by now, I had a need for BJJ. At my kids ball game an arguement broke out between the president of our league and a fan from another town. This was during the All-Star season and there were lots of teams from different leagues. I would say the hothead that started threatening the president was in his late 20's to early 30's. Our president was in his mid-fifties and a friend of mine.

The hothead was thrown off the complex by the president and was being escorted away by the fathers of the team. He was yelling and cursing the whole time and because the baseball complex had 8 fields quite a crowd had gathered. At least 100 people were watching this play out.

All of a sudden the hothead broke away from his friends and started charging for the president, who by this time had turned around and was talking to other board members. The hothead was about 50 feet away from the president when he started charging. I was off to the side but in between the two of them. I ran directly in the path of the hothead and blocked his path. He tried to push me but I got inside his arms and gave him a Judo type hip throw to bring him down. I made sure that when we landed he hit the ground and I landed on top of him.

I was now on top of him mounted on his side. The most important thing I want to say, and the reason I would recommend BJJ over all other styles, is that at that moment, where I was in the hitting zone and the fight had started, I felt no fear at all. Zero fear. Not even an adrenline rush. It was like another day at the gym. I was totally prepared to deal with this man and felt he had no chance to hurt me at all.

I started to talk to him. I told him to relax and that it was over. I thought he would try to hurt me after he realized he was stuck on the ground but he suddenly started to scream a little like he was in pain. It turned out that he tore his knee up on the fall.

One of the things BJJ teaches you is that in a street fight, when you take the opponent down, make it as brutal as possible. The fight may end before it even starts. That's what happened here. Our fall did happen on cement. I got off of him and he was a different person. He kept apolagizing while some men sat him up in a chair. Now let me tell you what was going through my head during this.

Getting on the inside and establishing good position to bring him down was easy. He was out of control. As the two of us were heading to the ground my thoughts were only on establishing the superior position when we landed. As soon as I had control I resisted the temptation to mount him and apply a move. I was thinking that a lawsuit or criminal charges were a real possibility. I just controlled him without making any agressive moves against him. I'm forever glad that I took that approach because one of the fathers from that other team was a cop. He grabbed me around the waist from behind as I got up and said to me, "Are you crazy, do you want to go to jail?"

So I waited for the police and ambulance to arrive and gave my statement. That is when I actually started to get nervous. Luckily, many witnesses told the police that the hothead was out of control and he got hurt accidentally. I was cleared of any criminal charges but had to wait 2 years before I could relax. The hothead had 2 years to come after me in civil court.

I am very glad that I put in the time to learn BJJ. It allowed me to step in and put a bully(a$$hole) in his place and not be one of the many frozen, scared spectators that day.

I got a lot of respect from a lot of people that day and have never doubted myself since. I have not had any occasion to get physical in a violent way since that day but I worked with a body builder a few years ago and he was telling me how easy it would be for him to kick my butt. He said he would put me in a headlock and crush my skull. I told him that his muscles meant nothing to me and that his headlock wasn't worth a nickel. Just my confident tone shook his confidence. He could tell by my voice that I truly had no fear of him and in about 15 seconds the roles were reversed and he feared me. He knew that confidence like that cannot be bluffed.

I do not want to sound like a braggart here. But BJJ gives you a feeling that no striker can understand. I have met and trained with several of the Gracie's and they will tell you that it is BJJ that is the power. When they beat an opponent they give the credit for the victory to BJJ, not to themselves. That is my purpose here, to thank BJJ for my confidence.

One last note, in the first couple of UFC events, it was only Royce Gracie that looked like a martial artist. Nobody else had incorporated BJJ into their training yet. It really was a fair assessment of the different martial arts. Only Royce did what a martial artist is supposed to do. That is, beat your opponent easily and without sustaining injury to yourself while applying your art. The strikers seemed to lose their focus and became brawlers with the first punch. BJJ must be the premier martial art in the world because no fighter today would enter a tournament without it.

 

[dkr77]

I would say BJJ,wrestling and judo complimented with decent striking
skills. In my line of work I frequently have altercations with some of
the most unsavory people you could ever meet and believe me when you
break your hand while punching some homoerectus in the head it is a
sickening feeling and takes some of the will to fight out of you. On
the other hand if you can clinch with him, give him a couple of knees
or elbows and then send him crashing to the pavement with a uchi gari
or suplex most likely he's done. If he's not, gain side control and
finish him off with knees or elbows. You walk away in good health and
he's a bloody mess with the wind knocked out of him. P.S. GWT J,
I own a complete disk set by Craig Kukok and it is great material!

 

[Spooge]

Fu.k knees and elbows. Most of that s hit is fantasy. Get
in a real street fight and you should be ripping tearing and pulling
anything that comes in contact with your hands. When standing,
grab boards, bricks, stones, screw drivers, pencils etc, to plung into
opponent's eyes. When and if that fails, use your fingers to
stick into the viscus mucus that makes up his corneas. If that
fails, bite his nose off, or tear his ears off. You dumb asses
that think life is a dojo! It is not. These guys that play
on the street do not dance with you they don't know the moves you have
practiced, but they do now survival and as Mike Tyson said will " Eat
your young" if need be.

 

[White Shogun]

You dumb asses that think life is a dojo!

You lost all credibility with that remark. You could have made your "anything goes" in the streets remark without that bullsh*t.

Now, we could get into this whole "oh YEAH, well how many fights have YOU been in?" nonsense, but I'm not going to bother.

You obviously have no knowledge of grappling, and anybody who says you can't f**k up somebody with knees and elbows has never been hit with one or used one in a *real* fight.

Are you saying that it is actually unnecessary to train in self-defense, because biting his nose off and tearing his ears off come naturally and will work 100% of the time? What makes you think tearing a guy's ear off is gonna keep him from kicking your ass? Knocking someone out and breaking sh*t in his body is the most effective method of ending an attack, and even then people will still fight you with broken arms and fists. People survive knife attacks and go on to kill or maim their attacks, are you certain that a f***ing pencil is gonna do the trick for you?

Nothing is foolproof "Renaissance Man" not even your grab-anything-at-hand technique.

 

[dkr77]

Renaissance man, Not all fights are to the death. I have no desire to blind someone who has had too much to drink and is getting mouthy. As far astaking advice from Mike Tyson, I think I'll pass. And you are right life is not a do jo. But a do jo is the most practical place to learn about real fighting. Lastly, don't refer to me as a dumbass that's a response I would expect from a ni##er. This is a chatroom and people post their personal opinions. If you don't like my opinion then don't read my posts.

 

[KG2422]

In the fights I've been in there has been very little opportunity to bite noses off or tear ears off. If you can do those things, you've probably already won the fight because their not fighting back. I've noticed hooks to the temple to be effective. After you knock them down, kick them in the face when they try to get up. Head butts work sometimes on those taller than you if you can catch them around the nose and chin while grabbing the back of their head. I've missed on that before too though. It's kinda risky. I've fought multiple attackers before. I didn't win either time ,but I survived and avoided major injury. If you have to fight more than one, keep stiking wherever you get hit from. If it gets too bad, pull one of them on top of you. Make sure you keep your hands high to lessen the kicks to the sides of your head. It's not a good idea to take on multiple attackers. I took on six one time, knocked out two and got beat after that. I had a bad case of overconfidence. Another time, I was fighting two who I didn't think were very tough. I had them bloodied up pretty good until one got behind me and pulled my shirt up over my head. Avoid that. Pretty basic stuff. Not as advanced as any specific fighting discipline ,but I thought it might be useful for someone reading the thread.